Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 Jun 1931

Vol. 14 No. 21

Local Elections and Meetings (Postponement) Bill, 1931—Committee.

Section 1 agreed to.

SECTION 2.

(1) The triennial elections of members of local authorities (other than the councils of county boroughs) which are due to be held next after the passing of this Act shall be and are hereby postponed until such date not later than the 15th day of July, 1934, as the Minister shall by order appoint.

(2) Every election of members of a local authority (other than the council of a county borough) which is not a triennial election but is required by law to be held within a period expiring within three years after the passing of this Act shall, notwithstanding anything contained in any other enactment, be held on such date, whether before or after the expiration of the said period of three years but not in any case later than the 15th day of July, 1934, as the Minister shall appoint.

(5) An order under this section (including this sub-section) appointing the date for the holding of an election may be revoked by the Minister by a subsequent order but in every such case the Minister shall by such subsequent order appoint a new date not later than the 15th day of July, 1934, for the holding of such election.

Mr. Comyn

I move amendment 1.

Section 2, sub-section (1): To delete the figures "1934" in line 36, and to substitute therefor the figures "1933."

On the Second Reading of this Bill, we objected very strenuously to the life of a representative institution being increased from three to six years—doubling the period of its existence. I do not propose to go over all the arguments which we urged on the last occasion. The Seanad agreed that the Minister had made a case for extending the life of the county councils but I submit that the Minister made no case for doubling the life of the county councils. He made a case for some extension, but he did not make a case for three years extension. The object of my amendment is to allow him an extension of two years. Whatever amendments he has to make in local government law can be considered within that time. I do not see that he can make many improvements. He may make a number of amendments but he should be careful to see that his amendments will be improvements, because this local government law is a code which has been carefully considered. It has been in conformity with the wishes of the people and I hope the Minister will take a word of warning. I hope too, that he will agree that a two-year period is sufficient for the consideration of his new legislation. I am quite satisfied that if the Minister does not consider two years enough and says to you he will require three years, that he will get a vote against any argument that I can urge. That is my opinion based on the Second Reading proceedings on this Bill.

Mr. Johnson

I support this amendment. On the Minister's own argument, he does not require three years. Notwithstanding Senator Comyn's exaggeration of the importance of time for consideration of the Bill, the Minister has told us that he already has the scheme well in hand. He knows pretty well what he is going to do. I am sure that he has the framework of the Bill already prepared, and that it is not the preparation of the Bill that will cause any long delay. If the Minister says that three years are required, then no time is needed, because three years from now would represent the normal life of the councils. It would not be necessary to pass such legislation as this if it were expected that three years would be required. The utmost that can be claimed is an extension of two years and that is what this amendment proposes. On these grounds, I support the amendment.

Minister for Local Government and Public Health (General Mulcahy)

The amendment by Senator Comyn presupposes that everything requiring to be done in connection with this legislation, and the setting up of the councils after this legislation, will have taken place inside two years. I said on the previous reading of this measure that the matter we proposed to deal with in this legislation was of the greatest possible importance. It means putting more or less the final touches to the machinery of local government in this country along the lines towards which we have been tending for some years past. It deserves to be considered in the most careful way possible and apart from any Party considerations that might be brought in in connection with, say, a general election. I have not yet persuaded myself that the subject matter can satisfactorily be dealt with between now and whatever time a general election takes place. I have not come to any conclusions on that matter yet. I do not want to be driven to hurried conclusions. The Executive Council may come to the decision to introduce this legislation before the general election, or they may not. This amendment would tie us down in our consideration of, say, surrounding circumstances in connection with this legislation as well as details of the legislation itself. It would tie us down to having all these matters completed before the end of two years, or, alternatively, coming to the Dáil and to the Seanad to get this period extended. I think it is reasonable to allow the figure in the Bill to stand. I think it would be unreasonable to clip the period down to such an extent as might cause even a moderate amount of inconvenience.

Mr. Comyn

If the Minister, on the last occasion when he was here, said what he has said now, my amendment would be to extend the time for one year only. However, as I have the amendment down for a period of two years, let it go at that. The Minister, on the last occasion, informed us that he would not bring in a new Bill during the last few months of an old Parliament. Now he does not seem to be at all opposed to the idea of bringing in his amending Local Government Bill in the declining hours of this old Parliament.

The McGillycuddy of the Reeks

It may have several hours yet to run.

Mr. Comyn

Senator The McGillycuddy of the Reeks is constituting himself a prophet. He says this Parliament has several hours still to run. The wish is father to the thought. If the Minister has amending legislation he should have it ready within six months. If he has ideas about local government I am perfectly certain that they are very definite ideas and they are ideas that will not be dislodged by me. We have never succeeded in dislodging the Minister from any opinion he expressed in this House up to the present. He knows what he is going to do and surely he can formulate his measures within six months. He could pass them through the Seanad, certainly, with lightning-like rapidity, and he could have the whole thing done within a few months. The Minister has shown no reason whatever for extending the lives of these county councils for three years longer than their allotted span. We can only surmise that he is not in favour of elected bodies. I hope the Minister will not oppose this amendment. If he finds that it requires three years he can come here next year, if his Government is in power next year, and he can ask for an extension of the Act of Parliament.

Amendment put and negatived.

Cathaoirleach

Does Senator Comyn wish to move his further amendments?

Mr. Comyn

The principle is decided. I do not wish to waste the time of the House or the breath of the Minister.

Amendments 2 and 3, by leave, withdrawn.

Sections 2 to 15, inclusive, and the Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment.

Fourth Stage fixed for Wednesday, 17th June.