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JOINT COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE, EQUALITY, DEFENCE AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 5 Feb 2008

Council Framework Decision: Motion.

The next item is a motion re the proposal for a Council framework decision on the application of the principle of mutual recognition to judgments in criminal matters imposing custodial sentences or measures involving the deprivation of liberty for the purpose of their enforcement in the European Union.

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Seán Power, and his officials and thank them for attending and assisting our consideration for this motion. I apologise to them for keeping them waiting so long on account of the very interesting discussion we had on alcohol abuse. Before asking the Minister of State to begin, I advise everybody that we will have a short presentation, followed by a question and answer session.

As it is pancake Tuesday, it seems appropriate that the committee discussed alcohol abuse. The delay was no problem and I thank the committee for the invitation to attend.

The Council framework decision on the application of the principle of mutual recognition to judgments in criminal matters imposing custodial sentences or measures involving the deprivation of liberty for the purpose of their enforcement in the EU arises from a proposal by Austria, Sweden and Finland to revise the 1983 Council of Europe Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons. The issue was first discussed at a meeting of the JHA Council on 27 January 2005. Ireland is a signatory to the 1983 convention which provides a mechanism by which individuals convicted of offences in foreign states may serve their sentences in their home states. In making provision for this facility, prisoners are afforded the opportunity to maintain cultural, domestic and linguistic ties with their country of origin with a view to enhancing the possibility of their rehabilitation. The convention provides that a transfer can only take place subject to the consent of the sentencing state, the prisoner and the state to which it is proposed to transfer the prisoner.

The primary purpose of this new framework decision is to build greater efficiency into the transfer process. The framework decision has been the subject of extensive negotiation at various levels within the European Union in which Ireland has played an active and constructive part. However, unlike the 1983 convention, which has international participation beyond the territory of the European Union, the scope of this framework decision will apply only to EU member states.

The principal changes from the 1983 Council of Europe convention involve the removal of the requirement for the consent of the prisoner and a modification of the requirement for the consent of the receiving state in certain circumstances for a transfer to proceed. Principally, where the prisoner in question is a national of the receiving state and is normally domiciled there, the consent of the prisoner and the receiving state will be taken as given and the necessity to formally obtain it will no longer be required. In place of this formality, will be a facility where, if necessary, the sentencing state can consult the other two parties to satisfy itself that the transfer might assist in the rehabilitation of the prisoner concerned. The framework decision will only apply to prisoners who have been convicted following its entry into force.

Ireland will have a period of three years in which to put in place the necessary legislative measures to facilitate implementation. Ireland has been operating the Council of Europe's 1983 convention since the 1990s, by means of the Transfer of Sentenced Persons Acts of 1995 and 1997. In that time, more than 200 prisoners have been facilitated with transfers to and from this State. The majority of transfers have occurred between Ireland and the United Kingdom.

On account of the number of Irish citizens living abroad, there were concerns that a large number of prisoners who have Irish nationality but who have established their domicile abroad might be suddenly returned to this jurisdiction directly as a result of the framework decision, particularly from the UK where there are currently in excess of 700 prisoners of Irish extraction. As well as having a potentially negative effect on individual prisoners, it could also have resulted in the number of prisoners in Irish prisons increasing by several hundred over a period of years. To a great extent the fact that the framework decision will not be applied retrospectively alleviates this problem. Nevertheless, I am pleased that Ireland and the United Kingdom have agreed to sign a memorandum of understanding on this framework decision which will govern its operation in so far as it applies to the two States. While the framework decision allows states to negotiate bilateral agreements, the terms of these agreements must be compatible with the draft framework decision for them to be valid. In compliance with this condition, the memorandum of understanding focuses on prisoner rehabilitation and the circumstances where a prisoner can be returned without his or her consent.

The United Kingdom and Ireland have agreed that in light of the close historical, community, social, political and linguistic ties between the two countries, the draft framework decision shall be interpreted as meaning that for the sole purpose of determining whether the consent of the sentenced person is required for forwarding of a judgment and certificate to either the United Kingdom or Ireland, a person will not be regarded as living in the state of his or her nationality if, immediately prior to the imposition of the sentence, he was lawfully and habitually resident in the other state.

In other cases, on account of the close historical, community, social, political and linguistic ties between the United Kingdom and Ireland, the draft framework decision shall be interpreted as meaning that the two countries will not, other than in exceptional circumstances, seek to forward a judgment where the sentenced person's consent is not required, as prescribed in Article 5(1)(a) of the framework decision.

Because of the significant similarities between the communities of the United Kingdom and Ireland arising from these ties it is anticipated that there will be significant benefits to be gained from the social rehabilitation of sentenced persons in the state in which they were sentenced. Accordingly, it is the opinion of the two countries that adopting this approach is an appropriate means of giving full effect to the principle of the draft framework decision.

The memorandum makes provision for all transfers between the two states to be conditional on the mutual consent of the two states and the consent of the prisoner in question, effectively maintaining the arrangement which currently applies under the 1983 convention. Deputies and Senators will be aware of Ireland's rapidly changing demographics and of the growing populations of foreign EU nationals in this State. While there is no doubt that the vast majority of these people contribute greatly to the prosperity and social fabric of modern Ireland, it has been the experience of other member states that the inward migration of citizens can have implications for prison populations and a consequential impact on financial resources. It is essential that Ireland takes steps to protect itself in the event of similar experiences here. In that regard, the committee may wish to note there are currently in the region of 200 convicted EU citizens in Irish prisons.

While this framework decision withdraws the provision of consent from the prisoner in the transfer process in certain circumstances, it continues to allow him or her a voice in it. The framework decision also provides the receiving state with a number of grounds under which it can refuse the transfer of a prisoner and the option that no prisoner can be transferred unless the offence of which he or she is convicted is also an offence in the receiving state. All prisoners who are transferred to this jurisdiction will be subject to legislation governing prisoners in this State, most notably the Prisons Act 2007 and the prison rules 2007 which reflect international best practice in the field of penitential management and the provisions of the European prison rules. It is the policy of this State to enforce the sentence handed down in the sentencing jurisdiction.

The framework decision consists of 22 separate articles. I do not propose to allude to each of them. I draw the attention of the committee to the main articles. Article 1 provides definitions of various terms in use in the document. Article 2 places an obligation on member states to identify the respective relevant authorities charged with dealing with this matter. Article 3 describes the scope of the framework decision. Article 3a sets out the criteria applicable for a sentencing state to transfer a prisoner to another state. Primarily this is the state in which the person normally resides, the state to which they would be deported on serving their sentence or any other state that consents to the transfer. It also provides for both states to consult on what is in the best interests of the prisoner where the possibility of their rehabilitation is concerned. Article 5 provides for the notification of prisoners and an opportunity for them to express their views on the transfer.

Article 7 provides states with the option to examine the offence for which a person has been convicted with a view to confirming that the act committed by that person is also an offence in its jurisdiction. Ireland will be availing of this option.

Article 9 provides grounds where a transfer may be refused by a state. Article 13 provides that the law of the receiving state will govern the enforcement of the sentence once the prisoner has been transferred. Articles 20 and 28 provide for members to replace the 1983 convention with the framework decision to negotiate bilateral agreements and for various transitional arrangements, including the option to apply the framework decision on a prospective basis.

I am satisfied that the provisions of the framework decision, in conjunction with the memorandum of understanding negotiated with the British Government, will afford the necessary protections to the State and prisoners alike and enhance the possibilities of rehabilitation for those who come under its scope. I, therefore, seek the committee's support for the adoption of the motion.

I thank the Minister of State. This is a welcome framework decision that I am pleased to support. It is important in the context of mutual assistance and agreements. Some years ago we passed the Transfer of Sentenced Persons (Amendment) Bill. That legislation arose from the 1983 position between Ireland and the United Kingdom, in particular. Although it is now largely addressed, at the time we had a particular relationship with the United Kingdom regarding the transfer of sentenced persons with particular reference to what we describe as the Troubles. There were difficulties between our respective authorities as to the manner in which such transfers might take place. There was a particular concern on the part of the UK Government that we might not be in a position to enforce a custodial sentence which had not been applied by our jurisdiction but rather by the UK authorities. Has this problem been resolved? Is there an issue between our respective jurisdictions following the Good Friday Agreement? It seems that most people who wish to complete their sentence in the other country have done so. There was also a question over the licence arrangement between our respective jurisdictions which facilitated early release. That might no longer be an issue. If that is the case, I welcome it.

How many Irish citizens are serving sentences in overseas jails and how many are seeking to have their transfers effected? Have many failed to have their transfers here effected? What are the reasons given not to transfer? If the Minister of State does not have the information, he or his officials could send me a note on the matter. I would be interested to understand the extent of the transfer of persons both within the European Union and beyond.

I take it the framework decision maintains the 1983 position between Ireland and the United Kingdom, involving mutual consent between the two jurisdictions. There is the applicant state, the receiving state and the prisoner. Between Ireland and the United Kingdom, I understand the consent of the prisoner is a vital component. Am I correct in my assumption that more often than not the prisoner initiates the process in the first instance on the basis that he or she would like to be nearer family, friends, etc.? It is not that the regime here is any less onerous or strict. Applications are made from a social point of view to facilitate visitors.

That leads me on to my second question. Leaving aside the mutual agreement between Ireland and the United Kingdom, it seems from reading the document that an EU citizen serving a sentence in Ireland may be transferred back to another jurisdiction — perhaps the country from which he or she comes, or of which he or she is a citizen — without his or her consent. Is that right? I wonder how it can be considered fair to provide for a process, whereby transfers can take place without the prisoner being the applicant, or without his or her consent. I appreciate that notice might be given, or submissions might be sought. Can prisoners from other EU countries be moved without their consent if they do not wish to be moved? I do not wish to be mischievous when I say that while Ireland is committed to enforcing the penalties, it is not clear from a reading of the interpretation of the Council framework decision whether Irish penalties can be enforced in other jurisdictions to what we would describe as the letter of our law, having regard to the difference between the various criminal justice systems.

If an offender from another EU member state who has been jailed here can be transferred without his or her consent, that might give rise to a shift in approaches to sentencing. It might be deemed convenient to impose a custodial sentence here, in the case of an offence for which we might not necessarily impose such a sentence ordinarily, on the basis that the person will be transferred to another country. That might be done to reduce our costs or to relieve pressure on the hard-pressed personnel in our probation and welfare service. While it might be somewhat perverse to suggest that we could impose custodial services on people to get them out of here, it is possible that it might happen nevertheless. The question of discrimination would arise if it could be shown that an Irish person who committed a certain offence was likely to be given a non-custodial sentence, whereas a citizen of another EU member state who committed the same offence was likely to be given a custodial sentence with a view to being forced to serve that sentence outside this jurisdiction. While I do not want to be anything other than welcoming of this proposal, I am a little concerned that the consent of a prisoner might not be necessary to have him or her moved. I would have regarded the consent principle as important.

I thank Deputy Flanagan for his contribution. I will try to deal with the questions he has asked.

To the best of my knowledge, approximately 750 Irish people are serving prison sentences in other EU member states. Some 20 cases are pending. The normal reason for the refusal of an application for transfer is that the applicant has little or no connection with the member state to which he or she wants to be transferred. The Deputy correctly assumes that transfer applications are generally made by prisoners, before being dealt with from there. The system being operated by the United Kingdom and Ireland requires the consent of the prisoner before he or she can be transferred. Such consent will not be required under the arrangements between Ireland and other EU member states. The 1983 convention requires the consent of both states and the prisoner before a transfer can be made. If one party does not consent to the transfer, it cannot proceed under the 1983 convention. The framework decision modifies these circumstances in the manner I have outlined.

The Deputy also referred to the prospect of prisoners being transferred against their will. A prisoner may be transferred against his or her will where the transferring state is of the view that the possibility of his or her rehabilitation would be enhanced by a transfer.

On the enforcement of custodial sentences, the term handed down by the court is implemented in the receiving state or the sentence is adapted where there is a compatible, if not identical, offence in the state. Where the sentence is adapted, the total time to be served cannot be in excess of the original sentence. In this regard, there is no difference between the framework directive and the 1983 convention. Remission rates in the United Kingdom are33%, whereas they are 25% here.

As far as I am aware, the Privy Council proposes to change the current remission rate, at least in the North, to bring it closer into line with the remission rate here. The stated purpose of the framework decision and the original Council of Europe convention on the transfer of sentenced prisoners is to assist to rehabilitate prisoners. It is difficult to figure out how the rehabilitation of a prisoner or the possibility of maintaining cultural, domestic and linguistic ties could be enhanced in cases where prisoners oppose transfer. Such persons will not be happy to be transferred. Will the Minister of State outline examples of circumstances in which a prisoner could be returned without his or her consent being obtained? We should try to retain the consent element in the directive. There are cases of prisoners in other countries, specifically Britain, having consented to transfer to Ireland only to be refused by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on the ground of a lack of ties.

If the framework directive is adopted, even with the agreement between Ireland and Britain, the transfer of a significant number of people who wish to be transferred could still proceed. However, the authorities in other states may seek to transfer persons who have not consented to transfer because they are difficult prisoners. Ireland would then suffer the consequences. This aspect has not been fully explained.

We should try to retain the element of consent and much more should be done retrospectively. The framework directive will only apply to those sentenced after it takes effect. The rehabilitation of a substantial number of prisoners serving sentences in England would be enhanced, as would their ties to family, if they were transferred now. While the transfer of 700 or 750 prisoners would clearly generate substantial costs, I understand that no surveys have been carried out to determine how many Irish prisoners serving sentences abroad would be interested in transferring to Ireland to serve their full sentence. A significant number of those convicted in England have set down roots and intend to continue living there following completion of their sentence. It could be whittled down to a lesser figure.

The other aspects of the matter are the cost implications and who would bear the cost of the transfer. Is it the receiving state or the state in which the prisoner is currently serving a sentence? Obviously, there is a benefit to the state where the prisoner has been sentenced in that if the prisoner is no longer incarcerated in the jurisdiction, there is a cost saving.

The Minister of State referred to Article 7, the dual criminality clause. He stated there were a number of grounds on which one could refuse the transfer of a prisoner. For instance, no prisoner can be transferred, unless the offence for which he or she has been convicted is also an offence in the receiving state. Article 7 refers to a number of provisions, some of them vague, which would allow for transfer without there being a similar offence in the receiving state. That would be a move away from the terms of the original convention which provided that a state would not take steps to punish a person for a crime committed in another country if the activity or behaviour did not constitute a crime in the home country.

Some of the points made in Article 7 are vague. For example, terrorism is a vague concept. Despite a number of attempts, no one definition has been found to describe what is covered by it. The same could be said for corruption, racism, xenophobia and swindling. There are two or three pages of areas that would not require to be covered. Another point about Article 7 is that the list of categories of offences could be expanded in the future by the European Council rather than by member states. This aspect of the matter has not been addressed.

We have changed our legislation substantially and accept that people with mental disabilities should not be incarcerated but in other EU member states such persons are incarcerated. This is not covered by any of the explanations. Are we happy that an equivalent legal infrastructure applies in all member states in respect of persons who have been convicted of crimes who are suffering from a mental disorder or have a mental disability? When an English group examined this matter, it argued that the transfer of offenders detained under mental health legislation should be excluded from the scope of the framework decision. Can that be done at this stage?

Can the State make the case for the need for amendments to ensure the points I have raised are taken into account and that more of the original intention of the 1983 convention will be reflected in the final version? I welcome the thrust of the framework decision in that people should be able to serve their sentence in their home country, as in many cases people are best rehabilitated where they have cultural and family ties. We should be doing much more for the existing 750 prisoners, including political prisoners, who are serving sentences in England, some of whom would be better serving their sentences in Ireland where they have families.

I thank Deputy Ó Snodaigh for his support. I agree that the main purpose behind it is to assist in the rehabilitation of prisoners. Any move that assists in that must be welcomed.

The Deputy asked about prisoners who might not be keen to return to their own countries or homes. There have been cases where prisoners, particularly those from eastern Europe who had been imprisoned in other EU countries, have expressed no desire to return home. It has more to do with the facilities back home than—

The jails are not good.

Conditions are much better in other European countries. There is an onus on all EU member states to improve their facilities. I hope we will see a levelling off and an improvement in the facilities across the EU.

The approximate cost of keeping a prisoner here is €91,700, which is not an insignificant sum. I spoke earlier about the number of Irish prisoners who are currently serving time in prisons in other EU countries. The figure we gave was 750. I make it clear that this directive will only apply to those convicted after we pass the legislation. We have a period of three years in which to pass the necessary legislation. It will not apply to people currently serving sentences.

We have a system where we keep in regular contact with prisoners overseas and their cases. The Irish Commission for Prisoners Overseas regularly meets and keeps in touch with prisoners.

In respect of dual criminality, what will be put in place will ensure that we will not entertain any requests unless the crime is a crime in this country. It must be a crime in both countries for an application to proceed. If someone is convicted in another country for something that is not a crime here, it will be impossible for us to entertain such a request.

The Deputy is right in respect of the Council. It may decide at some future date to add other categories of offences to the list. They are already included in paragraph one. This can be done at any time after consultation with the European Parliament.

The costs of the application of this framework decision will be borne by the executing state, except for the costs of the transfer of the person to the executing state and those arising exclusively in the sovereign territory of the issuing state.

The Deputy asked about cases where they can be refused. That occurs where the sentence imposed includes a measure of psychiatric or health care or another measure involving the deprivation of liberty which, notwithstanding Article 8.3, cannot be executed by the executing state in accordance with the legal or health system of that state. Generally speaking, the refusals are normally in cases where people do not have sufficient ties with the country to which they are seeking the transfer and a decision would be made that it would not be in the best interest of that person's rehabilitation to agree to the request.

I warmly welcome the Minister and his excellent officials to the meeting and thank him for his presentation, which I fully support. I am shocked that 750 of our people are in prisons in Europe. It is a large number for a small country and does not include those who are on permanent open vacation in the Algarve, the Costa del Sol and so on who may have an adjudication carried out on their reasons for being there. The law has not got that far yet. I endorse Deputy Charles Flanagan's comments. If a written response is to be sent to him, I would appreciate a copy.

Will the Minister of State explain the position on to the principle of mutual recognition of all judgments throughout the EU? We have a common law jurisdiction and common travel area with the UK, but there are different legal operations in other European jurisdictions. There are many non-nationals from other European states in Ireland. Last weekend, my constituency experienced a serious tragedy involving two brothers from European states, one the perpetrator and the other the victim. Another tragedy involved non-nationals driving a car recklessly and 17 of my constituents on a minibus being injured. If some or all of those in question are tried here, a decision is taken and they evade the decision for one reason or another, what measures are in place to ensure they will be incarcerated in their countries of origin to serve their sentences when they land there?

Regarding the civil side of the matter and pertaining to road traffic measures, and so on, if people abscond and are sentenced in absentia, can decisions on penalties and fines be implemented in their countries of origin or domicile? If they are not tried here because they are not present at a particular time and if police in another country identify them, can they be tried there for their crimes or misdemeanours conducted on this island?

I thank Deputy Treacy for his contribution and support. The framework deals with custodial sentences only. If people who are convicted and sentenced in Ireland do a runner, we can ask the second country to enforce the sentence. If people skip the country before a conviction, we can ask that they be extradited to Ireland to deal with the case. I will emphasise that, in cases where convictions have occurred, we can ask our colleagues in the EU to enforce the sentences in the countries in question.

I thank the Minister of State. If there are no more questions, we have completed our consideration of the motion.

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