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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 Feb 1926

Vol. 6 No. 8

PUBLIC BUSINESS. - DEFENCE FORCES (TEMPORARY PROVISIONS) (No. 2) BILL, 1925—SECOND STAGE.

Question proposed: "That this Bill be now read a Second Time."

I would like to know if the Minister for Defence could give us any idea as to when he is likely to be able to introduce a permanent Defence Forces Bill. I approve, of course, the principle of an Annual Army Bill, but that does not mean that there should not be some Bill of a permanent character in operation governing the defence forces of the country. The Bill, of which this is merely a continuance, was passed without discussion of any kind in either House. It was merely drafted, introduced and passed in a very hurried and excited time, and that is the Bill under which the army is controlled and maintained at the present time. The Bill was passed in 1923, and sufficient time has now elapsed to enable the Government to introduce a Bill of a permanent character, or, at all events, to give the Oireachtas an opportunity of discussing the Bill under which the Defence Forces of the country are now being maintained.

I understand there is no military school at the present time in existence, and one wonders how the officers of the Army are being trained. If we are to have an Army at all, I think it should be an efficient one, and the efficiency of the Army depends to a large extent on the efficiency of the officers. If there is no military school one finds it difficult to see how efficiency can come about except by accident. There is one other matter I would like to have information upon. I understand that recently instructions were issued to the effect that the Army officers, from the rank of Commandant upward, were to ride to the hunt in future, and provide themselves with the necessary equipment, except the hunter, which is to be supplied by the Army. I want to know whether that order has been issued with the Minister's authority, or merely on the authority of the Army Council. Are these officers, who are not, I think, too highly paid, to get any additional allowance to enable them to follow the hunt and to keep up the style of the round of social engagements and conventions that inevitably follow? That must involve a certain amount of hardship on officers who are married and who have families, and who feel at the same time that they must keep in the front rank so far as social convention is concerned. What is the object of this order? Is it to improve the tone of the Army or to improve the horsemanship of the officers, or is it to raise the social position of the Army in the eyes of the community? I do not think there is any other question that I want to raise, but I should like to have some information with regard to the points I have mentioned.

I do not quite know to what extent we can discuss this matter, or whether we can make any reference to the expenditure on the Army or to the numbers of the Army. I am rather doubtful about the matter.

CATHAOIRLEACH

I do not think there is any great limit. I shall not keep the Senator within strict limits.

I only want to say a few words at any rate. It appears to me that the Army is quite unnecessarily large and quite unnecessarily expensive. I think it should be reduced. There is no one to fight, and I think it is really useless. I believe the proper thing would be to have a very small Army, a few regiments, about 5,000 men or so, and to train a large number of officers, and to have a large reserve force. I will not go into details. I leave that for others. With reference to what Senator O'Farrell said about the officers. I am afraid you must have a reserve of officers, because if they are all obliged to go hunting there may be casualties.

Some of them may not be very young men or very sprightly, and they may find it difficult to ride across country. I think it a very good thing they should be able to ride, and if they are able to hunt so much the better.

As regards the remarks of Senator O'Farrell, it is proposed, during the continuance of the measure which is now before the Seanad, to introduce a permanent Bill to the Oireachtas. I hope that Bill will become law by the time that the present Bill will have expired. As far as a military school is concerned, officers have been getting military education as far as practicable with the resources at our command. At the present time arrangements are being made to send a delegation of officers to America for the purpose of seeing what can be got from the experience there in forming a proper military school in this country. That delegation will probably be sailing in the next couple of months. It will report back to the Army Council and the Government as to the best means of equipping a proper school for training our officers in the best possible manner.

There has been no order either by the Minister or by the Army Council that makes it incumbent for any man in the Army to keep a hunter or to go hunting.

The Army are to provide the hunters.

It is optional for any man to keep a hunter. There are certain regulations whereby an officer can have a hunter fed and foraged by paying a certain amount of money, but there is no obligation on any officer, high or low, to keep a hunter or to go hunting. Colonel Moore said we should not have an Army, and that it is too large, and is useless.

I am afraid the Minister misrepresents me. I said the Army was too large.

The Senator said it was large and useless, and that we had no one to fight at present. I do not agree with that. The Army is a necessity. Some people may think it is too large and some may think it is too small, but I say that the Army up to the present has been the salvation of the country. Whatever we may think about the National Army, we would not be sitting here to-day but for it, and that is a point Senators should take to heart. The strength, equipment and control of the Army is a matter of serious consideration for the Government at all times. If any retrenchments have to be made, they will be made with due regard to the security of the country.

Question put and agreed to.
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