JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 11 Feb 2009

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

Apologies have been received from Senator Twomey.

No. 1 is the draft minutes of the last meeting of the joint committee on 28 January which have been circulated. Are they agreed? Agreed.

On correspondence, I propose to take items Nos. 197 and 202 together as they are related. They are two letters from an individual, enclosing a copy of a letter to the Financial Regulator concerning corporate trustees. The individual is asking the committee to ask the regulator to send a submission to the committee in reply to the questions he has posed. Does the committee wish to ask the regulator to send a submission to it for our consideration? I propose we do so. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Item No. 198 is a response from the Office of the Director of Corporate Enforcement regarding the timeframe for the investigation into recent events at Anglo Irish Bank Corporation. It is proposed to hold a briefing session on the matter for the committee with the parliamentary legal adviser next Tuesday, 17 February, at noon. Is that agreed? Agreed. We will have a lot more to talk about at that stage.

Item No. 199 is the final result of the Irish fraud form survey, which I propose we note. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Item No. 200 is an invitation from the Irish Fraud Bureau to attend its meeting on 11 February, which clashes with this meeting. We have informed the bureau that we have a meeting today and I propose we note the correspondence.

Item No. 201 is a letter from an individual asking the committee to ascertain from the Information Commissioner her current views on the definition of "personal information" in the Freedom of Information Acts. It appears to be from an individual who regularly writes to the committee.

Deputy Richard Bruton

To what list is the Chairman referring?

Chairman

I am going through correspondence received.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I thought there was a different format. Have we abandoned it?

Chairman

No. The correspondence received should be in the material held by the Deputy.

Senator Feargal Quinn

Are we dealing with item No. 198?

Chairman

We are on item No. 201. Does the committee wish to forward the correspondence to the Information Commissioner for her views? Agreed.

Item No. 203 is a letter from the Vehicle Leasing Association of Ireland concerning a submission to the Minister for Finance to save and revitalise the industry and asking to meet the committee on the matter. Does the committee wish to invite the body to a meeting to discuss the matter? If so, I propose we invite it to come on 11 March, on which day we also propose to meet the CAB and the IFB for one hour each.

Deputy Richard Bruton

Is this item No. 202?

Chairman

No. It is item No. 203.

Deputy Richard Bruton

It has been sent by a Michael Kerslake.

Chairman

He is a member of the Vehicle Leasing Association of Ireland.

Deputy Richard Bruton

I am not sure we should act as a conduit for persons who wish to approach the Government.

Chairman

The body has already made presentations to the Department.

Deputy Richard Bruton

We need to decide whether we should choose to meet this group rather than others within the scope of our work programme. There are critical issues in the motor industry but that applies to every sector.

Chairman

It is a question on which the committee can decide.

Deputy Richard Bruton

What is the Chairman's proposal?

Chairman

If we agree to meet the Vehicle Leasing Association of Ireland, we could do so on the same day as we meet the CAB and the IFB — 11 March.

Deputy Richard Bruton

Are we meeting the CAB?

Chairman

Yes.

Deputy Chris Andrews

The meeting has been scheduled to look into the issue of persons who obtain funds through fraudulent documentation.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

Does the Chairman intend to bring them all in on the same day?

Chairman

Yes. We can give them one hour each.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

The CAB is far more important.

Chairman

The issue is one of time.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

How long will we talk to the CAB on the issue to which Deputy Andrews referred?

Chairman

Do we want to bring both in on the same day or do we want to bring them in at all? I am in the hands of the committee.

Deputy Chris Andrews

The CAB should come in.

Chairman

That has been agreed.

Deputy Richard Bruton

Is it proposed that we bring them in with the Irish Banking Federation, IBF?

Chairman

No, with the Irish Fraud Bureau, the IFB. As Deputy Bruton has said, many organisations will want to put their case. Should we entertain all of these, especially since they will already have made representations to the Minister for Finance?

Deputy Richard Bruton

In the past, we avoided hearing pre-budget submissions. They could take over our lives and we might do nothing but hear from every group in the country.

Deputy Chris Andrews

That is correct. However, as they have made submissions, perhaps we should hear them.

Chairman

Not necessarily. They will make the same submissions to the political parties and to individual members. They have already made a submission to the Minister for Finance. We will hear exactly the same thing.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

Have they received any communication from the Minister?

Chairman

We have not communicated with the Minister yet.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

Do they want to meet the joint committee?

Chairman

Yes.

Deputy Richard Bruton

This is an e-mail to you, Chairman.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

They are not demanding a meeting. Could we forward the e-mail to the Minister and——

Chairman

We could ask the Minister for a response and get back to them with that.

Deputy Richard Bruton

The request is to the Chairman, not to the committee.

Chairman

It was addressed to me as Chairman of the committee. Deputy Ardagh gave them my name as Chairman of the committee. I will forward the e-mail to the Minister and await a response.

Deputy Richard Bruton

That is the easiest thing. If we deal with the e-mail we will be taking the matter up with the Minister in the Dáil, which is a more effective way of exposing the issue and the merits of the case. Having them address the committee will merely create a paper trail. If other people feel it would be useful to meet them, I do not mind, but that is my view.

Deputy Michael McGrath

The last line of the e-mail is more a courtesy than a request for a meeting.

Chairman

We will write to the Minister. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item relates to a communication from the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny. On 27 January 2009 the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny decided to forward to us proposal COM (2007) 766 for the information of this committee. This is a proposal for a directive concerning the award of contracts in the fields of defence and security. Is it agreed to note this communication? Agreed.

Statutory instruments 584, 606 and 607 of 2008 and 5 and 6 of 2009 have been circulated to members. Is it agreed to note these? Agreed.

Under Standing Order 86(6), members have been circulated with a draft annual report covering the period 1 November 2007 to 31 December 2008. If members are happy with the annual report I suggest that it be laid before the Houses in accordance with Standing Orders. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Under Standing Order 86(4), members have been circulated with a draft work programme for 2009 based on the discussion at last week's meeting. Are there any further suggestions for inclusion in the work programme? If members are happy with the programme I suggest that it be laid before the Houses, in accordance with Standing Orders. Is that agreed? Agreed.

A draft schedule of meetings of the committee for the next few months has been circulated to members. The schedule is as follows. At today's meeting we will discuss the capital requirements directive. On 17 February we will have a private meeting with the parliamentary legal adviser who will brief the joint committee on compellability legislation. At 10 a.m. on 26 February we will meet the Minister for Finance regarding the guarantee support scheme and the legislation nationalising Anglo Irish Bank, and at 1.15 p.m. the select committee will discuss section 91 of the Finance Act 2004, which is a deferred surrender to the Central Fund Order 2009. On 4 March, the select committee will take Committee Stage of the Ombudsman (Amendment) Bill 2008. On 11 March, the joint committee will meet the Criminal Assets Bureau and the Irish Fraud Bureau regarding the issue of documents being falsified to obtain financial loans. The meetings of 4 March and 11 March remain to be confirmed. After that date the select committee will deal with Estimates for the Departments of Finance and the Taoiseach and the Office of Public Works. The dates for those meetings remain to be determined.

Deputy Michael McGrath

Will the joint committee have a role in scrutinising the recapitalisation proposals which are expected in the next day or so?

Chairman

We do not know if those proposals will be dealt with in the Dáil.

Deputy Richard Bruton

My understanding is that there will merely be statements in the Dáil. The legislation on the National Pensions Reserve Fund will be debated in the Dáil but I do not know what role the committee will have in that, or if we can fit into that schedule.

Chairman

We must wait to see the detail of the recapitalisation situation. If urgent issues arise, we can make a decision to deal with them. Apart from legislation, our schedule is not written in stone.

Deputy Kieran O’Donnell

What will happen if the National Pensions Reserve Fund legislation is amended? That is the key.

Chairman

It was originally hoped that the Minister for Finance would come to the committee on 24 February. He has requested that we move that meeting to Thursday, 26 February as he must deal with legislation in the House on the 24 February. The select committee will meet in the afternoon of that day.

Sitting suspended at 2.35 p.m. and resumed at 2.40 p.m.