JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, TRANSPORT, CULTURE AND THE GAELTACHT díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 6 Jun 2012

European Environment Council: Discussion with Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government

Chairman

We will now have a briefing on the Environment Council meeting to be held on 11 June 2012 in Luxembourg which will be attended by the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Phil Hogan. On behalf of the committee I welcome the Minister along with his officials. I look forward to the continued constructive dialogue on EU matters over the coming months with the Minister, Deputy Hogan. Consideration of developments at EU Council meetings is an important aspect of the work of the committees and is a key factor in strengthening Oireachtas oversight of EU matters. Members have been provided with an opening statement by the Department covering all the agenda items and giving a general overview.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

I remind members to turn off their mobile phones and call on the Minister to make his opening statement.

Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Phil Hogan)

I thank the Chairman and the members of the committee for their invitation to meet with them today to discuss the agenda for the next meeting of the EU Environment Council, which takes place next Monday in Luxembourg. This will be the final Environment Council of what has been a very active Danish Presidency. With each passing Council we move ever closer to our own EU Presidency in the first half of next year, just under seven months from now.

When I met with the committee here last December I mentioned the opportunity that the Presidency of the Union presents to Ireland to restore our reputation in the EU and beyond. Following the positive result of the recent referendum on the fiscal treaty, we are now well placed to make a real and positive impact in the EU and international arenas during our Presidency.

I will not dwell too long on Presidency-related issues as today's debate is focused on the business of next Monday's meeting. Suffice to say that we are well advanced with our planning for the Presidency within the Department. Work has been in train for the past two years, with a very significant level of engagement with the EU institutions at both the political and official levels. This work is now clearly intensifying and will continue to do so as we head into the final Presidency warm up period during which our Cypriot colleagues will hold the Presidency baton for the second half of 2012.

As well as a heavy internal EU agenda, the Presidency will also require Ireland to play a lead co-ordinating role for the EU in the international sphere. That will be a particular priority for my Department as many of the international environmental issues are dealt with at United Nations level. This will be evident during our Presidency when a number of international negotiations are set to take place. That will include the follow up to the Rio +20 Conference in Rio de Janeiro which takes place later this month and which I will attend.

The programme for the Irish Presidency will be refined in the second half of this year and I look forward to coming back to the joint committee to brief its members on our plans for the Presidency prior to its commencement.

Turning to the agenda for Monday's Council, the sole substantive legislative item is a first reading of the proposal from the European Commission for a decision on accounting rules and action plans on greenhouse gas emissions and removals that result from activities related to land use, land use change and forestry, or LULUCF for short. This proposal is particularly important for Ireland in view of the fact that it relates to the regulation of greenhouse gas emissions and removals from forestry and from agricultural land, both croplands and grazing lands. Given the size of our agriculture sector relative to our economy, and the fact that Ireland already faces a demanding 2020 greenhouse gas mitigation target under existing EU legislation, the potential implications of the proposal require careful consideration.

This first reading takes the form of an orientation debate around questions which the Presidency has tabled to evaluate the level of political support for two of the key elements of the proposal. The first question relates to the proposed phased approach to the regulation of the greenhouse gas emissions and removals concerned. The second question concerns the proposed immediate introduction of a requirement to develop LULUCF action plans at member state level.

In view of the significance of the proposal for the agriculture and forestry sectors in Ireland, I will be finalising my input to the debate in consultation with my colleague, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Coveney.

In the discussions on the proposal so far, Ireland has raised serious concerns on a number of the key elements. For example, the proposed introduction of mandatory reporting requirements for cropland and grazing land management seems premature on a number of grounds. Mandatory requirements do not exist at an international level under the UN Convention on Climate Change or the Kyoto Protocol, and are unlikely to be introduced for some time. It is also questionable whether adequate and robust data on emissions and removals related to cropland and grazing land management is available - not just in Ireland, but across the EU - to underpin the introduction of a mandatory reporting regime at this stage.

Ireland has also raised concerns regarding the proposed introduction of a mandatory requirement on member states to produce LULUCF action plans by mid-2013. Apart from the difficulty of producing action plans in such a short period of time, there are also concerns regarding the proposed degree of oversight envisaged for the Commission. Similar concerns regarding the proposed level of delegated authority, which the Commission is seeking, also arise in other provisions, including in relation to definitions and accounting rules. I intend to reflect these concerns in my contribution to the debate and I will finalise the position in consultation with my ministerial colleague, Deputy Coveney.

On non-legislative items, the Council will discuss two sets of conclusions: one on the EU positions for the eleventh meeting of the Conference of the Parties, or COP 11, of the Convention on Biological Diversity, CBD, which takes place in Hyderabad, India, in October 2012; and a second set of conclusions on the upcoming seventh Environment Action Programme.

My colleague, the Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Deenihan, as Minister with responsibility for nature and biodiversity matters, will also attend next Monday's Council to represent Ireland in the discussions on the preparations for the Convention on Biological Diversity, COP 11.

In terms of the conclusions which have been tabled for this agenda item, the main issues of note are around the advancement of resource mobilisation - that is, the provision of capacity to developing countries to protect their rich biodiversity, and the achievement of the CBD's targets, also known as the "Aichi" targets, by 2020. The outcomes from COP 11 will constitute a significant element of the international biodiversity issues which Ireland will seek to progress during our Presidency.

The second set of conclusions are concerned with providing political guidance to the development of the seventh environment action programme. We see this programme, which is expected to be published by the Commission this November, as one of our flagship projects for the Irish Presidency.

The Danish Presidency has been active on the next EAP and has hosted a number of seminars and workshops, as well as making it the main theme of their informal Environment Council in Denmark which I attended in April. We have been proactive on this issue, as well. In January last, I spoke on this issue at a workshop of the European Parliament's Committee on the Environment, Public Health and Food Safety. I have also met with the chairperson of the committee as well as the committee member who will act as rapporteur for the proposal. We will be aiming to prioritise work on the seventh programme following its publication by the Commission later in the year.

The seventh environment action programme will be the key driver of environmental and green economy initiatives for the decade ahead, particularly those envisaged under the Europe 2020 strategy. It has the potential to serve as a crucial bridge between the environmental, social and economic pillars of sustainable development, and to support the aim of embedding sustainability principles in every sphere of economic, environmental and social policy.

Integrating environment and economy is not just an EU priority. It has also been the object of considerable attention and study by the OECD, culminating in its Towards Green Growth strategy. The bridging role envisaged for the next EAP at EU level very much mirrors the role envisaged for a new framework for sustainable development for Ireland, which has now been approved by the Government. I am pleased to say that the new framework will be launched this afternoon by the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and myself. As well as guiding public policy along a sustainable pathway over the years ahead, the framework will also serve as Ireland's key contribution to the Rio+20 conference later in the month.

Some of the more significant draft conclusions include the following: the seventh EAP should build on the vision of other relevant strategies and roadmaps in setting out an overarching strategic framework for the environment that is designed to achieve an ambitious and compelling 2050 vision for an inclusive, green, competitive and resource-efficient European economy, the seventh EAP should also identify priorities and objectives, as well as realistic and achievable targets, indicators and actions for 2020 that set the course for the 2050 vision; better implementation is seen as an essential part of the seventh EAP, providing the opportunity for the Commission and member states to further develop and implement the objectives and initiatives set out in the March 2012 Commission communication on the implementation of environmental legislation; the Commission is invited to carry out fitness checks of existing EU legislation to ensure that it is coherent and still fit for purpose, and to present reviews and proposals where appropriate. The Commission should also support ongoing initiatives and develop new ones where relevant; improved integration of the environment, including the value of biodiversity and natural resources, into relevant policies and a shift towards a green economy through more sustainable production and consumption patterns; and the seventh EAP should also propose suitable indicators and timetables with the aim of developing realistic and achievable targets for resource efficiency, decoupling of resource use from economic activity and the associated environmental impacts.

While some small areas of disagreement exist between member states, it is expected that these difficulties will be resolved and agreed, broadly in line with the draft conclusions.

Over lunch on Monday, Ministers will have an informal discussion on climate issues. There will also be a brief progress report during the Council on the current state of play concerning the EU's low carbon economy roadmap to 2050. At the end of the day's business, the Council will consider a small number of items under the "any other business" heading. Detailed debate is not expected on any of the items listed.

That was a brief run through the main items for next Monday's Council agenda. I will be happy to deal with any questions that the Chairman or other committee members may have.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

I do not entirely agree with the Minister's comments on the passing of the referendum last week-----

Deputy Phil Hogan

The votes have been counted, Deputy.

Deputy Catherine Murphy

-----and where it results in positioning us in terms of the EU, but that is a separate matter.

What is Ireland's role on this process? Obviously it will go from one Presidency to the next, and will culminate then. When we end up with the EU Presidency next year, can the Minister indicate the likely work agenda we will be undertaking? Will some of it be concluded or will there be other related work for us to do during our Presidency? If so, will that impact on the items of the agenda for the Irish Presidency? I presume that some element of it will do so.

There are two things going on with the Climate Change Bill. I published one such Bill myself a few weeks ago, so I may be getting somewhat impatient. When is that Bill likely to come before us and will it coincide with the Irish Presidency?

I was impressed by the document produced by the Dublin Friends of the Earth, entitled "Cuts that don't hurt and how we could save €100 million". Looking at it sector by sector, we can see that some €85 million is spent annually on health. Environment is the Minister's responsibility, rather than everyone's responsibility in government. Perhaps the Minister could comment on that. Clearly, if we are going to make strides it will be the responsibility of us all.

I have read several comments by interesting commentators on the link between energy and climate change. That is a strong view that one cannot achieve growth rates in the economy in the long term or even in the medium term unless there is a security of energy supply. Given the instability in the Middle East and the targets set for changing from the use of fossil fuels to renewables, which are and need to be ambitious, is a discussion taking place in terms of that relationship on the need for the European economy to fast forward alternative energy sources in the context of the need to grow economies? It does not appear it will be possible to do that in a sustainable way in the medium term until we get that right.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Since I became Minister I have been trying to ensure that we enshrine environmental principles into economic development. That has not always been the case. My predecessors had an extreme view of issues in regard to mainstreaming in terms of the environment and the economy, for which they did not receive public acceptance. We have achieved a fair bit in that people now see the environment as not merely a threat to policy but as an integral part of policy. I will publish the sustainable development framework today, which will answer many of the queries the Deputy raised regarding the roadmap on energy, issues across various Departments and key areas on which we will meet the targets that have been set, with our agreement, in the Europe 2020 strategy on resource efficiency and, ultimately, we aim to have a low carbon competitive economy. There are two areas where we are targeting resource efficiency and the green economy in order to create employment opportunities. There is also the issue of how we can change policy in a way that will result in savings for people by enshrining environmental principles.

The Cabinet sub-committee meets on a regular basis and that is where, to answer the Deputy's question on energy, we will achieve coherence across Departments. The sustainable development framework has been agreed by Government and it provides a framework for each Department to which it must adhere in regard to the policies we will bring forward.

I would be delighted to return to the committee in the autumn session, as I indicated in my remarks, to talk about the priorities for the Presidency in more detail when we see the outcome of the Danish Presidency and what plans the Cypriot Presidency will have from 1 July onwards. We will have a better picture in October to firm up our exact agenda. We indicated that a central plank of our agenda is the 7th Environmental Action Programme. That will include issues relating to water, biodiversity and climate changes issues that were mentioned. I have set out my roadmap for the climate change agenda, notwithstanding the Deputy's impatience in this respect. I have clearly set out where we are in regard to that and I am sticking to that roadmap. The NESC secretariat will produce a report for me in the next few weeks and I will bring it to the attention of the committee at that stage.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I welcome the concept of a framework that will involve other Departments because sustainable development will encompass everything. As we move towards the Irish Presidency, I am concerned that on the issue of global warming we would address the provision of climate change legislation in this State. That is a matter for us to do. It would send out a positive signal if we had our own house in order in that regard as we take up the Irish Presidency. It is up to us, not anybody else, to do that. I concur with some of what was said. What are the Minister's plans in that regard? What progress will be made on climate change legislation when we take over the Presidency?

The Minister mentioned the need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and referred to green energy and energy security. I agree with him on that. If the Government is moving in that direction we will support it in terms of the idea of linking economic development to a low carbon economy. We have to do that but one of the missing links is that we must have energy security. We are vulnerable to fluctuations in oil prices having regard to the fact that we are over the hump of peak oil resources and where we are moving in terms of that. It has huge implications, particularly in trying to keep down costs and inflation. There has been a good deal of focus here on keeping down costs through forcing down labour costs. I would have my own view on that, particularly regarding people at the bottom end of the wage scale. We need to focus on keeping down costs through keeping down energy costs. Energy security will be extremely important in the future. In terms of the next meeting of the Council in Europe and as we move towards the Irish Presidency, what will be the focus of the Minister and the Government on energy security?

Deputy Phil Hogan

The Deputy's last point on reducing costs is something to which I subscribe. If people see there is considerable benefit to be gained by them in meeting a national objective by having more disposable income in their pockets, the choice between reducing the consumption of water or bearing high energy costs, people will buy into the principles. If they see job creation arising from the green economy roadmap, which we set out some time ago, particularly in regard to public service budget of €16 billion or €17 billion where we have a green public procurement action plan, these are the issues that ultimately bring it home to people that there is a national objective that can be achieved by small measures they can take. There will be an adaption framework in regard to climate change available by the end of July, which will set out clearly the steps that authorities or individuals can take to advance the issues in regard to reducing our greenhouse gas emissions.

As I mentioned in response to a question from Deputy Catherine Murphy, the NESC secretariat will report on an interim basis to me at the end of this month and we will have a final report in December. As I indicated in the roadmap in regard to climate change, the heads of the Bill will be brought to this committee at the end of the year.

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú

I agree with the Minister on the importance of the Presidency for Ireland and the opportunities it will give to us, as it has in the past. On the question of the environment, we have to achieve balance between, on the one hand, the protection and enhancement of the environment and, on the other hand, economic progress and we often tend to get bogged down between those two. All our experience is that the vast majority of Irish people contribute to the protection and enhancement of the environment - that goes without question. Some of the issues that may arise may relate to business or whatever and I am not pointing the finger in that regard.

With regard to the Presidency, will the Minister consider engaging with all the people of Ireland on the environmental issue? Today's presentation is a good one; it is informative and helpful but we must engage with the broader community. Would it be possible to prepare a paper or a booklet on the aspirations of the Government in this regard? If such a document was prepared, it could end up in schools, community organisations and so on. While some of those may not have a direct influence on what might be happening in the bigger scale of the environment, it is amazing how they can influence business and others. It might be a plus for the Presidency and by preparing it in advance of our term, it might also create an awareness of the opportunities the Presidency will give us.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We fund many programmes in education, business and on the heightening of environmental awareness from the environment fund. Business and the environment is quite a good initiative from which people see substantial savings in their energy and water consumption bills, which has resulted in local authorities not receiving the necessary income from the provision of water services that they expected to receive. Their income is down approximately 10% arising from measures that have been taken by many businesses on the environment side. We run education programmes, particularly under the green flag programme, in primary secondary and third level education and that is a huge success. We will take into account what the Senator said about preparing a single document across all the Departments, not only on the environment but on the key issues that will inform people on what our priorities are and how they can contribute to enhancing the environment.

Chairman

I attended two Presidency meetings in Copenhagen, both of which focused on the environment. What is apparent from how the Danes managed the environmental issue during their Presidency is that the green economy and the issues relating to it are business smart and it is becoming more a business case. If we did not have the present economic crisis in Europe we would be focusing on the energy and water crises that also exist and which are not as high on the agenda as one might think they would be.

The Presidency will offer us an opportunity to develop this type of thinking. One of the presentations at one of the meetings I attended was given by Renault, the French motor manufacturing company. The stereotypical position is that such a company would be opposed to regulation and CO2 emission levels but the reality is quite the opposite. The auto industry in Europe wants regulations which will stick in the long term and not a situation like we had here, whereby manufacturing companies designed cars around bio-fuel engines but after a change in Government policy the research and development done by companies went by the wayside. During our Presidency we should try to tie down long-term policies which allow innovative research and development industries to plan in the long term. We should not be afraid of regulation. Regulation that will remain in place long term is in Europe's interest, not only at an environmental level but also from a good business perspective.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I agree with the Chairman that people, and businesses in particular, want certainty in the long term and the seventh environment action programme will be a considerable help in this regard. Many of the areas mentioned will be included by the programme and if we can get agreement on these issues and the programme by June 2013 people will be able to plan ahead to deal with the challenges on emissions and meeting our 2020 targets. There is a blueprint for water that is part and parcel of EU Commission proposals that will be advanced between now and the end of the year. If this deadline is not met, we may roll out the measures during our Presidency.

At the most recent Environment Council meeting I was struck by the fact that of the 28 member states present 21 of them had problems with water quality and water volumes. Irrigation proposals have been put forward in many member states including the UK. It brings home to people that the measures we are trying to implement here will be quite important and will be a very valuable resource in terms of foreign direct investment and indigenous employment opportunities, particularly in the food industry, if we are to continue to make progress in economic recovery vis-à-vis the other member states. If investment will be made in the European Union the fact we will be able to state we have vital infrastructure such as good quality and good quantities of water will be a big plus for us.

With regard to our experience of businesses changing tack on energy and water consumption to make savings in the present difficult climate, the EPA has a cleaner greener production plan. A total of 24 companies were involved and they invested €4.5 million in waste, water and energy usage initiatives and recovered savings of €3 million in one year. It shows there is a payback if we enshrine environmental principles as part of our business case and job creation strategies.

Senator Cáit Keane

The Minister's portfolio is the most important for the country and not only because we happen to be sitting on the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Environment, Transport, Culture and the Gaeltacht. It is important for the economy as well as the country. We have spoken about biodiversity and no other country in Europe has as much biodiversity and we must protect it.

The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources must work with the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government on meeting our carbon emissions by 2020. We produce 4.3% from renewable energies and we have signed up to produce 16%. I do not know who will be fined if we miss our carbon credit emission targets. The septic tank fine will be absolutely nothing in comparison to the fine imposed by Europe if we miss these targets. How do we think we will reach the carbon emission targets? In 2011 the Irish power sector produced 13 million tonnes of carbon and this figure must be reduced. The Environmental Protection Agency has already warned us action should be taken.

The previous Government introduced a tax regime for bioethanol crops. The fuel was not taken from food producing land as most of the bioethanol energy came from dairy waste which was good because it killed two birds with one shot. I do not know whether the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources or the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government should examine bioethanol crops and the dairy sector to ensure we meet our targets and do not face massive fines with regard to carbon and renewable energy.

Is the European Commission thinking of changing the accounting rules and action plans for greenhouse gas emission and removals? If so it might facilitate Ireland. Obviously it would not facilitate the environment because we should be striving to reach the targets to which we signed up. I would welcome the climate change Bill. The Presidency will be a time to ensure we put our best foot forward. We are known for and have a history of being clean, green Ireland. I imagine the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government will take a main role in the Presidency to push the clean green image of the natural foods we have.

The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources has plans to increase forestry provision for renewable energy. I do not know what land use, land-use change and forestry, LULUCF, will do. Will it stifle or help forestry production? I presume whatever is introduced will help it. Mention is made of a phased approach to the regulation of greenhouse gas emissions and removals and the second proposal is an immediate introduction of a requirement to develop the LULUCF action plans of member states. How is this related to forestry? No country has mandatory reporting requirements or, I was amazed to hear, data on emissions and removal. If the EU imposes requirements on emissions percentage data how will we reach the target if we are unable to collect the data? It is putting the cart before the horse to impose emission limits if we do not have the data to support it. Are we working on ensuring we are at least beginning to collect the data?

There is so much in this that one could go on forever. I congratulate the Minister on producing the framework for sustainable development which he will launch today. It is a way forward and I look forward to reading it.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We will not miss our greenhouse gas emissions targets for 2012. We are on course to meet the targets set by the Kyoto Protocol. We have challenges for 2020. We are working on this challenge in order to deal with these. We have engaged the NESC secretariat in order to help us with the policy options across Departments. There are regular meetings of the Cabinet sub-committee on climate change and energy security in order to have a co-ordinated role on so many facets of this agenda. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, will produce a renewable energy sector framework in coming weeks. That will give the Senator more meat on the bone on the issues she has raised. I do not want to trespass into that area in advance of his publication.

The LULUCF rules, which will be discussed at next Monday's Luxembourg meeting, will not stifle forestry, but it will require different ways of managing our forestry from an emissions perspective. They are new rules for the purpose of land use and forestry. These are the rules for accountancy purposes about whether cropland, grazing land and forestry are included as part of the accounting rules and if so how they are included. It is quite a technical and complex area but has significance.

Senator Cáit Keane

Will that be available online today or after tomorrow's meeting?

Deputy Phil Hogan

The meeting is not until Monday.

Senator Cáit Keane

Are they private?

Deputy Phil Hogan

Legislative items are normally made available online on Tuesday. We will give members a briefing on it afterwards.

Deputy Niall Collins

I apologise for being late - I was in the Chamber for the start of business. I echo what previous speakers have said about climate change. I believe the public accepts the necessity for a policy change to address the climate change issue. We have seen more wet summers in recent years and in the past 24 hours there has been a flooding incident in east County Cork. People are beginning to understand that these events, which were being described as one in 100 or 150 years, are now becoming more commonplace. From that point of view we have all probably travelled the journey. During our Presidency it would send out the right signal if we made a significant advance in our climate change agenda.

Regarding the establishment of Irish Water, in conjunction with the logistics of delivering the infrastructure, does the Minister have any policy proposal or commitment on the conservation side of the house? I am thinking about a scheme to install infrastructure to allow residential users to harvest rainwater for their non-drinking demand - washing clothes, flushing toilets etc.

Deputy Phil Hogan

There is a very quick turnaround in savings that can be made by implementing water conservation measures. That should be incentive enough for people. As I indicated earlier, in business for a €4.5 million investment 24 companies have made savings of €3 million in the first year so businesses are doing it. We will consider how we might include more robust encouragement for water conservation measures. The metering programme is a bit of a-----

Deputy Niall Collins

Stick.

Deputy Phil Hogan

----- stick. If people want to waste water, they will pay for it.

Deputy Niall Collins

I know that a grant scheme would come down to money.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We are talking about cultural behaviour. We may also be able to consider it through the planning process and having as part of planning conditions the need to have rainwater harvesting.

Chairman

A report to be published by this committee tomorrow will make serious recommendations in that area.

Deputy Phil Hogan

Good. I look forward to it.

Chairman

As we are launching the report at noon, I am very keen to be out of here by 11.30.

Deputy Dessie Ellis

I apologise for missing the start of the meeting. A recent newspaper report indicated that the sea level would rise by half a metre in coming years. That will have considerable effects on vulnerable areas along the coast. Do we have a number of goals in specific areas for our Presidency of the European Union? I know there is a broad range of areas, but do we have specific aims? Would addressing this issue of rising sea levels be one of them? Will we address the matter during our Presidency? The issue is so big it puts other issues into perspective. When considering other matters such as the green economy and energy security, it is vital to consider potential problems on our coastline.

Deputy Phil Hogan

We are publishing an adaptation framework for issues that will set goals and objectives on the matters the Deputy has raised in the context of climate change including the challenges to the coastline. It is proposed to publish an EU adaptation framework in 2013, probably at the latter end of our Presidency. It is quite a lively topic in the European Commission at the moment and will hopefully be finalised by the end of our Presidency and if not then soon thereafter.

Chairman

I call Senator Keane and ask her to be brief.

Senator Cáit Keane

I refer to an article in the Irish Examiner on 29 May, which is very recent.

Chairman

I will give the Senator more time if it is the Irish Examiner.

Senator Cáit Keane

The Ministers, Deputies Hogan and Rabbitte, obviously need to knock their heads together. The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, has said we will be able to be self-sufficient in renewables. A west of Ireland co-operative wind-energy company that is ready to start up has been told it will need to wait until 2020 before being able to connect to the grid, which I think is mad.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I can only take responsibility for the areas for which I am responsible.

Senator Cáit Keane

The Minister is responsible for climate change.

Deputy Phil Hogan

I am, but I am not responsible for connections to the grid.

Senator Cáit Keane

No.

Deputy Phil Hogan

That is a matter for the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte. I will leave him to deal with that when he publishes his framework shortly.

Senator Cáit Keane

I think he had published-----

Chairman

I wish to bring matters to a conclusion. In his opening comments, the Minister said he would publish a report today on sustainable energy. Would it be possible for members of the committee to get a copy of that report?

Deputy Phil Hogan

Yes.

Chairman

I thank the Minister and his officials, Mr. Pat Macken, Mr. John McCarthy and Mr. Owen Ryan, for attending and briefing the committee. I wish the Minister well in his Council meetings next week.

The joint committee adjourned at 11.20 sine die.