Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN SCRUTINY díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 26 May 2009

Report on EU Developments: Discussion with Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

On behalf of the joint committee, I welcome the following: Ms Geraldine Tallon, Secretary General of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government; Ms Rona Ní Fhlanghaile, principal officer in the EU and international unit; Ms Lorraine O'Donoghue, assistant principal officer in environment policy unit; Mr. Pat Macken, principal officer in national climate change division; and Ms Catherine Bannon, assistant principal officer in international climate change division.

I draw witnesses' attention to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Ms Geraldine Tallon

I thank the Chairman and committee members for inviting us to discuss the report of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to the committee for the period July to December 2008. We welcome the committee's interest in the work of the Department as it relates to the European Union. We also welcome opportunities to engage with the Joint Committees on Climate Change and Energy Security and the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when proposals are referred to them for further scrutiny.

The overarching EU policy for the environment is set out in the Sixth Environment Action Programme. The priorities of each Presidency fit into that programme, which covers the ten year period until July 2012. The programme identified key environmental priorities to be met in the areas of climate change; nature and biodiversity; environment, health and quality of life; and natural resources and waste. As environmental policy must interact with other sectors, a combination of instruments is used to progress initiatives in these areas. These include thematic strategies and Council conclusions as well as legislative instruments. Thematic strategies and Council conclusions particularly influence other sectors, promote coherence among a range of EU policies and identify and establish necessary links.

Having outlined the overall context of EU actions for the environment, I will now give a brief overview of the past, present and future Presidencies. France had the Presidency for the second half of 2008. It is fair to say that the French realised their environmental ambitions for their Presidency. The period was dominated by efforts to reach agreement on the climate-energy legislative package. Intensive negotiations resulted in the package being agreed on 12 December by Heads of State and Government at the last European Council meeting of the year and by the European Parliament on 17 December.

The Czech Republic, the current holder of the Presidency, is the second of the new Eastern European member states to have the Presidency since their accession in 2004. The Czech Presidency identified climate change, the protection of human health and the environment, sustainable consumption and the protection of biodiversity as environmental priorities. A number of legislative proposals have been agreed, including regulations on ozone and trade in seal products and revised eco-label and environmental management regulations. A decision adopted on whaling established EU positions with regard to proposals for amendments to the International Convention on the Regulation of Whaling. These proposals will be considered at next month's meeting of the International Commission on Whaling. EU positions are positive in regard to the conservation of whales.

Other legislative proposals on which discussions are ongoing in Brussels include directives on industrial emissions and soil. A regulation on construction products is being discussed by the Competitiveness Council working group. That regulation would replace the construction products directive. The aim of the proposal is to clarify and reduce the administrative burden, particularly for small and medium sized enterprises.

Sweden will take up the baton from 1 July this year. In the environment area, Sweden's priorities have been identified as climate change, the eco-efficient economy, biodiversity, and the marine environment. Sweden will lead the EU delegation at the Copenhagen climate conference, which takes place in December 2009. This conference is the final stage in a process of international negotiations to find a successor to the Kyoto Protocol. Sweden is, therefore, already heavily involved in the formulation of a co-ordinated EU position as well as in preparatory talks at international level. Sweden will host discussions on the eco-efficient economy at a number of meetings during their Presidency including at informal Energy-Environment Councils in July and an informal Competitiveness Council in October. These meetings will focus on measures aimed at making the economy of the EU more environmentally sustainable

The Swedish Presidency will begin EU preparations for participation in the 10th Conference of the Parties to the UN Convention on Biological Diversity, due to be held in Japan in October 2010. It will also assess the financial cost of preventing biodiversity loss, as outlined in the economics of ecosystems and biodiversity report. Sweden also aims to establish an international forum for knowledge in the area of biodiversity along the lines of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

The Swedish Presidency aims to have an EU strategy for the Baltic Sea region presented by the European Commission in June 2009 with the target of adopting Council conclusions at the December Environment Council. Sweden hopes this strategy can become a pilot project under the marine strategy directive and set an example for other regional seas in the EU.

From this outline of the three Presidencies, the dominance of climate change on the agenda is quite clear. This has been the situation on the environment agenda for some time now and it will remain like that for the rest of this year. The EU climate and energy package, agreed in December 2008, set a target of reducing greenhouse gas emissions across the Community by 20% compared to 1990 levels. This was a unilateral EU initiative to underpin the commitment of the EU to combating climate change. It also underpins the EU's acknowledged leadership in wider international negotiations under the UNFCCC.

Since the package was agreed in December 2008, the focus for the Commission and member states on that chapter of EU climate change policy is very much on implementing the various elements of the package. In the case of my Department, the priorities are the implementation of the revisions to the emissions trading directive, the effort sharing decision on emissions from the non-emissions trading system sectors of the economy and the new regulation on CO2 emissions from cars. Work in these areas is under way. Notwithstanding the fact that the process for implementing EU policy on climate change will change significantly after 2012, particularly given the fact that the Commission will administer the EU emissions trading system, the fundamentals of Irish policy remain unchanged. The primary focus continues to be on measures to reduce domestic emissions, supported, as necessary, by the use of the approved flexible mechanisms.

The December 2008 package does not end the EU's ambition on greenhouse gas emission reductions in the period to 2020; the situation is quite the contrary. A 20% target for the EU or for the European Union and all other developed countries would not achieve the level of greenhouse gas emission reductions, which the most recent scientific advice indicates to be required. The critical priority for the EU is an ambitious international treaty to succeed the Kyoto Protocol for the period 2013 to 2020, and the EU is committed to raising its ambition to move to a 30% greenhouse gas emission reduction target for 2020 compared to 1990 levels in the context of a comprehensive international agreement. Ireland fully supports this objective which is in line with the scientific advice from the intergovernmental panel on climate change.

On the international side, at the 14th session of the conference of the parties to the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, in Poznan, Poland last December agreement was reached on a solid programme of work for 2009. The first meeting of 2009 in the UN framework convention process was held in Bonn in April. The second is scheduled for the first two weeks of June and discussions will continue throughout 2009 culminating in Copenhagen in December next. Ireland fully supports the EU's position in the international negotiations and we consider it crucial that the international community reaches a global, comprehensive and ambitious climate change agreement in Copenhagen.

Two other policy areas that featured in our report for July to December 2008, are GMOs and sustainable consumption and production. GMO policy was an important area for discussion at EU level during the French Presidency. That discussion, at both official and ministerial level, was held in several fora, and culminated in the adoption of conclusions by the Environment Council in December. The thrust of the discussions and the conclusions was towards improving the existing regulatory process, which is acknowledged as being the most strict in the world. It was agreed that there is a need to further strengthen environmental assessment and monitoring arrangements for GMOs, to make better use of scientific expertise in the assessment process and to protect sensitive areas. The Czech Presidency has not engaged further in this debate but GMOs were on the agenda for the March Environment Council. At that meeting a majority of member states voted against Commission proposals to lift bans on the cultivation of certain GMO crops in Austria and Hungary. There are no indications that Sweden will prioritise debate or change in GMO legislation during the second half of this year.

I mentioned Sweden's plans to engage in discussion and debate on the eco-efficient economy. This will present the opportunity for further development of EU policy on sustainable consumption and production which is a key and overarching objective of sustainable development. During 2008 the Commission adopted a sustainable consumption and production and sustainable industrial policy plan. This plan was discussed by Ministers at the December Environment Council. It was also considered in the Competitiveness and Energy Councils indicating what a cross-governmental and cross-sectoral policy this is. The action plan contains measures to stimulate the production and use of more environmentally-friendly products and services which require fewer resources to produce and use less energy in operation. There are a number of legislative initiatives in the action plan. Those on energy and product design are the responsibility of other Departments. My Department leads on the eco-label regulation and the eco-management and audit scheme regulation, both of which have been agreed under the Presidency of the Czech Republic. The focus internationally and nationally on a green new deal and the green economy provides a useful opportunity to progress our work in the important policy area of sustainable consumption and production with a view to achieving environmental and economic objectives.

I thank the Chairman for his attention. We will be glad to further explore any matter of interest to the committee and to answer any questions arising.

I thank Ms Tallon for a very comprehensive report and I congratulate her on the many areas covered in it. My initial question relates to the proposal to reduce the administrative burden, particularly on small businesses. How will the efforts to reduce the administrative burden on small businesses have effect? In what ways will they make things easier for small companies? Will they apply to manufacturing companies, retail or the service sector?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

They will apply to all companies in the SME sector, whether they are in retail or manufacturing. There is a very strong emphasis at national policy level on taking measures to lighten the regulatory burden for SMEs. We want less emphasis on the letter of the law and more on the spirit of regulation to bring about more environmentally responsible performance. Compliance with an environmental standard can give a business the freedom to operate without explicit obligation under specific areas of legislation. Many companies subscribe to the EMAS or ISO 14001 environmental standard, which guarantees performance across the board and is taken as confirmation of compliance with good environmental management practices.

Difficulties are being encountered by all companies in the manufacturing sector but small companies which employ fewer than ten people are having particular trouble. They may not conform to ISO 14001 but follow the regulations. People talk about the smart economy and claim there is less regulation but it is hard to know what they mean. Does this refer to public health inspections, for example?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

One example of the new approach relates to compliance with waste legislation. If a business is a member of Repak it can achieve compliance for waste recycling without having to comply at the individual unit level, as is a requirement for industry.

How does this eco-friendly information get out to businesses and small companies? Is the message getting across to people that we are interpreting regulation differently and making things easier for them while continuing to reach very high standards? Is a user-friendly document sent out to companies explaining that the Department has a new mind set and wants to help?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

The Department has a range of channels for providing information for the public and specific sectors. We have had an environmental information service, ENFO, for many years which provides literature to the various business sectors and the general public. We provide information through the Environmental Protection Agency, both in terms of state of the environment reporting and sector specific reporting. We fund partnership projects with environmental organisations to help business achieve better environmental performance. We have a cross-stakeholder organisation, Comhar, the national sustainable development council, which has representation from industry, business, agriculture and all other sectors.

I know Ms Tallon is doing a fantastic job. However, all small companies state they are burdened with legislation and regulations from the European Union. Can we look forward to a change of climate for enterprise and making it easier to do business? Every small business person complains about the amount of EU legislation, all of which exerts pressure and costs money. I welcome what Ms Tallon says but owners of small companies see things differently. That is my understanding.

Ms Geraldine Tallon

Environmental matters tend to be highly regulated. There are at least 200 pieces of environmental legislation at EU level. However, we strive as far as possible to reduce the burden to key messages. Much of the focus of environmental policy and legislation is on climate change and climate policy with regard to compliance with the Kyoto Protocol but also with more stringent standards in the post-Kyoto Protocol period.

Ms Tallon said the new construction products regulation would replace the construction products directive and that its aim was to clarify and reduce the administrative burden, particularly for small and medium-sized enterprises. If that is the aim of the new regulation, how is it apparent to a small company?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

That is one specific piece of legislation within the overall sustainable consumption——

How can the new regulation "clarify and reduce the administrative burden"?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

We have provided a note for the committee on the directive. For example, it will simplify the route of application for the CE qualification marking for individual products and products which do not have safety concerns. There is a whole protocol associated with the processing of applications for the CE marking. This regulation is designed to simplify and remove the complications from the application process. In that way, it aims to ease the regulatory burden associated with the CE qualification for firms in the small and medium-sized sector.

With regard to communicating the extensive programme of climate policy and legislation, we have a high profile and an extensive awareness and education campaign called change.ie. There is an extensive outreach to business, industry and other sectors in which climate policy applies.

Small companies are the hub of the economy. If we are to create a stimulus in the economy, we must encourage small companies. There is very little encouragement for acorns to grow into oak trees. The directive on the CE mark is a very small gesture towards the reduction of regulation.

Let us consider the HACCP systems and the scrutiny report on the operation of country markets which are made up of small companies which make homemade jam and apple tarts and so on. There is still a significant burden of regulation in that sector. There are visits by public health officials, a practice with which I agree, but at issue is making business easier, of which we must come out very clearly in favour. On reading this statement one could assume, except for the regulation, that minimal change is involved and that it relates to ingredient content more than anything else. I am not of the view that this will help to reduce the difficulties of small companies. There is very little change to the administrative burden when it comes to labelling for a practitioner at the coalface.

Ms Geraldine Tallon

This is one detail within a broader programme of policy and action.

Does Ms Tallon not agree that it is a broad statement with little meaning? Dáil Deputies receive these broad statements but on analysis there is nothing in them. There is little in the interpretation of the statement for people who buy the T-shirt, make the investment and set up a small company.

Ms Geraldine Tallon

With respect, it is just one detail of a broader policy approach on sustainable consumption and production which covers a whole range of issues in terms of the way in which a company may operate.

People hear all these very fashionable words that sound brilliant, but when they try to interpret them, they are driven through the loop when setting up a small company. There are many grandiose mission statements, but there is an issue with their interpretation. We are discussing businesses and regulation and action speaks louder than words. We must establish exactly what is meant. There should be a clear statement to small companies of what is planned and to clarify how we intend to make regulation simpler for small companies.

Ms Geraldine Tallon

We tend to work very closely with industry and its stakeholders in the development of proposals and their negotiation at EU level. This legislative instrument will be a regulation when it is finally negotiated and within the broader EU policy on sustainable consumption and production. It will not be a directive and there will not be specific implementation measures required at individual member state level. I agree with the Chairman on the way in which regulation and environmental standards bear on industry. We must consider a range of issues in terms of water and energy use and the implementation of waste policy.

Has the Secretary General ever considered the publication of a small user-friendly guide on the regulations and their interpretation which would help to keep matters simple?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

There is a good deal of such information available through ENFO.

I welcome Ms Tallon and the other members of the delegation. I refer to the remarks of the Chairman. The bottom line is the cost of compliance and the ability of a company to reach that compliance level. I was very pleased to hear the delegation refer to the spirit as opposed to the letter of the law. Flexibility is required, especially in the current climate. Smaller companies, that is, companies with between four and ten employees, find it especially overburdening and, in many cases, cannot afford to comply with the level of regulation required. Will the delegation comment on this point?

I refer to GMOs, genetically modified organisms, in food. Some time ago the committee produced a report on the matter. Is this a battle we will end up losing? Prices are being driven down consistently, especially in the agriculture sector for milk, beef and lamb products. Are we caught, in the sense that feed coming in contains GM products? Will there be more pressure on the agriculture sector to import more? Is it a lost battle? Will we just import the goods and will the EU consistently prevent member states from producing the goods? Will this come back to bite us by reducing the amount of food produced within the European Union? We are now being forced to import feed which contains GM ingredients from the likes of the US. I ask for a comment on genetically modified foods because I wonder whether we are losing that battle.

With regard to regulations, we deal with constituents on SACs, SPAs, waste water directives, the nitrates directive for the farming sector, the delivering of mains drainage schemes and so on. People are not being allowed build in their own villages because of the lack of mains drainage and there is the difficulty for young couples who may spend €10,000 but the Eastern Fisheries Board puts in an objection and goes to An Bord Pleanála and they lose because of guidelines already in place. Another area where there is a hullabaloo is about flood plains when all one has to do is go into any local town to get the relevant information on flood plains. I had property at the side of the river in New Ross and I could recite the tides book for three months ahead because one had to know the tides. That area will always flood, no matter what measures are taken. It is no surprise when planning permission is given in particular areas that they ended up being flooded. Everybody around would know the flood plains.

I sometimes wonder about the impact of all of these directives and compliance requirements and the over-regulation. There is a perception that we are heavy-handed and we are not like the European Union because there seems to be much more flexibility across Europe in general compared to Ireland. This is the public perception. The director general referred to the seals and the Inuit people. Nobody wants seals to be killed but it is the Inuit tradition. In New Ross one cannot fish for eels or salmon or cockles or mussels. The livelihood of people in the coastal areas is being affected by directives for which they blame Europe and they also blame the Government for allowing the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, to over-regulate.

A good friend of mine runs a DIY store in Wexford. He told me that three people recently called into his shop to check on how he disposes of batteries and there is a major bring centre next door to his shop. When asked he replied that it was his practice to throw the batteries over the wall. They got very excited at this reply. They did not realise that the bring centre was behind the wall. I wonder about the value of sending people to visit a store to find out how he disposes of his batteries.

I refer to how Europe is perceived. Does the Department acknowledge that the decisions taken at European level have a significant and real effect on the people on the ground?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

The Deputy raised several issues. On the question about small business, the Department and the Government are extremely conscious of the difficult circumstances that apply from a business point of view in the current economic climate. We would have much concern that environmental regulation should be seen to be proportionate to the issues the regulation is designed to address. There is often a fear that European environmental legislation is targeted towards very large member states who are heavily industrialised and have a post-industrialisation legacy to deal with at this stage. Ireland traditionally has not had a heavy industrial background. Our industrial development from the 1960s onwards has tended to be in very clean sectors.

Very often, the kind of regulation coming forward from Brussels can seem to be something of overkill in particular Irish circumstances. We generally argue the case quite strongly with regard to the overall cleanness and good quality of the Irish environment and the scale of activity for the majority of Irish businesses. In general, one finds in EU legislation that there are exemptions and lighter forms of regulation that apply to small level operations, such as ones like those mentioned employing from four to ten people. Many of the waste directives and packaging waste directives include exemptions for operations on a small scale.

We generally have to try to balance the value of having good, tight regulation with a perspective on the quality of the environment. Ireland has a very good environment and we want to protect it because that environment is a guarantee for tourism and food production. It is part of what makes the country attractive. While we do not want to have unduly heavy and onerous regulation that is disproportionate to the environmental problems we have, we do not, on the other hand, want to be seen as a member state that consistently drags its heels in terms of a willingness to engage with a progressive environmental policy. We want to be seen to be capable of delivering on environmental policy.

I strongly believe that good environmental performance ultimately saves money. Good environmental performance is designed to use fewer natural resources, less energy and to produce less waste. By definition, all of these features — which may be costly in the capital phase of provision — are designed to save. They save on the environment on resources and they save money in terms of sectoral operation. It would be difficult to say that environment is solely a cost. It is also a benefit and should be seen as that. In doing the equation, we need to take a good robust approach to the cost-benefit, rather than just to the cost side of the equation. That is not to say that we do not put as much emphasis as we can on minimising and containing costs where possible.

Traditionally, Ireland has taken a very precautionary approach in the area of GM production and activity. Government policy on GMOs, as set out in the programme, states that the Government will seek to negotiate an all-island GM-free zone. That policy goal relates particularly to cultivation of GM products within Ireland. As was said, rightly, there has been significant development in this area in the past 15 to 20 years and many products containing GMOs are now available on the global market. The movement of goods is very much controlled and ordered by the World Trade Organisation, as well as by instruments at EU level. The European Union is seen as having the most stringent GM legislation in the world and it applies it quite rigorously. However, it must apply it within the wider framework of WTO trade policy and control.

I welcome the delegation. A number of years ago the Department came up with regional waste management plans. They now seem to be on hold, as they certainly are not in operation. As Deputy Connick stated, in waste management everything depends on the cost of compliance. It is a huge burden not only for small businesses but also for larger ones.

The delegates have mentioned that compliance requires our environmental practice to reach targets set as far as 2020. We have the same target levels as other EU member states, but, from the viewpoint of transport, the fact that we are an island nation means we do not have the same access as mainland member states to markets by rail or road. This will surely place a bigger burden on us and the targets set will place a bigger burden on manufacturing companies in this country. It stands to reason, therefore, that we will have higher costs. The targets set for 2020 will place greater costs on us because we are more disadvantaged in not having the same access to the main market as mainland European countries. I can see problems in our being able to compete in the marketplace. We are disadvantaged, yet we must reach the same targets as other member states. Do the delegates see this as a problem for business? I certainly see it that way. As Deputy Connick said, it comes down to the cost of compliance. He outlined how three business people had to leave a retail unit in his area. I can see this having enormous implications for whatever manufacturing companies are left in the country. It will impose a considerable cost.

Ms Geraldine Tallon

I will ask my colleague, Mr. Macken, to speak on some of the waste issues raised by the Senator who also raised the potential burden of compliance with the targets set for 2020. I do not underestimate the reality that the post-Kyoto Protocol target adopted by the European Union is very ambitious. As I said, the Union is prepared to move its ambitions a stage further, given the priority that attaches to real action to address climate change.

A very detailed, effort-sharing negotiation has been undertaken as part of the package of measures to implement the European Union's climate policy in respect of the 20% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2020. That effort-sharing exercise was designed to spread the burden on an equivalent basis across member states. Although I accept this will be very ambitious from an Irish point of view, we must take the view that the burden is being shared across member states. In the course of negotiating the package we have taken every possible opportunity to build flexibilities into the measures involved to enable Ireland to reduce as far as possible the cost of reaching our targets. The flexibilities involve an agreement that member states may trade their effort-sharing allocations in order that if one can achieve things more efficiently in particular circumstances, there can be a trade-off. We have achieved flexibilities around interim annual targets which allow, for example, a figure of 5% to be borrowed from the allocation for a following year to ease a burden in a given year. We have secured additional agreement on the inclusion of the carbon sink effect of forestry activities. A detailed exercise has been undertaken to ensure as far as possible that we can achieve a balance as regards the priority EU Heads of State attach to climate policy and leadership, including a fair distribution of the burden across the 27 member states and, within this, the capacity and flexibility to meet our share of the burden as cost efficiently as possible.

A number of issues have been raised concerning waste management, some of which are national issues, while others are EU matters. I will ask my colleague Mr. Macken to comment on a number of them.

Mr. Pat Macken

We would agree to having cost-efficient solutions. This has always been uppermost in our minds both in negotiating the waste directives at EU level and later in transposing and implementing them. For example, we succeeded in obtaining derogations on a number of directives in order that we were able to postpone the dates of compliance in reaching the targets set. That happened with the packaging directive, the waste electrical appliance directive and the landfill directions as regards bio-waste targets. We succeeded in negotiating these derogations because this country is different from countries in the rest of Europe. We have a dispersed population and do not have the low-cost options and economies of scale available in more densely populated countries on the Continent. These have been priorities for us.

As regards recycling generally, we have come a long way from being off the pace initially to being able to deliver on the recycling targets sets. We are at least one year ahead of schedule and have reached a figure more than double the target set by the European Union under the waste electrical appliance directive. We have already reached the target set for 2011 in the packaging directive. Therefore, we are achieving progress and working closely with industry in putting schemes in place. It is a good example of how social partnership works in delivering least-cost solutions. We work closely with our partners because we know that industry has a lot of know-how in terms of efficiencies and transport logistics which we used effectively with regard to the waste electrical appliance directive. We have a system that is on a par with anything else in place across the European Union. It is modelled on working with industries. Those not in compliance — defaulters or so-called free riders — do not enjoy a competitive advantage over those who are compliant. Very often the pressure for enforcement comes from the industry. As the Secretary General mentioned, very small producers are sometimes exempt. For example, if one is below a certain tonnage of packaging waste, one is not obligated. I agree that there are challenging targets set in the new waste framework directive. In addition, the waste electrical appliance directive is being renegotiated. We have made a lot of progress and, while there is still some way to go, we will continue to pursue a policy of least-cost solutions to ensure we achieve environmental objectives in an effective way.

My final question relates to the polluter pays directives and water and sewerage scheme charges. These are a new revenue raising device for local authorities and it is the business community which pays. Local authorities use water and sewerage scheme charges for collecting extra revenue which is far in excess of the cost of supplying water. We have a lot of pharmaceutical businesses in this country, many of which use a lot of water and require access to a good water supply. This will impose a large cost on them. I do not know if the Department has any control, as it is local authorities which set the rates charged. Under the new public private partnerships, the element to be paid by the business community is substantial and puts a huge burden on business. The Department should be conscious of this and should do something about it.

Ms Geraldine Tallon

This is a broad policy area. The policy of charging for water comes from the implementation of the water framework directive, under which there is an obligation on member states to charge the real cost of providing water services. It is not intended to be a revenue-raising exercise by local authorities but to reflect the actual cost of providing water services and drive efficiencies in the use of these resources. There has been extensive capital investment in water services infrastructure in the past ten years on the part of the State. It is important that this asset is well managed and maintained. Domestic users are specifically excluded from the provision.

Ms Tallon said Ireland was GM-free and had voted against the use of GM food at European meetings. What is the Department's view on that policy, given the fact that so much GM feed comes into the country via the agriculture sector? Is there not a contradiction in that regard?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

The GM free policy position which Ireland holds relates to cultivation, but we accept that where GM products are on the market, we have to be bound by a strict EU policy on world trade.

Is the GM-free Ireland policy being pursued now?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

Yes. That is the stated policy in the programme for Government.

Can it be achieved?

That is the point.

I know it is grand in theory, but can we prevent GM cultivation?

On the reuse and recycle policy, some trade suppliers are charging people to remove glass because the market for recycling glass has fallen. Has the market fallen completely for cardboard packaging and glass? Has the fact the economy has gone through the floor caused a problem with regard to getting people to participate in the recycling business?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

This is a wider issue of waste policy than——

It is related to climate change and energy? The green economy and recycling generally relate to sustainable consumption of products, do they not? Does the fact that people are now being charged significant sums to get rid of glass not discourage them from paying for its removal?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

People can still recycle glass and a range of products free of charge through bring banks and so on.

That is domestic customers, but I am talking about the commercial end.

Ms Geraldine Tallon

We must recognise that the severe economic downturn had an impact on international markets for recycling in the past year or so. This has been of concern to us and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. The Minister raised the matter at the Environment Council meetings and discussed with the French Presidency during its term and with member states measures to improve, promote and stabilise international markets for recycling. I understand the international markets for recycling have now recovered somewhat. In more recent times, we have been working closely with Northern Ireland on the area of market development for recycling within a national context. Several initiatives are being developed on a North-South basis to promote and improve market development for recycling purposes.

The key areas Ms Tallon has discussed with us are the climate energy legislative package, sustainable consumption and production and a sustainable industrial policy and the Copenhagen conference on climate change. Senator Burke raised a point with regard to the reduction in funds and asked whether we are paying the price now due to the current financial crisis. Every local authority is now getting considerably less money and the result of this can be seen when it comes to prioritising different services by local authorities and in light of the massive curtailment of industry by the Department with regard to EU waste. Will this have an impact on many of the objectives? Will it impact on the progress being made on the action plan for sustainable consumption and the policy and resources implications for our end? Obviously when we look at the funding from the position where we have a €60 billion economy but only €32 billion coming in, will the Department have to prioritise what it can do with regard to the policy and resource implications for Ireland?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

Budgets generally are under strain in the current climate, but that drives a sharp focus on prioritisation. For example, within the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, the Minister and the Minister for Finance have maintained the level of funding for water services investment, which is a critical priority in economic development terms and for environmental protection purposes.

Is it not within the remit of county managers, once they get their parcel of funding, to redistribute funds according to their own priorities, within a sort of departmental caveat on the framework for funding for various sections?

Ms Geraldine Tallon

Capital funding from the Department is clearly earmarked for the purpose of particular capital programmes. We provide specific capital funding for water services and that funding has been protected, with no decrease in the level. We provide specific funding in other areas that are outside the remit of this committee, for example housing, public libraries and fire services. That funding continues to be provided for specific purposes.

I mentioned the area of waste. We are providing an additional €13 million this year under the market development programme I already described. I mentioned earlier that good environmental performance is, ultimately, designed to save money, not cost more.

That is a good policy and I agree with it. It is an investment. If Ms Tallon wishes to include any other overview on today's meeting, she should send it to the secretariat of the committee and we will include it in the final report.

I thank Ms Tallon and her team for their comprehensive report. I congratulate them on the work they do. I have no doubt that the current crisis in the economy is putting many of their critical ambitions under strain. I respect that.

The joint committee adjourned at 1.35 p.m. sine die.
Barr
Roinn