I welcome Mr. Robin McKay and Mr. Liam Duggan from the Department of Transport. Before us for scrutiny is COM (2005) 429, concerning common rules in the field of civil aviation and security. The committee would appreciate it if Mr. McKay would give us a brief overview of the document.
Scrutiny of EU Proposals.
Mr. Robin McKay
This is a little unusual in terms of European legislation in that it does not add substantially to the existing regulation. What it is intended to do is to restructure the way the subject is dealt with. The idea is to simplify and harmonise the regulation and clarify and enhance some of the details. The proposed new regulation will lay down basic principles on what must be done to safeguard civil aviation. The technical and procedural measures concerning how this is to be done will then be developed through the comitology procedure in order that the matter can be dealt with more quickly and, in this particular case, more or less secretly because of the nature of the subject. The existing regulation was developed as a Community response to the terrorist events in September 2001 in the United States. A lot of practical experience has been gained in the meantime. Everybody is satisfied that it has provided a very effective basis for European aviation security but there are also some practical issues arising. The regulation contains a lot of technical detail but changing technologies and changing security threats must be considered and a quicker adjustment is required. In the context of the former regulation which is required to go through the Council and Parliament process, this is not a practical way of dealing with it. For obvious reasons, there is a need to keep the detail of the security measures confidential in order that terrorists do not gain the advantage of knowing where the appropriate attack points are.
There is a desire within the Commission to achieve further harmonisation. Experience has shown that the complexity of the existing requirements has resulted in different interpretations in member states. The Department agrees with the Commission that greater clarity will contribute to a more effective implementation of standards. The Commission is looking some distance into the future at the idea of a one-stop security system whereby persons would be screened at one location and, provided they were travelling through Community countries or countries with which the Community had a formal agreement, there would not be a need for further screening. This would simplify the travel experience for passengers.
Dealing with the technical issues will allow the Community to react much more quickly. There is very broad support for this regulation among member states. Obviously, there are differing views on particular words and paragraphs in the text but they are very minor issues. The Department has been supporting the regulation and we do not envisage it presenting problems for the State. The State and the regional airlines already comply with the terms of the existing regulation and this regulation will not introduce, at least initially, anything substantially different.
It might be useful to explain the Department's role in relation to the regulation. Under the existing regulation, the Minister for Transport is the designated national authority. In this role the Department monitors security standards through inspections, tests and audits of airlines, airports and the various service providers. It examines and approves the security and training procedures of the various operators and advises on and approves the security aspects of development projects at airports and new terminals. The role and functions of the Minister and the Department will not change as a result of the new regulation. The Department reckons some minor changes will be needed to the existing statutory instrument that gives effect to the existing regulation but these will not be very significant.
Who supplies and stores the data? I presume they are stored centrally for all of Europe. Who decides who is not an acceptable person to enter the Community and from where is the information gleaned? Is it obtained from the United States or in Europe?
Mr. McKay
That is a very interesting point because, in fact, the regulation does not deal with that issue. It is dealt with by police forces rather than civil aviation security authorities. We are dealing with the anonymous person who, unbeknownst to anybody, may be trying to bring a prohibited article through the system and, therefore, jeopardise safety.
The Department's section does not deal with prohibited individuals.
Mr. McKay
No.
I am far from an expert on this matter. Must Irish airlines now employ greater security measures? Will the delegation give the committee some indication of what the airlines are now doing that was not done before? There was a great hoo-ha in the United States which wanted the global imposition of an arrangement whereby security personnel would be on board all aeroplanes. Many jurisdictions did not like that proposal for a variety of reasons. What will this regulation mean for Ireland?
Mr. McKay
I will ask my colleague, Mr. Duggan, to deal with that question as he works at the coalface.
Mr. Liam Duggan
I thank the Deputy for his question. The EU regulation has made it mandatory for anyone with aviation security responsibilities to impose particular requirements on all airlines, airports, etc. That is the purpose of the regulation. Prior to this, we had a framework intergovernmental agreement which set down basic security measures. The rules were initially set down in 1944 by the International Civil Aviation Organisation, a UN body. Changes have been made over time. The most notable were made in the 1970s when there was a large number of hijackings in the Middle East and the United States. As a consequence, the Americans took decisions to regard in-flight security arrangements as a matter for themselves.
The main organisation at European level dealing with aviation security is the European Civil Aviation Conference which predates the European Union. It could be called the European regional wing of the International Civil Aviation Organisation. It composed basic standards and principles to which member states signed up. Since 11 September 2001, the EU regulation has given formal legal authority to impose those baseline requirements which previously had been in place on a voluntary basis.
Does that mean we were doing of all this already?
Mr. Duggan
Yes. The European Union is now trying to achieve a degree of harmonisation across the Union and to raise standards.
Does that mean we do not have to do any more than we are already doing?
Mr. Duggan
Not particularly but we have tightened up a lot.
In what way?
Mr. Duggan
I cannot describe the precise measures taken but there are now formal procedures in place for the searching and checking of aircraft. This is provided for in the EU regulation which gives airlines precise instructions on what they are obliged to do and the minimum checks they are obliged to implement before an aircraft is loaded with baggage or passengers. It sets down basic procedures for the protection of aircraft while on the ground and other requirements in respect of locked and strengthened cockpit doors and other issues to do with crew training. Extra measures have now been taken as part of the overall security regime for the protection of aircraft.
Does the regulation specify the placement of armed guards on aeroplanes?
Mr. Duggan
That is a matter for individual member states. The draft regulation makes certain provisions about in-flight security but does not compel member states to do this.
In the case of an onward journey involving a change of aeroplane, will problems for the traveller be minimised by means of this regulation?
Mr. McKay
That is a somewhat longer-term aspiration. The difficulty is to achieve a satisfactory level of harmonisation across airports in the Community to the point where everybody will be satisfied to accept each other's checking arrangements. At present, each member state is entitled to screen passengers, cargo and baggage. That is necessary because of the particular security issues in the various countries. Certain member states, which are more exposed than others to security threats in the current set of global circumstances, need to put in place particular measures to suit their needs.
I would like to follow up on what Deputy Connaughton said. Do the airport authorities in this State need to be notified if an airline that uses armed guards is flying into this jurisdiction? I know that certain airlines in the UK have always used armed guards on their flights. Do the Irish airport authorities have to be notified if an airline uses such guards on flights to this country?
Mr. McKay
The question of armed guards on an aircraft being allowed to come to Ireland from another country would need to be dealt with by means of a bilateral agreement at Government level. Such an agreement would have to take account of the security issues which may arise at airports, etc.
Does Ireland have bilateral agreements with any other countries?
Mr. McKay
The Department of Transport would prefer not to comment on that, for obvious reasons. The principle of accepting the use of armed guards was established in a 1973 order relating to the carriage of weapons and munitions on aircraft. The acceptance of such activity, if it is permitted under the law of the other country for the purpose of protecting the aeroplane, was established, in principle, in the 1973 order. The Department would prefer to keep confidential, for security reasons, the details of the countries with which Ireland does or does not have such agreements.
It can be detrimental to passengers to keep such information confidential. Many passengers would prefer to travel on an aircraft that does not have armed guards, rather than on one that does. If the authorities on an airline decide that a person who is behaving in an obstreperous manner is a security risk, they might think it is necessary to use the weapons that are available to them. I appreciate that the departmental officials do not want to make a statement on the matter at this forum but members of the general public should know if they are travelling on an aeroplane that, for any reason, has armed guards on it. If Air Force One arrives at Dublin Airport or Shannon Airport, it is understandable that armed guards will be on board. I accept that armed guards travel with many heads of state on overseas trips. I am worried that passengers may be sitting on commercial airlines without knowing that armed guards are on board. We have all travelled on airlines whose aeroplanes are policed by armed guards but we accepted that because we knew that would be the case before we boarded those planes.
Mr. McKay
I understand the Chairman's remarks, which will be considered within the Department. The corollary of what he has said is that people should be told which airlines do not have armed guards on board. That is the downside of his proposal.
There is such a danger.
Are any sanctions taken against people who do not carry out their duties?
Mr. McKay
The Department has a good working relationship with the airports and the airlines. None of them has objected, in principle, to the imposition of a very high standard of security. The Department has enjoyed a high level of co-operation in its dealings with the airports and the airlines on foot of difficulties that were identified. They acted immediately to resolve such problems in all instances. Air transport security is a developing specialty at European and national levels. All the relevant interests in the air transport sector are pushing out the boundaries and continuing to gain experience from their counterparts. The Department has enjoyed extremely good co-operation with everyone involved in the sector. It has not felt at any stage that it has needed to fall back on formal sanctions.
I think the Department noted in its submission that all the airlines and airport operators in the State are co-operating with it.
Mr. McKay
Yes.
It is important for the committee to be assured that all the stakeholders are co-operating fully with the regulation under consideration. Is that the case?
Mr. Duggan
Yes. They are obliged to comply with the regulation because it is a formal item of law. There are consequences for the operators if they do not comply with it. If a particular airline is not conforming with the requirements of the regulation, that will have potential operational consequences for it, nationally and internationally. If such an airline is flying into an airport in another country, it will get a name overseas for not complying with regulations and, as a consequence, its passengers will be subject to additional security requirements at the airport of arrival. All the operators understand they have to comply with the regulation and are anxious to do so. They are ensuring that their staff and operations are conforming with the regulation's requirements. Aviation security is a layered approach that involves overt and covert measures which are designed to maximise security. One tries to avoid relying fully on a single measure. If there is a failure at one level, it is hoped that it will be picked up at another.
What happens when a failure is picked up?
Mr. Duggan
It depends on the nature of the deficiency. If there is a failure at the level of screening, it will be picked up because there is a random selection aspect at another level.
I would like to ask about Eurocontrol. An Italian airline was allowed to accumulate debts of approximately €17 million before it went into liquidation. Could an airline be in continuous breach of security measures, without any sanctions being imposed, before something eventually happens? In such circumstances, we might have to introduce other legislation to put sanctions in place.
Mr. McKay
It is important to realise that the inconvenience of operational sanctions for the airlines is probably the most effective penalty in this regard. If a flight is delayed because an airline has not properly screened its passengers, all the baggage and the passengers must, at an enormous cost to the airline, be removed from the aeroplane. If it is late arriving at the next airport, it might lose its landing slot. There is a strong commercial incentive for airlines to get it right first time.
Does the committee wish to make any recommendation in respect of the EU regulation under consideration? No. I thank Mr. McKay and Mr. Duggan for answering the committee's questions.
In order to sign off on the report, a message will have to be sent to the Dáil and Seanad and a copy of the report will be laid before the Dáil and Seanad and sent to the Sub-Committee on European Scruitny of the Joint Committee on European Affairs and to the Department of Transport.