Now the Bill is in the position that it can be taken into consideration by the Seanad for the purpose of its Report stage. Perhaps the Minister has now got ready the terms of the amendment to be inserted.
SEANAD IN COMMITTEE. - SEANAD RESUMES.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
On a point of Order if you are going to take the Report stage now I wish to protest very strongly. In the first place the Report stage is not on the Agenda. It is a matter of principle with me because I have no amendment down. It nullifies the whole value of having stages at all if all the stages are to be taken together. It seems to me to make a farce of stages. For that reason I protest against taking the next stage of the Bill now particularly as there is other business to do.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Well, then is it the wish of the Seanad that the further consideration of the Bill be adjourned until to-morrow?
Apparently the Minister has not got his amendment ready, therefore I think the Seanad will do much better to adjourn the Report stage.
Mr. O'HIGGINS
There is no delay about the amendment. If the Seanad is taking the Report stage now I could hand in the amendment in a moment.
I think if the Report stage could be deferred until to-morrow it would be better.
I think it should not be taken so much as a matter of protest as a matter which the Seanad should consider with regard to its entire future procedure. I am quite certain the Cathaoirleach wishes to carry out the wishes of the Seanad with regard to the various Bills and the various stages of the Bills. I think, personally, we ought during the next few days, when we will have to consider the revision of the Standing Orders, make up our minds definitely as to whether we wish to take the various stages of Bills as at present. We have five stages for Bills and four stages in the case of Bills coming from the Dáil, as most of our Bills do. There is one stage which is of a formal character. There are then two stages which take amendments—First, the Committee Stage, and secondly the Report Stage. Personally I do not see very much objection, where a Bill has been before the members for a considerable time, and when we have no other business, to taking the Second and then the Committee Stage. I do think that it is objectionable to take the next stage at which amendments can be moved without at least allowing a moderate time for further consideration. One reason that I feel rather strongly on the question is that when you make amendments in a Bill in Committee Stage, it is almost inevitable that the very making of these amendments will involve consequential amendments which can not be brought up at the time. That is, I think, the main reason for the Report Stage, and I think it is almost essential that there should be a moderate time allowed between the two stages. My personal view is—and I think the Seanad should make up its mind one way or another without delay—that there should be at least a week from the time the Bill is received by us until the Committee Stage, and then at least one or two days from the Committee Stage to the Report Stage.
I take the same view as the last speaker. I think it would be a bad precedent to create. An amendment moved here is rushed into the Bill without any opportunity for review. It would be wiser if the Seanad had time to consider the amendment the Minister has now drafted.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
That is a purely clerical amendment which cannot possibly affect any other part of the Bill. It is an absolute formality.
It is only a question of precedent.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
If any real change were suggested in the Bill I would be the last to suggest to the Seanad to dispose of it now. But in view of the fact that the Bill has gone through without amendment of any kind by the Seanad—except one formal amendment which has been accepted— it does seem to me that nothing is to be gained by anybody by holding up the Bill until to-morrow. Besides, we have the Minister here now and we may not have him to-morrow.
When you put in amendments and leave over the Report Stage until to-morrow, it practically means that the Bill has to be re-printed. In this case it would have to be reprinted for one amendment. Do we contemplate, for the sake of one small amendment, having the whole of a lengthy Bill re-printed and re-circulated, in order that we may consider it on a further occasion? It might involve greater expense than the Seanad would consider justifiable.
The trouble is that we discussed this particular measure under extraordinary difficulties.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
In practice I am informed, that if any amendment is made in a Bill in Committee, it is re-printed.
In the present case we are in the happy position that we have no amendments.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
We have agreed to one amendment; one has been accepted.
There have been more than one.
The mere fact of adjourning the Report Stage would not necessitate the reprinting of the Bill.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
Apparently it would; because there have been certain amendments made in the Bill and the present practice, I am told, is that when a Bill is amended in Committee it is reprinted for the Report Stage. In many cases, of course, that would be necessary.
If extensive amendments were made it would be necessary.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
I might mention that the Government wish to insert on the Report Stage another amendment which is purely formal and due to the omission of a certain certificate that may be signed by these Commissioners. That is a purely formal matter, and the way the matter stands is—and it is well for the Seanad to realise it—that we are proposing now to postpone until to-morrow the discussion of a Bill which has been fully thrashed out, and as to which only two formal amendments have been suggested from any quarter of the House. The question is: Is it worth while when our minds are fresh on the subject to put off the Report Stage until to-morrow?
If I might say, so, in my humble judgment, it is not worth our while. We have discussed this Bill under very peculiar circumstances. We have had three different agendas—three different loose sheets of paper with various amendments, and we have endeavoured under those conditions to fit these things in, practically without much consideration. Still, it is a good Bill on the whole, and our combined eloquence has only succeeded in changing a comma or two. If we had had more time we might have made more changes. I do not think it is worth our while holding up the Bill any longer. I think it would be better finish the Report Stage and have done with it. The Government are mainly responsible for this situation. We do not want it to happen again. If the majority of the Seanad agree to let this Bill be taken and go through the Report Stage now, I hope a similar condition of things will not occur again.
I hope the point as to printing will not interfere with the question. I think that in certain cases typewritten amendments could be circulated. Of course, where there are a large number of amendments, the whole Bill would have to be reprinted. I do not think that the question of printing should be allowed to interfere, but that we should consider whether some time is to elapse between the different stages, or whether it is not.
Mr. O'HIGGINS
I would like to be clear as to what it is that that is not to happen again, so that I might communicate it to the other members of the Government. This Bill was passed in the Dáil close on three weeks ago. I expect it was sent up automatically to the Seanad, and, because of that, I was rather surprised at not seeing any of the amendments that it was proposed to move here to-day until about 2.45 p.m. I am not complaining on that score, but I am surprised to find that there are any complaints against the Government on this Bill.
I wish to say that I do not think that we have any reason to complain of the Government in the matter.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
If there is any fault in regard to this matter, it is the fault of the members who drafted the amendments, because the earliest were only handed in yesterday and the others this morning.
There is the general principle whether we should take the Report Stage on the same day as the Committee Stage. If we wish to lay down a general principle with regard to allowing a fixed interval to elapse between the Committee Stage and the Report Stage, that is a matter which should be dealt with on the Standing Orders, and not on this Bill. Any decision come to now should not be binding on our future action, but merely taken on the merits of the present case.
Question: "That the further stages of the Bill be now proceeded with," put and agreed to.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
There are just two amendments on the Report Stage. The first is the one which has already been referred to by the Minister. It is in Section 4, Sub-section 3, after the word "shall," to insert "unless a District Justice is immediately available."
Amendment put and agreed to.
AN CATHAOIRLEACH
The next amendment is at line 58, to insert another heading (f) there after the heading (e). Under Section 2 of the Registration of Clubs (Ireland) Act, 1904, a certain certificate requires to be signed by two Justices. In future these would be signed by the Peace Commissioner. That was overlooked, and the object of the amendment is to insert it now as an additional one to the others that are catalogued there. The motion is, after line 58 to insert: “(f) Signing the certificate required by Section 2 of the Statute, entitled ‘The Registration of Clubs (Ireland) Act, 1904.’”
Amendment put and agreed to.
Question: "That the Bill do now pass," put and agreed to.