JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 5 Feb 2008

Business of Joint Committee.

Chairman

We have a quorum and I call the meeting to order. Apologies have been received from Senator Ciaran Cannon. The minutes of the meeting of 23 January 2008 have been circulated. Are the minutes agreed? Agreed. Is it agreed that no matter arises from them? Agreed.

Correspondence received since the previous meeting has been circulated to Members. No. 60 is a statement of strategy for 2008 to 2010 from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I suggest we note the correspondence. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is from the press office of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government with regard to the boundary committee in Limerick city. Is it agreed that we note the correspondence? Agreed. After our previous meeting we wrote to the Minister requesting details of other proposals for boundary changes. We will bring this correspondence to the meeting when we receive it.

No. 62 is a press office statement from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government with regard to house completions. We have all seen it and we will note it.

The next item is the national waste report from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. It was issued some time ago and we should note it. I am sure we will return to this topic during the course of the year.

The next item is the newsletter issued by GLOBE Europe with regard to global climate change and I suggest we note it. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is a single copy of a newsletter from the National Consultative Committee on Racism and Interculturalism. I suggest we note it and members may borrow it from the clerk if they wish.

No. 66 is a letter from Biocycle Limited lobbying members with regard to complaints about a waste water treatment system. We can note the letter but we should not involve ourselves in serious allegations. Biocycle Limited is an organisation which provides a proprietary treatment system for septic tanks. I have heard of it in my county. It makes a number of complaints about misleading certification. I suspect all Members of the Oireachtas received a copy of the letter. I received it as Chairman of this committee. Perhaps we will forward it to the Minister for his comments and study his response when we receive same. Is that agreed? Agreed. I am sure people will be interested in this matter.

The final item of correspondence is a letter and policy paper from the Institute of Public Health in Ireland regarding fuel poverty. I suggest we note it. I am sure it has already been circulated by the organisation concerned to the other relevant Oireachtas committee. This concludes our consideration of correspondence.

We discussed a draft work programme prior to Christmas. Since then we received a request from Deputy Christy O'Sullivan to include the new departmental schemes covering the housing adaptation grant scheme for people with disabilities, the mobility aids grant scheme and housing aid for older people. The main complaint I hear is that a form which was one page long is now ten pages long. We will include the matter in our work programme as a change has been made. It is also intended to bring the housing aid for the elderly scheme, which was operated by the HSE, under the aegis of local authorities. I understand it is a slightly more generous grant but it will be means tested. Do members wish to comment?

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

From my recent experience on the local authority in Sligo, it seems that while these grants exist on paper it is extremely difficult to be awarded them, particularly the maximum amount. Is it operated uniformly throughout the country or is it up to each local authority to decide what percentage of grant is paid? In Sligo it does not work satisfactorily.

Chairman

Compared with the previous scheme.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

Yes. The housing aid for the elderly scheme operated by the HSE was much more flexible and generous than the one being operated by the local authority. I do not know if other members agree with me but that has been my experience.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

The problem is that the disabled person's grant is means-tested. I cannot see why that should be so. People who apply for the grant do not do so for the sake of it. They are in a difficult enough situation without having to go through a means-test. If a person has a disability, he or she is entitled to assistance and we should not be putting a block in his or her way. It is hard enough to have to deal with a disability. People do not make applications for assistance lightly. Perhaps there is room for an assessment in terms of the degree of disability, rather than means-testing people who genuinely need the grant.

Chairman

Should we invite officials from the Department to discuss this issue?

Deputy Phil Hogan

Deputy Scanlon made a good point. The scheme should be uniformly applied; if it is not, there must be interpretation issues with each local authority. It might be useful if, arising from a meeting with the Department, an edict could be sent to each local authority on how the scheme should be implemented.

Chairman

In my local authority area the backlog of application forms in hand, namely, forms ERG and DBG, will take more than one year to clear. Such forms will still be processed. The authority will be running the two systems.

Deputy Phil Hogan

In my local authority in Kilkenny people have been asked to reapply.

Chairman

My local authority is still processing the old forms.

Senator Paudie Coffey

For information purposes—

Chairman

It sent out a uniform form, allowing for discretion.

Senator Paudie Coffey

—in the County Waterford local authority area the ERG and DBG forms were sent back. They have now been restricted and the new system is being implemented fully. Obviously, there are different systems operating in the various local authority areas. It would be helpful to receive clarification from the Department.

Chairman

We will invite the relevant assistant secretary or principal officer. We will make inquiries as to who is the appropriate person to speak to in this regard. We want somebody who is practical, rather than someone who simply drafts documentation at a desk. We need to speak to somebody who can tell us what is happening.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

It is very important that local authorities provide enough funding for these schemes because heretofore that has not been the case. I do not know how the funding is being allocated this time but I know that under previous schemes, some moneys were reclaimable from the Department.

Chairman

Two thirds was reclaimable.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

I do not know what is happening now. I am worried, to be honest. My experience is that while the scheme looks good on paper, it is not operating properly.

Chairman

The figures for spending by local authorities have been published in replies to parliamentary questions on various occasions and the biggest problem was that local authorities were not providing for their one third in their estimates. They were not drawing down the funding available for those who needed it because they were not putting up their own portion of the funding required. Local authorities must provide funds in their estimates in order to draw down the balance from the Department. It can all go wrong at that point, if they do not do this. The other issue is that under the new scheme the Department now allows, if there is a surplus on the housing capital side, for example, from the buy back of houses or the sale of sites, the money to be used as a local authority's portion of the funding required. Previously, each local authority had to apply for a concession. We will invite somebody from the Department to address us as soon as possible.

Deputy Eamon Scanlon

I also want to see the evaluations carried out on the work done being addressed. I know of a case in which a shower unit was fitted and some tiling work done in the house of a pensioner who lived alone. The work cost €8,000 but the grant awarded was €1,700. I have many queries about the scheme.

Chairman

We will deal with that matter soon.

I must inform members that Deputy Cregan, Chairman of the Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, seeks to inquire into the grant-aiding of the supply of water to schools. There is no point in us duplicating work. Do members believe this committee should address that issue now? There is a temporary solution.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Another committee is already dealing with the matter.

Chairman

Yes. I do not want to duplicate the work done at another meeting. We will ask the clerk to check the position with the other committee involved.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We should request a note from the Joint Committee on Education and Science.

Chairman

Yes, we will ascertain the current position. If needs be, we will take up the issue, but we do not want to duplicate the work done by another committee.

The next item on the agenda is EU scrutiny. Members will recall that we agreed to revisit the proposal on the regulation of political parties in the European Parliament, COM (2007) 364. We have circulated an additional briefing note which deals with both the regulation and funding of political parties. Do members have any comments to make? Should we defer further consideration of the issue or note the item and move on? Do members wish to discuss the proposal now?

Deputy Phil Hogan

We should note it.

Chairman

Yes; the issue has been dealt with by our sister parties in the European Parliament. We will note the item and move on.