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Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence díospóireacht -
Thursday, 9 Mar 2017

Implications of Brexit for Irish Exports: Irish Exporters Association

In session B we are meeting representatives of the Irish Exporters Association as part of the remit of the committee is trade promotion. I welcome from the association Ms Nicola Byrne, president-elect, and Ms Marie Armstrong, vice president. I thank them for attending to give members of the committee their unique perspective on the potential challenges facing exporters when Britain exits the European Union.

I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or body outside the Houses or an official, either by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

By virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the committee. However, if they are directed by the Chairman to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable.

I invite Ms Byrne to make her opening remarks, after which we can have a question and answer session and a discussion of the relevant issues.

Ms Nicola Byrne

I thank you, Chairman, and members for inviting us to appear before the joint committee. We wish to make a number of key points about the likely impact of Brexit on our members and how the country should prepare. While we can influence the final outcome of the negotiations with the European Union, nonetheless they are ultimately outside our control. However, there are matters within our control which require action now.

We must put in place new shipping and air links with continental Europe and the rest of the world. We must become more cost competitive. We wish to lobby strongly for food and agricultural products and livestock to be high on the European Union's customs free trade agenda. This is in the United Kingdom's interests, as well as ours. We want to ensure companies will consider their entire supply chain and the impact of a UK exit on all of their input costs and start thinking about alternatives. We wish to recognise and attract more foreign direct investment from the United Kingdom and elsewhere for those who wish to retain access to the European Union.

The Irish Exporters Association, IEA, has been running a series of surveys with members to quantify what they believe are the biggest threats to the economy. Some 81% are concerned about Brexit, 63% are concerned about Donald Trump, 59% are concerned about Ireland's cost competitiveness, 47% are concerned about affordable housing, 46% are concerned about elections in Holland, France and Germany, 32% are concerned about the availability of skilled talent, while 7% are concerned about other matters. A total of 94% of IEA members do business with or export to the United Kingdom and 39% of members say more than 25% of their total exports are destined for there. Some 58% are planning to diversify their export markets, up from 54% last year, while 71% said the weakening of sterling had had an impact on their business, up considerably from 65% last year.

On transport links, our members are telling us that we must start looking for alternative physical routes to avoid the use of the UK land bridge and the additional costs that will likely arise if a border is put in place. A significant share of Irish exports are shipped through the UK land bridge, as this is the quickest route to continental Europe. Depending on the terms of the future trade agreement between the United Kingdom and the European Union, Brexit has the capacity to seriously threaten the reliability of this transit route. The agrifood and fisheries sector depends on fast access to markets and intercontinental air hubs. Alternative routes to continental Europe will have to be researched and funded, including upgrading Irish ports. In 2006 Maersk Line introduced a new feeder loop for Irish cargo that linked with Algeciras rather than English Channel or Benelux ports. This saves up to ten days on some routes. Opening new routes could open opportunities for Irish exporters. There are also air freight alternatives. For example, in 2017 the arrival of the IAG Group's major shareholder, Qatar Airways, in Dublin further increases the air freight options for exports to Asian and African markets. More services to and from Irish airports increase the cargo possibilities for Irish trade. We must start work on this now to ensure we will have a route to market and our ports, airports and access to transport will allow us to avoid the United Kingdom without undue delay.

On the matter of cost competitiveness, there is a direct correlation between movement in the euro-sterling exchange rate and the value of goods exported to the United Kingdom. Irish exports to the United Kingdom peak during times of euro weakness. There is also a direct correlation between cost competitiveness and the size of our export market. As we lose competitiveness we run the risk that our exports will become too expensive. If there are tariffs on Irish goods sold in the United Kingdom and we also have to face into the head wind of a VAT-type border tax being introduced in the United States, our two biggest trading markets for our indigenous and FDI companies, the United Kingdom and the United States, will both face huge challenges.

The other costs of doing business in Ireland are continuing to rise. Costs such as labour, insurance, energy, raw materials and rent are all increasing. The increasing costs will impact on our ability to do business and, in some instances, may result in companies going out of business, particularly where margins are low. This is reflected in the feedback we have received from our members in our recent survey. They are concerned about their ability to absorb these higher costs. We recommend a greater focus on reducing our rising cost base driven by wages, personal taxes, currency movements, tariffs and other costs across industry sectors.

Irish exports of food and agricultural products reached record levels in 2016, according to the Central Statistics Office, despite a drop in shipments to Britain. Export values rose by 4% to nearly €117 billion last year, with most sectors enjoying growth in this period. It was the highest annual export value on record.

Exports to the UK increased by 4% while imports from the UK decreased by 8%. At the same time in 2016, the UK incurred its second highest trade surplus of $5.3 billion with Ireland. Consequently, although we may only be fifth in terms of our importance to the UK, we are strongly contributing to its overall trade balance, which increases our importance to the UK market. CSO data show some sectors are heavily dependent on the British market with a number of sectors particularly vulnerable. Britain is not self-sufficient in food and we traditionally make up the balance in beef, dairy and consumer foods. This relationship is somewhat symbiotic, in that Ireland is also the UK's largest destination for food exports worth €3.8 billion in 2015.

The food and agriculture policy that the UK will adopt outside of the EU will determine a lot for Irish agrifood exports. If the UK goes down the road of a "cheap food" policy as it did before it joined the EU 40 years ago, it will have serious implications for the food and agricultural industry in Ireland. There is no doubt the UK is already being approached by non-EU countries eager to do business with it. However, depending on faraway markets to provide food to the UK poses significant risks to the UK as other countries may outbid it in their own desire for food security. The UK could potentially source lesser quality food outside the EU at cheaper rates. In saying that, there are still standards in supermarkets that would need to be maintained. Ireland needs to be thinking five to seven years down the line to remain competitive.

To combat a hard Brexit, many of our members have said that they would be considering sourcing more of their supply needs from the UK, locating more staff in the UK and shifting some production to the UK. This will have serious implications for employment in Ireland, especially low-skilled labour and rural areas dependent on manufacturing. Initially, our members were mainly concerned with the impact of currency fluctuations, which were immediate following the referendum. There has been a definite shift in concern from implications of currency to a serious concern about the reintroduction of customs. Indigenous Irish businesses are woefully unprepared in this regard. Even from an administrative perspective, if a company has only ever exported to the UK, it has never had to deal with customs procedures previously. Realistically speaking, training and upskilling staff should start now, as opposed to waiting until the chaos of implementation. There seems to be a generally held view that it will take the UK years to negotiate the 53 separate trade agreements that it currently accesses as part of the EU. Our understanding is that it will not be as difficult or as drawn out as is expected and that it will be accomplished quite quickly, especially with countries in the Commonwealth. Countries outside the EU, especially the US, China and the UAE, will not benefit from extended trade negotiations and will not want to interrupt a bilateral trade relationship in which they have invested heavily. This will benefit the UK and will likely come at the expense of Ireland. We do not know the outcome of EU negotiations with the UK but we can make an educated guess that it is likely to be closer to the Turkish model of a partial customs-free union than the Swiss model, which requires contributions to the EU budget. There is also a possibility that in addition, the UK may look for import and export quotas, perhaps frozen at current levels, without tariffs.

We should also consider the possibility of having minimum immigration levels set between the UK and Ireland-Europe, particularly when it comes to attracting skilled labour and talent which are not available in Ireland. This could form part of an overall agreement between the UK and the EU along the lines of the Scottish Government's suggestions for the movement of people. We consider that more focus needs to be put on trade between Ireland and the UK. We should not simply focus on the impact of a border with Northern Ireland.

We will also face pressure from the US in the form of tax reforms to attract US multinationals back to the US in terms of future investment decisions, as well as pressure from Europe to share our corporate tax with the rest of Europe. Many of the financial institutions or insurance companies in the UK that are considering setting up operations outside the UK are concerned about having a high Irish cost base combined with a regulatory regime that is considered overly strict in comparison with some of our European counterparts. I note that AIG moved its jobs to Luxembourg yesterday. We are unlikely to gain a significant number of new jobs from the UK in any event from any new offices set up in Ireland in the financial services industry. An expansion of the SARP tax relief, a reduction in high personal tax rates and the introduction of some form of immigration quotas with the UK would all be of assistance, as well as considering how to reduce the level of red tape involved in establishing such businesses in Ireland without a lessening of standards. We consider a new focus needs to be placed by the IDA on attracting FDI from the Middle East, China and India, which are looking for opportunities within Europe, particularly for locations outside of Dublin with good transport links to the airports and ports.

Our recommendations here today are that the Government should identify the UK landbridge as a serious risk to trade and research and invest in alternative, but equally reliable, transit routes. It should focus negotiations more on the east-west trade relationship, research the implications for Ireland if the UK implements a "cheap food" policy and prepare for the impact on SMEs of the reintroduction of customs procedures, including through the upskilling of staff to deal with potential changes. In addition, it should refocus on our cost competitiveness and the costs of doing business in Ireland and look to attract FDI from the UK and elsewhere for those who want to retain access to Europe but to do this we need to look at our cost base. Moreover, it should ensure companies consider their entire supply chain and the impact of a UK exit on all their input costs and start thinking about alternatives and should lobby strongly for food and agricultural products to be high on the EU agenda for free trade, which is in the UK's interest as well as our interest. While Ireland has become less dependent on the UK through increased diversification of its export markets in the past 40 years, the UK is still a very significant trading partner. We have traded with the UK for more than 1,000 years. We will continue to do so but now that trade is going to be different. We thank the committee for the opportunity to present here today and will take any questions from members.

I thank Ms Byrne for her presentation. There is a lot of very good material in it regarding the many issues that must be dealt with in advance of and following Brexit. I am very glad that she highlighted the need for us to develop more transport links with northern Europe and elsewhere because ferry services and cargo services from this country are quite limited. We do not seem to have a value on the amount of exports that leave our country and transit through Great Britain to other destinations, including those within the EU. They leave our island, enter Great Britain, enter another EU destination and then exit the EU to go to another destination. How many checks and control systems will such products have to go through? This must be a worry. I have failed to get figures regarding what level of exports leave our country and transit through Great Britain. It is a huge issue for us and I am very glad Ms Byrne highlighted it.

With regard to food exports and the adoption of a "cheap food" policy of Great Britain, we were the victims of that policy for many years when we had no other market for agricultural products. The EU will quite rightly not agree to dumbing down food standards. The first people who would literally be up in arms against that would be the primary producers - the farmers. The farmers and the State have invested hugely in us having a very sophisticated primary agriculture production system and processing system in which we achieve very high standards. We export food and drink to something like 180 countries because of the very high standards within our food industry. Great Britain is not a large food exporter because it is a large food importer. However, I believe it exported something like £9.9 billion worth of food to the EU in 2016, which represented about 71% of its food and drink exports. It will still want the EU as a market for those products so I presume there is a very good case to be made for not accepting the dumbing down of food standards, which would suit us.

Of the groups that have engaged with us, the association is the first group that has highlighted problems relating to relocation. I can see this affecting the food industry and some other traditional manufacturing enterprises. This must be a very serious worry. Could Ms Nicola Byrne or Ms Maria Armstrong reflect and elaborate on the concerns they have been hearing regarding possible relocation to Great Britain? I will bring in my colleagues, starting with Senator Mark Daly. We will then go back to Ms Byrne and Ms Armstrong if that is all right.

I thank Ms Byrne for her presentation. The purpose of these hearings by various Oireachtas committees is to find solutions. The Irish Exporters Association has called on the Government to engage in various ways. We hope the delegates will supply us with detailed proposals that the committee can put to the Government on measures that could be taken. For example, as the Chairman asked, what should our proposal be to the European Union on transit routes across Britain? Should we propose the use of steel containers? Would there be a precedent for this? We have to make an argument for all of these. How would it work? What can we do?

Is there an argument to be made on trade quotas? What we need are detailed ideas of what our trade quotas with Britain should be. In the 1960s we had a trade agreement with Britain on agriculture which was not entirely favourable to us, but, as the Chairman pointed out, it was our only market and we had no choice. What should be our trade quotas at present day values? We need to state we are a special case in the European Union because this will decimate our agricultural community if we do not have trade quotas between Ireland and Britain. It would also be in Britain's interests because it has a trade surplus. Ms Byrne could not give us in her statement, because we simply did not have the time, the nuts and bolts of how much we should seek in every sector. In agriculture, manufacturing, clothing and other sectors we should state the trade quota Ireland is seeking. We need to go to the European Union with these details which the Irish Exporters Association have. I am sure the Department also has them. When we go to the European Union, people tell us they are looking for our proposals.

There is an interesting precedent for trade between Northern Ireland and the Republic in what happened between East Germany and West Germany prior to the Berlin Wall coming down. During the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s East Germany was allowed to trade with West Germany without having to comply with European Community law. I do not know whether a blind eye was turned to this trade, but we need details because it would allow us to tell the Germans that they had an arrangement between East Germany and West Germany and that we should be allowed to have one between the North and the South because we are a special case. The phrase "special case" was used when the German trade law was described. Will the Irish Exporters Association provide the committee with more details on what it wants? Unless we go to the European Union with what we want, it will be assumed that we do not want anything. Preferably we need to have it backed up by precedent and existing European regulations and laws, whereby, for example, we can state Ireland is seeking something under a particular directive.

We all agree that Irish jobs should not be lost because of a decision made primarily by English and Welsh voters. That is where we should start this debate.

Ms Byrne mentioned air and sea links and the significant amount of Irish goods shipped through Britain to continental Europe. Do the delegates have any idea for what percentage it accounts? Ms Byrne stated more preparations needed to be made. Will she expand on this point? The Government will state budget 2017 included measures as part of the preparations. Does the Irish Exporters Association believe they are enough? What more do we need to do as a state?

The idea of connectivity with the rest of Europe includes energy. Our access to energy markets is through Britain. At one stage there was talk about an interconnector between Ireland and France. Do the delegates believe this project should now be spearheaded because of Brexit? Do they believe we are vocal enough on the idea of special funding to build our ports in order that we will be able to use alternative routes? What are their views on the matter?

Brexit has unique implications for Ireland. Does the Irish Exporters Association have a view on a special relaxation of the fiscal rules for Ireland because of our unique position? Has it discussed this issue? Ms Byrne spoke about competitiveness. Unfortunately, everyone runs off and states labour costs represent the biggest competitiveness issue. It is not necessarily the case for Irish business that labour represents the biggest cost. Some of it has to do with upward-only rent reviews and child care and other costs, including the cost of rent and accommodation for workers. Do the delegates agree that if the 12.5% corporation tax rate was implemented in full for every company, it would grow the tax base and allow us to reduce personal tax rates? I have huge sympathy and concern for SMEs which provide jobs throughout the State as they are not afforded sweetheart tax deals.

I understand and sympathise with Ms Byrne's statement that we need more of a focus on trade between Ireland and Britain, not simply a focus on the North and the imposition of a border because east-west trade is extremely important. Ms Byrne mentioned the importance of food and agricultural exports, a matter about which the Chairman also spoke. Does the Irish Exporters Association believe there is a demand for quality food in Britain? Ms Byrne spoke about customer surveys. People state they want quality food and that it is not just about how it is presented but what goes into it. They are concerned about genetically modified foods and additives. Most people who eat meat would not necessarily want to find antibiotics in their food stock. How important is this issue? Are we raising a particular fear that might not necessarily reflect people's eating habits? There is a huge demand for fast food, as we can see in our communities. People do not have a clue how to cook and there is an over-reliance on convenience foods, something about which I am concerned. Many Irish food products do not go down the fast food route, which might be a benefit. Is the Irish Exporters Association concerned about the idea of products coming in through Britain and the North and being dumped here?

Ms Byrne mentioned the importance of food and agricultural products. A border would be devastating for the milk industry. This issue is mentioned at every meeting we attend and the figure of 1 billion litres of milk crossing back and forth for processing has been discussed. It will be a mess. We would all put up our hands and state not enough preparations are being made. We will not get into serious negotiations until Article 50 is triggered. Do the delegates have a view on this? Do they believe the preparations about which they spoke should be made? The World Trade Organization has estimated that 600 million litres of milk will be subject to an aggregate tariff of 45%. How will this work out for producers, North and South?

I am also surprised that there is no mention of InterTradeIreland. People speak about its importance and the returns we are getting. Do the witnesses have a view on that and should there be greater investment in it? I understand there is supposed to be 60:40 investment but the rules do not apply to investment in the State. Is that a way forward and to get around those regulations?

The witnesses said the Government needed to attract more FDI from the Middle East, China and India. What opportunities should we be looking at and at what industries? Are there new markets? Has the association spoken to the Iranian ambassador who says they are crying out for greater co-operation. Is that market positive? There are difficulties about Irish companies investing in Iran, but how will that move forward?

What can the Government do to create more indigenous industries? Is there a lack of support for SMEs to help them get off the ground, grow and export? What specific things can the Government do? Was enough support provided in budget 2017?

The solutions cannot be left up to the Government alone. It behoves many other organisations, institutions and companies to be involved in providing solutions. My questions are very simple. Ms Byrne referred to opening up new routes to avoid the UK. Can she elaborate on that? What are the key factors for Ireland to gain more competitiveness as we go forward? Next week, our Ministers are travelling for St. Patrick's week. What is the association's input in that regard and on trade missions generally? Being positive about it, what are the opportunities for Ireland if one were to look at Brexit as an opportunity? I acknowledge that it is a challenge, but is there an opportunity whereby it could be more positive for Ireland going forward?

How do the witnesses wish to divide the replies?

Ms Nicola Byrne

I will let Ms Armstrong reply first on the over-riding question. I can answer the rest then. Ms Armstrong will begin because we have surveyed the number of our members who have crossed the land bridge. We have approximately 600 members from FDI down. We focused on agriculture as part of our exports, but I qualify that by noting that agriculture represents only 2% of total exports. I record that 66% of our exports are from large, foreign-owned FDI companies, 21% from medium foreign-owned FDI companies, and 1% from small FDI companies. The balance of Irish-owned businesses comprises 4% large Irish owned, 6% medium Irish owned and only 2% Irish owned small business. As such, talking about FDI in total matters because every success to date has been to attract that FDI which caused our exports to be where they are. We have been a rip-roaring success in attracting the right business into this country. No matter which Government has been in place, they have all worked toward bringing that to bear on the market. I wanted to qualify that because while agriculture is hugely important in terms of jobs, regional balance and the North-South issue, one must focus on the fact that 66% of our exports come from large FDI companies. It is not about the beef, it is about moving all of that.

Most of those companies are now moving into high-end services. Medical can walk out with €2 billion worth of equipment in a suitcase and deliver it to the UK for high-end medical products. This is not all about shipping. We are shipping food and stock, but we have to focus on bringing in the jobs that keep those exports going. We have been very successful in doing that. What we are trying to do now in the Irish Exporters' Association is protect Irish jobs and our members so that everybody continues to export to the UK. This is a crisis. We are spending a great deal of time on the political agenda North-South. While it is ultimately important, what is funding that is trade. If we do not keep this trade rocking, there will be nothing to fund up North or South. Trade is everything. We need that trade to flow freely. The reason the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade is very important to us is that we need it to do more of what it does best, namely, build those relationships so that we can keep the trade we have now and develop the future trade we hope to win. At that, I will let Ms Armstrong provide the figures.

Ms Marie Armstrong

The first question was about trying to get some statistics behind the use of the land bridge. A survey of our members, which will be published during the week, shows that 67% use the UK land bridge to access the continental market. It is a hugely significant number. Those members are very concerned about continuing to use the UK in terms of customs and being stopped at borders. They are very concerned that the slow direct route will impact the quality of the product. It is 40% of our members who are worried about that. Over half think it will impact on their overall costs of inventory and other costs. They are very concerned and are actively looking at opening up other routes, namely, new shipping routes. They are looking at which ports have the easiest access to Europe. That is obviously to look at Rosslare and the deep-sea water port in Foynes. Should we be investing in the latter? That is what our members are looking at and they are in discussions with Maersk and other companies to see what they can do. I take very much Senator Daly's point about trying to come back on specifics and Deputy O'Sullivan's point about looking at things positively. Certainly, we would like to come back and look at opportunities, but the use of the land bridge is a concern.

Ms Nicola Byrne

We will come back with very detailed information. The south east is where we are going to focus because we need the shortest point when shipping food. Perishable goods cannot spend an extra day trooping around the Irish Sea so it will have to be the south east by geography. If that happens, the three ports with tier 1 status will have to be looked again by the EU. If the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade wants to do something, it should talk to the Department with responsibility for the marine to discuss what point is on the shortest route if we cannot cross the UK. That is most likely Rosslare or somewhere in that neck of the woods. We cannot come from Foynes, around the bottom of the country and then across the channel to get to the Continent; we will have to go direct. That may mean looking at the status of our three ports. We may either have to increase the status of three to four or reconfigure.

Ms Marie Armstrong

Or look to the EU for additional funding.

Ms Nicola Byrne

We are looking for money to refund. Realistically, we are not going to do it if the land bridge is removed from us.

The second point was on energy and connectivity. I was present when the memorandum of understanding was signed between London and Dublin. The British and Irish Governments got together on shipping energy across the water. Energy is not as great a risk for us but while connectivity heading to France is always an option, it is something we should be concerned about. The cost problem for our members in Ireland is due to the focus on green energy. We have looked to head green and the cost of that has been carried by all business but I do not believe they have that correct when it comes to energy.

Internal energy issues for our members who want to trade out of the country are a real concern. Because green energy has taken such a priority, we are funding something that has not been well thought out. The ESB and the Government need to get together to address that issue because we will not be competitive. Every survey the IDA and Enterprise Ireland run compares us with western Europe in terms of Switzerland, France and Germany. They take the highest value markets to compare us with. Unfortunately, when we lose our connectivity to the UK, we will be competing with Poland and Romania where the cost of living and the cost of doing business are substantially lower.

It looks great to say we are doing well because we have compared ourselves with high value countries, but when we compare ourselves with where the competition is going to come from, it is not going to work out. We have not been looking at the full picture. We have deliberately focused our gaze to make ourselves look good. Having said that, we have the best productivity in the world. Our GNP and Irish productivity show that if one spends $1 in Ireland, one will get 50% more productivity than anywhere else in the world. Our labour is good and our productivity is superb, but we do not have cost competitiveness. Energy is a big factor in that regard.

Ms Marie Armstrong

In respect of the interconnector, there is an agreement between Ireland and the UK from when the gas interconnectors were first put in place. That predates the EU. Our members are not concerned about energy security at the moment, whether that is right or wrong. The other question that has come up is whether we should be looking to the west, namely, to the US, and considering bringing in liquified natural gas facilities. There was one facility originally considered for Limerick, I think. There is a question as to whether that should be actioned in terms of energy security. I do think that the interconnector between Ireland and France is certainly worth considering. Although it would require significant funding from the EU, it can be done.

Ms Nicola Byrne

Deputy Crowe asked about fiscal rules. It is a really good question. We would like to see no change to our fiscal rules; I think we have that right. If nothing had changed and the UK had not voted for Brexit, we would not be sitting here having this conversation. We would still be talking about cost competitiveness and probably nothing else.

I agree that we are in unique circumstances in the context of Brexit. The problem for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade is that, when we are out having these conversations with our counterparts, all the feedback we see from the ambassadors is that they do not care; they are not getting it at the moment. We are going out asking for special dispensations about Northern Ireland, yet nobody seems to understand the precariousness of Northern Ireland. They have all got their own competitive markets to fight for. The Romanian ambassador is keen to point out to me on a regular basis that Ireland does incredibly well and nobody understands why. It is because we were between the two giant markets of the US and the UK, and we have done particularly well because we all spoke a common language.

While we cannot dictate the fiscal rules, we have to get much louder in what we are fighting for. If it means a bigger budget for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade then the Irish Exporters Association is happy to champion that, so that its people can go out and fight a better case across Europe, with more ambassadors and more staff in all the embassies. We need to be working harder to show people the pain we are going to be in if this goes horribly wrong.

Ms Marie Armstrong

Making use of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, the embassies and the networks, was suggested in the paper that was published yesterday by the Government. We think that is a no-brainer. In my other job I am a tax partner in one of the large accounting firms. The 12.5% tax rate has been the cornerstone, particularly around foreign direct investment, FDI, and I think it should remain as such. The difficulty we have is that the UK is now going to go down to a 17% rate.

I met Mr. Hilary Benn, MP, when he was over here. We discussed the UK's fiscal balance and where it is going to generate additional taxes, and what we think is a likely outcome in terms of negotiations on customs. Their view was that is was likely to resemble the Turkish model more closely than any of the other mixed models, immigration being a key concern for them. It was also very clearly expressed that Scotland may emerge as an issue in the next couple of weeks. Some of the members who were at the meeting were very clear that there is likely to be a push for a vote in Scotland. I do not know how that is going to change the whole mix of negotiations on Brexit but I imagine it will change it. At the moment, as an accounting practitioner, I see that the companies I deal with are not going to wait for an outcome but are just starting to move ahead. They are assuming that there are going to be customs, tariffs and potential VAT cash flow costs going back and forth between ourselves and the UK. They are only now starting to think about that. I do not know what is going to happen in Scotland but that might alter our thinking a little.

Ms Nicola Byrne

On the subject of labour and housing costs, I would agree that wages in Ireland are not what we are targeting. Labour costs are driven primarily by housing costs. I completely agree that affordable housing needs to be addressed by the Government. The Government has a strategy for dealing with this, and I know the strategy intimately. The labour costs will continue to rocket and will cause us huge problems as we skylight. We will make it unaffordable. It is almost impossible to rent anywhere in the country at the moment. Affordable housing needs to be addressed in order for this to correct itself, if we are going to attract FDI and more exporters. I believe the housing supply will fix itself in the next 18 months. The Government has taken steps and I believe it is going to fix it. I would be fairly confident in standing over that. We do then need to address labour in turn. We are not trying to get the minimum wage down. We are just saying that if we can get energy, housing and transport costs down, wages will go much further and we will have something to be competitive in. It is all linked; trade is absolutely dependent on having the labour workforce here.

Ms Marie Armstrong

When we surveyed our members on costs - this is not going to come as a surprise to anyone - the increasing cost of insurance was a top concern. Increasing wages were further down the chain, possibly because most of the companies would be privately owned or multinationals, so labour costs were not a high feature. It was more the other operating costs that were of concern.

Ms Nicola Byrne

On the east-west issue, yes this is why we are here. This will be crucial for trade in the future. We do have a 1,000 year history with our nearest neighbour. Like it or not, we are geographically placed where we are. I took the French foreign Minister into a meeting last week and he said to me, rather tongue-in-cheek, "Well Nicola, we are your nearest neighbour, now that they are going, and you only trade €10 billion with us a year, but between us we trade €52 billion with the UK; maybe it is time you looked to France." So I came home panicked and looked up the statistics and said to myself "What the hell, we are trading €10 billion with France?" It turns out that our primary source of trade with France is meat. I realised I did not know anything about French trade. I run a small business and trade in the UK and Ireland and always have done. It never dawned on me that I would have to consider going to France, where I have no relationships, friends or natural contacts. Without the likes of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade building those relationships and opening that ground for us, we will remain behind the curve. Our labour is not affected by languages because we can import it. Our labour is going to be affected by relationships and those we need badly.

Ms Marie Armstrong

On the east-west issue, while we are looking to change our markets, countries in the Middle East such as Saudi Arabia are in the process of setting up their own equivalent of the IDA, Enterprise Ireland and the Irish Exporters Association. They are putting in billions to fund this as they are looking to change their own dynamics and what they do. We have to be mindful that countries in the east are looking to go west while we are looking to go east.

Senator Daly asked what we have that predates the EU that we could preserve or latch on to. One thing is our horse industry. Those who are interested in horses or racing may know that there is a scheme between Ireland, France and the UK which predates the EU, and which allows for the movement of horses between those three countries without having to go through a lot of regulation or veterinary checks. It is like a passport scheme. When we start looking harder we will see that there are arrangements that predate the EU, which might help give us some avenues. It is no different from arguing the case in respect of water.

Ms Nicola Byrne

Lesser quality food was the next question. The UK has nine out of the ten poorest regions in the whole of the EU. That is quite an astounding statistic. And they are the ones Brexiting. We had actually been the key drivers in quality food going into the UK, which is why we succeeded. The advantage of having a sterling differential meant our food was competitive. If that sterling differential continues to drop, that food is no longer competitive. The UK market is not suddenly going to become job-rich. It will take a while for certain regions of the UK to crawl out of that unemployment and poverty, so the idea that we could up the cost of their food is unrealistic. Their cost of inflation, their low-cost jobs market and their minimum wage will not allow that to happen.

The next question about premium food was very good. That is what we produce. We have one of the few grass-fed beef herds in the world. New Zealand is the only other country that can lay claim to one. We have premium food.

One thing we are very good at is taking our premium food and branding it. This is only a tiny part of our exports but An Bord Bia is spectacularly good at this. If the Government put more money behind it we could be selling that premium beef and green beef around the world. At the moment the market is tight because we have been selling into supermarkets but there is an opportunity for premium food. Between the cost of living - if the UK economy plummets to a low-cost environment - and the tariffs there is no way our food will go in there. That is a big problem for our members, which will be shut down and much of the agricultural industry here will be shut down. I do not know the answer. That is a key concern.

Ms Marie Armstrong

Ms Byrne mentioned in her presentation that we are aware of discussions with the Commonwealth countries about supply of food post Brexit. We have been reminding people that food security is as important as energy security. We are aware that there are large Chinese companies that, for example, have bought the largest land farm in New Zealand. While China and other countries look to Africa for raw materials they are doing the same in respect of food but this is happening very quietly. We have been reminding our nearest neighbours that they should think about who will be their friends in the future when it comes to food security. That is much more likely to be Ireland than a country that is quite far away although it may be part of the Commonwealth. Food security will be an issue of long-term concern for the UK. We need to watch carefully what is happening quietly behind the scenes.

Ms Nicola Byrne

As for the Border being devastating, yes that would be a concern, particularly for the milk quotas. Dairy products account for a large part of our exports. I have a list and can show it to committee members afterwards if they are interested. The idea that we can drop our powdered milk into China has not been as successful as we had all hoped it would be. Even having known the milk quotas were disappearing and having stocked up ahead, we have failed dismally to get markets to open to us because there are so many other markets that can compete with us, even in Europe. The status quo does not fix the Border problem but Brexit certainly does not help, it makes it far worse. If that Border did return and even if customs activities were based in Stranraer but not on the island of Ireland - being an island there might be exceptions - these problems regarding the Border will not go away because we will have two different markets, with the UK controlling Six Counties while we control the rest. The solution is half way between politics and trade.

Northern Ireland is not of interest at the moment to the members of the Irish Exporters Association, IEA, because we pass through it, we do not trade with it. I do not mean to sound heartless, although this will come across as being completely selfish, Northern Ireland is of no relevance to us because there is no trade North and South. As a trade organisation that is trying to export we do not generally export to Northern Ireland. The amount of trade it accounts for is so small it is not worth even writing on a page. We need to fix that but that is an internal not an external issue. Our time would not be well spent on that issue. That will fix organically with time. There are plenty of people working on it. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade needs to concern itself more with how we will prepare the 66% of exports from foreign direct investment, FDI, that cross that landbridge and go from here around the world.

Ms Marie Armstrong

On quotas, we feel it is always easier if there are two voices advocating the same thing at the same time. There is a possibility that the UK will advocate for existing quotas, whether between Ireland and the UK or Europe and Ireland. That is a rather good idea. It is very clear that the EU will give the UK a rap on the knuckles. There is no question that there is no inside-outside club. There are measures in respect of certain minimum quotas whether for food or energy security. That is a very good idea and a very practical approach. We should consider that and the milk industry has been particularly badly hit by the amount of imports from Northern Ireland. I cannot remember who asked about looking for quotas and what they are but it is a good idea. We can see where we are now and what we need and then look to increase our trade by moving east to countries that are close to us, like our neighbours in la belle France.

Ms Nicola Byrne

The preparatory work is complicated by the fact that we are European citizens and our border is still Europe. I do not know what preparatory work we can do but we need to be out there pushing relationships. We can all surmise who will do what but the problem is that we have not done enough preparatory work with our European counterparts and the 27 countries do not understand. They say "Yes, it is Northern Ireland, it will be fine." When I hear that I am concerned that they are not hearing about all the other trade. We are not making loud and large enough requests of our European counterparts. In response to the question as to whether we are doing enough preparatory work about matters other than Northern Ireland, the answer is firmly "No". We all travel to Brussels. We all work in the industry and we are not hearing any indication that the word "trade" is coming to the top of the agenda.

Ms Marie Armstrong

A total of 30% of our members had done absolutely nothing about Brexit as of February. They have made no preparations or thought about what they need to do. That is rapidly changing and things are being done, for example, the Revenue Commissioners are considering technology that might speed things up. Regulation, red tape, customs, paperwork etc. will slow down costs and trade. There are things we can do. We are just not doing enough of it. Half of our members are more concerned about the potential break-up of the EU or the potential for the EU to run a twin-track approach with the four large countries separating out and the rest of the small countries being left behind. They are concerned too about changes in the US tax system. I have seen companies stop making big decisions about whether to invest in Ireland. The US FDI is not going to leave Ireland any time soon but some of those investment decisions may move outside Ireland. That is why we need to look beyond the US for FDI and towards the east.

Ms Nicola Byrne

I am not going to talk about InterTradeIreland for the same reason as we do not talk about trade within Ireland because we are exporters. It is a different brief and we are not qualified to talk about it. We can give the committee a personal view later. I love it. It is an excellent organisation and I spent a great deal of time with it and it is an incredibly useful resource.

In respect of industry I wrote down the words Aberdeen and oil. One of the problems raised by Brexit is that many people from Saudi Arabia and Qatar have studied in the UK, many in Aberdeen, which gives them a natural affinity and relationship with the UK. As the UK will no longer be the centre of the universe there is an opportunity to bring those people to Ireland to educate them here. There is an opportunity to consider education as trade because as far as we are concerned, tourism is trade and so is education, which is also a service. Services will account for between 30% and 40% of trade in tourism and other industries in Ireland. Ignoring the food and the pharmaceutical sectors, we are left with services and that is our strength, so we should aim to build relationships through the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to attract people into the country who develop an affinity with the country and promote trade.

Ms Marie Armstrong

One of the points made in the paper published yesterday was about trying to attract more foreign students into Ireland, which is a good idea. We are used to the Irish diaspora making connections but it can happen in reverse. If we take people into Ireland and send them back out, they may become our friends. That is a good idea but it means we need to invest in our universities. As I have relatives who live in China, I know that when they think about which country they will go to, they look at university rankings, rightly or wrongly. To attract foreign students we need to consider our university ratings.

It is very important that we invest in them. The skills challenge, the war for talent or whatever phrase one likes to put on it is always an issue that comes up. Some 37% of our members are concerned about that. The easiest thing is to upskill our own students as well as taking in international students. We would strongly favour increased investment and increased language skills from four or five in our primary schools right through to university.

Ms Nicola Byrne

Creating more indigenous industry is an absolute must. It is probably one of the most relevant points. We are completely dependent on foreign-owned exporting businesses in Ireland. We need to focus on our tech services and on all the exports where goods are not traditionally shipped over land. We need to focus on the non-physical stuff that is just as important for export. Education also comes under that bracket. In order to create more indigenous industries we have to stop thinking about tangible products moving across land or sea, we need to start talking about broadband infrastructure and we have to start skilling up in those areas. It will become more specific as we take in more talent.

On my way in today I was thinking the one attribute Ireland has - most people think it is a failing - is that we are nimble and open to change. We have always been open to change. It is really important for the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to see that we can be really nimble and adapt our exports. To date we have followed a traditional route, but we are a different Ireland. It is a different Europe now and we have the ability to say to the rest of the world, "We are nimble. We are open. Come here. Look how brilliant we are." We have one of the most flexible workforces with the least amount of regulation and the greatest productivity. We have a huge amount to bring to bear on that.

Ms Marie Armstrong

Some indigenous companies, particularly in medtech, have been formed by people who worked in FDI companies, particularly in the Galway area. It has been a hotbed for new Irish companies. One of Ireland's largest companies, CRH, has a presence in many countries around the world. The reason is that a brick cannot be exported in an efficient manner from Ireland to the US. Looking at the types of products we have that are easily transportable by air or by ship is something we need to think about and look at the shift in what we are doing.

Every ten years China sets out a new programme outlining what it will do in the future. It has been mainly targeted on cities. It will pick a city to be focused on medtech, food or agriculture. It will pick those in a very specific manner. Having read the paper yesterday I think there is some suggestion of doing that in Ireland. It would be the correct approach to establish centres of excellence. That has happened naturally through FDI, whether that is down in Cork with chemical companies or in Galway. That has happened because that is where the companies want to be, rather than a strategy. It is a good idea to build on that and try to keep jobs not just in Dublin but outside Dublin - in the west and midlands.

Ms Nicola Byrne

On budget 2017-----

Ms Marie Armstrong

No, the Government did not do enough.

Ms Nicola Byrne

Ms Armstrong will take that, as the accountant.

Ms Marie Armstrong

We are just not keeping pace. Ms Byrne mentioned AIG; although financial services and the IFSC are very important none of the clients we deal with said they would take 1,000 jobs from London and bring them here. That will not happen; they will bring a smaller number of jobs. When it comes to bringing a larger number of jobs, we are always asked outside the corporate tax rate, which is absolutely a pillar, what the personal tax rate is. Many companies have what they call tax equalisation policies. They start by looking at their home country to establish how much an employee would earn after tax in that country and calculate how much they need to pay that person in Ireland in order to ensure it is the same.

We have done some things, for example, SARP, the special assignee relief programme, which affords tax relief to companies bringing foreign nationals to work in the country. We have also done some things to reciprocate regarding expanding the number of countries for which there is a foreign earnings deduction if they go abroad. However, we are just not competitive enough, particularly in the entrepreneurial space. I constantly meet people in start-up Irish companies that get bought out by US or other foreign companies. Unfortunately that happens in the very early stage. One of the reasons is that people are trying to decide whether to stay on or sell on and make the money now. Unfortunately that is often driven by their after-tax return on the investment. The UK has improved its entrepreneurship tax regime and has become more competitive. I have met a number of entrepreneurs who have considered setting up a company in the UK because they will do better after tax. We have not done enough.

We have done some things on farm consolidation which is very important. In order for the agrifood industry to survive we need to upskill and change the type and quality of products. We were talking about Kobe beef and other such high-end premium products that our farmers can produce. Farm consolidation, more efficient farms, the use of technology in agriculture and the tax reliefs around that are definitely helping the agricultural industry. We can always do more and at the very least we need to compete on an international stage. That is under serious threat with the common consolidated tax base, with the EU being unhappy with how the taxes are shared among us. We will continue to come under pressure in that area.

Ms Nicola Byrne

Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan asked about new routes. Obviously to bypass the UK south west, south east would be the natural geography because obviously north is north unless the border becomes somewhere else. It is hard to call at this stage because it is so complex. The Larne to Stranraer route would be an ideal route if we were crossing land as it is, but unfortunately the route from Rosslare to Cherbourg or somewhere like that is looking far more realistic. It comes back to the point I made that we will need to pick ports and invest in them. We need to get new designations for our ports. We need to either get one additional port or substitute out one and replace it with another. It is complex. I was teasing the French Minister and asking him if he was planning on putting his country's battleships on our coast because the English would not be defending us anymore; he did not say "No". There are new opportunities. We do not know how this will pan out. We do not know how the borders of Europe will be protected. If Britain is out, who protects the northern sea? I am volunteering Foynes because it has air cover for bringing them out. It is irrelevant because we just do not know the answer.

Ms Marie Armstrong

Some countries have effectively purchased or leased ports in other European countries and invested in them. It might be worth considering trying to get investment in Irish ports and brokering some sort of deal that would allow people to have access to Irish ports in return for the investment. Russia has leased ports in eastern Europe, which is obviously a different issue. I am aware that Irish companies have privately invested in ports in Central and South America. They are shipping product from there and have done a very good deal for that country in return for use of the port. I do not see why that cannot happen in a reciprocal situation.

Ms Nicola Byrne

I think I have covered the key factors to make us more competitive. I am happy that enough of them are done.

I believe St. Patrick's Day is vital for trade. The Irish Exporters Association will have some staff going in various directions for St. Patrick's Day, primarily to the US and UK. It is a vital day. While politically everybody looks at costs and everything else, we know we trade when we get there. Having spent St. Patrick's Day in New York on a few occasions, I have come out as the recipient of many good deals because everybody comes together and it is a nice way of meeting people and people can do business while they are there.

Maybe they should also be thinking of France.

Ms Nicola Byrne

My French is not that good, but I am now considering it.

Ms Marie Armstrong

Tourism Ireland does a good job, including the idea of lighting up buildings in green. We get a big bounce from St. Patrick's Day. Irrespective of whether we agree with the views of President Trump, we certainly believe that the US is a very important trading partner and it is vital that we continue to go on trade missions. However, we need to look east.

We need to look at France and Germany and build relations with them. We do not have the same disapora in those countries but nonetheless we have some people.

Ms Nicola Byrne

We have a huge advantage because we have been so open in Europe, and with so many Polish people and other nationalities now living here, the benefit of having such an open border and welcoming attitude has been part of our success. It will continue to be a success. The Polish community is vibrant and there is a Croatian community, a Romanian community and many others that we have yet to tap. There is much to be gained by spending more time and energy focusing on them instead of our nearest neighbour.

Ms Marie Armstrong

When they are looking at new markets, 25% of our members are now looking at Poland.

Ms Nicola Byrne

We were asked what we thought would be the outcome. Believe it or not, the one thing Ireland has not planned for is success. We are brilliantly positioned. Our politicians are fragmented within the Dáil but yet are united and all the parties understand that success is trade. Someone said to me last week in London that every 1% of the jobs from businesses in the City would create 6,000 jobs. We only need to get 0.2% to provide 1,000 high-end jobs here and that would change the dynamic for SMEs from the bottom up and trade would flourish.

The biggest mistake we are making is that we have not planned for success. We have planned to deal with the internal politics but we did not plan for the European politics. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade should focus on making this a rip-roaring success by having good relationships. Europe does not understand enough where our pain points are and we have an awful lot to lose, but at the end of this we could come out a rip-roaring success if we get the relationships and trade agreements back in place.

Ms Marie Armstrong

My father used to say to me that if you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail. We just need to prepare and assume that the UK will not get a good deal. If we prepare for the worst, we will be well placed to take advantage of the many opportunities that are out there. We would be very positive.

Ms Nicola Byrne

Yes, we are feeling quite positive that the world will not end and we will continue to trade and we would like there to be the least amount of pain.

Ms Marie Armstrong

It will be difficult for the next four to five years.

What engagement do the witnesses have with the Export Trade Council? Did the Irish Exporters Association have an input into the Government's trade strategy that was published yesterday? The target is a 0.25% increase in exports.

Ms Nicola Byrne

We are part of the process. There is a close working relationship between our CEO and the various Departments so we have made an input on everything.

That is good.

Ms Nicola Byrne

We have an input but we might not be heard.

Some of our exporters, for example, in the part of the world I come from use Warrenpoint and Larne ports. Do the witnesses have a figure for what percentage of our exports go via those ports?

Ms Marie Armstrong

Not to hand.

That would be an extra complication as well.

Ms Nicola Byrne

We can definitely include it in the next survey we send out. We send regular surveys and we would be happy to include that information.

It would be very important. We can talk about high-end premium products and food but it must be remembered that one must get a price as well. I have some experience in the food area. Our agrifood sector works. It is highly sophisticated. There is not much more we can do as we are the best there is. We export food to approximately 181 countries. That is a significant number of destinations throughout the world. It is a big imprint.

There was reference to infant formula. As a very small country we contributed approximately 15% of the world's baby formula in 2010. That is phenomenal for a small state. I do not know if the percentage has remained the same. Infant formula, understandably, is one of the most exacting products. Farmers and food processors who bring that product to China and to other places in Asia and elsewhere deserve great credit for the high and exacting standards they reached and maintain.

It is a very protracted business opening new markets for food. We try to get food products into countries that do not reach our high standards in food production but they demand incredibly high standards of incoming products. Unfortunately, negotiations go on for years. There are protocols and memoranda of understanding are put in place. One does not just go to a market and come home and send product out the following week. It is a very protracted business. Our statutory agencies and industry have been very good at sourcing new markets.

It is ironic when one looks at Britain and the cheap food policy given that the first mission statement of the Common Agricultural Policy, which was the first common policy of the then EEC, was to provide a secure, supply of safe food for the citizens of Europe. That has been successful. We spoke earlier about the deficiencies in the European Union, as it is now, but it has been hugely successful in that core policy objective which arose out of rationing of food in Europe following the Second World War. In that context, we must be very positive about the contribution of the EU and the EEC before it.

Ms Armstrong mentioned the fact that 30% of the association's members have done nothing in relation to Brexit. I like her optimism. Máirtín Ó Muilleoir refers to optimistic people as the sunny side of the street people. In terms of the 30% of members who have not done anything, is that due to people feeling helpless? I met some chambers of commerce and some of their members still think Brexit will not happen. Is that a reason for members not doing anything or is there a sense of helplessness?

Ms Marie Armstrong

I think part of it is that they do not really understand what the heck Brexit would mean. The most recent survey was carried out in February. They are just sitting on the fence waiting to see what will happen. They assume something will happen but they just were not sure. It is difficult to know whether it is due to hedging or whatever else but the view appears to have been that they would just sit and wait rather than panic and run around and do things. That will change rapidly once Article 50 is triggered this month.

We were already looking at things like modelling for companies on their costs and supply chain if customs and VAT are factored in. People will be concerned about the potential impact in particular if one has products going back and forth across the Border. For example, in the car industry, specialist parts are manufactured here. Some of the raw materials that go into the product, which is then exported out of this country, go through a whole supply chain and could incur additional costs. Companies are just starting to look at that. I think they will start to do something but I do not think they will wait. It was just uncertainty and maybe a hope that it would all go away, that somebody would see sense or that it would not go ahead.

I mentioned Scotland. I do not know whether Scotland will decide to have to have another vote on independence and if that would change the situation. As much as 50% of members are as worried about Europe as they are about Britain and that number will increase depending on the outcome of the elections in the coming weeks.

Ms Nicola Byrne

Dare I say it, but I think many of our members are hoping that common sense prevails and that politicians and people whom they have trusted to date to get us this far have got the wisdom to negotiate in a common-sense way. Sometimes there is nothing one can do because we have many businesses on the Border that export 97% of everything they make and they take in the parts from all around Europe, all of which comes in through the land bridge in the UK into Northern Ireland. The companies make high-end machinery and equipment. They do not know what to do because if they plan one way, it might go the other way. There are so many options that they are not making any plans. They are aware that a change is coming, but until somebody makes a decision, no plan can be made. We genuinely believe that common sense will ultimately prevail and that trade will be allowed to continue because nobody wants to destroy how far we have come and that we all have to recognise the uniqueness of the situation.

I use the word "hope" because none of us knows the outcome.

Ms Marie Armstrong

But plan for the worst.

Ms Nicola Byrne

Plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Common sense and Brexit do not-----

Ms Marie Armstrong

Yin and yang.

I am very optimistic about the profession we trade in.

Ms Marie Armstrong

We believe in you.

We did not mention currency fluctuations today, nor did we mention our high dependency on Britain as a location from which we import a considerable amount of products, particularly intermediate products for manufacturing.

Ms Nicola Byrne

The supply chain is a huge problem for us. BMW already announced that Minis would not be made in the United Kingdom anymore because it brings in all the parts, makes the cars there and ships them back out to mainland Europe. It has made a firm announcement. The supply chain extended all around Europe. The cars were manufactured in the United Kingdom and shipped out. It does not make sense if anything changes in the current arrangement. We are not the only people trading supply-chain goods with the United Kingdom.

We must be concerned with ourselves.

Ms Nicola Byrne

That is correct but one would hope the EU would understand our position. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade must say to Germany that we are an ally in supply-chain issues. We have to do it on the ground now. We cannot still be talking about Northern Ireland and letting that complicated message go by.

Ms Marie Armstrong

Germany is more concerned about being able to export cars to China than to the United Kingdom. They feel they can replace it. Although the German car industry is very important, I am not sure the UK is featuring as highly.

Currency was mentioned. If the exchange rate is between 80% and 85%, some 32% of our members’ profitability is affected. When the exchange rate goes above 90%, almost 80% of our members will be adversely affected. Only just over half, however, have considered hedging.

The other point, to which Deputy Crowe alluded, concerned the land border. We have raw material in agricultural products, such as milk. The milk is taken from the North to be processed here. I am thankful that many of our major food companies are all-Ireland companies. They have processing sites on both sides of the Border. Depending on the time of year or season, raw material may travel to the North or the South. Therefore, if there are different sanitary standards, etc., pertaining to food and the movement of primary agricultural produce, it creates considerable difficulty for us.

I thank the delegation very sincerely for its presentation. The delegates have extremely good data, which are very useful. I hope we will have the opportunity to consult the delegates further during the process. I wish their association well in its work.

The joint committee adjourned at 12.35 p.m. until 11.10 a.m. on Thursday, 23 March 2017.
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