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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 26 Mar 1929

Vol. 11 No. 10

Motion to Suspend Standing Orders.

I move that the Standing Orders be suspended for the purpose of enabling the remaining stages of the Finance (Customs and Stamp Duties) Bill, 1929, to be taken to-day.

I think that all the matters that could be raised on this Bill have been referred to this evening, and that discussion on it has been thoroughly exhausted. If we were to have further discussion on the Bill it would simply resolve itself, I think, into a repetition of the arguments already used. Apart from that, I think it is desirable that this Bill should be finally disposed of before the Easter adjournment.

I second the motion.

I oppose that. I do not think that the mere hope expressed by Senator Milroy is any reason why the Bill should pass through all its stages to-day. There is no necessity for it administratively. The Bill may be the subject of discussion between now and the 10th April. If it is passed on the 10th April it will be just as effective as if passed to-day. The charges that are being made in the Bill, and the powers that are given under it are at present effective. The fact is, if it is passed it makes no alteration except it takes out of the hands of the Seanad the power the Seanad ought to have, to retain it until it is finally satisfied that it should be passed without any recommendation being sent. I think it is a bad habit to follow, and a particularly bad habit for Senator Milroy to suggest—that a Bill dealing with such a matter, and in one clause of which the Seanad is particularly interested, should be rushed through the four stages in one day. The Seanad has a definite duty to consider this Bill, particularly as it is a Bill which while nominally a Money Bill, and rightly certified as a Money Bill, has very important economic and social results. I think on all those grounds the Seanad should not carry the Bill through in one sitting, especially under the circumstances under which we meet, and having regard to the sparse attendance at this meeting. I would be willing to meet the Minister by having the remaining stages taken when we meet after the adjournment, but I think opportunity should be provided for recommendations being sent forward if such are necessary.

I support Senator Johnson, for the reason that it seems to me this Bill appears to recognise the principle that if import duties, that is, customs duties or tariffs, are to be increased there should be a corresponding diminution in the internal revenue. The object, apparently, is to secure that the cost of living should not increase as a result of tariffs. That is a good principle. I do not think it has been given full effect to in the Bill. Perhaps if some time were given for consideration the Minister might see his way to go further in this direction, that is, when he puts on a customs duty by way of a tariff he should remove the excise or internal duty to a corresponding degree. It is for the reason that I think that time should be given for consideration, and so as to give the Minister time for considering the arguments put forward here, that I support Senator Johnson.

I would like to ask the Minister is there any urgent reason why the Bill should be passed now?

Cathaoirleach

Yes. We have twenty-one days in which to return the Bill. If we meet on the 10th April and a motion is made to suspend Standing Orders the same position might arise as now. If we do not return the Bill we fail to do our duty. It has been thoroughly discussed to-day. If ever there was a case for the suspension of Standing Orders it is on this occasion.

It would be more beneficial as regards one section to have the Bill through to-day than on the next occasion when the Seanad meets, because the Bill gives relief to the firm of Fords. That firm is giving a great deal of employment, and the concession to them will not take effect until the Bill goes through.

Would that have any effect on production of tractors in the meantime?

The firm is clamouring for it.

Is it necessary, from the Minister's point of view, that the Bill should be put through before the end of the financial year? As I understand, he has all the powers necessary under the Resolution.

It is not necessary.

Question put. The Seanad divided: Tá, 8; Níl, 10.

Bagwell, John.Byrne, Alfred.Costello, Mrs.Earl of Granard, The.

MacKean, James.Milroy, Seán.Nugent, Sir Walter.Phaoraigh, Siobhán Bean an.

Níl

Barrington, William.Comyn, Michael, K.C.Farren, Thomas.Foran, Thomas.Hooper, P.J.

Johnson, Thomas.Keane, Sir John.MacEllin, Seán E.O'Farrell, John T.Robinson, Séamus.

Motion declared lost.

Cathaoirleach

When is it proposed to take the Committee Stage?

I move that we meet again to-morrow.

Would it not be in sufficient time if we passed this Bill a fortnight hence?

Cathaoirleach

If the Seanad agrees then to suspend the Standing Orders to put the Bill through it will be in time, but if not we will not be able to comply with our duty in returning the Bill within the specified time.

The Bill reached us only a few days ago, and there is only a fortnight between now and the 10th April. It is quite consistent to refuse to suspend Standing Orders to-day and to agree to suspend them at our next meeting. There is nothing inconsistent in that. There is not much object in adjourning the Bill so that time may be given for the introduction of recommendations if we must meet to-morrow and have those recommendations ready. I propose that the consideration of the Committee Stage of this Bill be fixed for April 10th.

I beg to second that.

Question put and agreed to.
The Seanad adjourned at 6.22 p.m. until Wednesday, 10th April.
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