JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, DEFENCE AND EQUALITY díospóireacht -
Thursday, 29 Mar 2012

Prisoner Transfers: Discussion with Irish Prison Service

Chairman

The purpose of today's meeting is to have a discussion with the director general of the Irish Prison Service on the issue of prison transfers in the light of recent developments. Before we continue, I ask everyone to turn off their mobile phones completely. They should not be left in silent mode because they interfere with the sound system.

I remind members that the handing down of sentences is a matter for the courts and that it is not appropriate for Members of the Oireachtas to comment on decisions of the courts. Also, as they will be aware, there may be further charges arising from the incident in question and they must not make comments which may prejudice further prosecutions. It was agreed that the joint committee would issue a press statement following the meeting. I, therefore, urge members to avoid making public comments on the meeting until it is over.

I welcome from the Irish Prison Service Mr. Michael Donnellan, director general, Mr. Brian Murphy, deputy director of operations, and Ms Carron McCaffrey, director of corporate services, and from the Department of Justice and Equality, Mr. Jimmy Martin, assistant secretary. I thank them for their attendance.

The format of the meeting is that the delegates will be invited to make opening statements which will be followed by a question and answer session. Before we begin, I draw attention to the position on privilege. Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee; however, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they do not criticise or make charges against a person or an entity, by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. In this case, there are certain issues in the public domain which changes the position a little, but we must be cautious. Members should be aware that under the salient rules of the Chair, they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable, although a similar caveat to the one I mentioned applies in the case of this meeting. I ask Mr. Donnellan to make his opening statement.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

I thank members for inviting me to address the joint committee on the policies and procedures of the Irish Prison Service relating to the transfer of prisoners and also the system in place to notify the families of victims of prisoners who escape from custody. As the committee will be aware, there are 14 prisons in the prison estate, of which two, Loughan House in County Cavan and Shelton Abbey in County Wicklow, are open prisons. The open prisons have a combined bed capacity of 270, with 160 available in Loughan House and 110 in Shelton Abbey. This represents 6% of the total bed capacity of the prison estate.

The profile of prisoners in the open centres includes low risk offenders serving short sentences for minor offences, offenders nearing the end of longer sentences whose transfers have been approved as part of the sentence management programme, often following recommendations by the parole board, and well behaved prisoners with a substantial amount of their sentences left to serve who are engaging strongly with therapeutic services and not considered to pose a risk to public safety. Prisoners serving short sentences, i.e., under 12 months, could be moved shortly after committal. Other longer-term prisoners being prepared for the transition back into the community can be considered for moves with two years left in their sentence. In exceptional cases, prisoners who are engaging strongly with the therapeutic services can be considered for a transfer with up to four years left to serve in their sentence.

Open centres play a vital role in the reintegration and rehabilitation of prisoners. The low security environment and independent living ethos provides a transition between custody and a return to the community. Custody in a closed prison can lead to institutionalisation and open centres assist in the pre-release stage by fostering self-dependency among prisoners and by beginning the normalisation process.

The atmosphere in an open prison differs greatly from that in a closed prison. The ethos is that of a community where prisoners must live harmoniously together and violence, bullying and drug use are not tolerated. This allows prisoners to focus their attention on completing studies and availing of the many pre-release programmes on offer. The focus of the education unit in open centres is on providing courses and classes that are beneficial to prisoners post release. Prisoners who may have qualifications and skills have an opportunity to practise, achieve and maintain certification in an open centre. Plumbers, carpenters, painters and gardeners are encouraged to get involved in the day-to-day maintenance of the grounds and buildings. Both open centres have small farms which are operated by the prisoners on a full-time basis under the management of prison staff. Visits take place in a more family friendly environment and are not subject to the same time constraints as in closed prisons. This encourages the maintenance of better family relationships, especially with young children whom many parents will not bring into a closed prison setting. The more relaxed visiting regime is important in consolidating links with family members whose support will prove vital when the prisoner is eventually released back into the community.

Prisoners considered for a transfer to open centres are identified by various means but primarily on the recommendation of the prison governor or the therapeutic services in closed prisons. Prisoners' cases are reviewed on a regular basis in all prisons. At these reviews, the governor and staff and all services involved in the sentence management of the prisoner, including the psychology service, the education unit, the probation service, the prison chaplain and addiction services, offer their views and recommendations. This vital information enables an official from the Irish Prison Service who attends such meetings to make an informed decision on the prisoner's sentence management.

The prisoners, their families or their legal representatives can also apply for consideration for prisoners to be transferred to an open centre. Recommendations are also made by the Parole Board of Ireland to the Minister on long-term sentence prisoners. However, before a final determination is made by the Irish Prison Service several factors are taken into account including the safety of the public; compassionate and humane considerations; the nature and gravity of the offence; the length of sentence served to date and the sentence left to serve; the prisoner's behaviour while in prison; the prisoner's previous criminal history; any addiction issues or history the prisoner may have; and the prisoner's prior record on temporary release.

When a prisoner escapes from the custody of the Irish Prison Service, the Garda is notified immediately. The Irish Prison Service operates a victim liaison service to notify victims. The role of the victim liaison officer in the Irish Prison Service is, where requested, to keep a victim's family informed of significant developments in the management of the perpetrator's sentence as well as any impending releases from custody or escape. Such significant developments might include temporary release, parole board hearings, prisoner transfer, expected release dates etc. The victim liaison officer also provides victims with general information on the prison system such as the prison regime, remission of sentence and the operation of the Parole Board of Ireland. As of 26 March 2012, there were 260 registered victim liaison cases relating to 172 prisoners in custody. Our victim liaison service is voluntary. A victim or immediate family member in the case of a person who has died as a result of a crime must opt in to the scheme if he or she wishes to obtain information about a prisoner. The Irish Prison Service has actively promoted the victim liaison scheme through the Garda, the Courts Service, victim liaison groups such as Advocates for Victims of Homicide, AdVIC, and via our website.

The production of an information booklet enclosing a registration form for victims has greatly increased awareness. The Irish Prison Service has no wish to be intrusive but we are keen to promote our services and to reach out to as many victims as possible. We are fully aware that some victims or families may have no wish to avail of the services at any stage while others will do so when the time is right for them. I thank the Chairman for the invitation to address the committee this morning. I would be pleased to answer any questions.

Chairman

This hearing was called because of a specific incident and members are most concerned about it. Initially, we intended to deal with the matter in private session but because it is fully in the public domain after the launch of the report last night we have decided to stay in public session. I invite Mr. Donnellan to inform us about the incident.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Martin McDermott from Raphoe, County Donegal, was found guilty of the manslaughter of Garda Gary McLoughlin during an incident with a stolen car in December 2009. Following a high speed chase, a Garda car was rammed by a stolen car driven by Martin McDermott and tragically Garda Gary McLoughlin was fatally injured. At the outset, I wish to express regret at the upset and distress recent events have caused the family, colleagues and friends of Garda Gary McLoughlin.

Martin McDermott was remanded in custody on 23 December 2009. He was subsequently convicted of a range of offences, the most serious being manslaughter, endangerment and dangerous driving causing death. He was sentenced to eight years imprisonment on 21 July 2011 with one year suspended. This was backdated to the date he was first remanded, that is, 23 December 2009. His release date was due to be 23 March 2015. He had been held in a closed prison since he was remanded in custody on 23 December 2009. He was transferred to Loughan House, an open centre in Blacklion, County Cavan, from the Midlands Prison in Portlaoise on 3 March 2012, some 27 months into his sentence.

Loughan House is an open, low security prison for males aged 18 years and over who are regarded as requiring lower levels of security. Open centres aim to rehabilitate offenders through education and training. This is linked with a regime which encourages a sense of personal responsibility to assist in offenders leading law-abiding lives on their return to the community.

At the lunchtime check of prisoners in Loughan House on 15 March 2012, Martin McDermott was unaccounted for and a search of all areas including the grounds was ordered. The search was temporarily halted due to a separate incident in the prison and resumed at 4.35 p.m. Staff were still unable to locate him. Officers at the local Ballyconnell Garda station and staff at the Irish Prison Service headquarters were notified at 5.25 p.m. that the prisoner had escaped. On 17 March 2012 Martin McDermott was apprehended by the PSNI in Derry. He is currently in custody in Northern Ireland serving a four month sentence for assaulting a PSNI officer, resisting arrest and criminal damage. It is expected he will be subject to a European arrest warrant in due course.

Prisoner cases are reviewed in all prisons on a regular basis. At these reviews, the governor, the staff and all services involved in the sentence management of the prisoner, including the education unit, the probation service, the chaplain and addiction services, offer their views and recommendations. This information enables an official from the operations directorate of the Irish Prison Service who attends the meeting to make an informed decision on prisoner sentence management.

In the case of prisoner Martin McDermott, the view of prison management and services was that the prisoner would benefit from a rehabilitative perspective from a transfer to Loughan House open centre. He had been well behaved during his time in custody and he had been actively engaged in education and other services. It was considered that his transfer to Loughan House would facilitate family visits, provide him with additional family support and allow him to avail of further educational opportunities, thus aiding his rehabilitation and resettlement. Martin McDermott's case was considered at a sentence review meeting on 23 February 2012. Based on the recommendation of management and services in the Midlands Prison and due to his expressed wish to avail of further educational opportunities in Loughan House, he was deemed suitable by an official from the Irish Prison Service operations directorate for a transfer to Loughan House. The decision maker in question wrongly considered the transfer of the prisoner from a rehabilitative perspective only. The decision maker did not attach sufficient weight to the gravity of the offence for which the offender had been sentenced when making this decision, nor did they take sufficient account of the other criteria taken into consideration. The Irish Prison Service accepts that, in all the circumstances, the decision to transfer the prisoner to an open centre at that point in his sentence was wrong.

I will ensure sentences are managed, with the appropriate balance being struck between care and secure custody, with rehabilitation being given appropriate weighting in the overall equation. All headquarters staff and prison governors will be reminded by me of the need to take appropriate account of all the criteria to be applied in a balanced and considered manner. This should ensure there will be no recurrences of this nature.

I offer reassurance to the committee that measures will be and have been taken to provide for additional oversight in our decision making processes in order to ensure such a decision cannot be made in the future. As director general of the Irish Prison Service, I sincerely regret the hurt caused to Garda Gary McLoughlin's family and colleagues in the force as a result of this decision and apologise unreservedly.

Chairman

Thank you, Mr. Donnellan.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I welcome the director general and officials of the Irish Prison Service and the assistant secretary of the Department of Justice and Equality. This is the first occasion on which the director general has come before the joint committee. I wish him well in his post. His pronouncements have been good and what he has outlined for the Irish Prison Service is ambitious. Perhaps he might have a chance to discuss the matter again.

This is a very dark chapter for the Irish Prison Service, although I do not want to oversell the point. I accept the expressions of regret to the family of the late Garda Gary McLoughlin and his colleagues. I want to walk Mr. Donnellan through the report which the clerk forwarded to us and ask a few questions. He outlined the background to the report and referred to the fact that Mr. McDermott had previously absconded from Loughan House. Was this fact made known to those who made the decision on his recent transfer to Loughan House?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes, it was known.

Deputy Dara Calleary

They knew when they agreed to transfer him to Loughan House, that he had previously escaped from it.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

He had previously escaped from Loughan House on 27 November 2007 and returned three days later. He was then returned to a closed prison.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Surely the fact that he had previously escaped would have sounded alarm bells. Given that he was back in the prison system and had committed further offences, somebody must have questioned why he had been sent back to a place from which he had escaped.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

The Deputy is correct. It should have sounded a lot of alarm bells, particularly given the second offence, but, unfortunately, it did not.

Deputy Dara Calleary

On sentence management, Mr. Donnellan referred to the fact that Mr. McDermott had two P19 disciplinary reports during his two years and four months in prison. What are they?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

There is a P19 disciplinary report when somebody has been involved in an incident of misbehaviour which warrants the governor calling the prisoner before him or her, examining the disciplinary issue and imposing a sanction. It is not unusual for prisoners to have disciplinary reports. In this case, the prisoner had two disciplinary reports during his time in the Midlands Prison.

Deputy Dara Calleary

On the criteria used in deciding on a transfer to an open prison, some points of the case have jumped out at me. Mr. Donnellan indicated that "safety of the public" formed part of the criteria. In this instance, we have an individual with 91 previous offences and who had previously escaped from the prison to which he was being transferred. Surely that says something about the safety of the public.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

There are no excuses. This was the wrong decision in the circumstances. The criteria and the public interest were not met.

Deputy Dara Calleary

What about the nature and gravity of the offence? The man had been convicted of manslaughter, even though he had killed a serving garda.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Surely one of the gravest offences in the State is the killing of a serving garda. The prisoner had a criminal history. I note the need for family support, which is important. I do not want to isolate prisoners from their families, but I am not sure if Mr. Donnellan is aware of the proximity of Loughan House, geographically, to the family home of the late Garda Gary McLoughlin, which is only a few miles away. The prisoner was in an open prison close to the family home. I understand Mr. Donnellan or his representatives met the family yesterday. Can he imagine being in that situation? One family is being ignored.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes, it was very insensitive.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Is the family part of the victim liaison scheme?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

No.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Given the distress caused to the family of a victim of a crime, would be better to have in place an opt-in system, whereby one is automatically part of the scheme, unless one says one does not want to be in it?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Other jurisdictions take that approach. There are circumstances where we are in contact with the Garda Síochána and other services to notify victims or family members that prisoners are due to leave prison, even if they have not opted in to the scheme.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Was the late Garda McLoughlin's family informed when the prisoner was transferred or when he escaped?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Not when he was transferred. When he escaped, they would have been informed by the Garda Síochána.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Were the family informed before or after the news became public?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

I do not know.

Deputy Dara Calleary

On the movements on 15 March, I accept there was another incident in the prison. However, if a prisoner was missing, a call should have been made to split resources to ensure the two incidents would be dealt with. Resources could have been allocated to continue the search rather than stand down for a couple of hours.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

In the circumstances and given the profile of the missing prisoner, one would imagine that is what would have happened. There are low staff levels in open prisons. Unfortunately, priority was given to dealing with an emergency before returning to the search.

Deputy Dara Calleary

The report also states 951 prisoners are on temporary release. Are there any other prisoners in Shelton Abbey or Loughan House who have committed serious offences? Given the pressure the Irish Prison Service is under, is Mr. Donnellan happy the prisoner profile in both institutions is appropriate?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes, I am. The nature of open centres is such that people who have served long periods in prison and committed serious crimes, including murder, are accommodated. Part of the process involves letting them into an open centre in order to rehabilitate them. The challenge in Ireland is to fill the open centres, as can be seen from the occupancy levels. It is very difficult to convince prisoners to move to an open centre like Loughan House because of its geographical location. It has an impact on family visits. A lot of prisoners are happy to stay in Dublin or the midlands where they are much closer to their families. We constantly review the position. Since the incident occurred I have reviewed the people in open prisons. By and large, those who move to open prisons perform very well. Some abscond, but the vast majority return to the prison within days, weeks or months.

Deputy Dara Calleary

On the 951 prisoners on temporary release, did they commit minor offences?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

The profile of those on temporary release covers a range of groups. Some 218 prisoners on temporary release are in prison for defaulting on a fine. About 75 are participating in the community return scheme which was recently introduced by the Minister. Another group is under the supervision of the Probation Service or community resources, while a large cohort are on renewable temporary release and report to the Irish Prison Service.

Senator Ivana Bacik

I thank Mr. Donnellan for his full account. We all extend our sympathy to the family, friends and colleagues of Garda Gary McLoughlin. Mr. Donnellan said the Irish Prison Service accepts that the decision in this case was wrong. Deputy Calleary has dealt with that.

I have one question in respect of this decision. Mr. Donnellan said measures have already been taken to provide additional oversight in the decision making process to ensure such a mistake will not be made in future. What will those additional oversights be?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

The Irish Prison Service makes 350 decisions every week on prison transfers. We make 88,000 decisions every year on transfer, temporary release and so on. Where there has been a loss of life, as in this case, we should have a more robust system to review a case up along the line. The measures I have put in place will ensure that where there is a loss of life, a second reviewer will be in place to scrutinise the case.

Senator Ivana Bacik

We are engaged in a process of looking at penal reform to see how best to effect rehabilitation of prisoners. We have heard about the community return scheme and other innovative schemes. I have a particular concern that this case should not deter the future use of open prisons to aid in rehabilitation and prevent re-offending. In Ireland, we have an extremely low rate of prisoners in open centres. Mr. Donnellan has given the figure. It is less than 6% compared with an average in the Nordic countries of at least one third of prisoners held in open centres. Mr. Donnellan gave a particular reason Loughan House is hard to fill and does not operate at capacity, even though we have so few places in open centres. He said it was due to its geographical location and the lack of methadone treatment. Is there any plan to ensure that open centres will be built in more accessible locations or that closed prisons will be converted? Is it proposed to put methadone treatment in place in open centres so that they could be filled with prisoners who are more suited to them? Clearly, prisoners who would otherwise be suitable for an open centre are not being transferred because they would be too far from their families or because they would not get the methadone treatment they need.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

As the Senator knows, the Minister has asked me to look at the whole prison estate. I hope to be ready to deliver the strategy statement on reform of the prison service to him next week. Reform of the open centres will be part of that. It is not good enough to have 20% or 30% capacity in open prisons while our closed prisons are full.

We are looking at the introduction of methadone to open centres, but it is not that simple. Medical and pharmacy oversight and a range of other things necessitate additional resources. By their very nature, open centres are low-resourced, from a staffing and multidisciplinary point of view. We are going to look at the whole functioning of the open centres. I want them to have higher capacity, but with the right people.

Deputy Alan Farrell

I thank Mr. Donnellan for presenting the report. I apologise for missing his statement but I read the report on my way in this morning.

My questions are concerned with manpower in the premises at the time of the discovery that the prisoner was missing. Mr. Donnellan states in his report that the facility was at 64% capacity. There appears to be a long period between the time the prisoner was first unaccounted for and the time it was confirmed that he was missing, notwithstanding the incident that occurred in the interim. The prisoner was unaccounted for between 12.30 p.m. and 2 p.m. Due to a separate incident, the search for the prisoner stopped for two and a half hours and resumed at 4.35 p.m., before it was confirmed to the local gardaí, a full 50 minutes later, that the prisoner was missing. Were 100% of prison officers present on the day? Would it be necessary for all staff to go to the aid of one prisoner? The incident was serious, but I wonder how many staff were on duty at the time.

I am heartened to hear Mr. Donnellan say the transfer of the prisoner to a location only a few miles from the family home of the deceased Garda member was an insensitive act. I am also pleased to hear him say a more robust system would be put in place to review and scrutinise this sort of transfer. My concerns relate to the time it took for Loughan House to confirm that the prisoner was missing. There was a considerable time between 2 p.m. and 5.25 p.m., when the local Garda station was notified. If someone noticed he was missing at 12.30 p.m., this period extends by a further 90 minutes. I would appreciate Mr. Donnellan's comments.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

The very nature of open centres is that they have an outer boundary but that people move completely freely between different areas of the centre within that boundary. On the day, we had eight staff on duty but they were split up between different areas of the complex. In a closed prison one can call on back-up resources immediately. In an open centre one is relying on what one has. However, Deputy Farrell is right that this does not excuse the long delay or explain why the search was abandoned. In an open prison, a person may be on the farm, in school or somewhere where he should not be. It is a matter of searching those areas to confirm that the person is actually missing. In this case, it does seem that this took longer than it should have done. Eight prison staff were on duty. There were also education and other multidisciplinary staff in the centre on the day.

Chairman

We have covered many areas and I ask members not to be repetitive or to raise matters already covered. Our time is limited.

Senator Martin Conway

I also welcome Mr. Donnellan and his colleagues. Were Garda McLoughlin's family informed of the prisoner's transfer from a secure prison to an open centre? Is it policy in the Irish Prison Service that when there is a loss of life situation, the victim's family is notified of a transfer from one prison to another? If not, should it be? When dealing with loss of life, should there be greater interaction between the Irish Prison Service and the family of the victim?

We recently visited Mountjoy Prison. While this is a very dark period for the Irish Prison Service, what we saw in Mountjoy Prison was very impressive. Overall, the prison service has moved forward significantly, particularly in the last two or three years.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

We have an opt-in system for our victim liaison scheme. In this case, the family was not contacted regarding the transfer. I apologise for that. Generally, we seek a Garda view when we are transferring people from a closed prison to an open prison.

Senator Martin Conway

Not in this case.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Not in this case.

Senator Martin Conway

Was a Garda view sought on this occasion?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

No.

Senator Martin Conway

That should have happened.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes, it should.

Deputy Anne Ferris

I thank Mr. Donnellan for attending. He has acknowledged that terrible errors were made and has expressed his regret about that. I was about to ask about the review of existing prisoners in Loughan House and Shelton Abbey, but Deputy Calleary has covered that. Mr. Donnellan has said the prisoners there have been, or are, being reviewed. Is that correct?

This prisoner had previously absconded from Loughan House but yet was allowed to go back there. How many prisoners in the two open prisons have absconded? When a prisoner absconds from an open prison and is re-arrested or voluntarily returns, is it usual for him or her to remain in the open prison or is he or she transferred to a closed prison?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

In 2011, 86 prisoners absconded from open centres, 67 of whom were returned by the end of the year. In the vast majority of cases, prisoners who abscond are returned to a closed prison.

Deputy Anne Ferris

Are such prisoners eligible for consideration for open prison in the future?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

It is possible.

Senator Martin Conway

How many of the 67 absconding prisoners who were returned to the system in 2011 returned voluntarily?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

The vast majority come back of their own accord.

Senator Rónán Mullen

They just take a little holiday.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

In all cases of absconding the Garda is notified. So far this year, 13 prisoners have absconded from open centres.

Deputy Anne Ferris

Have the 67 prisoners who returned last year and the 13 who absconded since the beginning of the year been returned to the midlands or to Dublin?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

The vast majority of absconding prisoners are returned to closed prisons where they essentially start the cycle again. Most, having absconded from open prisons, are approaching the end of their sentence and are due for release soon. We must then go back three or four steps in order to prepare them for release.

Deputy Anne Ferris

Are such persons assigned to closed prison for a specific time period and, if so, for how long?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes. The duration depends on the individual case, sentence length and the circumstances of the absconding.

Chairman

Is a specific sanction applied to absconding prisoners?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes, there is disciplinary sanction for such prisoners.

Chairman

Is it a chargeable offence?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes. It is a matter for the Director of Public Prosecutions to consider.

Deputy Anne Ferris

Is additional time added to a prisoner's sentence for absconding?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

There is the possibility of loss of remission.

Deputy Jonathan O’Brien

Mr. Donnellan said there were eight staff on duty in Loughan House on the night of the absconsion. Does that equate to a staffing rate of 100% or was there a less than optimum staffing complement on the day in question?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

That is the normal staffing complement.

Deputy Jonathan O’Brien

Will Mr. Donnellan take us through the procedure when it is discovered that a prisoner has escaped from an open prison? Who is notified and what steps are taken? Are the other prisoners assembled in one area?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

As I said earlier, open prisons, by nature of the size of the site and so on, are difficult to manage. When it is established that a prisoner has absconded the first step is to inform the local Garda station and the headquarters of the Irish Prison Service, each of which take the appropriate action in terms of informing others. The chaplain and other prison services will contact the prisoner's family to ascertain whether he or she has made contact. Prisoners in an open centre would have a relationship with several staff within the service and their families would have visited on numerous occasions. The whole emphasis is on returning the person to custody.

Deputy Jonathan O’Brien

My question was more about what happens immediately after the discovery that a prisoner is missing, before the Garda is informed. Who is informed within the prison itself and what resources are put into the search?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

We have a hierarchical management structure within the Irish Prison Service whereby the prison officer would notify the assistant chief officer and chief officer when a prisoner is discovered missing.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Mr. Donnellan indicated that 86 prisoners absconded last year of whom 67 returned. What is the situation in regard to the remaining 19 prisoners?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Those persons are still unlawfully at large.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Is the Garda pursuing them?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes, they are on our list as unlawfully at large.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I completely accept Mr. Donnellan's regret, on behalf of the service, regarding the recent incident. However, going through the report one is struck by the impression that this case featured a complete disregard of the criteria in place for transferring prisoners. Most of the checks and balances one would expect to see were apparently not carried out or seem to have failed on this occasion. Is this report the final chapter in terms of this incident? Will there be a review of disciplinary issues in view of the fact that all the checks and balances were not executed?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

We review our systems on an ongoing basis and I hope we will learn serious lessons from this incident. I intend to review the entire multidisciplinary team system in the context of how this particular prisoner was raised for consideration. I will examine all of these matters.

Senator Martin Conway

Are any of the 19 prisoners who remain at large convicted of murder or manslaughter?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

No.

Senator Rónán Mullen

How active is the pursuit of those who are currently at large and for how long have they been at large? It is bizarre that there should be any such persons in this situation.

Chairman

I assume that is a matter for the Garda.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Some absconding prisoners will leave the jurisdiction. Anybody who is unlawfully at large is on our list and is actively pursued by us. It is not as if we simply sign them off the list. They remain on it until such time as we are satisfied as to their situation.

Senator Rónán Mullen

Of the prisoners currently unlawfully at large, what is the longest individual period of time for which a prisoner has been so at large?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

There are one or two prisoners unlawfully at large since 1995, which is the year to which we look back in terms of absconsions.

Deputy Dara Calleary

Are there any prisoners at large from any of the closed prisons?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

No.

Chairman

It is a major breach of trust and faith when a prisoner absconds from an open prison.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes, and the individual must take some responsibility.

Chairman

Of course.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Our job is about instilling responsibility and citizenship values in prisoners. In this case the outcome was completely flawed.

Senator Ivana Bacik

It is important to bear in mind that only a small fraction of the prison population is housed in open centres. Mr. Donnellan referred to a figure of 6%, while the answer to a recent parliamentary question to the Minister indicated that only 220 out of more than 4,000 prisoners are housed under such an arrangement.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Absolutely. More than 95% of our prison population is in secure closed custody.

Senator Ivana Bacik

I understand there are no open centres for women or for prisoners aged under 21.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Correct.

Chairman

Is it correct that the prison population is currently close to an all-time high? I understand we are reaching record numbers and that the existing overcrowding in many prisons is causing great strain and pressure on the system.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

That is correct. However, in the case we are discussing, overcrowding cannot be an excuse for what happened.

Chairman

However, in the overall scheme of things, does Mr. Donnellan agree that overcrowding is a problem?

Mr. Michael Donnellan

Yes. Last year we had more than 17,000 committals to prisons.

Chairman

I am sure I speak for the committee in thanking Mr. Donnellan for attending this morning and for being so candid in his responses to questions. It is refreshing to partake in such an exchange. Mr. Donnellan came in with his hands up and answered every question that was put to him. He is to be commended on this impressive approach.

We agree that there are lessons to be learned from this incident. The committee takes very seriously any threats to the Garda. We stand four-square behind the force at all times. This particular case is of grave note in that respect. Any type of attack on the Garda or on prison officers is to be condemned out of hand. There is no room for thuggery against our police force. Rather, it must be respected by all citizens and backed up by Members of the Oireachtas.

The committee is very anxious to support the Irish Prison Service and its staff in the context of the difficult job they do. We are also anxious to support the Garda Síochána. That is why we moved quickly to invite Mr. Donnellan to come before us today in order that we might engage in an open and frank discussion on this matter and so that we could express our serious concerns with regard to the particular case in question. It is our intention to send out a message that Members of the Oireachtas are foursquare behind the police force, behind prison officers and behind those in the security services who put their lives on the line in order to keep citizens safe, particularly at a time when there are individuals at large who have no respect for law and order. The actions of those who advocate breaking the law are to be deplored.

I thank Mr. Donnellan for coming before us today and I wish him well for the future. I do not doubt that we will see him again before too long.

Mr. Michael Donnellan

I thank the committee for inviting me to come before it and I again apologise completely and unreservedly for what has happened.

Chairman

I thank Mr. Donnellan.

The joint committee adjourned at 10.30 a.m. sine die.