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JOINT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND CHILDREN díospóireacht -
Thursday, 5 Jul 2012

How Are Our Families?: Discussion with Childhood Development Initiative

I welcome Mr. Joe Horan, chairperson, Dr. Suzanne Guerin, vice-chairperson, and Ms Michelle Butler, strategy and corporate services manager, from the Childhood Development Initiative. I also welcome Ms Mary Doyle, Tallaght west community representative, and Ms Val O'Reilly, Tallaght west community representative. I also welcome Ms Sinéad McNally, Ms Grainne Smith and Mr. Ronan Cavanagh, the Childhood Development Initiative, who are in the Visitors Gallery.

I thank them for the immense work they are doing and the publication of the report, How Are Our Families? It examines and updates information on families in Tallaght west and, in particular, the risk and protective factors associated with children's well-being.

Before we commence, I would like to remind the witnesses that they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to this committee. However, if they are directed by the committee to cease making remarks on a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their remarks. They are directed that only comments and evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings are to be given and are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any Member of either House of the Oireachtas, any person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise nor make charges against either a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I now invite the delegation to make an opening statement.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

The Childhood Development Initiative, CDI, welcomes the opportunity to present to the committee and thanks Deputy Maloney and members for inviting us this morning. CDI is one of the three prevention and early intervention programmes jointly funded by the Department of Children and Youth Affairs and by Atlantic Philanthropies. The three sites, CDI, Youngballymun and Preparing for Life were set up with "the objective of testing innovative ways of delivering services and early interventions for children and young people, including the wider family and community settings".

CDI is based in Tallaght West and began with the establishment of a consortium with 23 people in 2004. A partnership was agreed between the Government and Atlantic Philanthropies. The consortium's first work was a needs analysis entitled, How Are Our Kids? Several priorities were agreed based on this research, one of which was the set up and incorporation of CDI in 2007. Following this, several programmes were designed and delivered between 2007 and 2011.

Our programmes for Tallaght West are the Early Years programme; the Doodle Den literacy programme; the Mate-Tricks, Pro-Social Behaviour programme; the Healthy Schools programme; early intervention speech and language therapy; the community safety initiative; the safe and healthy place initiative; restorative practice; and the quality enhancement programme. All CDI programmes are evidence-informed and manualised. The programmes are delivered through existing structures and services while CDI has a core role in promoting quality, fidelity, value for money and added value. All elements of our work are rigorously and independently evaluated. CDI will be launching our programme evaluation reports over the coming months and would welcome the opportunity to share these with the committee once they are finalised.

However, our focus today is our recent research, entitled, How Are Our Families? While this research highlights the resilience of families in Tallaght West, it also indicates ongoing disadvantage and social issues. Accordingly, we would like to inform the committee of the key findings of this research. This research was undertaken by CDI in conjunction with the UCD School of Psychology and was co-authored by Dr. Tara Murphy and me. The purpose of this study was to update our understanding and information on families in the community of Tallaght west, particularly the risk and protective factors associated with children's well-being.

The research focused on extensive child and family demographic information and well-being indicators to provide a holistic picture of children's, young people's and families' lives. The current study used the same methodology as the original 2004 study, How Are Our Kids?, with the inclusion of an additional youth survey. While not returning to the specific participants from the 2004 study, this follow-up study sources participants in the same community. It was divided into two surveys, namely the household survey and the youth survey.

For the household survey, community field workers were trained to collect information using a structured survey. Survey questions were taken from a range of existing questionnaires examining education and employment, financial issues, health and well-being, child behaviour, sense of community and safety. The youth survey was completed in school and youth settings, again with the support of trained fieldworkers. The youth survey drew on questions from previous studies such as KIDSCREEN and the Irish health behaviour in school-aged children survey.

Overall, 141 families with 313 children participated, as well as 208 young people aged between 12 and 17 years attending local secondary schools and youth organisations. Residents completing the household survey were between 19 and 73 years old, with an average age of 33 years. The majority of the young people who participated in the study were aged between 12 and 13 years, with the average age being 13 years. Participants for the household survey were sampled from across five estates in Tallaght west with the largest group living in Jobstown, followed by Brookfield, Fettercairn, Killinarden and McUilliam. The majority of young people who participated in this study lived and attended school in Jobstown, followed by Killinarden and Brookfield. Two thirds of residents were renting their property from the local authority compared to 65% in the original 2004 study and 7% nationally. Up to 17% owned or had bought their home and the remaining renting or sharing privately.

For the purpose of this presentation, we have summarised our research findings into six sections covering family issues and parenting; employment; education; financial issues; sense of community and safety; and health. When researching family issues and parenting, in over half of the cases the family was headed by a couple, while just over 40% were single parents. People living in lone-parent households are the most vulnerable group experiencing the highest at risk of poverty nationally at 35.5%. In addition, families reported having between one and six children with an average of two children per household. Up to 21% of respondents to our household survey reported experiencing difficulties with former partners while 16% reported having regular fights with their partner. The study found that 45% of parents reported that they wanted their child to go to college or to have a good education while 8% wanted their child to get a good job and 16% wanted their child to be happy. Parental expectations for children in Tallaght west have increased with 81% reporting that they believe their child has a happy future ahead of them, which should result in positive outcomes for children in the future.

In general, young people in Tallaght west aged 12 to 17 years reported having a positive relationship with their parents or primary caregivers. Nearly 90% of adults reported really enjoying being a parent "all or most of the time". Some 68% of the youth survey respondents felt that their parents understood them "very" or "extremely" well compared to 58% in the KIDSCREEN study; and the majority of youth participants reported feeling "very" or "extremely" happy at home, which is greater than that reported in KIDSCREEN also.

On employment, the most frequent response by adults was that they were a full-time carer, followed by more than a quarter being in full-time or part-time work. Among the second adult family member, the most frequent responses was they were in full-time paid employment or unemployment-signing on.

On education, just under two thirds of parents believed that their child was achieving his or her potential at nursery or school. In terms of school absenteeism, almost one third of parents reported their child absent for between five and 20 days, with the most common reason being illness. Other reasons were appointments, holidays, truancy or, in the case of only 1% of the group, temporary exclusion. Parents reported that just over half of the children were involved in after-school activities, and the most frequently reported were music, dance and drama, at 30%, and sports, at 26%. Just over one third of young people reported that they often or always attended an after-school club. Finally, 45% of parents reported that they wanted their child to go on to college or have a good education.

Moving on to financial issues, there are serious financial demands on families in Tallaght west. Three quarters of adults have a medical card compared to 29% nationally. Some 43% reported that State benefits are the household's only source of income - similar to How Are Our Kids? of 2004. Families are seeking support where possible and are accessing local services, including one third access the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, 29% the credit union and 7% using MABS. Just under half of households indicated that they were getting by financially. However, one third reported having financial worries almost all of the time. Participants stated they were seriously behind in paying the following bills: television licence, 31%; other loans, 19%: and electricity, 18% - compared to 15% in 2004.

In the youth survey, interestingly, 71% of participants reported very often or always having enough money to do the same things as their friends compared to 69% nationally. This suggests that parents are working to ensure their children have access to activities and other things.

On sense of community and safety, two thirds of families reported that they felt a sense of community with other people in their area, with over 90% reporting that they knew at least one of their neighbours. Some 16% of adult respondents stated that they felt unsafe in their home, with 8% reporting that their child felt unsafe. Some 90% of parents reported that their child felt a sense of community with other children in the area. One third of young people reported that they had been bullied at least once, which is higher than that found in the HBSC survey, compared to 29% of adults reporting that the child has been bullied.

In the household survey, there was a high reporting of crime in the neighbourhood, at 87%, anti-social behaviour, 79%, and environmental issues, at 77%. However, the extent to which participants reported that these issues impacted directly on their family was lower in all of these categories. This suggests that families are aware of these issues but they are affecting them personally less frequently.

In terms of incidence of anti-social behaviour reported by youth, 50% of the participants in the youth survey indicated that there was a problem with this in their neighbourhood, but only 13% indicating that it directly affected them. Some 49% felt that crime was an issue, but only 10% reported that it directly affected them. These findings suggest that parents, schools or responses within the community may be mediating the direct effects of crime, anti-social behaviour and environmental problems.

On health, we addressed issues regarding physical and mental health and general well-being in both of the surveys. Children's and families' health and well-being needs to be nurtured and access to supports and services to ensure overall good health and well-being are essential. We found that two thirds of young people believed that their health was very good or excellent compared to a similar figure for KIDSCREEN and the HBSC survey.

Some 27% of the adult respondents self-reported difficulties with anxiety or depression, and 16% reported that their partner experienced anxiety and depression. Some 22% of parents had a child who felt worried or sad, and this compares to 14% in the original How Are Our Kids? Some 35% reported that their child had difficulties with emotions, concentration, behaviour or getting on with others. Nationally, almost one in five of those aged nine are reported to have mental and behavioural conditions - from "Growing Up in Ireland". One in five adults reported that they themselves have an illness, health problem or disability on a long-term basis compared to one in four in the original How Are Our Kids? survey. Some 18% of families report that they have a child with an illness, health problem or disability on a long-term basis, similar to How Are Our Kids?, at 15%.

Three quarters of young people reported having a very or extremely enjoyable life. Friendships and peer support are very important for children and young people. Some 86% of young people completing the survey stated that they and their friends very often or always helped each other and the majority of respondents reported having very positive relationships with their friends.

In conclusion, How Are Our Families? provides a detailed report on the lives of a group of families living in Tallaght west. Overall, findings from this study suggest that families are coping well in relation to health, parenting, and general well-being. For example, there is a positive sense of community and family support appears to be forthcoming for the majority. There is less parent-reported school absenteeism and bullying for children and young people, and nearly half of respondents in the household survey and just under half of respondents in the youth survey reported participation in out-of-school activities. However, the findings also highlight the struggles that some families have, particularly in paying bills. This is also reflected in the type of formal supports being accessed by respondents.

Central to the learning from this report is the clear theme that while many families in Tallaght west face challenges on a day-to-day basis, and, indeed, a significant minority experience multiple and major challenges, there is strong evidence of resilience and coping within the community. Members of the community report positive experiences, a sense of community, and developed social networks. They also provide examples of coping with challenges, drawing on and providing supports, both through friends and family and engaging with formal services.

The main conclusion of this report is that supporting the development and well-being of children and families in Tallaght west relies on understanding the challenges the community faces, recognising the resources that are clearly evident within the community and identifying the gaps between these as areas for future development.

On the basis of the combined experience of the three prevention and early-intervention programmes, there are three key messages that are advocated for inclusion in the development of policy for children in Ireland: one, mandate prevention and early intervention as a principle of service provision for children and families; two, drive the implementation of area-based approaches to child-poverty; and three, build requirements for evidence-based practice into funding conditions. CDI will launch the programme evaluation reports over the coming months and these will add significant insight to the areas discussed today. We would welcome the opportunity to share these with the committee once they are finalised.

I thank Dr. Guerin for her excellent presentation, for the outstanding submission she made to us this morning and for the indepth findings. I hope that this will be a must-read document for everybody, not only those in public life but those involved in community development, child care provision and the resourcing of child. From reading the report, a strong community spirit is clearly evident. I thank Dr. Guerin and everyone involved for being here this morning.

I am grateful to Dr. Guerin for taking the time to come and meet us here this morning. I recall the 2004 "How Are Our Kids?" survey. One of the impressions it left me with at what was probably the height of the Celtic tiger years was it underscored that it was not a case of a rising tide lifting all ships. Communities were very much left behind. We are now having not merely a glimpse but a fairly detailed look at the same communities at a time of deep recession and it is a powerful testimony to the spirit of people and community. It is a tribute to the families involved that they have shown such tremendous courage and tenacity in coping with the challenges they face. However, despite the positive attitudes we come across, we cannot but be deeply touched by the levels of unemployment and dependance.

I have just come from a meeting of the all-party group on mental health. I am interested in the impact on mental health of bullying among children of school age. The experience certainly carries through to later life and the scars run deep. Approximately 34% of young people aged between 12 and 17 years reported bullying on at least one occasion. Can Dr. Guerin indicate whether this bullying occurred in school settings and can she elaborate further on the findings? The all-party mental health group has agreed to invite a number of experts to address Deputies and Senators on the issue as part of our work programme for the autumn. I note that 27% of adults reported difficulties with anxiety or depression. I suggest that the figure could be much worse than that. I am not very familiar with Tallaght west but even in my own rural and small urban constituency, 27% would not be the whole story. If we are honest, I do not know if anyone has escaped the experience, even for a short time, during his or her adult life. It is something about which a much larger cohort of people know more than they are willing to share.

I am not being party political when I say the evidence presented makes a strong argument against the policy of austerity. Despite the sense of hopelessness in some cases, the spirit of the people overcoming all of these challenges merits tribute.

The finding that 8% of parents wish for their children to secure a good job is a little puzzling but perhaps it reflects a lower expectation rather than a lower aspiration. I would expect a much higher percentage to tick that box in other settings. I note that 45% aspire for their children to do well in education. As a father of five, I would opt for my children to be happy. I ask for a clarification of the methodology because there is potential for misreading the 8% figure in terms of the hope for one's children to do well in life through the best prospects for employment. I suspect it is a combination of educational opportunities and wishing for their children to be happy, which at the end of the day is the common denominator. I commend all who were involved in this exercise, as well as the community for participating in it.

I thank the witnesses for their presentation and research work. Reports can often produce varying views depending on the methodology used. How were the respondents approached? This is an important question when one is trying to drill down into areas where social exclusion is prevalent. There is a higher chance of receiving a response to a letter from a household that is functional. Is it possible that further difficulties have not been exposed by the figures? The research indicates that 11% of respondents reported problems with alcohol or drugs. It is less likely that an individual with alcohol or drug addiction would read a letter in the first place. What methodology was used to recruit respondents? Were they repeatedly approached and were the issues discussed with them?

The research highlights difficulties with societal changes and developments. Was the large influx of migrants into Tallaght west taken into account in the surveys and are any noticeable trends emerging which may signal difficulties in terms of integration or racism?

Some 21% of respondents reported difficulties with former partners and 16% reported regular fights with partners. Do these difficulties involve maintenance, violence or is it a more general question? Anybody who was asked might say he or she had a difficulty with an ex-partner but what type of difficulties did the survey encounter?

Does the report offer any solutions or recommendations to address the more serious difficulties identified? None of us like austerity. I hate austerity and the Government is terrible but we live in the real world and we have to find solutions that do not require endless resources. If our solutions depend on endless resources, we will never get solutions.

I welcome the witnesses. This is a valuable report which gives us an insight into the working class communities concerned. In addition to the normal character of working class communities, there is of course the additional fact that certain communities have suffered greatly from the lack of employment and education. These features are clearly illustrated in the report. It is important to be truthful about these matters because those who have the power to change them should be able to base their actions on a true picture of the affected communities.

The depiction of the character of people's lives could probably be reflected in any other urban centre with a different geography, whether Cork, Limerick or elsewhere. It appears to me there is an essential character to deprived or working class communities. Wherever one goes on this island, the figures may be slightly different but the truth on the ground is reflected in them. Aside from this, I congratulate the witnesses.

The aspect which I admire most about the CDI work in Tallaght is the very positive results for families who have engaged with it, which is very encouraging and uplifting. I went to the trouble of getting the tape of the programme made by RTE, which we probably should have played this morning. With due respect to professionals such as the witnesses I hear more about the CDI from ordinary people on the street and this is on what I base my opinion. It is impressive to hear grandparents speak about four or five year old children being able to read the newspaper or pick out words. It is fantastic and the witnesses should be congratulated. It is always difficult to work in a deprived community. I hope the initiative continues because it has made a very big difference to the lives of people who have engaged with it and people here will testify to this.

I picked up on the figure of 45% of parents who aspire for their children to go to college. If one gets on one's bike and leaves Killinarden or Fettercairn and goes a short distance to any middle-class area that figure will more than double. I dare say 100% of middle-class people would have no hesitation in saying they aspire for their children to go to college. This is a historical issue and goes back generations. If one's grandparents were illiterate it is very difficult for one to appreciate the value of education and how it can change one's life. If one's grandparents were illiterate and this was passed down to their children it will be passed to today's children. I find this in schools where there is a lack of confidence and appreciation of the value of education. This is what the witnesses are changing and they should be congratulated for it.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

I will comment on one or two aspects of the questions on methodology and will then hand over to my colleagues. With regard to how the survey was done, the household survey and the youth survey were conducted slightly differently. The household survey was carried out by community representatives such as Ms O'Reilly and Ms Doyle who are here today. They went door to door with the information to avoid the anonymity of a letter. They approached families in various parts of Tallaght with an invitation to take part. They presented themselves as community members and people who lived not necessarily in the immediate area but in the community of west Tallaght. The survey contains many sensitive questions and much work was done on ensuring they were appropriate and clear for participants.

The Deputy has picked up on the key point. It was a face-to-face survey and people were being asked to answer these questions rather than being asked to fill in an anonymous survey. This was necessary because of concerns about it being accessible for people with literacy issues. The Deputy questioned the accuracy of particular figures and there may have been a sense of hesitancy in reporting on the doorstep. I will ask Ms Doyle and Ms O'Reilly to say what their impressions on the doorsteps were. The youth survey was conducted in a school setting and was filled in by the young people themselves. Where needed they had help, but it was mostly filled in by them.

With regard to the specific question on the results of 8% wanting a good job and 45% wanting to go to college, this may be an artefact of the fact that each adult respondent was asked to identify an indexed child on whom they wanted to report in detail. These children ranged in age from being quite young to being in secondary school. The variance in these figures could be that the 45% are parents of older children and teenagers who may be thinking about college whereas others could be parents of very young children who may be thinking about more immediate experiences rather than a good job down the road. We cannot pin this down specifically but it could be a factor that created some of the variance that does not make as much sense as we would expect. As 141 families were asked to identify one child, this involved a broad range of children and young people and this could be a factor. If Ms Doyle and Ms O'Reilly speak about their experience on the doorstep from the point of view of how people engaged, it might give the committee more insight.

Ms Mary Doyle

I live in the west Tallaght area and I believe it is very important to engage with people by going door to door. When something comes through their letterbox people have a tendency to dismiss it. We went door to door and asked people how they and their families were doing and they felt somebody cared enough to ask them. There were cases where people did not have time and asked us to return, but we engaged with them and asked the best time to return and we were open to calling any time that suited those families.

We found many children were keen to speak with us on the doorstep about Mate-Tricks and the Doodle Den. Sometimes when we mentioned CDI people did not know about it, but if there was a child around he or she would speak up about the Doodle Den. Some of the questions asked were difficult but because I live in the area I was able to say that I experience what the families experience. I am a mother of six children so I know how hard it is to bring up a family in the area. When it comes to questions on depression and anxiety, adults hold back because there is still a stigma attached to being depressed. For me door to door is the way to go. We had conducted previous surveys and people recognised us. We were able to tell them what had happened since the previous survey. It encouraged people to understand that they can have a say on what they need for their families.

Did Ms Doyle find because she was there previously she heard a more honest and personalised story and account from the families?

Ms Mary Doyle

Definitely, and there is a huge issue around confidentiality and assuring people their information is anonymous. Very difficult questions were included but because we had conducted previous surveys people felt none of the information they had given previously had harmed them or their families in any way so they could trust us that the information would be confidential, which is very important with regard to violence in the home and illness.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

I will pick up on some specific questions and will then hand over to Mr. Horan to speak about mental health. Deputy Ó Caoláin asked about bullying. The majority of the youth survey respondents were in school but we also intentionally targeted youth who were out of school. We cannot break down the figures to pin down specifically the difference between the two, but it is safe to say the majority of participants were in school and reported in this context. Deputy Kelleher asked about the migrant participants. West Tallaght has a very mixed population but the majority of respondents in the survey were of Irish origin. When identifying our fieldworkers we worked hard to ensure they came from a broad mix of backgrounds so they represented the people they would meet on the doorsteps. While it is fair to say that the majority of participants were Irish, some of the other nationalities that live and work in west Tallaght had a voice in the group.

A question was asked about difficulties involving former partners. This is a broad category, as it involves issues surrounding children, disputes, etc.

It is not something into which one could read too much, for example, an increase in incidents of domestic violence.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

No. I might hand over to Mr. Horan to discuss some of the mental health issues.

Mr. Joe Horan

I will pick up on three points. It is important to understand how the Child Development Initiative, CDI, engaged with the statutory agencies. The CDI had its own board and its CEO reported to the children services committee - we were one of the four children services committees - with a breakdown of activities. The children services committee had representatives from health, education, the Garda, local authorities, Barnardos and others. We were trying to determine how what the CDI had learned could be translated into changing how matters were handled. The issues of bullying and mental health have been mentioned at least twice. They were raised at that forum as well. As a result, we developed two Jigsaw projects that are kicking off in the county with Headstrong. One is based in Tallaght and the other is based in Clondalkin.

Regarding schools, bullying and engaging with children, one of the ideas we considered at children services level was the concept of a safe place, which translated into the CDI's safe and healthy place project. We also considered how to make a school a safer place in light of the restorative city concept. Many people were trained in restorative practices, many of which are concerned with the appropriateness of a conversation, the isolation of being bullied, etc. I saw examples of young people who engaged in role modelling. That information was filtered through us to the county development board, which represented the other agencies. At each stage, we try to determine whether the learning changes how the front line operates, whether there is a better relationship between the Garda, health services and others, etc. This was an important project.

We were also reporting to a national implementation body that was examining how some of the outcomes could change. For example, anonymising data, data sharing protocols and so on were worked through. In this type of learning, we accept that a problem exists and try to find a response and make a permanent change.

A point was made about resources. We must change the existing resources, for example, the role of a teacher, the way in which the Garda interacts, people's levels of responsibility, etc. Many of our resources are consumed when elements that are fixed and working properly are destroyed through vandalism or so on. We are trying to highlight these issues. It is important to understand that the CDI was plugging into something else.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

I shall revert on two issues. First, Deputy Kelleher asked whether there were solutions. We did not intend to make recommendations in our report, as we believed that different groups would take different messages from our findings. In the CDI, we are conscious that some of the solutions to these challenges sit in the programmes in respect of which evaluations are being finalised.

According to the large report, 50% of young people stated that they read for less than one hour per week. Doodle Den, a programme that promotes literacy and library use among young children, aims to change this type of outcome. While this report does not include solutions, additional work done by the CDI and other Prevention and Early Intervention Programme, PEIP, sites may present us with solutions to tackle some of the difficulties in question. Headstrong, which Mr. Horan mentioned, uses evidence-based work. Headstrong is concerned with identifying what works and promoting its use. We would be more than happy to revisit the committee to tell it of the solutions contained in our other reports, which are due in the coming months.

Second, Deputy Ó Caoláin mentioned the implications of cuts. It is important to remember that this information was gathered in 2010, the height of the difficult period when people were adjusting to austerity and cuts. Having compared 2004's How Are Our Kids with 2010's How Are Our Families, the positives are the result not only of resiliency within communities, but also of investment and support. The CDI has been supported by a combination of Government and philanthropic funding. Other programmes in west Tallaght have received the same support. Obviously, cuts will endanger this situation.

I welcome our guests. I appreciate the report, as I represent a neighbouring constituency that includes Clondalkin and Lucan. Many of the matters on which our guests have reported ring a bell with me. I appreciate the fact that they were able to emphasise many positive aspects. This is important, as getting caught up in problems is easily done. Inevitably, my questions will have more to do with the down-side, since that is where we need to be more on top of matters.

Regarding education, our guests mentioned that one third of children were absent for between five and 20 days. There is a considerable difference between five and 20. The latter is a month of schooling, which is a significant period. Having been a teacher, I know that any child who has missed 20 days is usually in serious trouble in terms of educational progression. Can our guests throw more light on this subject? For anyone involved in education, an alarm bell rings when someone misses that much schooling. It is probably worse for young children, a fact that some parents do not fully appreciate. The foundation in education is important and sets the tone. In this regard, I appreciate the valuable work being done by our guests.

Our guests also highlighted the effects of unemployment. Unfortunately, that scourge will probably be with us for some time to come. I would be interested in our guests' ideas on how to lift communities in the face of that problem.

The report refers to another matter in which I am interested, namely, families in which the father is absent. This was always a concern for me as a teacher and I was conscious of the fact that, for many children, I was the only man in their lives. I hope that I was of some benefit to some of them but it struck me as a serious problem. Will our guests comment on the effect of the lack of a father in many children's lives and how we can deal with it?

I apologise for missing the presentation, although I heard some of it upstairs. I hate it when someone knocks on my door and asks for a few minutes of my time for a dreaded survey. Most of us shrug, claim we are busy, ask the surveyors to return later or so on. However, this report shows how important the dreaded survey is and that people respond to people they know as opposed to a man who has arrived on their doorsteps from Planet X. When people are familiar with areas and faces, it can make a difference to a survey's respondents. This is evidence of that.

I have not read all of the report but on cursory examination it strikes me that people have been very honest in what they said. The trust in the people at the door is evident, as that is very important. I cannot comment on much of the document but it is very readable and I like reports that show facts and figures. Some of the people who come here can make some very boring presentations but one's mind reacts to the figures in this document. I apologise for not really going through it.

There is an issue regarding accommodation. I know Mr. Horan well from my time with South Dublin County Council, and I know the effort that has been put in by the council in accommodation. The area I represent is mostly dealt with by Dublin City Council, with a very small section dealt with by South Dublin County Council. The report refers to small things needing repair, and this is important to people in the daily running of a home, particularly mothers. Other small issues include infestations of ants and mites, and dampness. For many people there is shortage of space, and this is particularly true for people living in flat complexes and apartments and who wish to store items such as children's toys.

The report indicates people's problems very clearly, and when something is mentioned so clearly, it is easier for agencies, including Dublin City Council and South Dublin County Council, to respond. The different Departments can also respond to questions that are raised. The report illustrates how important it is for people to live close to their roots and their family. There was a time when if a person had no sugar or milk, he or she would go next door to get some but, sadly, those days have passed. It was important as there was a dependency between neighbours and friends. The report illustrates that issue. I have not read all the report but I have glanced at it while sitting here. I thank the witnesses for the presentation and I hope we can change some of the statistics in it in the years to come.

I apologise as we had a number of votes in the Seanad so I was absent for the presentation. It is a comprehensive report and my own old local authority area in Cork city would show very similar characteristics to what it contains. It always struck me about the area I represent that not enough support services are in place. The report indicates that approximately 81% of people contacted their GP. I am not sure how the process developed in Tallaght but in some areas GPs are a stand-alone service. Is there a way to develop further services around where GPs are based? If there is a friendly approach by GPs, other services could be built around that. In the survey the rate of contacting the Money Advice and Budgeting Service, MABS, was only 7%. Should we consider more support services around the likes of GPs instead of having the services based in completely different areas? I am not sure how the process developed in the area.

There was a comment from a private renter that the landlord allowed the person to paint and decorate the apartment, which is important. One of the problems we have in Ireland is that we have allowed a clear divide to exist between landlord and tenant, as the landlord seems to take an attitude of total control. I raised the point in the Seanad last week that in Germany, for example, a person might rent a property for anything up to 20 years. The person would have a basic unit, which would be furnished by the renter, leading to several advantages. The landlord's maintenance cost would be lower as a tenant puts in only what he or she wants rather than what the landlord wants, for example.

Could we do much more in developing that type of housing system, especially in the private rented sector but also in public housing? Currently, the owner seems to dictate what the tenant requires rather than taking on board what the tenant would need. Everyone living in an apartment or house has their own idea of what they want, and we do not take on board such ideas enough. This report identifies the issue.

This is a very good report and much work has gone into it. I congratulate everybody involved.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

I will hand over to Mr. Horan to speak about the housing and accommodation issues.

Mr. Joe Horan

Some of the issues outlined by Deputy Byrne emerged in 2004 in the How Are Our Kids? survey. On page 28 there is some detail of the position at that stage. One of the findings in the survey was that young people found their bedrooms cold, and we did a complete survey of central heating systems. That kicked off a complete programme of putting central heating systems into all local authority houses, and as we have approximately 11,000 units, they did not all need such systems. Nevertheless, we worked our way through the process. We also did a doors and windows replacement programme over a period, with some of the work ongoing and issues being resolved on a programme-type basis. That is important as the first survey pointed us in a particular direction and we considered the space children have for homework. The new library in Tallaght has a fantastic area for young people with appropriate desks for homework, and we would have examined community centres with those issues in mind.

It is interesting to consider the difference in results from the How Are Our Kids? survey and the household survey, showing an improvement in each case. That shows that issues are filtering on to the table and being discussed in other fora.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

I will pick up on some other issues. The report attempts to be balanced and the comments regarding accommodation are balanced by the table on page 29 detailing some of the things people like about their homes. It was very positive to see how people made their homes, and this links to Senator Burke's comments about landlords and people having the luxury to make their own home. There was a very strong sense of people being happy in their home, which is their space; people liked particular rooms, for example. That shows the combination of the work that can be done to improve accommodation, particularly given the number of families living in local authority housing. There is an importance in a person's sense of home, whether it is a one bedroom apartment or a house that is bought or rented. There are tables in the report outlining difficulties and positives, and they form a perfect example of lives of people in this area.

Deputy Dowds made some interesting points. We cannot say any more about the breakdown between the five and 20 days indicated in the report. There is probably more in the data but we were conscious that parents can get more nervous when we ask in more detail about higher levels of days missed in school. That would have implications. There were questions regarding a lack of a father in the family but we did not go into that in any detail. We would be more than happy to share the commentary in due course.

I am sorry but a quorum has been called in the Seanad, specifically for Members of the Government side. These are the joys of parliamentary democracy.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

It is very exciting. Some of our other programmes have male teachers and men involved in delivering the programmes, in particular Citywise. Anecdotally there has been a positive response to having another male influencing children's lives and these young facilitators and teachers contribute to the different programmes. While I would not say anything based on the data, anecdotally there is a strong message given. Perhaps Ms Val O'Reilly or Ms Mary Doyle wish to comment on the level of participation at community level and the type of facilitators working on different programmes.

Ms Val O’Reilly

My son is 22 years old. When he was nine or ten years old he went to Citywise and he enjoyed every minute of its activities and facilities. The scheme introduced him to canoeing, mountain climbing and other activities. When I first heard about CDI I thought that it was something that people just talked about and I was cynical because we had heard about so many schemes that were never developed. Having carried out the surveys I now know that CDI has done a lot. People might not know the term CDI but they will know about the Mate-Tricks and Doodle-Den schemes. When I carried out the surveys people told me they had heard about schemes before but now they could see the benefit of CDI and how their children had benefitted. It is very important for children to be educated from a young age and reading and writing is very important. Children's self-esteem will be low and they will be embarrassed if they cannot read by a certain age. It is essential for young people to commence their education at a young age.

Dr. Suzanne Guerin

I wish to answer two specific questions. I shall first answer Senator Colm Burke's question on GPs. One of the points that came across nicely in our executive summary, the short version of the report on page 10, was when one examined medical support we discovered that the role the GP plays was highly rated. The more one moves away from the community to other professionals, such as specialists in psychiatry, the numbers drop off. One can see the same pattern in educational supports where the teacher or the school principal has a much higher rating than an educational psychologist or educational welfare officer. That reflects what I think the Senator was tapping into, namely, the community delivered support. The GP is in the community and the teacher or school principal are in the community. The more those specialist supports are imbedded in the community the more accessible they become.

Deputy Dowds asked how we can lift up a community despite challenges like unemployment which will not go away. We have seen community engagement through our community safety initiative and some other community level programmes. A key factor is participation and supporting participation in the community and by the community. We see it in the Early Years programme where our parent-carer facilitators promote engagement in services and they have had a big impact on the community. We see it in the Doodle Den and Mate-Tricks programmes and where parents engage then their children experience better outcomes than the parents who do not engage. It can also be seen in the community safety initiative programme. The communities and families who engage with the CSI programme have described strong benefits to us. The Deputy asked whether there was something that can lift up a community despite challenges that cannot be immediately removed and it is engagement, participation and empowerment.

Ms Mary Doyle

Immigrant people were mentioned earlier. We came across quite a few immigrants when we carried out the survey door to door and nearly all of the children and adults said that they had experienced some type of bullying. It occurred mostly in the estate that they lived in and they did not talk about outside of the estate. They experienced name calling and their cars were vandalised.

Did the delegation find that immigrants, particularly Africans, kept their curtains closed all of the time?

Ms Mary Doyle

We tried to engage and include them in the survey because many of them live in parts of Tallaght west. They were suspicious of us all of the time. We got them to engage with us and let them know that their voices were also important. Most of them felt isolated in their communities but they really wanted to engage with their communities. From just talking to them we discovered that they really wanted to be a part of their communities and they viewed our inclusion of them as being community engagement. We met quite a few nationalities, including Chinese, Nigerians and Somalians. We included all of them. It is on the doorstep that one can convince people to trust one. We went back even if they did not answer their door the first time. A lot of the immigrants did not speak English but we made sure that children over a certain age were present to translate for them when we asked questions.

I thank the delegation for attending. I thank them for conducting such invaluable research and for their trojan work in the community. As the delegation has said and shown us today, community is about people. I thank the delegation for its contribution to creating a better community. I also thank the members for their participation and I remind them that our quarterly meeting with the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs will take place next Thursday at 9.30 a.m.

The joint committee adjourned at 1 p.m. until 9.30 a.m. on Thursday, 12 July 2012.
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