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JOINT COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS díospóireacht -
Thursday, 1 Apr 2004

Visit of Macedonian Parliamentary Delegation.

It gives me great pleasure to welcome our friends, the delegation from the Foreign Affairs Policy Committee of the Parliament of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, or Macedonia as we now call it. The delegation is led by the chairperson, Mrs. Teuta Arifi, and she is accompanied by Mrs. Karolina Ristova, who is also president of the European Affairs Committee, Mrs. Vesna Borozan and Mr. Slobodan Chasule. The delegation is accompanied by embassy officials Ms Lila Trpkovska and Mr. Milan Spiridonovski.

This is a very special day because the stabilisation and agreement association agreement has entered into force today. Many people outside may not recognise the importance of that agreement but it is a major step towards membership of the European Union. It enters into force today so this is an historic day.

Members will be aware that Macedonia presented an application for EU membership to the Taoiseach, who is President of the European Council, on 22 March. The presentation was originally scheduled to take place in Dublin on 26 February, but the tragic death of Macedonian President, Mr. Boris Trajkovski, in a plane crash led to the event being postponed. The President's death is deeply felt by the people of Macedonia. He had a vision of a stable, united, multi-ethnic Macedonia moving closer to European integration. We recall his courage and example in pursuing reconciliation in a divided society.

The next step for Macedonia's application is for Ireland, as holder of the Presidency, to bring the application to the Council, probably in May. The Council is likely to refer the application to the Commission for its formal opinion, as in the case of the Croatian application last year.

Perhaps the chairman would like to introduce the members of the committee and to indicate the committee's areas of interest and we can then have discussions. I know you have signalled a wide range of issues which you are interested in and which you wish to discuss, and I look forward to a stimulating discussion. We will have more time afterwards at lunch.

Mrs. Teuta Arifi

Thank you. I express my appreciation for this opportunity to meet and discuss the issues relating to mutual co-operation. I will introduce the members of the delegation. I am accompanied by Mr. Slobodan Chasule of the New Democracy Party, which is now in Opposition. He is a former Macedonian Minister for Foreign Affairs. Next to him is Ms Vesna Borozan of the Social Democratic Union, the same party as Mrs. Karolina Ristova, chairperson of our European Affairs Committee. Our interpreter, Mr. Milovan Takov, is also present, as are administrative staff.

Deputy Mitchell had to leave as he is Chairman of the European affairs committee, which has a meeting.

Mrs. Arifi

Thank you. I will give some information about the situation in the country and the work of our committee.

After the tragic death of President Trajkovski, the Parliament is not in session because we are campaigning. One of the main issues we are concentrating on is the full realisation and implementation of the Ohrid framework agreement. This was mentioned in the final document issued by the EU summit at Thessaloníki as one of the important conditions Macedonia must fulfil - full implementation of the Ohrid framework agreement. Our Parliament has been quite effective in passing the laws which are related to implementation of this agreement, particularly laws which allow the use of the Albanian language in state-financed higher education, citizenship laws and laws which regulate the use of non-Macedonian or Albanian languages in different institutions.

After the presidential elections it is expected that the Parliament will pass legislation governing decentralisation, which is very important for two reasons. It is related to important points of the framework agreement and it also relates to the democratisation and development of the country.

In general the Republic of Macedonia has an important role in the development of regional co-operation. As a parliament, we have been taking different initiatives for regional co-operation. We have been initiating, as a commission for foreign affairs for the last year, co-operation between the commission for foreign affairs of Albania and Macedonia and Croatia related to the Adriatic Charter, as one of the important refugee goals concerning joining NATO. I followed the initiative of the commission for foreign affairs of my country. We are hosting a conference related to corridor aid. It is a corridor of transportation east and west between the commissions for foreign affairs of Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania, Turkey, Greece and Italy.

The main activities in our country go in two directions. The first is related to the stabilisation of the country. The stabilisation process is a common goal of all political partiesbecause stabilisation is one of the main preconditions for joining the European Union. In general, I wish to underline the equitable representation and the reforms which are ongoing in the police and the army. The reforms in the police and the army are running in parallel. Equitable representation is one of the main principles of the framework agreement, meaning the inclusion into the state administration of non-majority communities. This is moving fast especially in the army and the police force. According to the action plan for joining NATO, those procedures are given a high priority.

This is a very special day, the day of entering into force of the stabilisation agreement. It appears that many of our historic and important days are related to your country. We are sharing together the entering into force of the association agreement when we are here today. We presented the application in Dublin because you hold the EU Presidency. There are so many things that are helping to build up a special relationship between our two countries. One of the things we would like to have for the future is co-operation concerning the possibility of getting as much as possible of your model of development of your country, especially the economic development which is an example of how small countries can develop if they reach a common consensus.

This group is made up of representatives of different political parties. We are representative of different ethnic groups of ethnic Macedonians and ethnic Albanians. We also belong to different religions. However, our common goal is clear; that is to become a member of the European Union. It is clear to us and to our voters that the only perspective for all of us is to look in the direction of development and to leave in the past all the misunderstandings and conflicts which have to belong to history. That is not easy. It is not easy to transform a country which has survived a conflict into a country which is oriented towards the future. It is not easy to transform our mentality from one of conflict to the idea of integration. However, our voters deserve the European perspective. As a result of that we are here together to seek your support for enhancing and developing bilateral co-operation between our committees and our Governments. We would like to follow the European path. We will succeed if we do it together. The longer ways are shorter if we proceed together with friends. We are here to ask you to be our friends in the long journey we have to make. These are my opening remarks. My colleagues may wish to add something later.

There are a number of issues to be discussed. First and foremost we want to co-operate with the delegation in any way we can, to be of assistance and to ensure our officials and our experts are in communication with yours. I am aware that you have been working with some people in our semi-State bodies and that you are planning to set up a group as we did in the Shannon airport zone. That was an Irish idea in the first instance and it took off. We will be happy to co-operate with you in that regard.

Some of the members of the committee may wish to contribute. Deputy Michael D. Higgins of the Labour Party and Senator Paul Bradford of the Fine Gael Party are members of the Opposition. Senator Michael Kitt is Chairman of our sub-committee on development aid. The other three members, including Senator Mary O'Rourke, are Fianna Fáil members of the Government. An Independent member, Senator Norris, was present earlier but had to leave as he had to speak on the issue of alcohol in the Seanad.

I join the Chairm an in welcoming the delegation. On a recent visit to Lisbon we stayed in the same hotel as the late President. I offer my sincere sympathy on his loss and I wish the delegation well in all its forthcoming consultations with the public, the elections and so on.

I am interested in a small personal point, namely, a difference that is noted in the African countries and the European Union as to the large number of academics in these countries compared to Ireland. It is a similarity that exists between these countries and some Latin American countries. I was a sociologist in another life but I do not think we have ever had so much philology represented at the committee before, which I consider to be a good thing. This is not to diminish electrical engineering entirely.

I want to make a few points that interest me. I have asked questions of delegations from other countries also. I would be interested in the delegation's opinion on what I regard as a difficulty, that is, the balance of social protection, on the one hand, and meeting the requirements of the framework agreement, on the other. Almost every delegation which has come to us from accession and applicant countries to the European Union has conceded that the demands of transition to a market economy unmediated, with considerable reductions in social protection, have created difficulties for them. I recall a previous delegation from a country which was on the verge of a strike with its health workers and teachers, particularly in respect of pensions, social security, housing, conditions of work and so forth. It strikes me that one of the most impressive aspects of the delegation's introduction, and of what I have come to know, is its efforts in balancing different communities, either ethnic, cultural or linguistic.

On the circumstance of trying to achieve some semblance of social protection, on the one hand, and meet the requirements of the framework agreement, on the other, my own position is that the price exacted in the framework agreements in a number of countries was too high and insensitive to the social protection structures in place. They are particularly dangerous in trying to achieve a balance among ethnic communities, in other words, the problems flowing from them feed into a circumstance that makes matters more difficult. That is one point.

The other relates the situation regarding the region. I suggest, looking at it from outside, that the achievement of balances between the different ethnic and cultural communities is nothing new for the region. There is an experience that in the best times people have been able to achieve considerable balance. It is not a new project. It is a new phase of an existing project but that is an outsider's view.

What would have to concern any of us who are serious about foreign affairs is the ongoing problem in Kosova. I was Minister with responsibility for culture in a previous Government between 1993 and 1997. One tends to concentrate on one's own Department and Ministry but what I remember of that period is attending meetings in Brussels and seeing representatives of different communities in Kosova protesting outside the gates of meeting places. That issue was comprehensively neglected by the European Union. The issues were not considered as a consequence of neglect and the talks in the United States. That memory of the early 1990s stays with me, and the most recent events have caused me the greatest concern. Somebody said the Government of the Republic of Macedonia had acted with restraint in the most recent events but I would be interested in the delegation's opinion on its relationship, as it sees it, in the future, particularly with the Albanian community in Kosova.

I welcome the delegation. We are most happy to see its members, as we were in our Chamber. When I spoke in reply to Senators I had intended to comment that it was good to see so many female members in the delegation. They could teach us a lesson or two here.

I join Deputy Higgins in expressing sympathy to the delegation members on the dreadful death of their late President. I am aware elections will take place on 14 April, which does not leave much time for campaigning; it is a wonder they are not out on the hustings. I do not know if presidential elections are carried out in a vivid way but I am sure that is the case.

Reading the material and, in a general sense, about the members' country, it appears they have made strong efforts to make their country viable and help it overcome the various ethnic difficulties and challenges it has faced and will continue to face. In particular, the way it adhered to the Ohrid agreement is laudable because I am sure it involves many concessions, with people thinking about the other side, how they operate and what they can do. It strikes me that their efforts to join the European Union - I am aware that our Prime Minister accepted their formal signed application - and be part of the new Europe would have lent a coherence and legitimacy to all of the difficulties they have to overcome. That strong feeling is evident because the delegation is representative of different political parties. I take from this, therefore, that there is a consensus within the country on the need to shape itself to become part of the new Europe. That in itself must lend coherence to the various matters it has to address, which is appropriate because any country needs goals and objectives and needs to look forward in terms of what it can do. It appears there is cross-party interest in doing this; if I am wrong, I am open to correction.

Both culturally and historically Macedonia has a great past and a great future. There is not a person in Ireland who does not know about Macedonia from his or her school days, biblical studies and various other matters. The name Macedonia is very well known here and very well respected.

I am glad to be part of the committee meeting the delegation today and if I leave, it is because I have to go elsewhere to speak, not on drinking but on too much drinking. Let me be clear. We are not against drinking; we are against too much drinking.

On the subject of drinking——

No, it is on the subject of over-drinking. However, when I leave, it is not because I wish to do so but because I must.

I am sure the delegation members do not need me to tell them that there will be major difficulties and political challenges to be overcome as they move towards integration as often the consensus might be strained in the need to make political points about issues in their country. Be that as it may, they have embarked on an odyssey and I wish them success on that journey. May I be excused, Chairman?

Yes. Will the Senator be able to join us later?

Senator O'Rourke will be joining us for lunch.

Like my colleagues, I extend a very warm welcome to the delegation from Macedonia. This is an interesting, challenging and exciting time for the delegates' country. The European Union covers a large area and I am sure there is a great anxiety and fear among ordinary members of the community about joining it. Our people had similar concerns before we joined. As a small nation, we were concerned about how we would fare in the Union but membership has been good for Ireland, as I am sure it will for the delegates' country. Accession offers Macedonia opportunities for economic development and trade links which I note from the material presented are currently limited.

The delegates will have our full support on the accession of Macedonia to the European Union which I am sure the Taoiseach outlined in detail when he met their President recently at the signing of the accession treaty. Ireland will be supportive of their country. We share a common interest in many issues that affect us both. It is up to the leaders and politicians in Macedonia to reassure those who have concerns about joining the Union that accession will present opportunities and challenges for their country. Difficult decisions will have to be made but, overall, membership has been good for Ireland, as I am sure it will for Macedonia.

I will leave not repeat some of the points made by my colleagues. The delegates are welcome and we look forward to working with them in the future.

I welcome the delegates and reiterate the words of sympathy expressed by colleagues on the tragic death of their President.

I listened with interest to the chairperson's presentation and have read the documentation. I also listened with interest to my colleague, Deputy Michael Higgins. I am not sure whether it was sociology or socialism breaking out in him but he posed an interesting question about the economic or social cost in Macedonia attempting to seel membership of the European Union. This question was posed to previous delegations.

The chairperson of the delegation has said its members wear various political hats in that they are members of various political parties. Apart from the desire of the political system and political parties within their country to meet these economic and social costs in the short term in joining the European Union, will the chairperson indicate the view of voters in her country on this issue? Is there the same degree of desire among members of the public to take these steps and suffer such short-term costs, difficulties and problems? She might give an overview. I am aware that a referendum will be held at which time the people will speak but are the politicians running ahead of or in tandem with the wishes of the people?

With regard to the proposals relating to the delegates' country joining NATO, I have no great political difficulty with that organisation. Having met various delegations, particularly from eastern Europe - a region politically removed from the centre of NATO during the years - it appears that the majority of countries which wish to join the European Union feel obliged to almost simultaneously apply to join NATO. What is the current political thinking in the chairp erson's country on this issue?

With regard to the political system and the development of political parties in the delegates' country, the chairperson might indicate the expected turnout in the forthcoming referendum. How is the political party system developing? Is it developing solely on ethnic or ideological lines?

I join in the welcome extended to our colleagues from Macedonia, a country which had a good soccer team in the past as the Irish soccer team discovered some years ago. I also join in the expressions of sympathy on the death of its President.

I refer to an issue Deputy Michael Higgins raised in regard to Kosovo and the security issues and factors that lead to instability, an issue on which the chairperson might give us her view. I note the reference to decentralisation in the documentation, an issue currently very much to the fore here. In our case we are talking about a further programme. In regard to the Macedonia's proposals on decentralisation and local government, how does the chairperson's foresee this policy unfolding in the months and years ahead?

I call Mr. Chashule, as we should hear from a male member of the delegation.

Mr. Slobodan Chashule

I am proud to be in such magnificent company, among the members of this committee but even more so the members of the delegation who represent my country. They are a beautiful and highly educated group. We all belong some way or other to the academic world.

On a personal note, I am grateful to be here. This is a day for rejoicing for me because I was part of a team which negotiated the stabilisation and association agreement which comes into full force today. I am proud to share this historic moment. Furthermore, I am enormously content to be here as the event that follows our application to join the European Union for two important reasons. We have been two great countries and nations which have been fountains of culture for the rest of Europe. We are now converging. As much as we share these values, it could also be said that we share problems. We believe that with Ireland's support and following its example we can share the solutions to them.

I am grateful for the questions raised, which I consider crucial, not only for our country but also for the European Union, of which we strive to be part. As a result of membership, the people of Ireland are living in plenitude. The security of the Union depends on a solution been reached in respect of two particular issues on the Balkans peninsula, the most important of which is the social aspect of what is happening, being the sole generator of most of our problems. The other important issue is the environment of poverty in which one of the worst evils of mankind in the new millennium, organised crime, nurtures itself.

Everything from there up to local and regional problems is generated by a lack of a parliamentary system for some. Their servitude to a grey or even a black economy puts them in a situation where they have no choice and they become captives of organised crime and involved in extremism. When one has nothing to lose, one runs behind people on white horses carrying flying banners. This has led us, as Europeans - we have a vast history - into tragedies, the consequences of which we have spent a great deal of time over generations trying to mend.

There is a high cost on the social side of this process for our state and society with the coming together of two different cultures and two different ethnic groups. Kosovo represents a delicate issue that has to be dealt with before it becomes an insurmountable problem that will drain much of the energy the European Union needs to achieve its goal, stipulated during the Spanish Presidency, of becoming one of the most propulsive economic and political blocs in the world by 2020.

We have paid the cost of poverty. Whatever we have to pay now is an investment in prosperity. We know that in some cases things will get worse before they get better. We have to deal with the fact that poverty generates or gives political and economic space for adverse forces. We will deal with this with everything we have but one of the goals in achieving the status of full membership of the European Union is to try to convince it that by sharing the solution, not the problem, the Union can invest in its own stability and security.

We are faced with a very curious structure in the EU enlargement. In our part of the world, Austria, Slovenia, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Italy are part of this great family, a family which has those standards by which we would like our citizens to live. Whatever we are doing, we are doing for our citizens. Looking at this architecture, however, one sees a problematic region in the middle called the western Balkans in which, unfortunately, we are situated. One can attempt to circumvent it and pretend to establish a unified Union with deep values, because after enlargement, the Union will dedicate much energy to giving more cohesive substance to this enlargement but one cannot build a house of prosperity around a black hole which will eventually and undoubtedly drain its political, economic and security resources.

Yes, we will pay the price for our accession, our framework agreement and the stabilisation and association agreement we have which starts today with the European Union. However, this is where the Union must come together and share part of the solution. What we are doing, as politicians and as a state, is for our citizens to give them a life of European standard. We will, therefore, become like the European Union even without being a member, if I can express it that way. However, from the Union's point of view it would also be an investment in its own stability and prosperity if it helps us along the way like it has helped others, not by having us on the receiving side but by having us integrated and owners of the responsibility which we have, not only to our citizens but also to the common values and Community of which we want to become part.

This is where NATO becomes instrumental for us, if not for Ireland. I understand the viewpoint of many politicians in this great country. However, we have a problem which Ireland does not. Therefore, we need that structure to help us establish a system of solidarity in security terms. It is not a military alliance per se with a great deal of muscle but a system of solidarity in which we will all contribute. Let me put it bluntly. In order to make our region prosperous, we must deal not only with poverty but also insecurity and instability. Believe me, it is much more effective to have us in the European Union or NATO rather than to have the Union and NATO in us. What am I trying to say? Keeping troops and upholding police and other military missions in the region will not solve the problem, it will simply push it under the carpet or hide it. Once everything is back in place or the situation reaches the optimum level where the Union or NATO is not capable or does not want to invest more in such support of our security and stability and the police and troops retreat, the old problems, if they are not mended where they are generated, will explode again in our faces. What will we have done? We will have kept the problems in the region under control and built a consolidated Union around it. Believing the problem has been solved even though it has not, the Union will retreat and the problem will explode again, this time in the centre of an enlarged Union.

Our pretension to join the Union, therefore, is not only selfish or oriented to solving our deep problems which, as the committee knows, we have managed to live with and tried to make the best of. We have implemented whatever we agreed. Our country will probably enter the history of our Continent as the only nation that has solved an internal conflict which had all the elements of other forces getting involved, ranging from organised crime, to mercenaries and highly motivated people. However, we did solve it before it became a civil war. We solved it within our political system with the assistance of NATO and the European Union. We solved it through political means. Today, we sit before this committee as members of parliament who have sworn allegiance to the constitution. The framework agreement is part of this process of consolidation. We know how to deal with things. What we need now, as Ireland needed when it entered the Union, is to share the values in order to be capable of contributing more. Yes, the cost will be tremendous but it will be short term and the profit will come later. The profit will be to our and Europe's benefit.

The concern would be that your people would share your views. One of the concerns which Deputy Michael D. Higgins has is that the social balance is maintained while market development is in progress. These are things which we experienced also. Therefore, we can remain in communication in that regard.

Mrs. Arifi

I will address some inquiries made by members of the committee about Kosovo and decentralisation, which are concrete issues. Another concrete issue is the ethnic lines of political parties.

With regard to Kosovo, it is more than clear that our region is not stable. It is not stable because there are status issues which are still open in some parts of the region. For us - we more or less agree on this - it is important that we have stability in the region. That is the main interest of all citizens of Macedonia. In the past we endured very hard times that divided the country on ethnic lines concerning the status of Kosovo. As a result, we and other politicians say that what we would like to see is a reflection of stability which has to be done by the citizens and the international community.

With regard to political life in our country, there is an ethnic line in the political organisation. The political parties are mainly ethnically organised and sometimes the ethnic connection is stronger than the ideological connection. That is the reality. Within the ethnic Macedonian community, the majority community, there are left and right wings, as there are within the Albanian community. An important tradition, of which the committee might be aware, is that since 1992, all governments formed in the republic of Macedonia have been coalition governments composed of political parties from the two main ethnic groups. This is maintaining stability in the country. This is the formula by which we politically function and organise the country. Perhaps in the future it will be possible to move beyond the ethnic lines and make the economic issues more attractive. For now, however, we are operating by the current formula.

I will end with the point that was made about social cost. The country has problems. It is underdeveloped, it lacks investment and approximately 400,000 people are without work. Those economic pressures, combined with an unstable region and sensitive interethnic relations, makes the political elite responsible and we are aware of that responsibility. One does not have another choice apart from working along three parallel tracks. Stabilisation is crucial to the maintenance of the region. Accession to NATO and the European Union is a complementary interest for us. We need stability and development. Those two concepts cannot be divided. In the second track we must work to reform, particularly the legal system which is not giving enough guarantees for investment. We must work together with different international support. Those are some of the issues I wish to raise.

Mrs. Karolina Ristova

I thank the committee for listening to us today. I hope the members do not mind if I speak in Macedonian so they can hear the language.

We are joined by Deputy Carey, who is the vice-chairman of the committee.

Mrs. Ristova

Most of the questions asked have already been answered but I will make a few comments. It will sound familiar when I mention our political party system and how it functions. It is unstable and fragmented. The only two political parties that were present and played a major role during the period of transition were VRMO and SDSM. That is probably a reflection of the transition we are going through and the fact that we are a young democracy. However, it is good that the political party system is showing signs of stabilisation.

As regards the political system in our country, another good trend of stabilisation is felt in the Albanian political bloc. It is also important that in all the Government coalitions we have always had the dominant parties of the Macedonian and Albanian communities. The Albanian community is the second largest community. The other good thing is that it will also go towards the framework agreement. The Macedonian ethnic community is the biggest, while the Albanian ethnic community is one third the size of the Macedonian community. There are also other small ethnic groups which always complain that they are being neglected. They also have political parties formed on ethnic lines. It is good that in this governing coalition the Social Democratic Union in the pre-election process was formed like an umbrella to incorporate the Turks, the Vlach, the Bosniak and the Roma. That is a good trend in the party system.

As regards the framework agreement, we form the majority and the Opposition is determined to pay the price we know we must pay. However, we must be honest and say it will cause problems for the citizens in terms of the social cost. We must decrease the number of people employed in state administration, which is the main employer in the country. On the other hand, we must employ new people in the administration in order to have another form of representation. People say on many occasions that the Macedonians, for example, are laying off Macedonians so that Albanians or people from other ethnic groups can be employed. We have a duty to explain that it is in the interests of peace, stability and the multiethnic character of the state. It is positive that more people understand that. A task of the smaller ethnic parties and groups is to explain to the people that the framework agreement is not a one-way, but a two-way street. The parties representing small ethnic groups must try to build public confidence as well as demonstrating their loyalty and obligations to the country. They are on the way to achieving that.

I wish to comment finally on EU membership and the cost the country has to pay, following which my colleague, Mrs. Borozan, will say a few words. The assembly of the Republic of Macedonia has heard increasingly proactive attitudes towards the parliamentary dimension. As has been stated, we recently established a committee on European affairs. The parliament has also adopted the declaration of accession to EU membership, as well as assessing its role in the application process. We will work towards the further political and institutional strengthening of the parliament by, for example, scrutinising the Government's work and, in particular, harmonising domestic legislation with that of the EU.

We are grateful to have had a chance to meet the Chairman of the Committee on European Affairs. We hope to continue our co-operation with this committee.

When we discussed whether we should continue with the application for EU membership, we had several polls - one of which was electronic - in our Parliament. Support for EU membership ranges from 70% to 90%. People are starting to realise how painful the reforms will be. Up until now, they thought only about the good side of EU membership, not that they will have to give up some things they had enjoyed in the past. It is encouraging but at the same time frustrating for people to see that certain neighbouring countries in the region, which are at a similar level of development to Macedonia, are already EU candidate members.

As regards regional co-operation, our parliament will organise a conference of committees on European issues from countries in south-eastern Europe. It is modelled on COSAC as part of the stabilisation process and follows recommendations from the European Parliament.

Mrs. Vesna Borozan

Thank you, Chairman. I realise that I have very little time in which to contribute.

We will have to adjourn shortly but we will be able to continue our discussions over lunch. Please go ahead.

Mrs. Borozan

Thank you for the invitation to visit your beautiful country. I am personally impressed to have found the roots of an old culture here. In that respect, I find similarities with my own country, including the alphabet and orthodox beliefs. I am glad to have this opportunity to address the committee. With your permission, Chairman, I will continue by speaking in the Macedonian language. Macedonia is determined to pursue the goal of European integration and has engaged all its strength and resources towards achieving this goal. As our colleagues have stated, we have many academics in the Macedonian parliament but it is important to have such people because politics is an important business. Politics is a very important matter in Macedonia and that is perhaps because the economy is too weak.

Due to the time constraints, I will get straight to the point: most of the efforts of the Macedonian Government are focused on building up a favourable environment for business in the country. In this respect, we would like to see support from European countries, especially Ireland as it currently holds the EU Presidency and also has experience of rapid economic development.

I will give some brief details of the efforts currently under way in Macedonia to develop the economy. Our country is macro-economically stable at the moment. We have very low inflation, at about 1%. We have standby arrangements with the IMF and other international financial institutions. In 2003, the Republic of Macedonia signed an agreement with the World Trade Organisation so we can now compete in global trading. That is the basis for developing the economic environment. In this regard, we propose co-operation between our two countries, through the instruments given by the European Union, twinning programmes and bilateral co-operation between our two parliaments, not only at the level of committees on foreign affairs and European integration but also at the level of committees on economic issues.

Another important issue at this stage of our development is education. Although we have a long tradition, we are preparing for serious reform, especially in higher education, to try to reach the European standards of higher education and science and follow the Bologna process. We would appreciate co-operation in this field, and also at the level of university exchange programmes, at the level of common participation in European projects for researchers for the development of technology to - this is important - to develop a European way of thinking and co-operating.

We are proud of playing a leading role in regional co-operation in the western Balkans, not only in political matters such as fighting organised crime and free trade agreements but also in participating in important regional infrastructural, communication and energy projects.

Mrs. Ristova

Energy issues are Mrs. Borozan's speciality.

Mrs. Borozan

Yes. There is an important project in the region led by the European Commission to establish a regional electricity market in south-east Europe with a final goal of joining the European internal market in energy.

Two Deputies wish to make a short contribution. We must go to lunch over which we will continue the discussion.

I apologise for being late. I was attending a meeting of the Forum on Europe at which the Taoiseach, as President of the European Council, reported to all of the political parties, the social partners and the NGO sector on progress at the spring European Council meeting. Reference was made to the western Balkans and Macedonia's application for membership of the European Union.

I welcome Macedonia's application. I have mentioned to my colleagues on many occasions that it is inevitable that the western Balkans and Macedonia will accede sooner rather than later to EU membership as this is the only way we will bring stability, peace and development to that part of Europe.

Wearing my other hat as a member of the Joint Committee on European Affairs, I believe that we in Ireland have built up expertise in helping candidate and accession countries get over that awful document, acquis communitaire, which I hope will be less complicated for Macedonia than it has been for previous candidate countries. It is possible for us to engage in fruitful dialogue, which I hope will not be too long, to help Macedonia to accede to membership of a stable, peaceful and economically sustainable European Union.

I apologise for my absence. I am a member of another committee, the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, a meeting of which is being held simultaneously.

I welcome the representatives of Macedonia whom I am delighted to see here. There would be mutual advantage in having a teacher exchange programme at second level between our two countries because Ireland's economic success has been largely driven by the education system. Most economic successes are predicated on such a system. I am a former teacher and have participated in teacher exchange programmes with at least seven European countries. We would learn from each other.

I noted in a briefing document that Macedonia's GDP growth rate was 0.7% in 2002 and is estimated to be 2.8% in 2003, a fourfold increase. How is this being achieved?

Perhaps that can be explained over lunch because we were supposed to go at 12.45 p.m. I thank the Macedonian delegation for participating in this discussion which I look forward to continuing over lunch.

The joint committee adjourned at 1 p.m. sine die.
Barr
Roinn