Next on the agenda is any other business. Do any members have any issues they want to raise?
Business of Joint Committee
On the update on the petition on the flooding in east Cork, particularly in my area of east Cork, Midleton and Mogeely and so on, has that progressed? I have been in touch with a lot of the groups. People in a number of estates formed the group Midleton and East Cork Flood Action Group, which is good because it is non-political. I know that in Mogeely Cork County Council has been dealing with pump works but the residents have been dealing with farmers making suggestions. Even in recent weeks, we have had a couple of flood warnings down our way and people are living in fear. I have the emails. There was an email that included witnesses' statements on how they felt after the flood. Will this petition come up in the coming weeks? I hope we will soon have dryer weather. I raise this matter on behalf of all the people who have been affected by the flooding. Some of them have lost their livelihoods and their homes are destroyed. They are living in fear every time they hear about "localised flooding". I give credit - and some people might not like this - to the councils, which are limited in what they can do. I know it takes time to bring down tranches of money and to do a CFRAM study, but I have read too many CFRAM studies. I think the first time I raised one was in 2017 in here. That was a 2013 CFRAM study. I am anxious for these people because they are living in fear. That is why I wanted to inquire.
I am told that Cork County Council and the OPW have responded and the response will come up at our next meeting.
Excellent. Thank you, Chairman. You are a gentleman.
Is there anything else?
I have a question. I spoke to the Chair some time ago about a prison officer. Has he made a submission?
Yes, he has.
Will we consider the petition without him or will we call him?
We have not spoken about it yet but I would imagine that, as with all petitions, once we discuss it here, the recommendation will be to bring him in and get-----
It is important that we hear from him because, judging from the amount of correspondence I am receiving from people who either are involved in the Prison Service or have left it, there seems to be a serious problem in that organisation that needs to be addressed. In this public forum, I encourage any member of the Prison Service who has an issue to come forward and let their issue be known - that is, if the internal dispute mechanism is not working. What we do not want the committee to become is a sort of sounding pad for everybody with a gripe, but perhaps there is a serious problem with the internal dispute process. That man has been about 30 years trying to get his issue resolved.
The submission is in and will come up for discussion shortly.
That is good. Thank you, Chairman.
I forgot to mention the list of correspondence of the county council about alleged unauthorised developments in respect of Waterways Ireland. Has that list been completed yet? This is starting to stretch out. I have been trying to get information on it through a freedom of information request and I have basically been blocked legally from obtaining answers. I have photographic evidence of stuff that is happening and we cannot get anybody from Waterways Ireland to appear before the committee.
At this stage there are only four councils left. I suggest we move on now without them. We have responses from the vast majority of them. There are concerns there. As the Deputy said, there is photographic evidence, the whole lot-----
Sorry, Chair, for cutting across you. My frustration is that I received the response to the freedom of information request only yesterday, and it politely tells me to - you know the two words I would use. It hides behind legal threats again, and we have had that in committees before. That is why we amended the committee's powers a long time ago to give it the strength to bring people in and be held accountable. It should be borne in mind that this is taxpayers' money. I have it on the record, as I have said previously, that the individual in question admitted at the housing committee that Waterways Ireland is responsible for any unauthorised development. Despite this, the county councils keep coming back with references to Part 8 planning. You cannot involve a county council in a planning issue if those unauthorised developments never had planning in the first place and never applied for planning. It is technically a theft of land from Waterways Ireland, which is the custodian of this for all the citizens of the Thirty-two Counties. Then, when the crap hits the fan, Waterways Ireland blames the county council. This is on the record of a meeting of the housing committee a couple of weeks ago. I asked the individual in question if it was a land grab. I asked who was responsible if there was no planning and it was on Waterways Ireland land and the response was "Waterways Ireland". My frustration is that this has been going on for too long. I just want to know if we will bring Waterways Ireland in here in the near future. The county councils' responses are nearly all the same. They will use the excuse of Part 8 planning and it falling under that remit.
It is the problem we have hit here all afternoon, which is that almost every query that has come before us has three or four Departments involved and nobody takes responsibility.
Yes.
We are not going to make a decision on this at the end of a meeting.
I know that.
We have the responses from all bar four county councils. Members need to sit down now and decide where this should go. I agree with the Deputy. We had been told before that we could not go near this because there may be a threat of a court case coming down the road. This committee, every other committee and the Dáil itself will come to a standstill if the excuse can be used that there may be some legal case down the road. If there is a legal case down the road, we can cross that bridge when we come to it, but this has dragged on for long enough now and we need to discuss it. I ask that it be put on the agenda for the next meeting of the committee, which will be private, and we will discuss where we take it from there.
May I read that statement into the record? It states:
...if the land, which was taken illegally as it is illegal to take land without planning permission, is land belonging to Waterway Ireland, then it is Waterways Ireland's issue, not the council's issue.
Mr. Éanna Rowe replied:
The point I was making is that planning and development are matters for the local authorities under the Planning Acts. Encroachments or alleged encroachments on Waterways Ireland property, are a matter for Waterways Ireland. I hope that clarifies this for the Deputy.
Why are we hiding behind legalities and the suggestion that there might be a court case?
Like I said, we will get it on the agenda for the next meeting and then decide where it goes. Are there any other issues? No.
Before we finish, I want to thank Martha, Alex, Ciaran and Barbara for all the work they do on our behalf. It is massive. As Senator Craughwell said, if people in the community have issues, I encourage them to send in a petition and they will get a fair hearing before the committee.
The joint committee adjourned at 3.01 p.m. until 1.30 p.m. on Thursday, 11 April 2024.