JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, DEFENCE AND EQUALITY díospóireacht -
Thursday, 17 May 2012

Combatting Homophobia and Transphobia: Discussion

Chairman

The purpose of today's meeting is to have discussions with some of the organisations that work to combat homophobia and transphobia, on this, the International Day Against Homophobia and Transphobia. The committee was eager to facilitate such a meeting and hopes it will help to raise awareness of this important day and send the message that all forms of discrimination are unacceptable in our society. I am very pleased with the positive response the committee received to its invitation to attend the meeting and I look forward to the contributions we will hear today.

There are a large number people present and in order to be fair to everybody, the following arrangements will apply for the meeting. Each group will be invited to make a brief opening statement, which should be kept to five minutes. This will be followed by a question and answer session with members.

I welcome the following: from the Gay and Lesbian Equality Network, Kieran Rose, Natalie Weadick and Tiernan Brady; from LINC, Toddy Hogan and Emma Hurley; from BeLonG To, David Carroll and Marissa Ryan; from Outhouse, George Robotham, Tiffany Fitzgerald Brosnan and Martha Whyte; from Marriage Equality, Grainne Healy and Moninne Griffith; from Transgender Equality Network Ireland, Broden Giambrone and Vanessa Lacey; and from the Garda Síochána, Chief Superintendent Anne-Marie McMahon, Superintendent Karl Heller, Inspector Nuala Finn and Sergeant David McInerney.

I ask all those present to turn off their mobile phones as they interfere with the sound system. Unfortunately, leaving them in silent mode is not sufficient. I, therefore, ask that they be turned off completely.

I draw attention to the position on privilege. Witnesses are protected by absolute privilege in respect of the evidence they give to the committee. However, if they are directed by it to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and continue to do so, they are entitled thereafter only to qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against a person or an entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members should be aware that, under the salient rulings of the Chair, they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Kieran Rose

I thank the Chairman and members, as it is a great honour and opportunity to make a presentation to the committee on behalf of the Gay and Lesbian Equality Network, GLEN, on the various issues facing lesbians and gay men. This is International Day against Homophobia and Transphobia, with special emphasis on schools. Internationally, great progress has been made for lesbians, gay men and transgender people. However, severe difficulties are still being faced, with people being executed in certain countries and backward steps being taken in places such as St. Petersburg in Russia where new anti-gay ordinances were introduced recently.

Great progress has been made in Ireland recently, but there are still many severe problems such as bullying, assault and harassment and the consequent health issues such as the increased risk of suicide. Research data are included in the document we have circulated to members. The civil partnership legislation is the most notable recent example of the progress which has been made. Civil partnership legislation, with the exception of the issue of children on which it is important to make progress, provides for almost all of the rights and responsibilities of civil marriage. It is interesting to note that it has been enthusiastically adopted by lesbians and gay men throughout the country. In the nine months from April 2011 when it was introduced to the end of the year more than 500 couples throughout all counties celebrated their civil partnership. It has also received a popular welcome, as has been seen by anybody attending one of the joyful wedding celebrations for lesbian and gay couples. We wish to stress, however, that it is not a massive legislative leap but an incremental step to civil marriage. We should begin taking such steps now.

Parenting is a critical issue for lesbian and gay couples. The principle is to ensure the child is not disadvantaged. We have set out practical proposals for progress in this area.

Education is a critical issue and the theme for today. Bullying is a very severe issue. To focus on the positives, significant progress has been made. Most important, the ministerial working group is examining these issues. Progress is being made and practical steps can be taken and should be speeded up.

Consideration of issues in the workplace is also critical, as they affect people's quality of life and their ability to earn a living. Significant problems arise and research has identified that up to 25% of people have been bullied at work. However, to take a positive outlook, many companies are models of good practice, including foreign direct investment companies in the private sector, as well as the public sector. Progress is being made as outlined in our document.

On mental health and well-being, there is shocking and robust evidence which shows that 18% of lesbians and gay men have attempted suicide, stating it had to do with their coming out, bullying and isolation. Again, however, positive moves are being made involving representative bodies and medical organisations. We wish to stress practical steps towards making progress should be adopted immediately. This is a critical aspect of the meeting because while elected representatives introduce laws which can benefit the lesbian and gay community tremendously, they can also give leadership to the people, State and private organisations. This meeting gives such leadership.

On the issue of safety, it is great to see the Garda Síochána represented at this meeting. There is shocking evidence which shows that 80% of people have stated they have been verbally abused. Great progress has been made by the Garda and the various agencies involved. However, more must be done in this area in order that true equality will be introduced in people's everyday lives.

I thank the committee for inviting us to come before it. There are significant problems, but significant progress has been made. In 1993 we were criminalised. However, powerful equality legislation was introduced in the 1990s and 2000 and now we have marriage-like civil partnership with moves us towards civil marriage. Ireland has moved from being one of the most inhospitable countries in the world, in legal terms, for lesbians and gay men to being one of the most progressive.

Chairman

As a number of groups will make presentations to the committee which will take a while, if witnesses need to leave early to meet other commitments, they are free to do so after they have made their presentation. A copy of the transcript will be forwarded to each organisation with further questions or points on which clarification is sought.

Toddy Hogan

I thank the committee for giving us this opportunity to represent LINC and address our issues. LINC is a community organisation in Cork representing and advocating for lesbian and bisexual women, locally and nationally. We have identified a number of areas in which action must be taken at Government, legislative, community and institutional level to improve the quality of life, health and well-being of all lesbian and bisexual women and their families living in Ireland.

A primary concern of our community is the need for the recognition of, and a right to, a family considered to be equal in the eyes of the law and society to other families. This is necessary for the mothers and children concerned. It is necessary for society as a whole to accept such families as legitimate, as anything less undermines equality for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, LGBT, families. It is a denial of our relationships, families and parenting roles and subjects same sex couples and their children to inequality, discrimination and prejudice on the basis of sexual orientation. Without these rights, it is easy to see why the opposite can be true in that the lack of recognition and inequality gives LGBT relationships and families a secondary status and promotes invisibility.

The lack of recognition and protection afforded to our children fails to support and protect the rights of children in line with international human rights law. More than 30% of LINC's community members are parents. We need to recognise the non-biological parents as full guardians of their children. To date, a lack of legislation in this area has resulted in the inability of parents to participate fully in decision-making processes regarding their children's health and well-being, particularly in medical issues. Irish legislation does not allow female couples to be assessed for adoption. This means a woman who is not the adoptive parent of a child has reduced parental rights to the child and that crucially the child has reduced rights to his or her parent.

LINC seeks transparency in the family courts. Lesbian and bisexual women and parents have faced and continue to face discrimination in the legal system. An example of this is the right of a husband to apply for annulment based on sexual orientation despite having had a long-term relationship and children. Transparency in the family courts is essential if the judicial process is to be trusted, in that fair and equal treatment is seen to be practised. While we do not advocate the lifting of in camera proceedings, thorough reporting of family court findings would address this issue.

The current two-tiered system of marriage and civil partnership serves to institutionalise inequality, not ameliorate it. Civil partnership is a great step in the right direction, but LINC strongly recommends the implementation of civil marriage.

Regarding older lesbian and bisexual women and elder care, like the rest of society our community has a significant elder population. It is the experience of such women, many of whom have been community activists, that, upon entering residential care, they feel they must go "back into the closet". To date, LINC has not sourced one elder care establishment in Ireland that has a positive policy on this issue. We call on the Government to issue guidelines on this matter.

We ask for the removal of section 37(1) of the Employment Equality Act 1998 in respect of lesbian and bisexual teachers and health care professionals. LINC strongly advocates that lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, LGBT, awareness should be delivered nationally to schools, businesses, communities and beyond. The power of such training in breaking down barriers within society cannot be underestimated. Such initiatives require funding, which is of ongoing concern for all LGBT organisations. We need to reduce minority stress and homophobic bullying. If the work to address homophobia and transphobia is to be effective, it must be from the top down and the bottom up.

I ask members to consider LINC's recommendations for action, as outlined in our submission. I thank the committee.

Chairman

Thank you for staying within time. I invite BeLonG To Youth Service to make its opening statement.

David Carroll

BeLonG To is the national organisation for providing services for LGBT young people around the country. Our aim is to create an Ireland in which such young people are empowered to embrace their growth confidently and to develop without societal detriments. We do this through the provision of safe and appropriate youth work services. We run five weekly groups in Dublin and support the development of groups in 15 locations around the country, with more coming on board all of the time.

We work to dismantle the structural and cultural barriers to young people's participation or full development in society. Some of our work in this regard includes national advocacy and training campaigns, which aim to increase awareness of the issues affecting LGBT young people. We support and commission research so that we can understand more of the issues that affect young people. We also work with Departments and national bodies to ensure that positive structural change occurs in the lives of LGBT young people.

None of this could occur without the input of young people. All of these services are delivered and designed with their full participation and collaboration. In Ireland, there has never been a more visible time to be LGBT and young. "Supporting LGBT Lives", a major 2009 research study carried out by the National Children's Research Centre and supported by the National Office for Suicide Prevention, found that the most common age in which an LGBT young person self-identifies as LGBT is 12 years, with 17 years being the most frequent age for him or her to begin the process of coming out to others. It is that five-year gap about which we are particularly concerned. All too often, it coincides with a time when young people commonly experience homophobic bullying, which remains a pervasive problem in society.

The research found that 58% of LGBT young people had experienced bullying in their schools and that 25% had been threatened physically by their peers. Of most importance to our work, the research showed a direct correlation between this type of bullying and suicidal behaviour among LGBT young people. Simply put, if one is an LGBT young person and experiences homophobic bullying, one is more likely to attempt suicide. The statistics are stark. Some 50% of LGBT people under the age of 25 years have considered taking their own lives and 20% have attempted it. Given these findings, the elimination of homophobic bullying in particular remains a core objective in BeLonG To's work.

One of our recent initiatives and contributions to tackle this problem was our national advocacy campaign Stand Up!, which ran for the third time, was launched by the Minister for Education and Skills last March and has been endorsed by bodies such as the National Association of Principals and Deputy Principals, NAPD. The campaign targets all secondary schools and youth services. We have also been excited to contribute to the development of the social, personal and health education, SPHE, support service's new comprehensive teaching resource, "Growing up LGBT". Our executive director was honoured to be asked to address the launch in Paris yesterday of the UNESCO global toolkit for tackling homophobia, to which BeLonG To has also contributed. As my colleague, Kieran, mentioned, we are thrilled to be taking part in a Department of Education and Skills forum that will examine the issues involved in bullying and, in particular, homophobic bullying. Last May's announcement by the Minister of the formation of a working group to eliminate homophobic bullying is of particular relevance to us and is welcome.

From our work with young people, BeLonG To has a growing awareness that there are often complex intersections of identity, which can result in some LGBT young people experiencing multiple marginalisations. I will conclude by handing over briefly to my colleague, Marissa Ryan, who will discuss an innovative project.

Marissa Ryan

Last year, BeLong To initiated a two-year pilot project on the situation of LGBT asylum seekers and refugees in Ireland. The project is co-funded by the EU's European Refugee Fund and the HSE. Its aim is to improve the safety and quality of life of LGBT asylum seekers and refugees. We initiated it on the basis that, since 2003, we have come to understand through our youth services that these people face additional and severe marginalisation and isolation. We conducted a needs analysis in 2011 and interviewed young LGBT asylum seekers and refugees and the service providers working with them. Following our research, we designed a module that was based on providing training for organisations working with asylum seekers and refugees and LGBT organisations. We also provide one-to-one support for LGBT asylum seekers and refugees.

I thank the Department of Justice and Equality for its engagement with the project so far. Recently, we trained the resettlement unit in the Office for the Promotion of Migrant Integration. We will also soon train the entire staff of the Office of the Refugee Applications Commissioner, ORAC.

Chairman

I invite Outhouse to make its presentation.

George Robotham

I thank the committee for inviting Outhouse to this meeting. As an organisation that does not generally have the resources to pursue policy agendas, yet one that is deeply affected by them, we are grateful to share some of our perspectives with the committee.

We are a business community centre on Capel Street and have operated for 15 years. Approximately 25,000 people per year use our centre. We are a front line service provider and act as a focal point for groups and individuals to self-organise. By necessity down the years, we have provided services around promoting well being and personal development. We have a cafe, a library and a performance space and we contribute to overall LGBT community cohesion.

One of the most important services that we provide is a safe space for people. It is difficult to get across to outsiders how important this is for people in our community. The general perception is that many issues are sorted for the LGBT community, but that is far from true. The people who are visible to the wider public, for example, those in the media and our organisations, are the articulate ones and the middle class. At Outhouse, we see the other side, the vast majority of people who are not out and about whose lives their neighbours, friends and, quite often, families and work colleagues know nothing. Hiding a core part of their existence makes a difference to people.

One of the reports we receive from people is how delighted they are to discover our space. No later than two days ago we received an e-mail from a person stating that although there were no plans to visit the place, knowing it was there was a great comfort to that person. This excellent report supporting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, LGBT, lives came out in 2009 and articulates very well many of the issues facing people who visit our centre. The effects of discrimination and stigma cover a lifetime, and often people come to us who are in their 60s or 70s. These people come from all around the country, as although there may be some services locally, people are so scared that they would prefer to come all the way to Dublin, even if it is a trip of four or five hours. They feel more secure because of this.

State services are not properly aligned to meet the needs of our population. Unlike other communities and issues, front line services are not funded. There should be a better balance between policy agendas, promotion and front line services. I speak not just for Outhouse but for many groups and centres, some of which are not represented here today. The funding is extremely small but we are not looking for special treatment; we are seeking equitable allocation of resources. With State services we must develop creative and cost-effective ways to engage. Currently lacking LGBT concerns must be named and mapped into local policies and programmes but this has not taken place at a grassroots level. It is fine if Departments have the correct policies but if they are not implemented at a local level, it will not affect the lives of people living in that area.

Outhouse must develop collaboration with State agencies, which is very important. It is well recognised that for minority communities like ours, delivering certain services in places where people are comfortable is extremely important. We have a very good model in Outhouse working with the HSE; the executive provides counselling and we look after the administration and organisation of that process. People come to us and ask for the service, and that model can be replicated in other areas. It is important to stress, however, that none of our community groups wishes to take over the proper functions of State agencies. We would like to collaborate with them but most of the small organisations do not have the resources to even give information and support to people locally.

In the Twenty-six Counties there were seven community employment project places allocated to our community centres out of a total of 23,157 in 2010. It is not unusual to see this imbalance in the allocation of resources and it is also evident in other programmes. I add to the voice of my colleagues about the issues facing older and younger people, and we see people from both these cohorts coming to our centre seeking support. It is very important that we have the ability to address the issues.

We acknowledge that significant work has been done and I commend this but we must not fool ourselves. ILGA Europe, an organisation which has also existed for many years, produces a rainbow map and index each year which charts the legal and administrative progress towards full LGBT equality in 50 states. Out of a possible 17, the UK scores highest at 12.5, Ukraine lowest at minus 4 and Ireland, in 2011, scores 5. That is not impressive, and the timescale – nearly a generation - to get even to where we are, has stretched across the formative years of many people.

We recognise that many of the issues we raised are not exactly within the remit of this committee. However, what we ask for ourselves and other groups is support so that we can get an equitable allocation of resources, both financially and in programmes. They should enable us to meet the needs of all sections of our communities. As has been mentioned, we need awareness training in many agencies so that personnel on the ground understand these issues and act in line with the policies of the parent Department. I thank the committee and hope to be able to work with it again at some point in future.

Chairman

The Garda Síochána delegation has another engagement later so we will hear its contribution now.

Anne-Marie McMahon

It gives me great pleasure to acknowledge the work of the various groups currently striving to combat homophobia and transphobia in Ireland. These groups include GLEN, the Gay Lesbian Equality Network, and TENI, Transgender Equality Network Ireland, and they work closely with An Garda Síochána to promote the protection of the LGBT community in Ireland through sensitive police operational practices.

An Garda Síochána works closely with both networks in an endeavour to remain informed of any developments in the area of homophobic or transphobic incidents occurring that may not come to our attention. As a team, we strive to ensure that all members of the LGBT community will understand that on reporting any incident whatsoever, they will be served by An Garda Síochána in a most respectful, dignified and non-discriminatory manner. An Garda Síochána is well aware of the vulnerabilities associated with being a member of the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender communities, especially when a person is the victim of crime.

Homophobic and transphobic incidents present problems which call for a sympathetic Garda response, creating an atmosphere of trust and enabling a thorough investigation to be carried out. Even minor incidents involving either physical damage or injury can have a highly adverse effect on the victims. There is an understandable perception by some people that they are particular targets for crime, personal violence, harassment and abuse by virtue of their sexual orientation. For this reason, over a decade ago, a network of LGBT Garda liaison officers was established to provide a sensitive service to the LGBT community based on the understanding of their needs and fears as potential victims of homophobic and transphobic crime and with regard to their subsequent contact with the police. These officers have contact with local community groups and can employ the means to break down the barrier in seeking police services. The names and contact details of these officers are available on the Garda website or by simply contacting one's local Garda station.

I will introduce part of the Garda racial, intercultural and diversity office, GRIDO, team. They are Superintendent Karl Heller, Inspector Nuala Finn and Sergeant Dave McInerny. They are the senior people in the office. I am grateful for the fact that the organisations GLEN and TENI provide input on training courses, and we use these opportunities to upskill these LGBT officers on best practice in providing a professional police service to the LGBT community.

Members of An Garda Síochána are extremely attentive to harassment of LGBT people in the community. Our members are vigilant of the constant everyday concerns of members of the LGBT community, which include fear of violence, ridicule and discrimination by society; fear of reporting homophobic and transphobic incidents because of perceptions of ridicule, discrimination and inaction of An Garda Síochána, exposure of sexuality or transgender status and lack of confidentiality. These are some of the concerns that I hope our LGBT Garda officers can assist members of LGBT communities to overcome and report any homophobic or transphobic crime or incident in confidence to An Garda Síochána.

It is important for me to stress at this juncture that the service provided by Garda LGBT officers extends to people of all sex and gender orientation who may be victims of homophobia or transphobia. I respect that sexual orientation and gender identity should not be an issue when someone is involved in an incident with An Garda Síochána in any context. We recognise the differences between lesbian and gay communities and other communities and the fact that An Garda Síochána may need to consult separately on the policing of these communities and deliver a Garda service which recognises and respects their needs.

At this point, I would like to illustrate an example of creativity on the part of our Garda liaison officers in the Bridewell Garda station area in Dublin to proffer reassurance to the LGBT community and encourage the reporting of homophobic-transphobic incidents. Outhouse is a centre for the LGBT community and is based within the Bridewell station's catchment area. The Garda LGBT officers attached to the Bridewell host a Garda "clinic", setting up a stall within the Outhouse premises whereby these Garda members meet with people from the LGBT community who attend the Outhouse premises. The Garda members endeavour to provide reassurance and advice relating to Garda services available to the LGBT community. This initiative provides a comfortable and confidential space for LGBT people to engage our services, away from the official Garda station environment. This service has become very well known to LGBT people throughout Ireland as a contact point with Garda LGBT liaison officers. This factor is particularly important for people who may not be "out" and who may feel uncomfortable approaching their localGarda station.

I am proud of the fact that Ireland will host the 6th European Gay Police Association conference in Dublin Castle, during the month of June 2012. The venue is sponsored by the Minister for Justice and Equality, the Equality Authority, Bord Fáilte, An Garda Síochána and the various Garda staff associations. It is intended that this conference will promote networking between An Garda Síochána and European police forces in an effort to endeavour to employ best police practices in combating homophobia and transphobia not just in Ireland but throughout Europe. Finally, our Diversity Implementation Strategy 2009–12, involved consultation with local and national LGBT community groups and organisations. Our strategy on policing of the LGBT community is available to the public via the Garda website and on request from the Garda racial, intercultural and diversity office. This strategy is constantly under review by the diversity strategy implementation team under the auspices of Deputy Commissioner Nacie Rice.

Chairman

Thank you. I now invite the representative of Marriage Equality to make her opening remarks.

Moninne Griffith

Marriage Equality is a national advocacy organisation whose goal is to achieve equality for LGBT people in Ireland through the extension to same sex couples of access to civil marriage, that is, marriage in a registry office, not a church. Currently, LGBT people in Ireland cannot get married. In January 2011, civil partnership was introduced in Ireland for same sex couples and for the first time same sex relationships were recognised and granted many of the rights and obligations available to married heterosexual couples. This marked a truly huge moment, a significant evolution for the State and Irish society. We celebrate it as a significant first step and thank all members of the committee for the parts they played in this achievement.

However, civil partnership is not the same as civil marriage and it is not equality. There is, therefore, more work to be done to end discrimination against LGBT families. Recent research published by Marriage Equality, entitled "Missing Pieces", highlights over 160 legislative differences between civil marriage and civil partnership, ranging from rights around the family home, finance, immigration, legal procedures, parent and child relationships to administrative rules and regulations. However, we are almost there. Public support in Ireland for marriage equality has grown from 56% in 2008 to 73% in 2011. Now is the time for equality for same sex couples and families in Ireland.

More and more countries continue to open up marriage to same sex couples. Currently same sex couples can marry in ten countries, including the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Canada, South Africa, Portugal and Iceland, where the Prime Minister, Johanna Sigurdardottir, married her long-term partner in June 2010 as a new law legalising marriage for same sex couples came into force. Two more countries allow lesbian and gay couples to marry on part of their territory, six states in the US and the capital, Washington DC, and the federal capital in Mexico. Last week President Obama joined other world leaders such as UK Prime Minister, David Cameron, and the French President, François Hollande, as public supporters of marriage equality for same sex couples. This truly is a pivotal time for the campaign for equality for same sex couples, our families and our children throughout the world.

In Ireland, the Government has promised to consider the provision of same sex marriage in the context of a constitutional convention this year. Marriage equality now has cross-party support. It is a core Labour Party policy and Sinn Féin and the Green Party have also supported the right for many years. Earlier this year Fianna Fáil's members passed a motion of support for it at their Ard-Fheis, and Fine Gael members passed a motion calling on the Government to prioritise dealing with, in the words of the programme for Government, "the provision of same sex marriage" in the constitutional convention. For all these reasons, 2012 is a pivotal time for the campaign for equality for same sex families.

The discussions about marriage equality are situated in a larger debate about our values as Irish people and the underlying principles of family, diversity and equality. A total of 73% of Irish people do not want to deny LGBT people the right to marry. They know that denying friends and family members the freedom to marry is wrong, is not fair and has no place in today's Ireland. This reflects Ireland today – our capacity, our understanding and our empathy. We are grown up enough to say, "That person may not be exactly the same as me, but that is okay; they still deserve the same rights as me and to be treated equally." Marriage is about loving committed couples who want to make a lifetime promise to take care of and be responsible for each other, in good times and bad. That is why, for example, spouses can apply to amend incorrect personal information held by the State about their spouse, including when their spouse is deceased. This protection and many others, over 160, are not available to civil partners.

Denying someone the chance at happiness that comes with being married, just because they are gay, seems hurtful to the majority of Irish people. Denying children protections and rights because of their parents' sexuality is even worse. All over Ireland mothers and fathers who are lesbian or gay are raising children in loving homes and doing the best they can for their children, just like every other parent. How can we justify ignoring Irish children and their rights? Marriage Equality's report, "Voices of Children", gave young adult children with lesbian and gay parents the opportunity to come together and document their experiences of growing up in Ireland and the impact the lack of marriage equality and other legal gaps had on their lives. They described experiences of homophobia in public spaces, such as schools, in contact with health services and in private spaces, such as friends' homes. These ranged from parents not being allowed to collect them from schools because they were not recognised as a legal parent or guardian to one boy's friend not being allowed to play in his home because he had two mothers. One young woman told a heartbreaking story, which still haunts me. She was prevented from saying goodbye to her mother as she lay dying in hospital by her mother's parents.

The committee can help to stop this happening. As the Ombudsman for Children said in her report relating to the civil partnership Bill in July 2010: "It should be borne in mind that this is not a hypothetical problem. The omission of robust protections for the children of civil partners will have real consequences for the young people concerned and it is in their interests that the law reflect and provide for the reality of their lives".

Chairman

I must interrupt for a moment to remind everybody, including those in the Visitors' Gallery, to turn off their mobile phones as they interfere with the broadcasting system of the House. We have just received a message about this so I ask everybody to check their phones and turn them off. Putting them to silent is not sufficient. Any wireless paraphernalia should be turned off as well. Thank you.

Moninne Griffith

I refer the committee to the research I have submitted to it, which was published in American Psychologist in 2006. It makes a direct link between the lack of marriage equality and stigma, which has a variety of negative consequences for sexual minorities, including social ostracism, discrimination and anti-gay violence. It is therefore important today to name this link between the marriage ban in Ireland and persisting homophobia and transphobia, including homophobic and transphobic bullying. I ask the Deputies and Senators to do everything in their power to make the necessary changes happen so that our laws reflect the modern and thankfully more inclusive society that we live in, and work towards ending homophobia and transphobia in Ireland. If they are appointed to a constitutional convention, I urge them to vote in favour of provisions to introduce marriage equality. Vote in favour of legislation to protect and respect same sex couples, our families and children and, if necessary, campaign for a “Yes” vote in a referendum.

Finally, members of Marriage Equality are at the committee's disposal if its members require more research or data about any of the issues referred to above, or more evidence of the harm and hurt caused to Irish families because of the lack of marriage equality. Together let us end the discrimination faced by same sex families in Ireland.

Chairman

Thank you. I now invite the representative of Transgender Equality Network Ireland to contribute.

Vanessa Lacey

I thank the committee, the Garda and colleagues for their presentations. While they were similar, they were very different in many ways. Ours is too. On behalf of the Transgender Equality Network Ireland and the people I represent, myself and my family, I thank the committee for inviting us.

I was asked to speak about homophobic bullying a couple of weeks ago and I said I would come along if transphobic bullying was a topic for discussion. In many respects, our issues are many years behind. People have very often not even heard of transphobia, a specific hate crime against transgender people. Trans issues are many years behind lesbian and gay issues so there is a lot of catching up to do.

Transphobia can materialise in many forms, some intentional, some due to ignorance or lack of awareness, and can materialise from rude behaviour to so-called jokes to assault. Trans people and their families experience this unacceptable behaviour on a continuing basis. Transphobia can lead to physical and verbal attacks but these terrifying attacks are sometimes not specifically named on the PULSE system, which I recommended at a recent EGPA conference and we are waiting for a report back on that. We hope to get an idea of the specific crimes faced by transgender people on a daily basis because the effects of transphobia on our community can materialise in physical health, mental health, suicide ideation and suicide rates. The suicide rate in the transgender community is 26%. These percentages are even higher in other countries so in some ways we are doing the right thing but 26% is totally unacceptable as a suicide rate for any country.

I agree with what Toddy Hogan said. There are three words in my mind to combat transphobia - education, education, education. We need to raise awareness of these issues in schools. We cannot let it get to the stage where we are trying to educate people in their 20s and 30s; we must do this while children are still at school. I am a parent; my youngest son is 12 years of age and he is aware of our issues. He is not afraid of those issues because fear causes phobias. If we remove the fear, we do not have the phobias and, in ten years time, we will not be sitting here.

Lack of health care for transgender people is of relevance. The health care system in many respects in the middle of a recession is a worry for everyone but there has never been proper health care for those of transgender. We are now in a recession and find we have even more issues to deal with. People who cannot access health care again face issues of suicide ideation and self harm on a continuous basis.

I am the development worker for the Transgender Equality Network Ireland so I hear people's comments on the ground. People come to me and ring me and we run a national support line. As Moninne Griffith said, access to children can be difficult because parents who are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender people are not seen as good parents. We are extremely good parents if given the opportunity. Someone approached me lately whose arms had been badly cut open after being denied access to her six children. She is going through the courts system but the procedure has already taken 12 months. She had a breakdown and attempted suicide. At the moment she is self harming.

We need just, fair and progressive gender recognition legislation. We do not need a cut and paste version from our nearest neighbours. Other countries have progressive and inclusive legislation; recently, Argentina has put in place very progressive legislation. Perhaps we could look at that to see how we can move forward. We do not want to do a cut and paste job so that when the legislation is enacted, we find it is already outdated. The legislation must be progressive because currently, we are looking at forced divorce and diagnosis of mental illness. I do find that I have mental illness and I know many people who are happily married who do not want to divorce and should not have to divorce to have their gender identity officially recognised.

George Robotham's remarks about a lack of funding resonate. Funding is a major issue. Two years ago we got some funding but we have only seven months before we run out. Since we got that funding, we have gone from two support groups to seven support groups, one being for parents and families, which is extremely important but we only have seven months of funding left.

There must be dialogue with our communities, particularly about legislation; laws that will affect us should include us. We have suffered too long and I urge the committee to take my words to heart and leave the thoughts manifest encompassing growing communities in Irish society in 2012. I thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to come along. I apologise for sounding so passionate but this is an extremely relevant topic for me, particularly because I am a development worker on the ground.

Chairman

There is nothing wrong with passion, we need some more of it.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I thank all the groups and the gardaí for coming in today. Twenty years ago this would have been an illegal gathering and the gardaí would have been here for other reasons. That is an indication of how far things have moved on. There is still a lot of work be done. The BeLonG To and GLEN document stating that 58% of people have reported homophobic bullying in school, given that education is the theme of the day, should give us pause for thought. Schools are the place where we will solve these problems. If we can educate our children on this whole area and get them to respect rights from that age, they will then bring it through their lives. We have a lot of work to do and BeLonG To is doing superb work. GLEN has led the way, and it was not easy to do that work over the years. Many of the groups appearing today owe their right to be here to GLEN. The group got a People of the Year award two years ago.

The economic side of the document struck me, with the strong link between equality, diversity and the achievement of economic goals. We have a lot of economic goals to achieve at present. It was said that 25% of LGBT employees have experienced bullying and harrassment in the workplace. What programmes are in place to target that? There was also a comment in the document that IBM focused on diversity being a competitive advantage. That is an area we do not discuss, the economic argument for diversity and respect. Perhaps the groups would like to come in on that.

Kieran Rose

The economic competitive advantages of equality and diversity are very important. GLEN did a study with Dublin City Council funded by the Equality Authority under the EU progress initiative that looked at those issues across the nine grounds of the equality legislation and how it makes Ireland and Dublin more competitive and more attractive to foreign direct investment across a range of economic areas, such as attracting tourists. If we have hotel stock and the city is accessible for those with disabilities, we can promote the city and country in that way. When one talks about the economic advantages of equality and diversity, it is not to sideline that it is a human rights issue and a matter of social equity but that there are additional advantages. Just as education is a human right, equally we recognise firmly in Ireland that the quality of the educational system is part of the key economic infrastructure, which then, one hopes, will lead in to the funders, the Department of Finance and the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, regarding our programmes as being part of their programmes, and it will increase public and political support.

Deputy Jonathan O’Brien

I have some questions for members of the Garda. I was struck by some of the contributions on education. Maybe it is time that all of us, as legislators, were educated. I doubt that all legislators are aware of the needs and issues facing the LGBT community. Maybe it is time for us to run workshops here to educate ourselves because unless we educate ourselves, we cannot draft legislation to meet those needs.

It is great to see Garda liaison officers in place for the past ten years. How many liaison officers are there? Are they deployed on a regional basis or mainly in urban areas? How are they disbersed throughout the State?

Anne-Marie McMahon

There are 221 LGBT liaison officers throughout the country. They are in every Garda district in the country. In terms of how they are distributed, if we know there is a need for them in a particular area, we would increase the number there. However, we have representation in every district in the country. That is the important point. They are available to liaise, to work with and to assist all of the LGBT communities. From the national office perspective, we work closely with them and assist them in any emerging issues that they may have. That is our role in it.

Deputy Jonathan O’Brien

I am aware that the Garda works closely with groups such as GLEN and TENI, as the Garda representatives stated in their contribution, and the Garda is consistently upskilling in terms of educating itself. How often does that happen? Is it a continuous programme of training and upskilling? Is that available to all members of An Garda Síochána or is it particularly for the liaison officers?

Anne-Marie McMahon

The training for the LGBT liaison officers is specific. They would be trained when they take up the role and then they get continuous training on a needs basis. Any emerging trends and any new developments are brought to a forum where they can upskill themselves. For example, last year all our LGBT officers would have attended a training seminar, either in the Garda College in Templemore or in Dublin.

Deputy Jonathan O’Brien

Would members of An Garda Síochána in general have some level of training in this area?

Anne-Marie McMahon

The Garda organisation, in all its training, has human rights and diversity threaded through all its training programme. The LGBT liaison officers are specifically trained.

Senator Katherine Zappone

I have a couple of introductory remarks before I ask a question of a couple of the groups.

Chairman

Keep them short, if possible.

Senator Katherine Zappone

I will. I acknowledge that my colleague, Senator Bacik, deeply regrets she had to leave. The Leader of the Seanad is on leave and she is taking his place. Obviously, I acknowledge her significant contribution as an activist and law-maker on LGBT issues.

At a personal level, it is tremendous to be here to listen to the contributions to each of those in the groups. Advocacy groups have been working so hard over the years, in addition to An Garda Síochána, in bringing about tremendous change. I acknowledge also the way each person has clearly articulated the outstanding issues as well, and their impact on our communities and what should be done to resolve that. I am deeply grateful to each of them for that.

I want to put on record in this committee a meeting I had yesterday with the Department of Finance. It relates to an issue that Marriage Equality, the organisation, raised. This meeting resulted from my ongoing conversations in the context of our work on the Finance (No. 2) Bill 2011 and Finance (No. 3) Bill 2011 with the Minister for Finance in the Seanad where my contributions were looking to ensure parity of treatment between civil partners and spouses in the taxation legislation. At the time, the Minister took on some of the recommendations for amendments but in light of a piece of research commissioned by Marriage Equality that was fed into "Missing Pieces", which utilised the work of a taxation expert, Dervla Cunningham, to identify a number of outstanding areas in the taxation legislation where there is a lack of parity, at the end of the debate on that latter Bill, the Minister for Finance stated he wanted me to come in with that research to see whether there were other outstanding ways in which there is a lack of parity of treatment between civil partners and married persons. That meeting took place yesterday with Ambrose Murray and Brendan McVeigh of the Department of Finance and Enda Egan and Seán Leak of the Revenue Commissioners. I put on record my extraordinary gratitude for the attitude, openness and intent of members of the Department of Finance and the Revenue Commissioners to ensure that parity of treatment. I think they will bring forward some recommendations.

Chairman

I ask Senator Zappone to get to some questions. Also, I would point out that we try to avoid naming officials in the committee if we can.

Senator Katherine Zappone

Does Marriage Equality want to comment further on that research? Vanessa Lacey of TENI referred to some of the problematic aspects of the gender recognition proposals from the gender recognition advisory group and I wonder whether she wants to expand on those. On some of those problematic aspects, Vanessa mentioned Argentine legislation being passed. Perhaps Vanessa or Broden would talk about those aspects of that legislation that might be a resource for us here.

I have a question as well-----

Chairman

If I may stop Senator Zappone there, we will let these people respond and then come back to her to finish that off.

Senator Katherine Zappone

Fine. I have just one more.

Chairman

Perhaps Marriage Equality would answer as briefly as possible.

Moninne Griffith

I thank Senator Zappone for taking on board the research that fed in to "Missing Pieces". We identified gaps in taxation and other finance provisions and they are listed in our "Missing Pieces" report. There were more than 160 differences. Some of the other differences we discovered related to the family home. There were 25 such substantial differences. There was the fact our homes are not defined as a family home. Instead they are called a shared home. This comes back to the point I made on stigma and how stigma can be a trigger for homophobia and transphobia. Language is important.

Another difference is that in the case of desertion, a spouse in a married couple can apply to the court to dispense with the deserting spouse's consent to sell the family home and that protection was not afforded to civil partners. Also, there are some housing relief grants that are provided where a house is severely damaged by flood, fire or other tragedies and in assessing the level of the grant, the hardship endured by the spouse is taken into account, but that protection was not granted to civil partners. Those are some of the differences. There are many others on legal procedures that are detailed in our "Missing Pieces" report.

Chairman

I want to focus on the matter we are discussing today, which is homophobia and transphobia and bullying. There was a question directed to Vanessa Lacey.

Vanessa Lacey

I will direct that question to our director, Broden Giambrone. I thank Senator Zappone.

Broden Giambrone

I thank Senator Zappone for raising this issue and giving us an opportunity to expand on the issues Vanessa raised. For those who do not know, and as Vanessa alluded, last week the Argentine Senate approved a new gender identity law that allows transgender persons to be legally recognised. What is so important about this new law is that it is based on self-determination. For instance a person applying to be recognised will not be required to prove he or she has had surgical procedures, undergone hormonal therapies or had any type of medical interventions including diagnosis and so on. The law clearly separates a person's legal right from medical interventions, which is huge and is in line with human rights principles. As members will know, Ireland is also in the process of introducing gender recognition legislation. Last year the interdepartmental gender recognition advisory group proposed criteria that must be met for individuals who would like to have their gender recognised. Unfortunately some of these criteria are quite restrictive and will mean that some individuals will be unable to avail of this recognition and will be excluded or discouraged from receiving legal recognition, which, as Vanessa Lacey explained, has a major impact on our community.

I will raise two of the most important issues that have been raised among the transgender community. The gender recognition legislation proposes to require that individuals will need a formal diagnosis of something called gender identity disorder, which is, in fact, a mental illness. So a person will need to be diagnosed with a mental illness before being able to avail of gender recognition. This will obviously be exclusionary for those who chose not to or cannot attain this diagnosis. It will also be exclusionary for intersex people. Intersex is a term for people whose reproductive and sexual anatomy does not fit the typical definitions of male and female. These individuals would also be excluded because they would be unable to attain such a diagnosis.

The second major issue we have with the proposed legislation relates to the exclusion of people in existing marriages or civil partnerships. This will force trans people to break up their families, causing serious hardships for these individuals. We are in touch with several individuals in this situation who will be forced to choose between the integrity of their family and their legal right. We feel this is totally unacceptable. As Vanessa Lacey said, the Government's proposals very much draw on the UK's Gender Recognition Act 2004. We have moved forward eight years and Ireland has the opportunity to build positively on that legislation. The Argentinian law has widely been heralded as being simple, straightforward and reflecting good practice in terms of transgender human rights. We feel strongly that we can build on this example from Argentina and have Ireland lead Europe in the area of progressive gender recognition.

Chairman

I again remind people to stick to the theme with which we are dealing, which is the bullying issue.

Senator Katherine Zappone

I have a question for Toddy Hogan. The presentation indicated there was anecdotal evidence that some lesbians and bisexual couples were having difficulty accessing fertility services. I presume that would contribute to homophobic bullying. Has LINC received any specific complaints in this regard? Would some people have needed or chosen to travel outside the jurisdiction to have access? LINC called for guidelines. Has it also considered making calls for legislative change in this area?

Emma Hurley

I will take that question.

Chairman

Please be as short and focused as possible.

Emma Hurley

I will be very brief. We have been approached by couples who have had negative experiences seeking fertility treatment in the Republic. Some people have sought that treatment in the UK. They were so disheartened they asked us to ring around, which we did. One clinic indicated it had a policy and would make them more than welcome. It is a serious issue for women, whether they be in a couple or just identified as lesbian or bisexual, that they be able to access fertility services on a level par with other women.

Senator Rónán Mullen

I add my welcome to the witnesses. I apologise that I was tied up earlier. There is often a clash of activities and I had to lead off for my group on the Order of Business in the Seanad. This is a good exercise that comes on a very important day. This is an important issue within a wider context of bullying in general, about which we all need to be very concerned. Only today we learned of teachers being bullied on Facebook and appropriate action being taken by the school's board of management. I wear another hat in that I am involved in the trusteeship of 112 voluntary schools, which happen to be Catholic voluntary schools. As Deputy Calleary said earlier, this type of conversation would not have taken place a number of years ago because of fear. Fear can be the great block to open communication between people.

We also have to face another reality. Where people dare to differ from what has become a prevailing set of social ideas, those people can also experience fear about expressing their sincerely held views in a respectful manner. Is there scope, therefore, for co-operation between advocates of LGBT rights on the one hand and people who have a different religious or not necessarily religious but rather philosophical take on human sexuality issues, the importance of marriage in our society and so on? If there is scope for a debate that involved parity of esteem, great progress can be made on the issue of bullying. I would be interested to know if the witnesses agree with me on that.

I will illustrate what I mean. A number of years ago there was a programme aimed at combatting homophobic bullying. A number of voluntary schools felt some of the materials were incompatible with their ethos. That said, those schools would come down hard on anybody who would be a bully, whether it relates to a person being obese, perceptions of a person having same-sex attractions or whatever. We need to be respectful of different philosophies. People have different values and rational underpinnings for their values. We may not always be able to agree with each other but it should not prevent us from being able to co-operate on issues of mutual interest provided there is a genuine respect for the fact there will be differences of opinion and not just a desire to assimilate or overcome certain opinions that are held. That is particularly relevant in the context of our secondary and primary schools, many of which are under religious patronage, although I do not want to exclude this issue to religion.

It was mentioned how schools sometimes felt inhibited when talking about homophobic bullying because of the fear that parents might have that they were promoting homosexuality. There has to be a way for schools to inform parents that they want to make schools a cold house for a bully of any kind, which includes bullying over perceptions of same-sex attraction, sexual orientation etc., but that they are not necessarily out to change parents' deepest held religious or philosophical views about human sexuality, which is a debate for another time to be held in the context of mutual respect. I am somewhat concerned that sometimes the issues are being mixed and I wonder if I can be offered any comfort on that matter today.

Tiernan Brady

The Senator asked if that space could be created. I feel that space exists to a large extent. When it comes to bullying in schools, we and BeLonG To have worked very closely with boards of management, the National Association of Principals and Deputy Principals and those organisations that represent staff, management, volunteers and parents. We have built up a body of guidelines on homophobic bullying specifically in schools, which have been prepared in co-operation. We are very conscious that it is a pointless exercise simply to write guidelines in a room on our own. Devising rules and guidelines to protect young lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people where they are being educated must be done in consultation in order that we can get buy-in. We have been very conscious of that in all our work. There is substantial good product from working together and from creating that space and designing those guidelines. I would be happy to send on to the Senator's office some of the guidelines we have produced in conjunction with staff, parents, principals and deputy principals.

Senator Rónán Mullen

I am very grateful for that response. I know Tiernan of old and we are old friends. Can I take it from what he has said that the Gay and Lesbian Equality Network, GLEN, would be open to working with other patronage bodies - obviously religious school patronage bodies loom large within the Irish scene - towards the production of materials that would be consistent with the ethos they want to promote in their schools, but also consistent with GLEN's objectives, particularly in the area of combatting bullying?

Tiernan Brady

As I said, we consult and work with all of those organisation, including the organisations that represent schools, including those with religious patronage. We can send the Senator the details of that work. I am sure BeLonG To could add further comments to what I have said with regard to the co-operation and consultation that takes place regularly, which is essential.

David Carroll

I agree with everything Tiernan has said. Furthermore, I would remind members that LGBT people come from all walks of life in Irish society. Some of the young people and families we work with have deep religious convictions and represent diversity brought together by sexual orientation and gender identity. For us, it is about working with all young people. Our service is firstly and predominantly a youth service and we target LGBT young people within that. Our most well known advocacy campaigns deliberately target all young people in the school and youth service setting. We realise that the partnership and collaboration of young people is essential. We find they are not generally homophobic and that they are well adjusted, well versed and articulate on issues of sexuality and gender identity in a sensitive and age appropriate way. We truly understand that the way forward towards solving and eliminating the problem of homophobic bullying is through dialogue.

Homophobic bullying sits well into the wider anti-bullying context. With regard to the Supporting LGBT Lives report we mentioned earlier, just 4% of the respondents said anti-bullying campaigns had some dialogue about LGBT issues. Considering the prevalence of the issue of homophobic bullying, we would like to see an improvement in this regard in anti-bullying campaigns and would like to see them address the issue more adequately. We are open to any dialogue and we have continuous dialogue with various bodies on the issue.

Deputy Jonathan O’Brien

I want to comment on bullying in schools. When most people consider the issue of bullying in schools, they presume it is bullying of fellow students. However, does homophobic bullying go beyond students and is there bullying by staff members, principals and boards of management? Is it confined to students alone or is there any evidence of who is involved?

David Carroll

I do not have figures to hand but I know that several Irish studies have shown there are some incidences of homophobia reported from staff, perpetrated by staff in schools towards other staff. The Supporting LGBT Lives report also indicated that some students reported homophobic bullying from staff. It is of course a wider societal issue. However, I would like to emphasise, on this day, that great progress has been made in the Irish education sector, particularly in the past year or two.

Deputy Dara Calleary

The 2009 document indicates that 34% of respondents reported homophobic comments by teachers. Are there any plans to update this document as the research for this was done in 2008?

David Carroll

One of the things we in the LGBT community and other organisations lacked until recently was powerful research. The advancement of research, such as Supporting LGBT Lives, and research produced by other organisations, such as Marriage Equality, has helped because it gives a credible leverage for those issues. We support the promotion of further research which discusses how the problems can be overcome and explores some of the issues not yet tackled in Supporting LGBT Lives.

Deputy Dara Calleary

The report suggests that two in five Irish teachers find homophobic bullying more difficult to address than other forms of bullying. Why is that? It is all right for us to talk about homophobic bullying, but while we stand over section 37(1) being on the legislative books, we are encouraging discrimination. What are the organisation's views on that?

Tiernan Brady

A couple of things can be said on that. It ties into Deputy O'Brien's question too. Bullying is not just active and awareness of the sensitivities required when working in an environment with young people is critical. When it comes to dealing with sexual orientation issues and sexual health issues, many people still feel uncomfortable raising and dealing with issues. As Toddy Hogan said, the real key to moving on is to address the lack of awareness. Raising awareness among professionals, especially those professionals providing State services such as health and education in our schools, is critical because when they are equipped with the information, they will make the right decisions. It is the lack of awareness of information and of the sensitivity required that create the critical lacuna here. That is where progress needs to be made.

Deputy Anne Ferris

I welcome all the groups here today. I know many of the witnesses and have been working with them over the past while. I congratulate the Minister for Education and Skills on the setting up of the national anti-bullying forum. That is a good move and shows we are focused on this issue. Deputy O'Brien mentioned that Deputies and Senators need education on this. The chief superintendent mentioned there were 321 liaison officers working in this area and this was news to me. I was not aware of the role played by gardaí in this area. Will the Garda Síochána send us a copy of any pack it has with contact details on it so that if people come to us with issues, we will be able to refer them to the right people? It would be helpful to have that information.

Does Marriage Equality support the constitutional convention? The representatives from Marriage Equality spoke passionately on the issue of equality, and its groundbreaking report, Voices of Children, outlined the lived reality of children of LGBT parents and the lack of legal protection for them. Will the representatives talk us through the background to the research and some of the recommendations?

Moninne Griffith

This was based on a workshop that took place with young adults with lesbian and gay parents. We would love to do more research, but this is very much bound by the availability of funding. This workshop was the first time a group of young adults with lesbian and gay parents had come together in such a format to discuss their experiences and how the lack of marriage equality and other legal gaps have impacted on them. It was a wonderful day and we produced the report I have shared with the committee. We also had a conference at which Professor Sheila Greene, former head of the children's research institute in Trinity College Dublin, spoke. She peer reviewed international research on children growing up with lesbian and gay parents, and Geoffrey Shannon, a child law expert, spoke about the legal lacunae and what needs to be done. Perhaps Grainne Healy would like to add to this.

Grainne Healy

The most amazing thing about that day was listening to 17, 18 and 19 year olds who had grown up with lesbian and gay parents. They were all really well balanced young people and it was a pleasure to be in their company. We asked them to talk about how this has affected them living their lives. We talked about the school situation and how they declare they have two mammies rather than a mammy and a daddy, when there does not appear to be space for that view. They talked about that difficulty and about issues like their parents getting sick and about only having a kinship right to their biological parent. These are real situations. One of these parents became seriously ill and there was a problem because the person would have to go and live with uncles that he did know, while his biological mother was desperately ill with cancer. The partner who was his other mother had no legal rights to the child. We decided to publish the report because the reality of these children's lives is a "now" thing. It is not something that may happen in the future. Ignoring it will not make it go away, so we would be looking to the constitutional convention as a forum where the realities of the LGBT families can be highlighted. We hope to play a part in the convention and further inform the legislators, so that we will see appropriate legislation on marriage equality.

Chairman

I have one or two questions myself, but I will be very brief. I would like to ask the gardaí about the use of social media for bullying purposes in this area. Have they got a way to deal with that? Have they come across it? Is it becoming more prevalent? I feel it is, but I would like to hear their views.

Anne-Marie McMahon

Yes it is. We in the Garda Síochána deal with that issue through our schools programme. The school liaison gardaí have a module on respectful online communication. They go through the very basic steps on how to deal with it, what to do, what not to do, how to engage with it and how to cut it off at the pass, so to speak.

Chairman

Is there a facility for tracking people who put up hate messages on social media, determining who is doing it and taking action?

Anne-Marie McMahon

It is a fairly long, drawn out process because we are depending on whoever put it up to be a real and genuine person. There are complexities with the issue and it is a fairly involved process. I am not a technical person in any way, but if people have an issue, they should report it at the Garda station and we will engage the relevant expertise within the organisation to investigate that thoroughly.

Chairman

Is there any interaction with the mobile carriers?

Anne-Marie McMahon

Absolutely. They would be our first port of call.

Chairman

Thank you. That concludes our discussion. I thank you all for your attendance today and for the powerful presentations that you made to the committee members. I would like to acknowledge the work you do and to assure you of our continued support in the elimination of homophobia and transphobia, and indeed all other forms of discrimination. We take the point on board that raising awareness and education are so important. We have learned quite a bit here today, and we look forward to working with you all to drive out this form of discrimination and bullying. Thank you very much for being here today.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.35 a.m. until 1.45 p.m. on Wednesday, 23 May 2012.