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JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 11 Feb 2009

Capital Requirements Directive: Discussion with Department of Finance.

Item No. 5 is a presentation by officials from the Department of Finance on COM (2008) 602, a proposal for a directive to amend the capital requirements directive which was referred in December by the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny to this committee for written observations. At our meeting on 16 December we agreed to examine it in greater detail in the light of ongoing events in the financial sector. The following documents have been circulated: a note from the EU liaison officer on European Parliament activity related to the proposal; a briefing document from the library and research service; observations from the Irish Banking Federation; and a presentation by the Department of Finance.

I welcome from the Department of Finance Mr. Colm Breslin, principal officer; Mr. Frank Maughan, assistant principal officer, and Mr. Michael Taggart, administrative officer. I also welcome Mr. Frank Brosnan and Ms Eida Mullins from the Office of the Financial Regulator. I draw attention to the fact that while members of the committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Mr. Colm Breslin

I thank the joint committee for the invitation to appear before it to brief it on the proposed amendments to the capital requirements directive. Before setting out the main elements of the proposal before the committee, it might be useful if I provided some context on the legislative framework, of which the proposal is a part.

The legislative regime for financial regulation in Ireland is largely based on a comprehensive EU framework of directives which apply across the European Union, of which the capital requirements directive is an integral part. The directive has played a central role in supporting the development of the EU Single Market in financial services. It highlights the extent to which financial regulation in Ireland is part of a detailed and comprehensive regulatory regime in place across the Union.

In Ireland responsibility for participating in negotiations at EU level on the capital requirements directive and, in due course, transposing it into domestic legislation falls on the Department of Finance. The Financial Regulator obviously plays a very important role in providing expert advice and guidance for the Department in the negotiations, as well as on transposition issues, and will be responsible for implementing the directive when it is eventually transposed into national law.

The capital requirements directive implements the Basel II framework in the European Union. The Basel II framework is built on three pillars. Pillar 1 concerns minimum capital requirements and covers the capital required to meet credit risk, operational risk and market risk. It sets out the methodologies banks may use for the calculation of risk in each of these risk categories and the amount of capital banks must retain as a result. Therefore, a bank's total pillar 1 capital adequacy requirement is a combination of the capital components it must hold to reflect its credit risk, operational risk and market risk.

Pillar 2 concerns the supervisory review process. It covers a bank’s own internal assessment of its risk profile and resulting capital adequacy requirements. It enables regulators to review a bank’s capital assessment policy and may also require additional capital to be retained by a bank in addition to the capital requirement created under pillar 1.

The third pillar relates to market discipline and deals with disclosure by institutions of the amounts, components and features of capital, information on capital adequacy and general disclosures of credit risk exposure. There are additional requirements for banks adopting the more advanced approaches for their internal capital assessment, disclosures of equity exposure, credit risk mitigation techniques, asset securitisation, market risk, operational risk and interest rate risk.

The capital requirements directive comprises two directives — Directive No. 48 of 2006 relating to the taking up and pursuit of the business of credit institutions and Directive No. 49 of 2006 on the capital adequacy of investment firms and credit institutions. While I refer in this presentation to rules applying to banks, the directive applies also to investment firms.

The main aims of the capital requirements directive are: to enhance financial stability; safeguard the interests of creditors, including depositors; promote a stronger culture of risk management by industry; and ensure the international competitiveness of the EU banking sector. The legal framework of the directive replaces the previous directives in this field. In this regard, the directive not only implements the Basel II framework within the European Union, it also incorporates the earlier framework of rules under which institutions may become authorised to carry on banking business within the Union.

The proposal to amend the capital requirements directive reflects the fact that the directive is very much considered to be an evolving legislative framework and that it foresaw that further co-decision amendments such as this would be adopted. The directive also allows implementing provisions to be adopted by way of Commission directives in line with the Commission's comitology powers, subject to appropriate scrutiny by both the Council and the Parliament. This flexibility applies to technical adjustments to the directive annexes which will be necessary on an ongoing basis, reflecting the dynamic nature of the financial services industry. In this respect, the committee may be aware that proposals for two such Commission directives are being scrutinised by the Council and the Parliament.

The proposal before the committee arises from three principal sources. The first part of the proposal concerns elements of the capital requirements directive left open at the time it was adopted in 2006 on the basis that further analytical work was required. These include revisions to rules of the regime for large exposures included in the directive but left unchanged from previous directives, derogations from certain prudential requirements in the directive for so-called bank networks — credit institutions which are affiliated to a central body, mostly co-operative banks and not present in the Irish market — and the establishment of common EU rules for the treatment of hybrid capital instruments.

The second part of the proposal concerns largely technical adjustments found to be necessary arising from the transposition of the capital requirements directive. These technical amendments relate to inconsistent or unworkable parts of the directive text identified during the transposition phase. They do not have any particular implications for Ireland.

The final group of amendments have been prompted by the financial market disturbance that began in 2007 and concern rules related to capital requirements and risk management for securitisation positions, supervision arrangements for cross-border banking groups and the management of liquidity risk. I will deal with each of these in turn, reflecting the current position in Council where it has changed from the original Commission proposal.

The aim of the large exposures regime in the capital requirements directive is to prevent an institution from incurring disproportionately large losses as a result of the failure of an individual client, or a group of connected clients, due to the occurrence of unforeseen events. The proposal seeks to both harmonise and simplify the current rules relating to these exposures.

Hybrid capital instruments are securities that contain features of both equity and debt. The purpose in issuing such instruments is to cover the capital needs of banks, while appealing to an investor class which is willing to take more risk than in fixed income products and which, therefore, also expects higher returns. From the banks' perspective, hybrid capital instruments offer an additional source of funds. They are normally designed in a way that, for regulatory purposes, they qualify as original own funds and thus may be counted as a tier 1 element of a bank's capital.

While the Basel committee on banking supervision had issued guidelines in 1998 on the criteria for inclusion of hybrid capital in banks' own funds, these guidelines had not been implemented in EU directives due to the need for significant preparatory work. Rules existed only in certain member states whose national legislation enabled the recognition of hybrid capital.

The second element relates to derogation from certain prudential requirements in the CRD for so-called bank networks. These can be understood as credit institutions which are affiliated to a central body and are mostly co-operative banks. Since such entities do not operate in Ireland, I will not dwell on them.

Another change introduced by this proposal concerns capital requirements for collective investment undertakings, CIU. This is essentially a technical adjustment and arises from concern that the capital requirements for investments in collective investment undertakings, such as mutual funds, were too strict under the internal ratings based — or IRB — approach in those cases where banks could not or did not want to provide internal rating for the exposure held by the CIU.

Turning to the group of amendments that have been prompted by the financial market disturbance, the first of these concerns liquidity, or cash flow, which is a key determinant of the soundness of the banking sector. The proposed changes implement the work conducted by the committee of European banking supervisors and the Basel committee on banking supervision to develop sound principles for liquidity risk management. The proposed changes require credit institutions to put in place robust strategies, policies, processes and systems to identify, measure and manage liquidity risk. Here again, Ireland already had in place clear qualitative and quantitative requirements relating to liquidity dating from 2006 and the proposals in this text mirror the Irish requirements in most respects.

The proposal relating to management of risk in securitisation products draws upon conclusions arising from the recent financial crisis. The concern that originators of secturitisation products do not have sufficient incentives to take proper steps to both understand and quantify the risk of these products has led to the proposed requirement that originators or sponsors retain not less than a 5% material share of the risks in a securitisation product to better align the interests of the originator or sponsor, on the one hand, and the investor on the other.

This quantitative requirement will be complemented by a qualitative requirement which ensures investors have a thorough understanding of the underlying risks and the complex structural features of what they are buying through appropriate due diligence. Originators will, as a result, be required to make appropriate information available to enable investors make informed decisions.

The final set of changes relates to the way national supervisors co-ordinate their activities and provides a legal basis for the establishment of colleges of supervisors for strengthened co-ordination of supervisory activities for cross-border banking groups. The intention is that supervisors involved in the supervision of a cross-border banking group would consistently apply, within that banking group, the prudential requirements under the directive. Colleges will also be required for supervisors overseeing cross-border entities that do not have subsidiaries in other member states but that have systemically important branches. To promote a more consistent application of the directive's rules both within and between colleges, the committee of European banking supervisors is empowered to provide non-binding guidelines and recommendations.

That concludes my summary of the main elements of the proposal. As recent developments have demonstrated, capital requirements are at the heart of the soundness and stability of individual institutions and the financial system overall. The issues addressed in these CRD revisions, while technical, will play an important role in addressing weaknesses in the current Basel framework.

Further work is under way on other aspects of the capital adequacy framework for banks and other reforms of regulatory and supervisory arrangements in the context of a number of road maps adopted by EU finance Ministers. The committee will be aware that the proposal is still under consideration by the Council and the European Parliament. Whereas the Council agreed a common position at the ECOFIN meeting on 2 December last, a vote in the Parliament's ECON committee on the proposal has not yet taken place but is expected in early March with a view to a plenary vote in early April and its adoption in advance of the end of the parliamentary term. We are now available to take questions from the committee.

I thank Mr. Breslin.

I must admit I am not familiar with everything that is going on but it seems that whereas this is of interest, it misses the big picture on what has gone wrong. We know the origin of the problems we now face were in the deplorable writing of business in the first instance; people were writing mortgages for people who were not in a position to pay and the regulators were ineffective in preventing it. We have had a dimension of that ourselves, where very high loan to value ratios were being loaned and people were hopelessly exposed. All the warnings that the value of property was bloated were ignored.

The Central Bank responded belatedly to deal with that. The rating agencies also played an appalling role, where some of this stuff was being securitised and bundled, with AAA ratings being given and people not knowing the content. It does not seem that the proposals are an addition. Keeping 5% "skin in the game" may be some advance but the proposals for regulating the rating agencies are not present.

How adequate is inter-country co-operation not only in regulation but in responding to the failures of regulation, which we are in the depths of currently? It seems the EU has been ineffective in getting any sort of cross-country consistency in what is being done. There does not appear to be a co-operative model and the best that has been achieved is to provide a menu, with countries being able to do what they like. There is a large element of countries doing what they choose.

In a way this is a test of Europe's capacity to keep financial institutions strong. My worry is it is not being very effective in doing so. I know there are all sorts of political reasons also, with some countries believing the problems are not their own, so why should they be part of the solution. We are quite a distance from having the structure of inter-country co-operation that would make us effective in regulating and in responding to regulatory failure as it has currently occurred.

The college of supervisors is a typical compromise to try to bridge the gap between people who want national independence and those who want more co-ordinated oversight. If it is a compromise deal it is fine and I have no problems with it. I have no problems with keeping the 5% skin in the game, which seems to be the subject of much criticism. I know it may become cumbersome and may make it more difficult to sell on securitised loans. If other countries do not apply the same rules, it may put Europe at a disadvantage. Given the way in which securitisation has brought the house of cards tumbling down, the very least we could do is insist that the people who originate the loans have some skin in the game as the process rolls along.

I do not know who will have the final view.

I hope the Minister will have sufficient knowledge. It is a technical area.

We will leave the political side out of this.

The other issue that has come into firm view has been the extent to which companies comply with a principles-based regulatory regime. We have had some catastrophic cases and, in respect of one bank, day by day we have seen how the principles were not being applied. People may use the defence that they are within the letter of the law. I do not know how credible that defence is. If the principle was to be transparent, to give markets accurate views of what they were doing, those principles were not adhered to. The issue that has not been addressed is the extent to which the principle-based regime must change. Must we have inspectors crawling all over or should we remain with principles but make the penalties for non-compliance so great that no company would dare risk falling foul of it? Ireland is in the dock for the weakness of our principle-based regime in the case of some financial institutions. While this is an EU-wide document, some of the most important issues are not addressed in this. While some issues are not unreasonable compromises, maybe this is one brick in a building and we will see many more bricks put in place. All one could say is that this is one brick in the wall, it is not a wall.

To clarify, this is a briefing on the technical aspects of this directive. If the committee has recommendations it wishes the Minister to take on board, we can forward them to the Minister.

Are the officials in a position to stress test our suggestions?

If we wish, we can then ask the Minister to discuss this matter with us. This exercise is a technical one.

I too welcome Mr. Breslin and his colleagues from the Department and the Financial Regulator. What impact will this have on financial institutions operating in Ireland? Does it represent a tightening in the availability of credit? Does the regulation impose more stringent requirements, which the Financial Regulator must implement? Will this have the effect of the loan books of the banks being narrowed somewhat? Can the officials give us a sense of the practical implications for customers of this directive being transposed into Irish law and implemented by the Financial Regulator? Page 5 of the submission highlights several areas where the content of the directive has changed in recent months, following the turbulence in financial markets. In particular, the issue of liquidity is highlighted:

The proposed changes require credit institutions to put in place robust strategies, policies, processes and systems to identify, measure and manage liquidity risk. Here again, Ireland already had in place clear qualitative and quantitative requirements relating to liquidity dating from 2006 and the proposals in this text mirror the Irish requirements in most respects.

Can the delegation square this with how such a problem arose for the financial institutions with regard to liquidity and why the State had to step in with the bank guarantee scheme if the Irish model of liquidity is the one now being adopted throughout Europe? Can the delegation give us a sense of what requirements existed before 2006, before the first capital requirements directive? Does the Department support the directive as it is currently drafted? What is our formal position in respect of that? Did we transpose the previous directives in their original form or were amendments specific to our domestic situation made?

Mr. Colm Breslin

Deputy Bruton referred to the credit rating agencies and why they were not involved. A proposal dealing with the regulation of credit rating agencies is undergoing the co-decision process at the moment. It is not included in the directive but will be included in a separate regulation. There is a proposal for credit rating agencies to be registered in a member state and for there to be supervision. That issue is being tackled.

Deputy Bruton referred to the securitisation proposal and how he would be happy enough with 5% skin in the game. The problem with securitisation was a transatlantic one. It happened in the United States where people were selling mortgages and off-loading them through the securitisation process without good examination of the risk attached to some of those mortgages. People on very low incomes, who could not afford mortgages, were being granted mortgages. Those securitised products were sold around the world, which is why there was some contagion across Europe and some of the large continental European banks were stung by this. It was not an issue in the Irish market, which was doing very well and did not need to invest in these toxic assets. The securitisation problem was not domestic or European but rather an American problem.

The committee has heard a submission from the Irish Banking Federation on its concerns about the securitisation proposal in this. As it stands, at 5%, it is just about acceptable but there are views among various members of the European Parliament which could mean it might be 5%, 10% or 20%. If the figure was to go above 5% it would be a cause for serious concern to the securitisation industry. Securitisation can be an important element in funding by banking institutions. Some 10% of mortgage financing is generated through the securitisation process. If that source of funding was seriously jeopardised by over-regulation, it could have consequences for mortgage funding and the funding of banks generally.

Deputy Bruton referred to our principles-based regulation. Two reviews are being undertaken by the Financial Regulator at the moment. One is a value for money review, the other is a review of the approach to the principles-based regulation and the Economist Intelligence Unit is the contracting party.

Is it not bizarre that the review is undertaken internally by the regulator, on whose watch things collapsed? We would have some confidence if the Department of Finance had brought in some credible outside agency with a high reputation to examine what we have done and where we went wrong. It is hard to believe that people will be judge and jury in their own case.

Mr. Colm Breslin

I will let my colleague from the Financial Regulator speak on that if he has information on that. At least one is being conducted by an outside party, of which the Economist Intelligence Unit is one part. Another entity is conducting a review of the principles-based approach to regulation along with the Economist Intelligence Unit. Outside parties are involved in reviewing the way in which the Financial Regulator——

If I pay the piper I will call the tune.

Mr. Colm Breslin

Not quite, in the present situation. It would have to be a more objective report.

In my presentation I made the point that we do not have an Irish form of financial regulation as such. The EU framework applies across all member states. It is the same set of directives and there is very little by way of optional provisions. Such as they may be, they are of no consequence. In other words, member states are reading from the same hymn sheet in terms of regulation, other than in one or two areas which may not be regulated. Different approaches will be taken in different jurisdictions as to the reliance on desk-based supervision or visits and so on. However, there is little difference in terms of the overall impact of regulation.

As I mentioned in my presentation, as far back as 2006 we introduced liquidity requirements, on which my colleagues from the office of the Financial Regulator may elaborate. These liquidity requirements were a forerunner to the current directive proposals. Members asked about loan to value ratios, the provision of 100% mortgages and so on. In early 2007 restrictions were imposed by the Financial Regulator which sought to ensure loan to value ratios would return to more realistic levels. My colleagues will expand on this.

The capital requirements directive was transposed into Irish law towards the end of 2006 and applied from 1 January 2007. It included an option, whereby the move to the internal ratings-based approach under pillar one could be delayed until 1 January 2008. With most member states, we availed of this option, after which we were obliged to ratchet up to the full terms of the capital requirements directive from 1 January 2008. We are compliant in this regard. The current proposals seek to deal with unfinished business and also with the recent global financial turmoil.

Mr. Brosnan may wish to elaborate on the points I have made.

Mr. Frank Brosnan

As Mr. Breslin pointed out, the Commission has made a proposal for the introduction of a level of regulatory oversight for credit rating agencies. Under the proposal, agencies will no longer provide advisory services, will only be allowed to rate financial instruments if they have sufficient quality information on which to base their ratings, must disclose their models, methodologies and key assumptions in this regard, must publish an annual transparency report, must create an internal function to review the quality of their rating, and must have at least three independent directors on their boards whose remuneration does not depend upon the business performance of the agency. This is the first step.

Deputy Bruton referred to securitisation, one of the core issues. The complexity of several of the securitised products was such that people abdicated their own due diligence responsibility and placed reliance instead upon the ratings assigned by the credit rating agencies. In view of this, in addition to keeping the 5% skin in the game, to use that term, there is also the requirement that investors must conduct their own due diligence and be able to prove this was done, in formulating an opinion on whether to engage in a securitisation.

I ask my colleague, Ms Mullins, to address the questions on liquidity, after which I will deal with the other issues raised.

Ms Eida Mullins

Deputy McGrath asked about liquidity. Before we introduced our new liquidity requirements in June 2006, a point-in-time approach was adopted, in respect of which there was a requirement to have 25% of liquid assets to total borrowings. This was a crude measure. Some years prior to the publication of our paper in June 2006 we developed a new liquidity approach. This was a maturity mismatch approach, whereby over various time buckets, one looked at cash inflows and cash outflows to determine whether there was a mismatch. This was a sophisticated approach. In addition to developing this quantitative requirement, we also set out qualitative requirements in our 2006 paper, outlining what we expected from the board and senior management in regard to liquidity requirements, internal controls, contingency planning and stress testing. This introduced an obligation to stress-test in respect of both a market-wide stress scenario and in the context of the specific credit institution.

On the question of whether this system has withstood the current problems, it was based on a going concern where banks had to make certain decisions based on their assumptions as to what the cash flows would be for each time bucket. This approach was based on a normal going concern. Obviously, a different situation has presented since October 2007 but, under the qualitative requirements, we would have expected the financial institutions to have a contingency plan and associated policies and procedures and to stress-test for certain situations.

In terms of the requirements in regard to liquidity coming through under the capital requirements directive, we were part of the Committee of European Banking Supervisors, CEBS, working group which came up with the 30 recommendations. As my colleague observed, many of these recommendations mirror those made in our 2006 paper.

Mr. Frank Brosnan

Reference was made to principles-based regulation. Our regulatory framework incorporates certain high level principles but these principles are in furtherance of implementation of specific rules-based directives. We have a multitude of legislation, rules-based directives and so on. To consider this a principles-only regulatory jurisdiction would be a misnomer.

In response to the question of whether we are best placed to conduct a review of ourselves, I am aware that anything I say will seem defensive. Nonetheless, it should be acknowledged that even before the concerns articulated in recent months had arisen, the question of a review of the principles-based approach had been raised in the context of our next three-year strategic plan for the period 2009 to 2011. The objective of that review was to examine the effectiveness of the current approach in the context of European Union and international developments. As part of the review, we retained the services of independent, third party consultants. Their report will be submitted to us, after which it will be made available to key stakeholders in order that we can agree on an appropriate framework. Issues to consider include the question of whether a differential approach is required for different financial sectors, an analysis of our risk rating system and inspection framework and, of crucial importance in the current environment, a review of the adequacy of information supplied by financial service providers. We will then decide the areas on which we need to focus and also those areas that are secondary and which may perhaps be deprioritised.

Some of the European legislation to which I referred is very specific in its provisions. In particular, I draw members' attention to the directives relating to market abuse. The markets in financial instruments directive, MiFID, for example, is a maximum harmonisation directive which imposes specific and extremely detailed requirements in regard to client asset rules, consumer codes and so on. This has been our approach since our establishment in 2003. However, as I said, that was scheduled for review even before current difficulties emerged.

There is also a broader review of international regulatory frameworks. I refer, in particular, to the Larosiére group, the high level working group on EU financial supervision set up by the Commission in 2008. The group is charged with examining how supervision of European financial institutions and markets can best be organised to ensure the prudential soundness of the institutions and the functioning of the markets into the future. It will also examine ways to strengthen European co-operation on financial stability oversight, early warning mechanisms and crisis management and how supervisors in European Union competent authorities should co-operate with other major jurisdictions in view of the current global financial instability.

I thank the delegates for their attendance. As previous speakers noted, members do not need to be reminded of the reason for the introduction of the directive, as they understand perfectly the difficulties. Are there aspects of the directive about which the Financial Regulator or the Department of Finance have reservations? Are the delegates allowed to express an opinion on the directive or are such opinions to come from the Minister for Finance? Although the issue of penalties is huge, the briefing document provided by the Department of Finance does not mention it. The delegates should touch on what would be the penalties and consequences were banks not to pay attention to the proposed guidelines. For example, will bankers who do not follow the directives go to jail?

What effect will the directive have on the office of the Financial Regulator? Will it request reporting on a weekly or monthly basis by banks to ensure they are meeting the directive's requirements? Will the Financial Regulator engage in auditing and examining the books? Will it be considerably more proactive than it has been to date? What confidence can investors have that the directive will be properly policed? If problems arise, to whom will the Financial Regulator report? Will it report directly to the Minister? What action can he take?

Mr. Colm Breslin

I will deal briefly with the point raised regarding penalties. As I recall, the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland Act 2004 included extensive penalties in the financial regulatory regime. While my colleague can confirm this, I believe it imposed penalties of up to five years' imprisonment and €5 million in fines. Consequently, substantial penalties are available under the Irish financial services regulatory regime.

Have such penalties ever been imposed?

Mr. Colm Breslin

Penalties have been imposed. A penalty of €3 million was imposed recently in the Quinn case. I will allow my colleague to indicate what penalties apply.

Mr. Frank Brosnan

As Mr. Breslin pointed out, the framework for the administrative sanctions regime was established in the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority of Ireland Act 2004 which gives power to impose sanctions and apply a range of measures to institutions in breach of their compliance requirements. I will reiterate the point about rules and principles in this regard, namely, that a key component of the capital requirements directive is that a range of supervisory measures is set out for institutions in breach of the directive. Such measures range from the application of additional capital to limitation of business activities, etc. Obviously, one has the extreme scenario in which supervisors can consider whether a licence should be suspended or withdrawn. However, a range of sanctions are available in this regard and the regulator has demonstrated that it has applied sanctions in the past.

Will the Financial Regulator be considerably more proactive? Will it engage in bank visits to ensure the figures are correct, that no massaging of figures is taking place and that everything is okay?

Mr. Frank Brosnan

First——

The Deputy's line of questioning has strayed from the directive. He should stick with the directive that members are supposed to be considering. Otherwise, we could travel all over the world.

I was referring to the effects of the directive.

Mr. Frank Brosnan

I will refer to the earlier comments on the model of regulation. The review which involves external consultants is ongoing. The model of engagement with institutions will fully reflect the outcomes of the review. However, we acknowledge and our assessment has shown that more on-site engagement such as that suggested by the Deputy has significant resource implications. This is a reality that we also must consider. It is a question of getting the balance right.

Are reports sent monthly or weekly from the bank to the Financial Regulator?

Mr. Frank Brosnan

On issues pertaining to frequency, we have a range of reports on subjects such as financial returns or liquidity that come in with varying frequency. There is no single report.

Will a specific report be forthcoming as a result of the directive?

Mr. Frank Brosnan

Which would deal with these particular issues.

Ms Eida Mullins

One specific report — COREP — deals with capital requirements and comes in on a quarterly basis. Since the onset of the turmoil, our liquidity requirements are being met on a weekly basis, although the frequency originally was quarterly. However, the amendments to the capital requirements directive contain a proposal to the effect that COREP reporting, in frequency, format and date, will be uniform across Europe. By the time the amendments come through the capital requirements directive, effectively the reports will be made in the same fashion across Europe in respect of frequency and their actual content.

What will the frequency be?

Ms Eida Mullins

That has not yet been decided. It will be decided at the Committee of European Banking Supervisors, CEBS, of which we are a member.

I thank the representatives of the Department and the Financial Regulator for their attendance. Does the amended capital requirements directive deal with the weighting of loans? I refer to the types of loans and the weightings in respect of the percentage of deposits vis-à-vis loans. As for the value for money review being carried out, when do the delegates expect it to be ready? When did it start and to whom will it be given? Will the Financial Regulator provide the report for the Minister? Who is paying for it?

Reference was made to the issue of liquidity and so forth. Did the Financial Regulator consider the issue of the flow of funds, deposits and mismatches? Did it find that the sum of €4 billion lodged by Irish Life & Permanent in Anglo Irish Bank was something of a mismatch in respect of the level of deposits? I understand approximately €7 billion in total was lodged, including a lodgement of €4 billion on a specific date. Did the Financial Regulator review this transaction? Was it reported to either the Central Bank or the Minister for Finance and, if so, when? Ms Mullins referred to mismatches. How often are such mismatches considered by the Financial Regulator? When did it first become aware of the transfer of €7 billion from Irish Life & Permanent to Anglo Irish Bank? If one examines Anglo Irish Bank's preliminary returns for this year——

The Deputy has strayed with a loaded question.

Its deposits from banks increased by nearly 250%, from €7.6 billion to €20.4 billion, which strikes me as something of a mismatch. The delegates should deal with these points.

Mr. Colm Breslin

I will respond briefly on the first point raised by the Deputy as to whether there are specific provisions with regard to the weightings or risk ratings attached to different categories of loan. This matter was dealt with fully in the capital requirements directive brought into operation on 1 January 2007. Extensive annexes are attached to the directive that deal with all the varieties of risk attaching to different types of loans.

With all due respect, in the current climate it is clear that one must question whether some of the weightings were sufficiently severe.

Mr. Colm Breslin

I am not sure about that. First, the capital requirements directive has not been in operation for long enough to make such an assessment with regard to the way in which it has operated in respect of risk weightings in particular areas. The problems that have arisen lately in an Irish context probably are due to rapid credit growth and possible over-exposure to property-related assets. There also was a growing dependence on international wholesale funding. However, the risk weightings, as set out in the capital requirements directive and which apply across the European Union, are not changed by the proposal under discussion. As Deputy Bruton said, the skill in the game in securitisation lies in looking again at large exposures, how much a person can have at risk with any particular borrower or group of borrowers.

How is a small bank defined? There are stricter requirements for them.

Mr. Colm Breslin

My colleagues from the Financial Regulator would be more familiar with the definition.

Mr. Frank Brosnan

Is this a reference to the large exposures provisions? It is stricter in the way it is worded but it provides greater flexibility for small banks. It is an awkward text but it states that 25% of owned funds is a large exposure. In a small bank with a smaller level of owned funds, the largest exposure is correspondingly smaller. It will impute a level of €150 million to allow smaller banks to compete. It affords flexibility.

What about the mismatch of funds?

Ms Eida Mullins

Under the predecessor to the capital requirements directive we had the Basel I requirements, where there were four risk weightings used for lending — 0% for central Governments or banks because they were not seen as risky, 20% for institutions such as banks and investment firms, a 50% weighting for lending for mortgages and 100% for everything else. It was a crude measure; AAA rated corporate would have been risk rated at 100%, the same as a small business which would have been seen as risky. That is how Basel II and the CRD developed.

The risk ratings are complicated, depending on the credit method being used. There are three methods, the standardised approach, which uses the credit rating agencies, which review the loans and rate them according to their criteria. This is then mapped into credit quality steps in the CRD that are equivalent to risk ratings. A more advanced bank uses the IRB approach, of which there are two types, the foundation and the advanced. A foundation IRB bank models its probability of default. It tries to model with a level of 99.9% confidence that over the next year, the probability of default of an obligor is so much. It is a complicated mathematical model and the loss, default and exposure are all set out in the CRD. The advanced approach models both probability of default, loss given default and conversion factors for off-balance sheet items. The CRD is more risk sensitive than what existed under Basel I and is a much better regime.

Was the €7 billion that was given by way of depositor loan on 30 September from Irish Life & Permanent to Anglo Irish Bank a mismatch in terms of flow of funds?

Mr. Frank Brosnan

Neither of us has direct engagement with the examination team for Anglo Irish Bank or Irish Life & Permanent so we are not in a position to make any observations. The matter is under scrutiny within the Financial Regulator.

I am talking about compliance. Is the flow of deposits into and out of the banks reviewed?

Ms Eida Mullins

I work in the policy area so I am involved in policy development, including the liquidity requirements. I am not, however, involved in direct regulation of any of the institutions.

Is either of you involved in that area?

Mr. Frank Brosnan

I would be involved but I deal with capital market banks, which are the larger banks such as Merrill Lynch and Citigroup. I would not deal with retail banks. There is a special unit for them.

Have either of you dealt with the regulation on the flow of funds from Irish Life and Permanent to Anglo Irish Bank?

Mr. Colm Breslin

I am here today because I deal with the development of policy and regulation on an EU front. There are many negotiations going on at departmental level with regard to specific issues at national level but I am not party to them so I cannot enlighten the committee on anything there.

The Deputy is straying outside the remit of today's meeting. The witnesses have answered.

When will the value for money review be concluded?

Mr. Frank Brosnan

Is it being done currently. I should stress it is a review on the appropriateness of a principles-based regime.

The European Economist Intelligence Unit is involved. The value for money review was referred to earlier.

Mr. Frank Brosnan

We may be talking about a different review.

The financial regulator's review.

Mr. Frank Brosnan

On the other review, done in the context of the strategic plan, I have no date for it but we can come back to the committee with a date.

When did the review commence?

Mr. Frank Brosnan

That review has been going on since 2008. It has been part of the planning for the three year strategic plan for 2009-11 so it must include current events.

Mr. Breslin, what about your review?

Mr. Colm Breslin

I am afraid that I do not have specific details on the reviews going on. They would be on another side of the house at present.

Please send the committee a note.

I shall try to stick to the brief. I am always concerned about rushed legislation and this directive only came into operation at the beginning of 2008, 13 months ago. We are now bringing it back and changing it very quickly. Was there a misjudgment as to the original legislation or is this a rushed response to the problems that have occurred since then?

In page one of his presentation, Mr. Breslin stated that the CRD has supported a central role in the development of the EU single market in financial services and he highlighted the extent to which financial regulation in Ireland is part of a detailed and comprehensive regulatory regime which is in place right across the EU. What went wrong and will this solve our problems?

On page 6, we read about securitisation and that the requirement will ensure investors have a thorough understanding of the underlying risks and complex structural features of what they are buying through appropriate due diligence. As a result, provision has been made that appropriate information will be made available. How will that be achieved?

To promote consistent application within and between colleges, the Committee of the European Banking Supervisors is empowered to provide non-binding guidelines and recommendations. Are these guidelines non-binding? Are they self-regulatory? Commissioner McCreevy said recently he was going to introduce legislation for hedge funds but seemed vague about whether there should be self-regulation for private equity. That may not come into this but I would like to have self-regulation explained.

Mr. Colm Breslin

There is a good reason for the Committee of European Banking Supervisors issuing non-binding regulations. There are three committees of supervisors for the different areas: the Committee of the European Securities Regulators, the Committee of European Banking Supervisors and a committee for the insurance area. These are networks of the supervisors from all 27 member states. They meet to discuss issues relating to the areas they supervise, be it banking or something else. They discuss them among themselves and try to find solutions to problems through consensus. It is, effectively, a network of supervisors who meet to discuss issues. If they were to discuss binding recommendations, there would, essentially, be a single European regulator. They form a network of regulators, not a single European regulator. Since there is no single European regulator, it is important to member states that this committee of supervisors is not seen as such, issuing and acting as a regulator in its own right. It is a network of regulators, not a regulator.

As I am a great believer in subsidiarity, I support that view but it seems there have been moves towards having a single European regulator. Professor Kevin O'Rourke spoke on this matter during the week and suggested the only solution was a single European regulator. Is it likely we will head in this direction?

Mr. Colm Breslin

The de la Rosière committee is examining a number of matters, of which this is one. It will report to the European Council on 19 and 20 March and we will see what is proposed. Pending the making of a recommendation, we will keep our own counsel; we will not commit ourselves until then.

I was asked whether it was too soon to amend the directive. It was adopted in 2006 but, because it is comprehensive and technical legislation, it was necessary to allow time to embed it at local level to the extent that changes were required. Although it was finally adopted around April 2006, there was a significant lead-in period before it kicked in properly. As I said, there are various reasons for introducing the current proposal. Some relate to items being plucked off the roadmaps and fast-tracked for implementation. Others were agreed in principle in 2006 but not fleshed out because they required more work. They have been worked on in the interim and are now ready and capable of being put into operation. In this regard, there has not been a knee-jerk reaction.

The securitisation proposal arose from the sub-prime crisis in the United States. Many banks, including European ones, bought products, even though they did not understand the full risk attached to them. Some banks have suffered considerable losses, although not in Ireland because we were not involved in possessing such toxic assets — there was enough happening with the Celtic tiger and we did not need to invest in such products. There is a concern, however, that originators, those issuing securitisation instruments, should show greater transparency. It is considered they should more clearly disclose the contents of securitisation products in order that those who wish to invest in them understand the risk involved. This is part of the raison d’être behind the reform. I hope that when it comes into operation the securitisation market will be safer for investors, provided they do not go overboard on the skin in the game and kill the market at the originators’ end.

The Latin phrase caveat emptor might apply but I like the phrase obesa non cantavit, which means the fat lady has not yet sung. We will have to wait and see.

Who will supply information on the quantitative and qualitative requirements?

Mr. Colm Breslin

I will let my colleague from the Financial Regulator's office deal with that matter.

Mr. Frank Brosnan

On quantitative and qualitative requirements, the issuer of securitisations will have to provide sufficient information to allow an informed investor to make an assessment. This will help to address the issue of many investors, even sophisticated investors, abdicating due diligence in favour of reliance upon a highly rated asset. Given the complexity of some of the products on offer and the level of clarity within rating agencies regarding whether an AAA rating should have been given in some circumstances, this is an understandable provision.

I understand this is a draft directive published by the European Commission. Is Ireland making recommendations regarding changes to it? The delegates have been kind enough to outline what it is about but it is for negotiation and discussion at this stage. Will we simply accept what the Commission states or will we have an input? Who will negotiate on our behalf and what advice are they receiving from the Minister and committees such as this? What role do we have? This is a co-decision directive and the European Parliament has appointed a rapporteur who has suggested he will propose a raft of amendments, particularly relating to supervisory arrangements, securitisation and core capital base. Given the experience in this country in the past 12 months, we should be fit to make strong recommendations in order that others will not experience the horrible things we have endured such as bad regulation, bad implementation, fraud, the misleading of investors and the theft of pensions through dividends.

In terms of supervisory arrangements, what improvements are proposed? What role should internal auditors play? Should they be free from direct contact with the regulator in order that they would not have to report to members of management who were concealing criminal acts?

I think the Deputy has——

Do not interrupt me, please.

I will interrupt the Deputy.

I am dealing with matters related to a Commission proposal that involves supervisory arrangements, core capital base——

These are special provisions for an amendment to the directive.

The Deputy is moving into an area not covered in the directive.

Like Deputy Fahey and me, the Chairman has been a Minister and I am sure he has attended ministerial meetings. We attend such meetings to make recommendations for changes to proposals from the Commission. The purpose of this exercise is to discuss whether we should make recommendations for changes to proposals from the Commission. Is the Department advising us and is it happy with what is being proposed? Will it suggest alternative changes? I want to know what changes the Government, the Department and the committee will recommend under headings such as supervisory arrangements.

Regarding core capital base and the methodology for calculating regulatory capital, how can we allow a situation to continue where land was valued at a certain figure when everyone knew it was wrong? If we are serious about looking at this directive and making proposals to amend it rather than chatting about it, I would like to know what changes we propose to make because the institutions have shown they are incapable of self-regulation and that a permanent watchdog is required. I want to ensure this never happens again. What qualifications are required to work in the area of investments and bonds? Look at the individuals who collected money for purported investments. We now have discovered they were putting the money in their own pockets. Was there supervision in that area? The public needs to be protected. In the US, they had Bernie Madoff but we had mini-Madoffs.

We now have an opportunity to make an input into a serious directive based on our horrible experience of people misleading others daily. We should never allow that to happen again. Opportunities do not come our way very often to make these inbuilt changes, and we must seize the opportunity to do so. Will delegates from the Department of Finance and the Financial Regulator confirm whether they have proposals and whether they will revert to the joint committee to learn what proposals will arise from our meetings? We have been asked to scrutinise a Commission proposal and having done so, we are as entitled to make recommendations as the delegates before us. I do not know who will be representing the Government at European level but I would like others to benefit from our bad experience. We have been ripped off and we want to ensure we are never ripped off again. We have an opportunity to change this directive so that we will not be ripped off again.

Mr. Colm Breslin

This proposal was published last October and looking ahead to the co-decision process in Europe and bearing in mind that the present European Parliament is due to dissolve by mid-year, there was a concern that the discussion of this directive should be fast-tracked in such a way as to stay within the timeframe of the current European Parliament. The consultation and negotiation on the directive has been expedited. When the proposal was published it was referred to the Council and the Parliament. A Council working group was established and representatives from the Department of Finance, together with representatives from the Financial Regulator, went to represent Ireland in the Council working group. Apart from discussing the proposals bilaterally in the Department of Finance with the regulator and seeing whether there were particular concerns of acute anxiety to Ireland, there were also discussions with stakeholders in Ireland, the main one being the representative body of the banks, the Irish Banking Federation. Discussions were held with the Irish Banking Federation to see the concerns of the industry. Armed with that exchange of views and the input from stakeholders, the negotiating team from Ireland went to the Council working group and reflected the views expressed.

Obviously we had concerns about the provisions on securitisation, large exposures and other technical issues. It is essentially a technical proposal amending an even more technical proposal. It must be dealt with at the level of the specifics of the technical provisions rather than in a generalised way. The proposal was referred to the Oireachtas scrutiny committee at the time, as is standard procedure, and it reported back to us that it had no observations or concerns about the directive. I think it was then referred to this committee. No specific concerns were raised by the Oireachtas. There were various compromises made along the way in the negotiations and ECOFIN signed off on this proposal on 2 December 2008. As far as that element of the co-decision process is concerned, the Council of Ministers was happy with the proposal as it stood on 2 December.

Parliament is still in the process of continuing its examination and it has tabled various amendments, some of which will be of concern to us and we will see how things develop. Whatever is eventually adopted by Parliament, to the extent it differs from whatever has been adopted by the Council of Ministers, will be subject to a reconciliation process by negotiations between the Council, the Commission and the Parliament. If we have concerns outstanding at that stage, we will put forward our views, depending on the amendments the Parliament decides to adopt. That is the current state of play on this directive.

In effect, Mr. Breslin is saying that we are wasting our time and that this is agreed. This is an horrific situation. What is the purpose of discussing this directive when, as he has admitted, the Council of Ministers have signed off on it and only that the rapporteur seems to be doing his job, we would not have an opportunity to use the European Parliament vehicle to have our concerns expressed. What alarms me is that the Department of Finance found fit to represent the banking interests, and that it was more concerned about the banking interests than the views of Members of the Oireachtas who represent the public which is being ripped off by the banking industry.

I want to say——

I am not finished. This matter was referred to us by the scrutiny committee.

This directive was forwarded to us by the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny for our observations.

The officials are here to explain the directive to the joint committee.

Mr. Breslin has just told us that the officials signed off on it. What is the point of explaining the directive? I am concerned about making an input into the directive. It was referred to the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service for consideration and now we find that the Department of Finance has signed off on it. We are wasting our time. There is no point in discussing it or having the officials listen to our concerns.

Mr. Colm Breslin

Chairman——

Sorry, Mr. Breslin, I am not finished yet. This is a very important issue. We either operate a democratic system or we do not. If the Department of Finance and the Financial Regulator are more concerned about the concerns of the banking interests than about——

I advise Deputy Barrett that the proposal has been agreed at the Council, the committee's amendments are now awaited and the Czech Presidency is hopeful of a First Reading agreement with the European Parliament before the end of this parliamentary term.

Chairman, you received an information note just as I did.

The matter has not been finalised.

If you read it you will see that the rapporteur for the European Parliament proposes amendments to the Commission proposal in several areas.

I want to clarify the matter. According to the information I have the matter has not been finalised. Will Mr. Breslin clarify that?

Mr. Colm Breslin

I will. Essentially the ECOFIN Council said on 2 December that it was satisfied with the proposal as it stood at that time. I explained that it is not yet completed on the parliamentary side.

The European Parliament?

Mr. Colm Breslin

Yes.

I am talking about this Parliament.

Mr. Colm Breslin

I meant the European Parliament.

Unfortunately, I am not a member of the European Parliament. I am talking about this Parliament.

Mr. Colm Breslin

When the European Parliament settles its position, it then must be finalised by negotiations between the Parliament, the Council and so on. I expect it will go back to the Council of Ministers in which Ireland is represented by our Minister, and there will be an opportunity there for Ireland to have a further input about any concerns it has at that stage.

I would also like to clarify that whenever any proposal dealing with any area of financial services arrives on our desk from Europe, apart from its referral to the Oireachtas committee, we attempt to liaise with whatever stakeholders are out there. These may be official industry bodies, or other bodies which could include consumers, depending on the nature of the proposal. We try to identify stakeholders in Ireland who would have an input and consult with them to get a view outside of the bureaucratic civil service view or the Regulator view to see what other concerns people might have. It is not just a question of going out there to represent industry. We take advice from various sources and, like anybody taking advice, one is free to accept or reject that advice.

Does the Department of Finance take advice from this committee. This was referred to us by the Committee on European Scrutiny for examination. I came here today, as I am sure my colleagues did, thinking that this was a process and that any views, concerns or suggestions expressed here would be taken on board by Mr. Breslin, reported back to the Minister and, in turn, a decision made as to whether those should be carried forward into the discussions. None of that happened.

We can make a submission to the Minister.

The Minister has signed off on this proposal.

No. We can make recommendations to the Minister.

This is a waste of time on an issue that concerns the Parliament which is to have a special debate tomorrow. There is a Private Notice Question on it at the moment. The whole area of regulation of banks and financial institutions is of massive concern at the moment because the same institutions have this country on its knees. Here we have an opportunity to have an input into changes that should be made to stop some of these crooks from continuing in operation here. It is a scandal that we are not using this opportunity to make these changes.

It is open to this committee to make recommendations to the Minister.

It is all over.

It is not all over. We can make a recommendation.

I welcome the representatives from the Financial Regulator and the Department. There is no doubt that a capital requirement directive is essential. I remember Big Bang in London. The huge lack of regulation of financial instruments and financial markets created a situation similar to the one of which Captains Teach, or Blackbeard, and Kidd operated in the Caribbean. We are now feeling the effects of it. It is, nonetheless, very welcome and very necessary to get the capital ratios right, to have the review process and market discipline. I am very conscious of the difficulties Iceland had because its banks invested so much in foreign instruments which have gone south and created major difficulties. If we had strong regulation this might not have happened. However, the past is a different place and we are dealing with the current situation.

I recognise that this document is an evolving legislative framework. With the myriad of financial instruments available, including CFDs and mezzanine financing, it will be very difficult to regulate. I am also conscious that there is a proposal here for a 5% retention on securitisation. We are all aware that with the haircut involved in securitisation the incentive to sell on bad assets will still be there, even at 5%. The original proposal of 15% as outlined in the rapporteur's report would be much closer and much more amenable. As Senator Quinn mentioned, the principle of caveat emptor applies, and everybody who bought bad sub-prime debt has been burned. That will pass and the financial memory is relatively short. I am conscious that President Roosevelt wanted to outlaw merchant and investment banks after 1930. We saw the damage that did to world economies. White collar crime is not a victimless crime. People will lose their jobs. They will be stressed and upset. We need to regulate now, but we must get it right. I recommend that the original proposal of 15% of the securitisation should remain with the bank that sells it forward to ensure that it is not selling bad assets forward and thereafter has no responsibility for them. If one sells a 20 year mortgage and gets the money in for the first year when rates are low, in the normal cycle of events when rates rise after one sells forward one has no responsibility. That was the problem. Responsibility and accountability were lacking.

I strongly welcome the initial stages of regulating the market. It will be difficult because in financing people will always find ways to get around the system. We, therefore, need very tight regulation and we need to keep it right to restore the confidence of the community. I would recommend that original sellers should maintain their interest at 15% for securitisation rather than at 5%.

Are there any further questions?

The note we received states that the rapporteur's report will be considered at a meeting of the Committee on Economic and Regulatory Affairs on 11 February. Almost 300 amendments have been submitted by the European Parliament to the draft report. We have not received one amendment. We are debating something that has already been decided. It is a total and utter scandal.

I thank the officials from the Department of Finance and from the Financial Regulator for attending to give us an explanation of the directive and the changes that have been made to it. If there are any proposals the committee wishes to put to the Minister for Finance it will do so.

There was one proposal from Senator Hanafin. I gather that is the proposal the committee is putting forward, and I am impressed. If 300 proposals are put in for 11 February, which is today, they will surely not be decided upon today. Is it too late to put even that proposal forward for discussion?

It is the European Parliament's decision.

These are recommendations that we can forward to the Minister and refer to the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny, if that is the committee's wish.

If there is no other business I will adjourn the meeting until 12 noon on Tuesday, 17 February when the committee will meet in private with the parliamentary legal adviser for a briefing on compellability legislation.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.10 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 26 February 2009.
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