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JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 17 Dec 2002

Vol. 1 No. 2

Chinese Visa Processing Procedures: Presentation.

I welcome Ms Rosemary Quinn and Mr. Pat Shortt from Marketing English in Ireland and the Recognised English Language Schools' Association. They are concerned about the implications of visa processing procedures in China for Chinese students that has resulted in the virtual closure of that market to Irish schools offering English as a foreign language.

Before we commence the discussion I remind the committee that while members are covered by privilege, those appearing before the committee are not. Ms Quinn and Mr. Pat Shortt may begin the presentation, which will be followed by a question and answer session.

Ms Rosemary Quinn

I thank the committee and the Chairman, Deputy Woods, for allowing Pat Shortt and myself to make this presentation on behalf of the members of Marketing English in Ireland and the Recognised English Language Schools Association, MEI-RELSA. Member schools of MEI-RELSA find themselves in a critical situation regarding visas for Chinese and other students.

RELSA is an organisation representing the majority of recognised EFL centres in Ireland. Its origins were in a representative body of schools which was established in 1970 to bring together the providers of English language and cultural services. Since its inception in 1988, RELSA has been active in a number of areas, including academic standards, student welfare and the promotion of excellence in the EFL industry. More specifically, RELSA has been instrumental in bringing about a review of the upgrading of the national system for inspection and recognition of schools. This system is administered by the Department of Education and Science and operates under the aegis of the Advisory Council for English Language Schools, ACELS. RELSA is represented by three members on this board. By working closely with the Department and ACELS, RELSA is helping to ensure the continued improvement of academic standards in the EFL area.

Marketing English in Ireland Limited was established in 1993 with the assistance of Bord Fáilte to promote and market English language services abroad. MEI has 53 members, all of which are recognised by the Department of Education and Science. There was a considerable overlap in membership of the two organisations and as a result they were merged. MEI-RELSA now represents 53 operators with 108 centres throughout Ireland. MEI-RELSA members handle approximately 75% of the EFL students who come to Ireland.

According to Bord Fáilte's estimates, a total of 106,000 EFL students came to Ireland in 1996. In recent years there has been a steady increase and the total estimate of students in 2001 was 176,000, generating an estimated income of €319 million.

Industry growth for the past three years is highlighted by the increasing number of full-time staff employed by EFL schools. In 1999 more than 80% of schools employed approximately 20 full-time staff. With a growth rate of 20% per year since then, it is now estimated that the majority of schools employ an average of 35 full-time staff per school. This does not take into consideration the number of staff employed in the peak summer season. EFL schools have increased their turnover substantially. In 1997 an industry survey showed that only 17% had revenues in excess of £1 million. Figures for 1998 show an income of €292 million, rising to €319 million in 2001.

This year Bord Fáilte carried out a survey of growth targets by market categories estimating growth from 2003 to 2005. It shows that the estimated number of students in 2005 will be 176,000 and the estimated income from them will be €446 million. The survey shows that there will be 210,000 EFL students per annum coming to Ireland by the end of 2005.

One must also note the numbers at third level last year, based on an IEBI report of the 20 institutions that were covered from the third level colleges. It estimated that €80 million was earned in tuition fees, which represented an increase of €12 million over the previous year. The estimated spending per student is €8,000 per year, adding a further €86,520 million to the annual earnings generated by the sector. These total earnings in the third level sector last year amounted to €167 million.

China, having the largest population in the world, has opened up considerably over the past ten years and has experienced strong economic growth. Figures show that the number of Chinese students pursuing studies abroad over the past decade has increased tenfold. China is the newest of the emerging EFL markets. It is estimated that some 180,000 Chinese students were studying abroad in 1999. Spending on education in China has surpassed expenditure on housing.

One hundred and eighty thousand?

Ms Quinn

Yes. The average spend has been about £15,000 sterling per person per annum. New policies and procedures being implemented by the new immigration officers in Beijing have resulted in the virtual closure of the Chinese EFL market to Irish schools to the advantage of our competitors in the UK, New Zealand, Australia and Canada. This advantage was painfully driven home to our schools at a recent conference in Austria, at which a senior person in the British Council expressed to the chairman of theMEI-RELSA committee, Pat Shortt, her delight at the huge refusal rate at the Irish Embassy in Beijing which was resulting in a significant increase in business to UK schools.

There is a perception that under the new policy, visa applications submitted in 2001 are now being subjected to new criteria, without any notice to applicants by the visa officers who took up their duties in June 2002. As a result, since June of this year, 80% of EFL student visa applications are being refused. The consequences for English language schools are immediately catastrophic. The consequences for third level institutions in October 2003 will be equally catastrophic. Relevant figures are provided in the document entitled "Economic Implications of Current Visa Processing Procedure in Beijing", along with relevant background data regarding the problem facing our organisation and a suggested solution.

We are aware of the extremely difficult task faced by the new visa officers in Beijing and wish to support them in every way. We recommend that the bona fides of agents sending students to Ireland be established, that a smoother working relationship be established between all interested parties and that additional temporary appointments be made in Beijing to deal with the huge backlog.

Russia, Libya and Iran have shown an improvement since 1999. The new visa office in Moscow has helped matters greatly. However, there are problems with the processing system in Dublin for these markets. They could be addressed effectively by increasing the staff numbers temporarily. EFL providers are committed to maintaining the integrity of the immigration policy in Ireland and at the same time supporting all stakeholders in the Irish education market in addressing the major issues referred to in "A Strategy for Long-Term Development of Foreign Earnings in Asia", issued by Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment in 1999.

There are currently 12,000 applications for study visas awaiting processing in the visa office in Beijing. The study application waiting time is now 14 months. Although four new visa officers have been in place since June 2002 and a new visa office was opened in August 2002, the rate of processing all visas is approximately 800 per month. They are currently only dealing with applications made in October 2001. Additional staff are needed to clear the backlog.

As a result of these delays and the extremely high refusal rate, significant losses are now being experienced in English language schools throughout Ireland. These losses constitute full-time teaching jobs and lost tuition fees to MEI/RELSA schools and lost foreign exchange revenues to the Irish economy. They are quantified in the document " Economic Implications of Current Visa Processing Procedure in Beijing".

The United Kingdom, New Zealand and Canada are all increasing their marketing in China. Study visas for language studies for these destinations are all issued in six weeks. A wait of 14 months makes Ireland an unattractive destination for students and one away from which students and agents are now turning in ever increasing numbers.

In addition to the long delays in processing, the visa section has introduced new application requirements concerning the financial and social background of applicants. These new requirements are being applied retrospectively to all outstanding visa applications. As a result, some agents are reporting visa refusal rates of 90 per cent.

Since May 2000, the student intake from China has slowed to a near halt. Schools absolutely accept the study visa system should not be open to abuse. If there are abuses, those who perpetrate them should be pursued with vigour. Irish schools and their Chinese partner agents are anxious to maintain a properly managed intake consistent with visa requirements. It is our legitimate aspiration to encourage as many students as possible to choose Ireland for the quality of its educational facilities. In this we are competing with destinations such as New Zealand, Canada and the UK. All of these destinations are taking active measures to encourage more Chinese students to study there. We now find that obtaining a study visa to Ireland is considerably more difficult than for any competing educational destination. Since students are effectively and administratively prevented from coming here, the result is that fewer students are applying to come to study in Ireland.

Enterprise Ireland, the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and the Department of Foreign Affairs have all actively encouraged English language schools to recruit students from China. On this basis, schools have invested in premises, recruited additional staff and undertaken costly marketing in China. Furthermore, students who applied in good faith to study in Ireland are now in danger of being refused and thereby suffer a negative visa history which will disqualify them from study elsewhere.

In addition to the manifest unfairness to these individuals, there is a broader consideration of damage to Ireland's image as a study destination, a potential tourism destination and a business partner. If Ireland is to significantly disadvantage students who apply to study here, then we will quickly lose our hard-won reputation in China and the advantages will flow to our competitor destinations.

To stem the current losses and pre-empt further ones in terms of jobs and revenue while at the same time preserving the integrity of our immigration policy, MEI/RELSA proposes that the present methodology of assessing visa applications in Beijing he replaced by the previous system for an agreed "transition" period between the old system and a consensual new one; clear guidelines be issued concerning the conditions an applicant must fulfil and the supporting documents required to obtain a study visa for Ireland and that three months notice of the introduction of such guidelines be given to agents in China and schools in Dublin; resources be applied to clear the visa application backlog in Beijing as a matter of urgency; visa application waiting time be reduced to the norm pertaining in other countries such as UK, Canada and New Zealand, that is, six weeks; a speedy, fair and transparent system of appeal should be in place to deal with applications which have been refused; the cultural differences between China and Ireland be taken into consideration, especially with regard to the manner in which Chinese conduct their financial affairs; students applying for a study visa extension must produce an attendance letter from the school who sponsored them - this letter should be signed and stamped by the sponsoring school. It is also proposed that once a fair system of visa processing has been agreed, an official launch of that system should be orchestrated in Beijing at which agents, schools, the ambassador and the immigration officers would be present and would be seen to be working in unison in the promotion of Ireland as a quality educational destination for quality students; the number of staff dealing with other visas in Dublin be increased - even if only temporarily.

Does Mr. Shortt wish to speak or to wait until later?

Mr. Pat Shortt

I will wait.

I thank Ms Quinn for that presentation. I am a little confused by some of the figures and wish to ask a particular question. I was struck recently to find that the worth to the British economy of Taiwanese students studying in Britain is £100 million sterling. I am not aware that any students from Taiwan are studying here even though we have strong business connections with that country and the European Union is about to step up its commercial contact with Taipei.

Specifically on the submission, according to the Department's briefing note to the committee the number of visa applications referred to the Department of Foreign Affairs for decision, mainly students and once-off short-term visitors, has increased in recent years. The briefing states that the 2002 figure was 32,869, a 35% increase over 2000. According to the figures supplied by Ms Quinn, of the 176,000 who came here, 166,000 were from other parts of Europe and presumably did not need the same visa requirement and there were 10,000 from the rest of the world. I presume the other 22,000 mentioned by the Department are students who come here not specifically to learn English but to study other subjects. I am merely trying to reconcile the figures. Are the figures correct? I presume the 32,000, for whom the Department says it gave approval, includes a larger number than the 10,000 mentioned.

Given that it takes six weeks to get approval for Britain, New Zealand and other places and 14 months for Ireland, could it be that those applying to come to Ireland have already been turned down for Britain? In other words, are we getting the left-overs and the more risky end of the market?

I am disposed to what the deputation has said. Where there are opportunities in the market we should seek them. Britain does not seem to have any difficulty in seeking them despite the fact that there is a common travel area between here and Britain. Would the delegation accept that probably the largest illegal immigrant population in Ireland is Chinese and that we do not hear much from them because they are housed and employed by some of their own. It appears to be a good thing on the face of it, but the difficulty that can arise is that the person who employs them can threaten them if they do not do what he or she wants them to do. We are inexperienced at dealing with large numbers of Chinese. Is there a real and specific Chinese illegal immigration problem? Does the Department have a reasonable case to be cautious perhaps because we are getting people whom Britain has already turned down and they are coming here as a secondary source?

Mr. Shortt

On the first question, the figures we have from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on approvals from China are as follows: in 1999 there were only 1,843; in 2000, 4,089; and in 2001, 5,644. They are the official figures from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on approvals from mainland China.

The others are visa applications referred.

Mr. Shortt

On the other point about people coming here who have been refused in the United Kingdom, in the case of 90% of the Chinese students who come to Ireland, it is their first time outside of China and the first time they have ever applied for a visa to study abroad. There were occasions on which Chinese students applied for visas to come to Ireland, but it was written in their passports that they had been refused entry to the United Kingdom and when they arrived in Dublin, they were refused entry into Ireland. It is a little unfair, therefore, to suggest that——

I am not suggesting; I am asking you questions. Please do not attribute suggestions to me.

Mr. Shortt

It might be suggested by people outside of this room that the quality of the Chinese students coming to Ireland is somewhat inferior to those going to the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, South Africa and New Zealand. We do not believe that is the case.

When I was a Minister, I attended some meetings in the English language universities and schools in China. I had to go out, meet students and their parents, bring them together, make arrangements and then follow up the applications. I cannot tell what happens all around. Obviously, there will be illegal attempts to come here, something both the industry here and the Departments of Foreign Affairs and Justice, Equality and Law Reform have to deal with. There is no question about this.

To pursue Deputy Mitchell's question, would we have any idea why Britain refused those particular applicants? We would not. Would the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform know the reason because it is an interesting point?

Mr. Shortt

The number of applicants coming here who were refused by the United Kingdom is very small. The UK representatives are currently in China. Through the British Consul they are actively travelling throughout China encouraging people to study in the United Kingdom. There is also an initiative from Mr. Blair - the Prime Minister's initiative - to encourage more people to come and study in the United Kingdom. According to our agents in China, we are tending to go in the opposite direction and put up barriers. We are not here today to criticise. What we would like to do——

Get a solution.

Mr. Shortt

——is get a solution and the assistance of the committee to create a high-powered committee in which all of the stakeholders in our education system would play a major part. We could then sit down and design a standardised objective system of visa application for students which will keep the EFL industry here, the third level sector and the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Foreign Affairs and Enterprise, Trade and Employment happy. That is all we want.

Another feature is that a good proportion of those who come here to learn English attend university courses subsequently. They make a connection here as distinct from making a connection in one of the other countries.

It is a small point, but the desire to follow a nine point course of action is very reasonable if a solution can be found. The students who transfer to third level are paying an outrageously large fee, but that is an issue for another day.

Mr. Shortt

It shows how much it costs.

I have a view on that, too. I am interested in knowing how many such schools have opened in China.

Ms Quinn

One was International House which had its premises in Griffith College, but it was not a success. It pulled out about six months ago and returned to China. We are continuously asked to enter joint ventures in China, but it is still a market in which we are learning and we need to be sure of the way we are handling Chinese students coming here before we invest in China. The British schools are getting an amount of assistance to open up in China where a number have already opened up.

I have to state an interest here because my twin sons taught English as a foreign language in China last year for over six months.

A vested interest. The Deputy must have a good deal of knowledge of the area.

I was interested in the question of the reason people were not opening in China. Ms Quinn has answered it. I got the impression also that people started studying English in China before they came here. I understood there was an examination at the Chinese end before one could apply to leave. Is that right?

Ms Quinn

The visa regulation is that they must have completed their final year in high school. We cannot accept people who are in the equivalent of our fifth year. They must have completed their high school education and have a reason for coming to Ireland to study English or have completed their degree. They are coming here to further their learning of English in order that they can go back to the job market. If they are half way through their university education, they must be going on to further education here.

Mr. Shortt

There is not an English examination.

Ms Quinn

No.

I am very impressed by what I hear being proposed by Mr. Shortt and Ms Quinn. I have read through the briefing documentation we received from the Departments, though not in detail, and they appear to be concerned. I have had a fair amount of engagement with some Chinese students in my constituency, for what reason I do not know, and they are generally highly educated. I would say they come from the public sector, but I have been impressed by the quality of the students and their desire to learn the language. I have come across a number, however, who for a variety of reasons, as is suggested in the briefing document from the Department, have overstayed their welcome. Some of my time would have been spent trying to persuade the powers that be to regularise matters, although without any success and for very good reasons. Is there much evidence of abuse by these students of the common travel area between Ireland and the United Kingdom? I suspect, unfortunately, that there is quite a degree of abuse of these students by employers, both Irish and some of their own ethnic community. Those are my concerns, but what is being proposed is a desirable course of action, something we should try to pursue. There are many comments I could make about Departments, but they normally do not put their foot down so drastically without good evidence.

Ms Quinn

That is one of the reasons we included recommendation No. 7 because if students do not attend the course having paid for it, we can take particular steps. To explain this further, at the end of their six months course, in order to extend their visa they must get a letter of attendance from the school which sponsored them initially. If they are not bona fide students, they are able to buy the letter from particularly unsavoury elements in Dublin. That is not to say they have to come back to either of our schools for their course, but the letter of attendance must be from the school which initially sponsored them to come to Ireland. It should be a Department of Education and Science recognised school.

That would tie us in to recognised schools.

I want to pursue that aspect further. With what vigour and rigour do schools pursue students who do not attend regularly? As far as I am concerned, any school which sets up here is reputable, but there appears to be some evidence that students avoid regular attendance at school, come back when their time is up and attempt to extend their visas. I do not know if that practice is extensive, but there is some evidence of abuse. I am not suggesting that any school is colluding in that abuse, but rigorous best practice must be put in place.

Ms Quinn

We agree.

Mr. Shortt

Unfortunately, over the past three or four years a number of schools have been set up by Chinese nationals. They are not registered or recognised and it is difficult to police them. The purpose of our suggestion for a high-powered committee is to take all these difficulties into consideration and to come up with a strategy to address them.

I support the proposal. As regards students who undertake further studies after studying English, does that apply to the entire country or is it a Dublin phenomenon? Dublin was mentioned a lot in the presentation. Are there schools throughout the country? Do students go to colleges in parts of the country other than Dublin?

Ms Quinn

There are schools throughout the country, but the Chinese students attend Waterford Institute of Technology, Carlow Institute of Technology which caters for 400, Athlone Institute of Technology and the Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology. When they finish their English language courses in Dublin, they go to Carlow, Waterford, Athlone or somewhere else. Many of the students who go to Dublin stay there. There are some students in Trinity College, in UCD and in the private third level colleges. The big year-round schools tend to be in Dublin, Waterford, Cork, Limerick and Galway.

We have run out of time. I thank Ms Quinn and Mr. Shortt for making their presentations. We will raise these matters with the relevant Departments. We received some information from them shortly before we started and will consider how we might expand on what was said today. We understand most of it. I thank Ms Quinn and Mr. Shortt for clearly outlining the situation. It is an important economic area in which Ireland has a great reputation. It is a coincidence that on the Dáil Order Paper today there is a motion on the agreement on education co-operation between the Government of Ireland and the Government of the People's Republic of China. That will be taken shortly in the House. Another motion on the Order Paper relates to the agreement on education co-operation between the Government of Ireland and the Government of Malaysia. Those agreements have been signed by the two Governments, but the Oireachtas must approve them. We will contact the delegation when we discuss the issues further with the Departments of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Education and Science and Foreign Affairs.

Ms Quinn

I thank you, Chairman, and the committee for your attention and time.

I want to inform the committee that both Deputy Gay Mitchell and I are involved in Dáil priority questions at 3.15 p.m.

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