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JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 23 Mar 2010

Management of Severe Weather Events: Discussion with Local Authorities.

As part of our proposed report into the management of severe weather events in Ireland, we have discussed the experiences and thoughts of a number of groups as to how best to provide an emergency response. At our meeting today we will finalise our examination of the flooding of the midlands in November 2009. I welcome some county managers representing the midland areas worst affected by the November flooding. We are joined today by the following: Mr. Gerard Dollard, director of service for community, enterprise, tourism and emergency services in Clare County Council and Ennis town manager; Mr. John McGuinness, director of service in Leitrim County Council; Mr. Shay O'Connor, senior engineer, roads section, Leitrim County Council; Mr. Pat Gallagher, county manager, Offaly County Council; and Mr. Frank Heslin, director of service for transportation and emergency services, Offaly County Council.

I remind the delegates that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this same legal privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the committee. I remind members of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

We will hear the presentations of the three county councils, beginning with that of Clare County Council and followed by those of Leitrim and Offaly county councils. We will then commence a question-and-answer session. I invite Mr. Gerard Dollard to make his presentation.

Mr. Gerard Dollard

My presentation is on the severe flooding that occurred in County Clare in November 2009. The reasons for the flood event were similar to those associated with previous experiences, notably the floods of January and February in 1995 and those at Christmas in 1999. The main difference between them was the severity in the 2009 case. This is best epitomised by comparing the peak flows in the River Fergus in the three events. In 1995 and 1999, peak flows were approximately 60 cu. m/s while in 2009 those peaked at 80 to 90 cu. m. All of this came about because of the usual combination of circumstances that determine whether the centre of Ennis is likely to flood. These include prolonged, intensive rainfall over several days on the run-in to a tidal peak, the tidal peak itself and the exacerbation of the tidal peak by south-westerly winds at critical times.

Ennis Town Council had been monitoring river levels in the early part of November as it was clear from a period of prolonged rainfall that river levels were at a high. During the night of 18 November 2009, the fire service responded to potential flooding of a housing estate on Gort Road in Ennis. On the Thursday morning it was clear that there was some localised flooding on town and county roads and difficulties were being experienced in several locations.

A meeting of personnel under the Ennis flooding emergency plan took place at 9.15 a.m. on the Thursday morning and it was decided to mobilise resources to deal with the problems. Sandbags and pumping operations were immediately commenced and the crisis management centre was established at Clare County Council headquarters. A flooding helpline was set up and media liaison was put in place.

I will indicate the severity of the event. Some 42 mm of rainfall was recorded in Ennis on Thursday, 19 November following on from the 40 mm recorded on Wednesday, 18 November. As events unfolded on Thursday, 19 November, the threat to property was significant and evacuation arrangements were finalised. There were major road closures around Ennis and throughout the county. The inter-agency response that had been in place since early that morning was extended to operate on a 24-hour basis. Army support was sought to assist with sandbagging operations and to provide high-level vehicles for access in flooded areas.

Later in the evening of Thursday, 19 November, a breach of the embankment wall in Abbey Street in the centre of Ennis required the evacuation of part of the town centre. The Army and council personnel worked throughout the night to secure the breach. Sandbagging operations were in place at a number of locations throughout the county at that time.

On Friday, 20 November, Lough Girroga on the outskirts of Ennis burst its banks causing severe flooding at Gort Road Industrial Estate. This resulted in a major threat to power supplies and telecommunications infrastructure. The council at that point engaged the services of a consultant hydrologist to provide an overall assessment of the flooding and to give a forecast for the coming days. Aerial flyover of the affected areas was undertaken at a number of stages during the crisis with the assistance of the Garda.

On the following weekend, work on strengthening flood defences throughout the town continued. A continuous check of water supplies, river levels and infrastructure remained in place. A preventive sandbag operation was also arranged whereby concerned members of the community could obtain sandbags or provide their own sandbags from material provided by the council at selected locations.

Flooding in south-east Clare emerged as a serious issue on this weekend as the flow of water from Parteen weir, operated by the ESB, increased. Discussions were held with the ESB to assess the impact of any further increases in water releases and arrangements were put in place to monitor a number of locations in the south-east Clare area. Serious flooding was at this point evident in Ennis and its environs, Clonlara, Shannon Banks, Sixmilebridge, O'Brien's Bridge, Corofin, Ballyvaughan and other areas of north Clare.

The council issued a flood risk warning for Ennis on Tuesday, 24 November as it was clear from river levels, weather forecasts, advice from the hydrologist and water within the catchment that a very significant risk remained for Ennis in the short term. Twice-daily meetings of the interagency crisis teams were in place from the outset with inputs from utility providers, such as the ESB and Eircom, being provided as necessary. Significant engagement commenced with the ESB over 21 November and 22 November with the focus on River Shannon levels, which were influenced by discharges from Parteen weir. Representatives of Limerick city and county councils also attended meetings of the interagency crisis teams.

A number of evacuations were undertaken in the south-east Clare area in Clonlara and Shannon Banks on Monday, 23 November 2009. The crisis management response was maintained at a very high level during the period 23 November to 27 November 2009 as professional advice obtained by the council indicated a disimprovement in the overall situation. The council reduced its 24/7 response to normal emergency levels on the evening of Friday, 27 November 2009.

Overall, 23 families from the Ennis area were provided with hotel accommodation by the local authority and HSE, with a further 16 families being provided with hotel accommodation in the south Clare and north Clare areas. One hundred and sixty-nine dwellings were affected by the flooding overall and these were spread over Ennis, Ennis and environs, north Clare and south-east Clare. A number of businesses were also affected by the flooding particularly the Abbey Street area of Ennis and Gort Road Industrial Estate.

Following the crisis, the council has undertaken a detailed evaluation of the response both at a Clare local authority level and an interagency level. Overall, this assessment has indicated that the incident was handled well by the agencies involved. Several critical elements were identified as having contributed positively to the level of response in place over the period.

The council has in recent years undertaken a number of training exercises on an interagency basis as part of the major emergency management framework. This ensured that all parties were familiar with their role in the event of an emergency and that strong relationships existed between all agencies. This proved very important in the overall response.

The availability of systems and facilities to support the response through the operation of the crisis management centre at Clare County Council and the 24/7 nature of that support were critical elements of the overall response. Predetermined arrangements for establishing the crisis management centre ensured that telecommunication links and administrative support were put in place at a centralised location from the outset. The use of a 24-hour helpline combined with continual updating of the council's website and extensive use of continual local radio provided a major communications platform to advise and update the public of the status at any particular time.

The deployment of Army personnel at a very early stage in the crisis provided a valuable resource to supplement sandbagging operations and to enable a focus to be placed on strengthening strategic flood defences. The community and voluntary effort that was strongly evident at local level enabled the council to provide materials, namely sand and bags, at selected locations with which the community was able to assist and support those in need and in difficulty.

The agencies and parties involved in the overall response included: Clare local authorities; Clare fire and rescue service; Clare Civil Defence; the Garda Síochána; the Health Service Executive; the Office of Public Works; the Defence Forces; the Irish Coast Guard; the ESB; Eircom; and the dog warden service.

The manner in which the effort was conducted was exceptionally positive together with the very cohesive nature of the overall interagency approach. I acknowledge the contribution of all agencies which gave their total support and committed all their resources to responding to the crisis. The response of the local communities that assisted in operations throughout the period and supported those affected by the crisis through offers of assistance is also sincerely acknowledged.

The second weather event, which occurred in December 2009, was such that frost, snow and ice quickly led to a water crisis in the county. The nature of this event was different from the flooding crisis which had been experienced one month previously. Council personnel and agencies were again mobilised and twice-daily meetings of the council's crisis management team were held to oversee the response. The priority for the council was to maintain access on strategic routes, while at the same time addressing individual critical areas and events — for example, funerals in rural areas — in so far as resources permitted. The council also sought to minimise water cut-off periods by reducing water pressure and, through an extensive public information campaign, advised the general public of the approach of the council. During this event, the extensive use of local radio and continual updating of the council's website with the current position were of exceptional benefit.

The management and disciplined use of salt stocks together with the provision of road grit for community use at approximately 40 locations on a county-wide basis proved very effective. The council also issued early advice to schools to assess local conditions well in advance of the scheduled return after the Christmas holidays. Constant advice was provided to householders and commercial premises on methods of water conservation.

Overall the response of the local authorities, agencies and the communities to the severe events in November and December 2009 was exceptional, given the constraints and difficulties within which the services were operating throughout those periods. The roll-out of the major emergency framework and the very substantial allocation of resources by Clare local authorities and the principal response agencies to its implementation, contributed very significantly to the high level of preparedness for these events. I have attached photographs to the submission, which demonstrate the extent of the flooding in Ennis in November 2009.

I call Mr. John McGuinness from Leitrim County Council.

Mr. John McGuinness

I apologise on behalf of our county manager, Jackie Maguire, who unfortunately cannot be present. She is in plaster after a minor mishap.

We were under the misapprehension we could make a PowerPoint presentation. I have circulated a copy of the slides we had hoped to use and I will talk my way through them. Leitrim was hit with two severe weather events in close proximity. The first was the flooding, which started on 19 November and lasted until 7 December. Towns and villages such as Leitrim village, Carrick-on-Shannon, Jamestown, Dromod and Rooskey along the River Shannon were involved. The flood levels recorded were 30 mm higher than the highest ever recorded in the area. We were barely over that when we were hit on 19 December with frost and snow, which lasted until 17 January. We are used to frost and snow but the difference this time was the intensity of the frost and the duration of the storm event.

I refer to the photographs — I can forward larger copies if the committee so requires — that show the extent of flooding in and around Carrick-on-Shannon. The national primary route into the town was flooded. The R280, which is the principal road out of the town to north Leitrim, flooded on a number of occasions in Carrick-on-Shannon and in Leitrim village. The floods started on 16 November and peaked on 27 November. It was a relatively gradual event and this gave the county council time to deal with threats to the wastewater system in the first instance and then the water supply system, and allowed us to deal with issues such as road closures and so on.

With regard to the response, the major emergency plan was not activated in Leitrim. We did not feel there was any need for it because the response was well within our own capabilities. However, the emergency protocols were followed. A crisis management team met twice daily and we liaised with outside agencies such as Waterways Ireland, the ESB, the Garda, etc. We also supplied daily reports to the major emergency group when it was set up, and the local media, websites and so on were important. We had an issue regarding rumours and counter rumours over the possibility of water being released at Lough Allen and the danger of Carrick-on-Shannon being swamped. It was important, therefore, that we got the message out clearly. All the departments of Leitrim County Council were fully employed in this emergency.

The relatively slow build up of the flood waters allowed the county council to supply 15,000 sandbags to protect property and this was relatively successful. A relatively small number of houses were flooded in Leitrim, despite the magnitude of the flood. Our priority was to do things like keep the national primary route open and provide suitable diversions as flood waters took out different roads. Pedestrians within towns and villages also had to be accommodated and we did temporary works to accommodate that. Approximately 50 staff worked full time on that, many of them around the clock.

The next photograph is of Cryans hotel in the centre of Carrick-on-Shannon. This would have been flooded but for the heroic efforts of the council staff and the owners, which prevented the water getting in and the hotel survived. We were pleased about that. The next slide relates to a clever idea for a temporary boardwalk. This scaffolding was erected along a 200m stretch through the flood, which allowed access from the housing estates into the town.

From the water services point of view, the priority had to be keeping the south Leitrim regional water supply intake intact. This serves 60% of the population in the county. Leitrim was lucky in that unlike Cork, we were able to take action to protect the supply. Prompt action by the water services staff allowed the control panels to be raised above the flood level. There was a limit to what could be done in this regard and, therefore, we thought it prudent at the time to put in a temporary pumping facility. Fortunately, we did not have to use it but it is good to know it is there if we need it.

I refer to the economic effect. Approximately 38 properties were flooded in County Leitrim — 23 residential, 12 commercial and three offices. However, economic activity in the town was suspended for the duration of the flood. One large hotel, two restaurants, two garages, a large hardware business and a number of shop units closed. Unfortunately, the hardware business has not reopened yet.

In excess of €600,000 was spent by the county council. This covered the provision of sandbags, labour and the cost of cleaning up after the operation. It did not include costs for damage to county roads or roads used as detours. We estimate that could be in excess of €1.8 million. As no further funding will be made available this year, this money will have to be taken out of our normal road grants.

One of the other challenges we faced with the flooding related to the wastewater system. The networks in the villages were under water and there was a severe threat to the sewerage system. Fortunately, the main pumping station in Carrick-on-Shannon was kept going by means of 24-hour pumping and that prevented a major problem. We were pleased that at least while some areas in the town had only partial sewerage facilities for up to two weeks, most of the town succeeded in carrying on regardless, which was quite good.

I refer to what can be done in the future. It is not acceptable that regional and national primary roads can be cut off and towns and villages isolated. It is possible to raise the road levels above flood level but we estimate that would cost in excess of €4 million around Carrick-on-Shannon. A detailed cost benefit analysis would be required. However, significant flood prevention and defence measures will be required to prevent flooding of businesses and properties and a detailed analysis of the River Shannon basin would be required before any such work could be carried out. National funding would be essential.

There was confusion as to which body was responsible for the river. Was it Waterways Ireland, the OPW, the ESB or the local authorities? It is clear there is a need for a single authority to control the levels of the river and all the stakeholders need to be involved in that. Major emergency plans must include contact numbers for senior personnel in the various agencies and their roles and responsibilities should be clearly identified. When we contacted them, it was dial 1 for this and 2 for that and that is not acceptable in a crisis. Communications are vital. We strive at all times to be clear, easily understood and to the point. Communications need to deal with the public's concerns, whether real or imaginary. That was a major issue for us. There were many rumours and counter rumours with which we had to deal. That took a great deal of time in the middle of all the other activities we had to deal with. We need a detailed study of the cause of flooding in the upper Shannon and the question of the storage capability of Lough Allen must be addressed. Can it be increased and what would the effect be on Carrick-on-Shannon? The influence of the Boyle river, which contributes approximately 60% of the water that comes to Carrick-on-Shannon, is another factor. There are currently no studies on that and nobody has a handle on the effect on flood waters in Carrick-on-Shannon. The Shannon-Erne waterway was largely responsible for the flooding in Leitrim village and this issue must be considered and studied separately. Possible flood defences must be analysed, costed and worked out. The Jamestown weir has arisen in our discussions with the various bodies as a possible controlling factor for flood levels in Carrick-on-Shannon. These are all complex issues and require detailed study.

The response on the issue of the frost was different. Our situation started on 19 December and continued until 17 January. The prolonged nature and intensity of the frost made this a serious event. We had significant problems in two main areas, roads and water services. Leitrim County Council's policy on gritting is set out in the severe weather plan. The basic aim of the plan is to keep our national primary routes and significant regional roads clear. On 19 December, we received a snow warning and in advance of the snow, all of the national primary routes and regional roads in the county were salted. In total, some 75 km of national routes and 275 km of regional roads were salted. Over the following 23 days, all of the national and regional routes were gritted at least once a day. The national primary routes were possibly done two or three times a day. It is not possible to grit every road, but local roads were attended to on a case by case basis. Priority was given to routes where there would be funerals and routes used by district doctors and nurses and so on. We set up a dedicated manned hotline from 28 December and all traffic routes within the county were kept "passable with care". Over the period, all of the council staff were actively involved in this work. Given the prolonged nature of the event, in the last week it was decided to accept the offer from the Army to grit private housing estates. This was useful and the Army was a great help to the council.

Some 1,800 tonnes of salt were used during the 23-day period. This equates to a normal full year's supply. An additional 2,000 tonnes of grit were used on regional and local roads. Grit was deposited on hills and at junctions and was made available for collection at council depots. While salt was difficult to obtain and had to be retained for the national routes, Leitrim County Council had supplies for three or four days at all times. Mixing salt and grit was effective and conserved salt.

On the issue of problems with regard to water supply, just before Christmas, we noticed that water demand had increased by 40%. On 24 December, the reservoirs became dangerously low and Leitrim County Council began active management, with curtailing, rationing and turning off supplies at night. From 24 December through January, through the holiday period, the water services staff worked 12-hour days to address the water shortages and share out the available water as best they could. Typical causes of the shortages were: taps left running to prevent pipes from freezing, frozen and burst pipes in unoccupied houses and leaks in the public mains and in group schemes. We had a particular problem with group schemes where effective committees no longer existed. Over one-third of all the water produced by Leitrim County Council is distributed to customers through private group water schemes.

The major emergency plan was not activated, but the protocols were followed. The crisis management team convened on 27 December and had daily meetings thereafter. Dedicated hotlines were set up on 29 December to deal with customer queries and to advise the public on how to deal with frost related problems on their property. Detailed briefings on water outages, road conditions and so on were placed on the council's websites and provided to the national and local media on a daily basis. We made extensive use of the local radio system. Our staff were also made available to group water scheme groups to advise them on leak detection and so on. Due to the shortage of water, the fire service was required to provide water tankers at various locations throughout the county. That lasted for approximately one and a half weeks. The Civil Defence was very involved in the council's response, looking after vulnerable people and assisting public health nurses and the HSE with 4X4 ambulances.

Everything has a cost. The total cost to Leitrim County Council of its response was €850,000, a sum the council does not have. The issue for the future is that we must have clarity with regard to the level of service required or that can be afforded within the budget available. The question of the priority that should be given to keeping footpaths clear became an important issue for us. We had to consider whether they were as important as roads or whether roads were more important and whether the responsibility for clearing outside premises should be placed on property owners. We need clarity on public liability implications where members of the public are involved in gritting roads. This issue was an impediment to some communities working to help themselves. However, as the storm developed, people had to get over that and do what they could.

We need salt to be procured nationally and distributed fairly. There was an unseemly rush to Cork, Limerick and various places by all county councils trying to get salt, resulting in queues. Salt should be procured nationally, but there should be a clear policy to ensure every county gets its fair share of it. While we could never maintain the sort of stockpile of salt that was required this year, we need to increase facilities for storing salt and for maintaining an increased stockpile.

Thank you. We will move on now to the county manager of Offaly County Council to make his presentation.

Mr. Pat Gallagher

I thank the Chairman and the members of the joint committee for their invitation to be here and for their interest in this issue. Over the past year and a half, Offaly has experienced three severe weather events. There was county-wide flooding in August 2008, severe flooding near the River Shannon last November and the recent severe winter. Each event caused distress to citizens in the county and placed significant demands on the local authority and other agencies.

On the weekend of 16 and 17 August 2008, flooding occurred across the county. This was unseasonal and was very intense in some areas. The high residential density areas at risk were Whitehall in Tullamore and Botley Lane in Portarlington. Sanitary systems in Edenderry and Clonbullogue were also affected. Roads, bridges and culverts were damaged, especially in the vicinity of the Slieve Bloom mountains. The county council response was supplemented with assistance from Civil Defence volunteers. The cost of the emergency response and remedial works was €650,000. This was financed from our funds. Aerial photography taken at the time was persuasive in addressing subsequent planning issues. Copies of photographs taken over Tullamore and Banagher are included with the material presented to the committee.

The areas most affected by flooding during the weekend of 28 November last were along the Shannon and at Portovolla Estate in Banagher, where flood waters rose to just below floor levels. The electricity supply was turned off as a safety precaution. As a result, seven families were accommodated in local bed and breakfast establishments for the weekend. Other residents made their own arrangements. In Shannon Harbour, two private properties were flooded, six other private houses were at risk and access was restricted. Some flood damage was caused to local roads and to a tourism renewal project in the village. In Shannonbridge, considerable pumping was undertaken by council staff to protect properties. Flooding occurred in other areas, such as Botley Lane, Portarlington, but the flooding in these areas was less severe than that which occurred in August 2009. Flood risk in Tullamore was mitigated in part because of channel clearing work undertaken by the OPW in 2009. A payment of €50,000 to cover the response cost was received promptly last December from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. A further sum of €365,000 has been applied for relating to remedial and preventative work.

With regard to the big freeze of the past winter, the effect of this was most acute from 5 to 14 January. However, salting of roads occurred on an almost daily basis from 12 November to 3 March. Our policy is to apply, as weather conditions dictate, 6 mm rock salt to all our national roads, approximately 140 km in total. It is also our policy to apply 6 mm of salt to 40% of our regional roads, totalling 150 km. A map of our salting routes, as outlined on our website, is enclosed. In winter 2010 salt was applied on more than 70 occasions at a cost of €560,000. This compares with 46 salting call-outs in the previous winter, 23 in 2007-08 and only six in 2006-07, which indicates an increased call on our resources in the past couple of winters.

Co-ordination of services to vulnerable people was ensured by a liaison arrangement between the chief ambulance officer of the HSE and a Garda Síochána inspector. In Offaly County Council an arrangement was made between the rostered winter maintenance engineer and the rostered officer for the fire emergency and Civil Defence. Arrangements were in place to scale up this co-ordination effort if and when required. Timely and regular press releases were broadcast on local and national media.

On 8 January we decided, in consultation with Laois County Council, to close, for safety reasons, the regional road across the Slieve Bloom mountains between Mountrath and Kinnitty. The power supply to important communication masts on the mountain was disrupted for a time.

The thaw on 13 and 14 January following the exceptionally low temperatures revealed substantial frost damage to roads. Regional roads between Portarlington and Edenderry and between Portarlington and Mountmellick were closed due to substantial road damage. Remedial works to roads in the county will cost in the region of €3 million. Emergency repair works to water supplies cost in the region of €240,000 while the production of additional, unaccounted-for water is estimated to be €250,000.

I will set out a few of the lessons locally and make a few suggestions for the committee. The major emergency plan exercises and meetings involving ourselves, the Garda Síochána and the HSE at regional level proved useful in building good working relationships among the individuals and organisations involved and continued funding for such exercises is recommended.

While long-term storage of salt is not possible, consideration should be given to greater use of salt barns as this would improve the life and workability of the salt. The Department of Transport has this year granted local discretion for funds normally allocated for specific works. This is very much welcomed. Recent events emphasised the importance of regular funding for preventative maintenance works. Such funds would also ensure the availability of a local, versatile workforce to deal with such emergencies and it should be noted that our outdoor staff were a key resource in responding to the emergencies.

It would be useful to agree a national protocol to activate a co-ordinating mechanism for events which might be considered to be less acute than a major emergency. We need to consider the question of expectations, certainly those relating to the funding available for emergencies. At local authority level we adopt the practical approach of getting out there and doing what has to be done to deal with needs as they arise in an emergency. Questions of cost are normally considered later. However, given our experience over the past two years we are of the view that certainty and reassurance for recoupment of costs associated with exceptional emergencies would certainly help as the local authority scopes the level of assistance possible for each incident. For example, our response costs were recouped for flooding in 2009 but not in 2008.

I thank Mr. Gallagher, the Offaly county manager for his presentation.

I thank the delegates for their presentations. My concern is for Leitrim as I am a public representative for that area. In fairness to local authorities, and I include Sligo in this, they responded to the challenge and kept the roads open. The national primary and secondary roads and regional roads were passable. County roads, where possible, were gritted and staff of Leitrim County Council, including the road workers and everyone associated with the task, deserve the ultimate praise.

We debated this issue with other organisations last week, including the ESB, and it is a pity the delegates were not present. Leitrim was badly affected and the photographs from Mr. McGuinness's presentation show the amount of flooding which took place. It is thanks to the work of a great number of stakeholders that more damage was not caused. Carrick-on-Shannon was almost devastated and I was in family houses in Leitrim village in which the water came up to a height of 18 in. It was dark and there was no electricity as people tried to get on with their lives. It was a frightening scene.

The families with whom I spoke in Leitrim village could not understand how one particular thing happened. One individual had put sandbags outside his house and these contained the water, as did sandbags placed outside other houses and business premises. This individual in question got up at 5 a.m. and everything was fine but at 6 a.m. he heard water splashing outside. In one hour the water level had risen enough to breach the sandbags and get into his house to a level of 18 in. This was not rain as it was not raining at that time so something happened to cause the devastation. We need to get the answers and I asked the ESB some questions when its representatives were before the committee two weeks ago. I would be grateful if the local authority would follow up on the matter because something happened to create so much water in one hour that properties were flooded. Whether it was because a dam was opened or because of some other reason we need to know.

What happened happened and there is nothing we can do about that now but we can learn from it and try to ensure it does not happen again. There was massive destruction as 18 in. of water flooded into houses, some of them brand new and with massive mortgages. Everybody should try to find out why it happened.

I will take questions from members and then return to the delegates for their comments.

I thank each of the delegates for their presentations. I extend my good wishes to the county manager in Leitrim and wish her a speedy recovery.

I will put a question to all the county managers present. Can they give an indication of the number of people who will have to be permanently relocated as a result of the flooding? There must be some people around Shannon Harbour who will find it impossible to return to their homes. The same will apply to outlying areas of Carrick-on-Shannon. The numbers may be relatively small but I would be grateful for an indication of what they might be.

Did local authorities receive any communication from the ESB to point out that water levels on Lough Allen were 2m higher than the winter operating level? Did they receive any communication to the effect that Lough Ree was 1 m higher? Were the authorities aware of that in advance of the severe flooding and the severe weather warning that subsequently came? By October 2009 the thresholds had been reached on both lakes and my understanding is that local authorities were not aware of it. If they had been aware of it and of the severe weather warnings something may have been done to provide sandbags or to take other action.

I have a question for Mr. Dollard in regard to his own county. At this committee last week, Mr. Nicholas Tarrant from the ESB made an interesting contribution in regard to Lough Derg. He made the point that there are restrictive operating levels on Lough Derg because of damage done in 1979. Fort Henry embankment near Parteen weir was damaged in 1979 on foot of which the ESB had to significantly increase the water level on which it could operate in Lough Derg. Have there been any discussions regarding that with the local authority or has any consideration been given to addressing the inadequacies of that embankment to allow us have additional attenuation in Lough Derg? It appears to be an immediate measure that could take place.

I compliment the local authorities that I have experience of in counties Leitrim, Roscommon and Longford which used the local media in every way possible, whether the broadcast media or their on-line presence to try to get as much information as possible out to the community.

A suggestion that has been made is that, first, an early warning system would be put in place and, second, that there would be a text message system to provide advance warning of possible flooding to local householders to allow them prepare in advance. Was such a mechanism in place in any of the local authorities whose representatives are before the committee today? How useful would it be to introduce such a measure?

Deputy Scanlon mentioned water levels. I put it not just to the representatives of Leitrim County Council but to the representatives of the other two local authorities as well because the experience of many local authorities in regard to this particular flooding was the speed at which the levels became so high so quickly and they were trying to catch up and then stay ahead of it. I believe part of that was due to the levels within the Shannon basin prior to the heavy flooding but the witnesses might comment on that. Having spoken to people who have lived in the Shannon basin and on the banks of the Shannon all their lives, the one aspect they continually highlight is the speed at which water levels rose on this occasion compared with previous occasions, even in the severe flood of 1954.

I welcome the delegations and compliment them on their presentations. Although I do not represent any of those areas I wish to ask a few questions. I wish to be associated with Deputy Naughten and perhaps Mr. McGuinness would convey my best wishes to his county manager, a great Meath woman, who has served in different positions in Meath County Council during most of my 29 years as a member of that council. She was Meath's loss and Leitrim's gain. I wish her well and was sorry to hear she had a mishap.

The photographs of Clare and Leitrim and the television pictures were the only evidence I had of the flooding. My area did not suffer in the same way as those areas. I compliment the witnesses on the marvellous job they have done in very difficult circumstances. Apart from the flooding, there was snow and frost, making it the most severe weather of the past 50 years. I compliment the local councils and emergency services in my own area and other areas because I happen to be involved with two county councils. Mr. Pat Gallagher was part of Westmeath County Council for some time. I thank him for his assistance in the Coole area of County Westmeath.

I have the reports from Clare in regard to the gritting of roads and making salt available. I note the provision of road grit for community use at approximately 40 locations in County Clare. I compliment all those involved. I note that in Leitrim, grit was deposited at hills and junctions and was available for collection at council depots. That was the trend when I entered the council in 1974. I recall as we approached the winter that grit was always made available for hills. At that time the workers went around on their bicycles from hill to hill. Unfortunately that practice appears to have stopped, at least in my county. I am pleased to note however that some counties are providing grit. Perhaps, next winter we should sit down with the Minister or his officials and ensure that system is restored for every county because many people living in rural areas were badly affected by the severe weather conditions and were unable to get out of their homes or go to the local shop. I would hope that type of system will be in operation throughout the country.

I wish to put this question to the witnesses. In good times was land zoned on flood plains that should not have been zoned? I am not saying whether it was right or wrong but I would like to hear their comments. Perhaps other amendments should be made to county development plans across the country where land was zoned on flood plains.

I welcome the delegations from the three local authorities in respect of a situation that was very difficult for all concerned. That the three county councils, especially Leitrim County Council, were overlooked in the invitation to attend two weeks ago gave rise to much anger, especially among the people of Leitrim who felt let down. I do not think that the representatives from certain county councils should appear before the committee. Most counties were affected, especially Leitrim and in particular Carrick-on-Shannon on both sides of the border. It was an oversight that should not have happened.

I wish the Leitrim county manager well. The flooding was very difficult for all concerned and, as Deputy Scanlon said, it was difficult to visit businesses and households that were flooded. I pay tribute to local authorities and especially to Leitrim County Council, its workers, management and voluntary sector, because everyone worked together and it managed the emergency very well.

One area where we fell down was in communications. This was highlighted by Mr. Pat McGuinness. On local radio stations certain people made statements they believed were true, when in fact they were not true, and this put the fear of God into many people. As a politician and as members of executives, it was very difficult to counteract those statements once they went out on the national media. I spent my time travelling from Rooskey Weir to Tarmonbarry Weir to Jamestown Weir to Lough Gara where I live. We did not lead in the communications area but when we did catch up it made a significant difference.

Deputy Brady mentioned planning issues and rezoning flood plains. People are talking about building on flood plains. Two local authorities, Roscommon local authority at Cortubber, and Leitrim local authority are involved in one area. A shopping centre with many shops is now deserted because it was built on a flood plain. The Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, came to the area and looked at the Tesco site on the Leitrim side of Carrick-on-Shannon which was built on stilts and where flooding was not an issue. We can learn a lot from how we address planning.

I am concerned about budgetary issues to which Mr. Gallagher referred. Many local authorities are unsure whether they will get money from central government if they spend a serious amount of money. That concern is at the back of everyone's mind. The lines of communication from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government should be much clearer. It should tell local authorities to deal with the matter immediately and that it will sort things out subsequently.

Much credit is due to the Red Cross. I know many householders who were compensated for damage. In Leitrim a voluntary effort was evident. Although it was a national emergency we had to wait approximately three weeks for Ministers to come to see the damage. They all went to their own constituencies. In fairness to the Minister of State, Deputy Mansergh, he came and showed an interest. People want someone to show an interest as they felt let down when they saw what was happening in Cork and Clare. The damage was outrageous. Governments will have to consider allocating Ministers to come to areas to show they care. They might not be able to do much more but it shows that they care and that people are not forgotten about.

I know many businesses that will never re-open. Reference was made to 17 jobs. There does not seem to be provision for businesses other than insurance. Money was promised all around the country. We were told that businesses would be taken care of and that people would get back to work but that has not been forthcoming. The system has not been able to facilitate many sole traders and self-employed people. We need to consider that issue because some people who are unemployed could have been assisted to remain in work.

The ESB came before the committee two weeks ago. I am concerned that the ESB's statutory role on the Shannon relates to the generation of electricity at Ardnacrusha. In that context the ESB is primarily concerned with water levels in Lough Derg, in so far as it impacts on the operation of Ardnacrusha. The ESB no longer has a strategic interest in storing water in Lough Ree or Lough Allen for electricity generation. I am convinced that in our area of the upper Shannon the ESB abrogated its responsibility for controlling the water in Lough Allen. I am certain that if the weirs at Ballintra and Lough Allen could have been raised that would have prevented much of the damage. I put that to the ESB two weeks ago but it still has not come back to me with any levels. I do not think it had any interest in the water levels.

I agree with Mr. McGuinness that Lough Allen could be a reservoir. The fact should be borne in mind that 60% of the River Boyle goes towards Carrick-on-Shannon. Where I live on the River Boyle up near Lough Gara in County Sligo could also act as a reservoir. That is a simple idea which needs to be considered. Once again, the problem is that no agency was in control. I asked Waterways Ireland about the high level at which the waters were kept because it wanted more tourist boats to go into Lough Allen, which is a wonderful tourist facility. I have the figures which I can list. That may not have been an issue because Waterways Ireland came up with the relevant information. There were no boats in January or February; there were three boats in March; 53 boats in April; 75 in May; 118 in June; 153 in July; 140 in August; 97 in September; 39 in October; and three in November. Perhaps if we had kept the water down a little we could have lost 39 boats. People were concerned that the water would be kept at a high level so that boats would go into Lough Allen. We have to try to manage with pleasure boats and to maintain the levels. That is relevant information which I can make available.

Salt is an issue in terms of roads. Perhaps we could consider the procurement, storage and distribution of salt by a national agency. I hope we never get a repeat of such bad weather again. I congratulate Leitrim County Council on bringing in the Army, which made a difference as it gritted footpaths. That was an innovation on behalf of the local authority.

I concur with the point about public liability. We must consider legislation to ensure property owners are responsible for the area outside their properties. Deputy Brady highlighted that the voluntary effort around the country was fantastic. In the United Kingdom farmers sometimes get paid for work they do on roads in the winter using machinery they usually use in the summer. We could consider such an option. We must have one overall authority for the Shannon with clout that will liaise with all local authorities. I hope we will never be in the same situation again.

The director of services from Leitrim indicated that the major emergency plans must include contact numbers for senior personnel in the various agencies. Does he mean at Government level or local level? The reason I ask is that one of the issues the committee has been dealing with is how the response to a major emergency would work. It should be clear from the outset who is in charge at Government level. I would welcome an opinion on that.

The Offaly county manager indicated that aerial photography taken at the time was persuasive in addressing subsequent planning issues. What exactly did he mean? Was he talking about rezonings?

As far as I am aware the various local authorities present have been affected by cutbacks in staff. I presume temporary staff have been let go. The recruitment embargo is in place. How did that affect their capacity to deal with the flooding problems as they arose?

I thank the Chairman for his indulgence in allowing me to pose questions and make general statements as I am not a member of the committee.

I welcome the presentations, in particular that of Mr. Gerard Dollard who is representing both Ennis Town Council and Clare County Council. I know at first hand the tremendous leadership provided by Mr. Dollard and the county manager in terms of dealing with what was a crisis of historic proportions from the point of view of County Clare. I commend the speed at which they put together the co-ordination centre, which involved the key personnel in the emergency services — the Civil Defence, the Army, the fire service and the Garda. In particular, I commend the heads of each of those services. The co-ordination centre was a model in terms of what planning should be about for those kinds of unexpected and unscheduled events. Some of us have been sceptical about groups coming together for the purpose of emergency planning and whether it is just a scientific exercise with little prospect for future use. The recent events proved that kind of advance planning is the way forward. Much of it was done in Clare and it paid off in spades in terms of the council's capacity not to panic at the sight of water in areas in which it had never been seen before and to deal with it in a very co-ordinated way. The fears of the public were managed appropriately and this was helpful. The use of local radio and return calls from the call centre worked in assuaging people's fears and concerns in so far as this was possible. It was a difficult job in Clare for all concerned because the flooding was spread over quite a number of areas. North Clare, east Clare, south-east Clare, Ennis and its environs were affected. The authorities did a marvellous amount of work.

I was taken by the authorities' efforts to draw in other stakeholders who, heretofore, would have taken a silo approach to dealing with flooding and would not have wanted to co-operate in a horizontal way. The council, Garda and fire service forced bodies such as the ESB to co-operate more fully and appropriately. In the case of the ESB, it was a matter of co-operating with regard to the rate of spill from Parteen weir and modelling, as best it could, the impact it would have upriver. A great debt of gratitude is owed to the local authority for its leadership and work.

We now have a tremendous amount of information from which solutions come. People say advances in medicine come about through wars, which result in greater experience and more experiments. Does Clare County Council believe it has received the necessary support from the stakeholders that were present at previous meetings of this committee, including the OPW, ESB and Waterways Ireland? I refer also to bodies that I consider more peripheral but which can often comprise a small gate that everybody has difficulty getting through. These include the National Parks and Wildlife Service and other more peripheral agencies that put everybody through the hoops in terms of protecting the environment. Clearly, the objectives of these bodies are very important at one level, but when it comes to people's homes and businesses being flooded, and the potential for lives to be lost, they become more peripheral in many people's minds. Is the council getting support from the other bodies working towards resolving the problem?

Members referred to the necessity to examine the Shannon basin and the management of water levels. There is a balance to be struck between maintaining a water level that allows for the use of Lough Derg and other lakes for leisure purposes and the passage of boats and recognising that Lough Derg can be a very significant reservoir and used as a sink to store water, if properly managed. It is necessary to have a complete, independent survey carried out on the management of that waterway using the data that have been gathered from the most recent flood event. I have asked for this in the past.

It is not good enough to say the water levels that obtained over the past 50 years are the ones that are set down statutorily and that we are adhering to them. There ought to be greater analysis to determine whether the lake can be drained to a point that allows it to store water for longer, thus giving the authorities the capacity to manage flooding events with the benefit of better co-ordinated weather reporting. By achieving this, the people, particularly those in south-east Clare, would not be put in the position they are in.

Circumstances are much more difficult in certain areas, Ennis in particular. The work the OPW has done there is of very significant quality and I hope it will continue. I acknowledge the council has worked and continues to work under the various schemes of the OPW to try to address the flash points. Ennis presented a difficulty because it was not just the water that emerged from the River Fergus that caused the problem; there was also water from underground sources and turloughs and this complicated the situation.

I congratulate the delegates from all the councils on their efforts to reduce the impact of the floods when they were at their highest point.

I will start with Leitrim County Council. Have members any issues to raise that are specific to Leitrim County Council? They may make some general comments also.

Mr. John McGuinness

The first question that arose concerned the incident in Leitrim village, where the water level rose at 5 a.m. or 6 a.m. We were aware of that and there is no doubt but that something happened. We made contact immediately with the ESB, Waterways Ireland and every other body but none has been able to give us a satisfactory explanation as to what occurred. We saw a printout of the water level at Lough Allen and it did not indicate that anything untoward had happened there. The matter certainly requires a much more detailed investigation because there is no question but that something happened, whatever it was. We will be meeting officials from the OPW next week and asking them for explanations. We will ask whether a phenomenon in the sub-catchment might explain the incident. One regional road in the county flooded that never flooded before. The water went off it rather quickly, which surprised us in light of what was happening in the network elsewhere.

There is an absolute need for a full and detailed study of what is happening in the area. We believed Waterways Ireland or somebody had opened gates on the canal but that was denied. Further investigation is required.

Deputy Naughten asked how many people would be relocated. The flooding in Leitrim affected a relatively small number of properties, many of which had not been flooded before. There are some houses that have not yet been reoccupied but they might well have been rented in any event. The difficulty the owners will face will be obtaining insurance. A very small number of people, if any, will be relocated. They probably will not be considering that the event never happened before.

The ESB has not been in communication with us with regard to water levels.

The text message idea to which Deputy Naughten referred seems good. All I would say in response is that the water levels in Leitrim rose gradually rather than by way of flash floods, as is the trend.

Deputy Brady referred to the use of grit. The issue that arises in this regard is that, at the beginning of the storm, we were rather reluctant to allow the gritting of hills and such places because there are health and safety issues and public liability questions to be considered in respect of which nobody knows the answer. As the crisis developed, community gritting was the lesser of two evils and at least presented a way for communities to help themselves surmount the problem. As members stated, the legislation needs to be changed in some way to ensure people who need to spread grit on roads will not be liable under public liability law.

I accept the point made on communications. The difficulty really relates to the fact that there was nobody who could speak with authority on the water levels. The only body that could do that was the ESB. It was as a result of a lot of pressure from us that it spoke on local radio to try to calm fears that had arisen, in many cases without reason.

With regard to the storage of water in Lough Allen, during the flooding event we were in contact with the ESB on numerous occasions daily. It did increase the level of storage in Lough Allen for us, albeit to a marginal extent, by approximately 90 mm.

As part of our investigation into what was going on, we met ESB officials on site. The problem they identified to us was the embankment around Lough Allen and the fact that under the standards they operate, they could not raise the levels above a certain threshold and guarantee the integrity of the embankment. Sluice gates were not the issue; it was the embankment around the lake. This needs to be looked at. There is no way Leitrim County Council would have known that.

By how much did they increase the level?

Mr. John McGuinness

Approximately 90 mm or between three and four inches. The question of whether Lough Allen could have been used more effectively or whether the embankment might need to be strengthened or extended to control levels is something that needs to be looked into.

Getting back to the question of building on the flood plain, Leitrim County Council has been conscious of this and the Carrick-on-Shannon town plan, in particular, since 2004 has been strong on the possibility of building on the flood plain. Only in exceptional circumstances were people allowed build within the flood plain and only after they proved the effect of the development would be minimal on upstream or downstream levels. As the Deputy pointed out, some of the innovative methods used such as building on stilts worked effectively and had a minimal effect on the flood plain whereas in Roscommon on the Cortorber side, there was a catastrophe.

Deputy Tuffy mentioned the question of contact numbers. The problem was not at government level; it was the OPW, the ESB and so on. Who were the hydrologists in the OPW——

Do the agencies themselves determine those numbers?

Mr. John McGuinness

Yes, but we need to know precisely the person and a 24-hour contact number.

I thought each county had an emergency plan.

Mr. John McGuinness

It has.

Would that number not have been in the local authority's emergency plan?

Mr. John McGuinness

There are contact numbers but not necessarily those for the specific people familiar with the network such as the people in the ESB who control the water levels at Ardnacrusha and so on or the OPW hydrologist in Ballina rather than the head office in Dublin. We lost time we should not have.

Is that something that can be dealt with locally?

Mr. John McGuinness

It is a local issue.

Deputy Tuffy also raised the staff cutbacks. Our staff numbers have been reduced considerably. We have had no casual employees for the past two years and that has had an affect. The Army was brought into Leitrim because we would not have been able to deal with the private housing estates and, in particular, the footpaths. The Army was available to us free of charge and that was an attraction in itself.

A question was asked about agencies giving us support. We tried to set up meetings with them at a local level and they are about to happen now. They have supported the local staff on the ground. Getting them all into a room for a discussion is happening nationally and I presume when that feeds back down the line to us, we will get support from them.

Mr. Gerard Dollard

I would like to record the apologies of Mr. Tom Coughlan, the Clare county manager. He had a commitment he was unable to change.

Deputy Scanlon made a general point about finding out what happened. In Clare, we have quite a level of aerial photography from the flooding event. The county was overflown on several different occasions.

We have been impressed by the aerial photography furnished at this meeting and at our previous meeting. Did each local authority hire somebody or was it done centrally or regionally?

Mr. Gerard Dollard

Through good relationships with the local Garda. The Garda helicopter was provided on two occasions and we organised one overflight through the Air Corps.

Officials did not go to a private operator.

Mr. Pat Gallagher

We used a commercial photographer.

That was in Offaly. I am curious because good photographs are available from all over the country.

My understanding was that the OPW also took photographs. We were led to believe that they would be made available to the local authorities.

Mr. Pat Gallagher

They did. I mentioned ours related to the flooding in August 2008 but, for a number of reasons, we arranged for aerial photography to be taken and we included a recording of the flood events as part of that. There is good sharing of resources with the OPW and we have shared our photography with its officials.

Mr. Gerard Dollard

We intend to use all that information. An EU water directive is in place and, therefore, we will all have to have flood management plans in place by 2015. The database and information is strong.

On the issue Deputy Naughten raised about people who were relocated, all householders who were relocated are back in their properties. Some works remain to be done on some properties and some people are looking at their options in the long term but nobody is permanently out of his or her dwelling at this point.

With regard to the ESB and Lough Derg and the damage to Fort Henry in 1979, this was never raised as an issue. We had significant engagement with the ESB throughout the crisis. There was robust debate. The agencies challenged ESB officials about what they were doing but the ESB engaged fully and wholeheartedly in managing the crisis.

I gather the management of waters on the Shannon is complex. ESB officials said they could not deal with the water until it came into Lough Derg and it was only after that they could take it over and release it.

Is Mr. Dollard surprised there is so little flexibility in regard to Lough Derg? It is a large lake but, because of the damage in 1979, ESB officials in their evidence to the committee said they do not have the capacity in the lake to deal with this and provide the type of attenuation needed. Is Mr. Dollard surprised they disclosed this fact?

Mr. Gerard Dollard

The accumulation of water in October and November would have contributed as well. River and lake levels were high throughout. The Deputy raised the issue of the speed with which water levels rose generally. Our understanding is that there was so much water in the system that the rainfall on the Wednesday and the Thursday, in particular, was the tipping point and that caused the floods at that stage.

With regard to the issue of an early warning system, there is scope for an amber warning system in situations like that and it could be looked at as part of the overall major emergency management framework.

Deputies Brady and Feighan referred to land zoned on flood plains, which should not have been zoned. We conducted a flood study for Ennis in 2002. Since the mid-1990s all planning applications with flooding implications have been fully vetted and applicants required to demonstrate, using up to date scientific analysis, that the development proposals would not have any effect from a flooding point of view. We are of the strong view that any developments that happened over the past 20 years would not have reduced the impact of the floods on Ennis.

Deputy Feighan raised the issue of communications. We felt in Clare that communications worked exceptionally well. One difficulty was text messages flying around about bridges being washed way or water mains connected to major towns being ruptured, which were untrue. A great deal of time was spent dealing with misinformation. The public must act responsibility in situations like that.

The Deputy also mentioned budgetary issues. Our response costs of €1.1 million were fully funded and I compliment the Department on the efficiency with which that money was transferred to us. Our cost to address the snow, frost and ice was approximately €500,000 between the gritting operations and the immediate repairs of potholes. That has not been funded and the damage to our road system is a bigger issue. In our submission to the Department, we estimated the cost of the damage to our road system at approximately €11 million. This is a major concern.

Deputy Tuffy asked about contact numbers and the availability of personnel. In general, apart from the fire service, the local authority system is not structured for a 24/7 response. Many of the staff gave fully of their time, but it was in many ways the blessing of God that they were available. We do not have a roster system to make personnel available other than for the fire service. This is something that must be considered in the context of future management of emergencies. On the issue of staff cutbacks, these did not have an effect at the time. As Mr. Gallagher said, local authorities did what they needed to do. They sustained the response 24/7 over a nine-day period, but if the crisis had continued much longer, it would have caused problems. The effect of the cutbacks may have been more evident in day to day operations where projects and initiatives may not have progressed as quickly as they should.

I thank Deputy Dooley for his comments. I agree that the success in Clare was down to the co-operation and goodwill among all the agencies. I am satisfied that will continue. Since the flooding crisis, the entire major emergency management committee has met the ESB on site in Ardnacrusha and we have visited Parteen weir. We intend to build on this relationship. At national level, there is scope to consider involving the ESB more in the national planning framework and I suggest the airport authorities should also be involved. We have found that in Clare these tend to be outside the national loop. They should be brought into the loop. The Deputy also mentioned schemes with the OPW. We are progressing a number of schemes with the OPW. One of our priority schemes is the one to deal with the Gort Road industrial estate to safeguard employment in the town. We are also prioritising a scheme at St. Flannan's College which suffered serious flooding during the crisis.

Mr. Pat Gallagher

I will make two brief points and then ask Mr. Heslin to respond. The fact that we have a major emergency planning framework which works from local to regional and national level is important. That framework has been revised in recent years and we have an approved post — a specific officer — in each local authority to deal with it. There is also a specific officer at regional level to deal with it. I acknowledge the support of the Department for that, but it is important the work continues to receive support. Although we did not declare a major emergency plan, the interactions we have had under the plan framework worked in our favour. The fact that we conduct exercises and local and regional working and steering groups was very important in helping us control the situation from an early stage. It was important too that the national committee got into gear when it did. Perhaps that group could activate itself even earlier in similar contingencies. Once the national committee was activated, we had daily contact with that group to ascertain what was happening in our area.

With regard to the media, we all did what we could with the local media. However, the influence of the national media in these situations is important. We cannot influence the national media at local level. We found that in the case of the flooding and the frost, once the national committee became active and communicated with the national media, the messages being picked up by people locally were more accurate and more helpful to local authorities, particularly with regard to the conservation of water.

Mr. Frank Heslin

In the main, we tend to use salt for gritting, but I am aware gritting practices vary from county to county. Formerly, we used chipping, then moved to chipping and salt, but now we mainly use salt. The main reason for this is that when the thaw comes, chipping can block drains and cause flooding. There have also been some serious accidents related to chipping. Some years ago in Offaly, following a thaw, a cyclist was involved in a serious accident as a result of slipping on the chippings. That is one of the reasons the local authorities in Offaly are reluctant to use chippings. During the recent crisis our crews worked on areas that were particularly dangerous, such as footpaths and hills. In general however, we conserved our stocks to hold open the strategic road routes. Our staff were kept at full capacity doing that. The IFA and other groups offered assistance, but we did not avail of it at the time because of insurance and health and safety issues. If the implications for insurance and health and safety issues could be relaxed somewhat during emergencies, that would provide some comfort with regard to using external groups to help out at times of crisis. Our outdoor staff were fully stretched to cope with the crisis, but our numbers have dwindled over the years and if they fall much lower than they are currently, our capacity to respond to emergencies will be difficult to maintain. We continually respond to incidents, such as water incidents and oil spills, and it is important to maintain the outdoor staff we have for responding to these types of emergencies.

On the question of aerial photographs, in 2008 we took photographs for our own benefit. However, subsequently, some nine months later, these photographs were persuasive when developing the case with regard to a Part 8 road scheme we were recommending. The photographs helped persuade the different parties of where serious flooding takes place. Memories can be short and the proof of aerial photographs can be far more persuasive than maps. In the particular case the photographs we could show nine months later were helpful. Aerial photography is also helpful when making development plans.

On the question of rehousing or permanent relocation of residents, Offaly County Council does not expect to have to do anything in that regard. We did not have any communication from the ESB on the flooding in Offaly. With regard to support from other agencies, we worked closely with them on several levels. In general, the agencies in Offaly worked well together in delivering on any requests we made to them.

I have a brief question for Offaly County Council with regard to how quickly the flood waters rose. I made the point earlier that Lough Ree was a metre higher than normal winter operating levels and Mr. Dollard said that because there was so much water within the system, this led to water levels rising far quicker. As a rule of thumb, after significant heavy rain, the River Shannon south of the weir in Athlone only starts to rise three days after the rain. It takes approximately three days for the extra water to come down through the system. Would the flooding we had already and the water within the Shannon basin system following this severe flooding have precipitated the dramatic increase in the water levels at the particular time? Would the fact that Offaly County Council was aware of the capacity problems within the two upper lakes have facilitated the county council in putting a better plan in place? It would be more difficult to do this in Leitrim because the delay between the heavy rain and the resulting flooding is different. Were there implications in that regard in Offaly?

Mr. Pat Gallagher

To be honest, it would not have made a huge difference to us. We are aware the Shannon floods every year. The problem this time was the speed and the greater extent of the flooding. We were aware, from the MET data, that the level of rainfall to the west of the Shannon over the first two months of November, in an arc stretching from south Mayo to the Shannon and down to Limerick and Clare, was very high. Additional information from the ESB would not have been of any great assistance to us. We were just lucky that the rainfall in the catchment east of the River Shannon was not as great. Our problems would have been compounded had that been the case.

We will conclude this section of the meeting. I thank the representatives from Leitrim, Clare and Offaly county councils. We found their input very useful and informative and it will help us in drafting our report.

Sitting suspended at 5.40 p.m. and resumed at 5.41 p.m.
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