Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 16 Dec 1931

Vol. 15 No. 4

Railways (Valuation for Rating) Bill, 1931—Second Stage.

Question proposed —"That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The necessity for this Bill arises out of the change in the conditions affecting transport here, due to a decrease in the earnings of the railway companies and an increase of costs in certain directions. The valuation of the railways has hitherto been governed by the valuation Act of 1852. That Act fixes the valuation on the following basis:—

Such valuation in regard to houses and buildings shall be made upon an estimate of the net annual value thereof; that is to say, the rent for which, one year with another, the same might in its actual state be reasonably expected to let from year to year, the probable average annual cost of repairs, insurance, and other expenses (if any) necessary to maintain the hereditament in its actual state, and all rates, taxes, and public charges, if any (except tithe rent charge) being paid by the tenant.

So that railway valuation was based on the rent which a hypothetical tenant would pay. However, the method of arriving at that rent was not laid down, and the effect for at least fifty years has been to take the receipts of the railway companies over periods of one year or three years prior to the making of the valuation, and to make allowances for the maintenance of the permanent way, for the renewal of fixed plant, and then to make further allowances in respect of tenant's capital as represented by rolling stock, tools, furniture, working capital and floating cash. Up to recently that system worked fairly well, but under present conditions it has been found that the continuance of the system would mean that the valuations of the railway companies' running line, stations, and so on would disappear. During the last few years, when the railways on a couple of occasions have been applying for revision of valuation, it was arranged by the Commissioner of Valuation to give a percentage reduction. There have been negotiations with the railway companies with a view to arriving at a new basis of valuation. It was not possible to proceed very easily with that.

We have now got a Bill which represents the result of negotiations between the Commissioner of Valuation and the railway companies, and the result of correspondence with the Commissioner of Valuation in Northern Ireland, the Northern Ireland Valuation Office being affected because certain lines, principally the Great Northern, run both in the Free State and in Northern Ireland. The Bill follows very largely the lines of legislation which it was found necessary to put into operation in England, and for the same reasons that legislation has been found necessary here. This Bill differs in one important respect from the legislation in Great Britain. In Great Britain no minimum valuation has been fixed, and under the legislation which has been adopted there it would be possible, if there were to be a continued decline in the prosperity of the railway companies there, for a nil valuation to be arrived at just as it would under present circumstances be possible here, and, in fact, be certain on the next valuation to have a nil valuation.

We have provided in this Bill for a minimum valuation which, in respect of running lines, will be represented by the agricultural value of the land on which the lines are laid, and in respect to buildings will be one-third of the valuation of those buildings if they had been valued in 1914. That will be a fixed minimum beyond which the railway valuation cannot fall, no matter what may be the financial condition of the railways. The justification that we have for inserting that minimum valuation is that if the railways are being worked, if people are in occupation of them and are working them, it may reasonably be assumed that there is beneficial occupation of the line and that some contribution at any rate, no matter what the condition of the company may be, should go to the various local charges.

The Bill, apart from that particular point, is in general agreement with the legislation which has been adopted in Great Britain. It definitely makes statutory what has heretofore been only customary. That is, it makes the revenue, after certain allowances, the basis of valuation. The Valuation Commissioner and the courts adopted the revenue basis in the past, because it was the only sort of basis on which it was possible to determine what rent a hypothetical tenant might pay for a railway line for the purpose of working it as a business concern. It is relatively easy to determine what rent would be paid for a shop. You have lots of other shops and you can determine the rent by relating it to hundreds of other shops whose structure, condition and situation are somewhat the same. You could not proceed in that way in the case of a railway line. Therefore, although there was no statutory provision for it, the Commissioners of Valuation and the courts in the past were driven to adopt that basis, but it had nothing in support of it except custom. In this Bill it is made the definite basis of valuation for the railways. Provision is set out in the Bill for determining the net receipts of the railway company over a period of five years. Provision is also made for making statutory another matter that hitherto has been customary — that is, the division of the valuation over a railway line. Hitherto the valuation has been divided over various sections of the railway line with reference to the train mileage, the traffic on each section, and so on. That might have been challenged and might have been the subject of expensive litigation, though when the matter is examined into it is really the only practicable way of dividing the valuation of a running line.

It would be impossible to fix the valuation of each section of a running line with reference to receipts and expenditure, because to do that would involve the keeping of books which it would be impossible to expect the railway companies to keep. One of the things that it is sought to do by this Bill, apart from providing for a minimum valuation and apart from making statutory the revenue system of valuation to the existing system of distribution of valuation by reference to traffic, is to set aside from the consideration of the Commissioner of Valuation and the courts the scale of allowances which have hitherto been made by the courts for tenants' capital. In the past the courts have allowed interest or made allowances in respect to tenants' capital, amounting in some cases to 17½ per cent., the average being 15 per cent. Of course if such a large amount were to be allowed in the future it would have the effect of unduly reducing the net valuation of the undertaking. It is provided in the Bill that in future the court shall not have regard to the existing custom or practice in that respect. It is proposed to move an amendment later which will clarify the wording of the section. The provision now is that the net receipts having been ascertained, the valuation should be fixed on that basis. The Commissioner of Valuation or any court before which the matter may go, can take into account all the relevant circumstances and material considerations with a view to arriving at such estimated rent as represents a fair and a just division of the net receipts as between landlord and tenant. Of course it is perfectly clear that there must be allowances for tenants' capital — some fair allowances — but the custom which has governed this whole matter in the past has allowed an amount that is in excess of what is necessary or reasonable, and has tended to produce this position: where with less prosperity than was formerly the case it would be quite certain in many cases, and likely in every case, that a revision of valuation would now lead to a nil return. I have one particular district noted, for instance — the Dublin and South Eastern district. A rough calculation showed that without the slightest shadow of doubt a revision, if now carried through, would result in a nil valuation in respect of that whole district.

The Bill is somewhat technical in wording, but the principles are clear enough, and I think very fair. From the point of view of the ratepayers they are an improvement on the present position, and from the point of view of the railway companies I do not think they are harsh. One of the ways in which the Bill alters the present position permanently to the disadvantage of the railway companies is to provide that no matter how things go the companies shall always have to pay rates on at least the agricultural value of the land on which the lines are laid, and in respect to buildings and other structures on one-third of the 1914 valuation.

I would like to know from the Minister what is the position of a railway company that abandons the whole or a portion of its line?

I would like to know from the Minister whether the revaluation of all the railways in the country will be undertaken as soon as this Bill becomes law? Will the lines that have been closed for a long period be taken into consideration? I take it that the revaluation of the railways will continue for a very considerable time. I wonder could the Minister give us any idea as to the length of time it will take? If the work is undertaken piecemeal, will the new valuations be applied to the railways concerned? In other words, will the Government wait until all the lines in the country have been valued to put this new legislation into effect? I would like to know also from the Minister — possibly he may not be able to give me any information on this — whether under the new valuation the railways will be in any better position financially than they are to-day, and whether the valuations anticipated under this Bill will be lower than those on which the railway companies are rated at present. I take it that the idea of this legislation is remedial and that the companies will derive benefit from it. It is admitted, I think, by most people that the railways are now very heavily rated, particularly when one considers the amount of competition they have to meet from road transport. I would also like to know whether the Minister can tell us if the railway companies were consulted when this Bill was being drafted, whether they have accepted the new position, and whether they have agreed to the general clauses in the Bill?

Perhaps the Minister could tell us a little about those parts of the railway which are abandoned or which are going to be abandoned? Is it intended to pull up all the rails, to dismantle the railways entirely, or merely to leave them unused for the present but in a condition so that they could be used at some future time, as they may be? Is it the intention to sell the lines?

Will the Minister tell us on what basis the agricultural valuation will proceed? If my recollection serves me right, there has never been an agricultural valuation since the days of Griffith, and that valuation has become stabilised. Am I right in supposing that the agricultural valuation is going to be based merely on Griffith's valuation of adjoining land or are we going to start de novo on some new principle?

I would like to get some further information regarding the lines operating both in the Six and the Twenty-Six Counties. The Minister mentioned the Great Northern line. It seems to me there will not be much difficulty in securing the information required in respect of that railway and in relation to the assistance to be given by it. There is another railway which has its headquarters in the Six Counties, but practically the whole of the line is in the Twenty-Six Counties. I refer to the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway. That is an undertaking that is not paying at all. How would that railway stand under the Bill? Is it likely that there will be any benefit accruing to the ratepayers from that undertaking?

This valuation will be carried out at once. The fundamental thing is to determine the net receipts of any particular company. Another thing that has to be determined is the minimum valuation. That can be done readily from information already in the hands of the Commissioner of Valuation. If the receipts are small in relation to any particular line or section of a line, the minimum valuation stands. Taking the whole line, if the net receipts are small the position would be that the minimum valuation would hold. If the receipts are large, then the process of valuation is really the determination of the net receipts, the making of whatever allowances may be found necessary and the distribution of the balance over the various hereditaments. Essentially the whole thing has to be done at once. It cannot be done in any piecemeal way.

Senator Guinness asked if the companies will derive benefit from this. Strictly speaking, they will not derive any benefit from the Bill. The railway companies would be better off if no Bill were passed. The result of that would be that in most districts, possibly in all, there would be next March a nil valuation. It would, of course, suit the railway companies better to have a nil valuation than to have any valuation because they would be relieved of rates. On the other hand, revaluation even under this Bill will not give them the reduction they would get without legislation. It is a matter for legal authorities afterwards; it is a matter for the court if there is an appeal; but so far as one can be sure about it there will be reductions in the valuations when revisions take place under this Bill.

The Minister has stated that the whole valuation is based on the net receipts. The net receipts are a very fluctuating item; they fluctuate from year to year. Is the Minister going to take one particular year or a series of years?

Five years. With regard to acceptance by the railway company, I do not say that the railway companies have accepted it with enthusiasm, but at least they have acquiesced in it. They are not raising any agitation in regard to it. I think the railway companies recognise that they cannot expect that no legislation will be introduced or that legislation should be introduced which would still leave the position that the local authorities might be deprived of any rates whatever. The only point the railway companies ought to feel inclined to object to is the provision for the minimum valuation. The railway companies would have preferred that our legislation should be along the English lines and no minimum should be mentioned. Even in respect of the minimum. I think the railway companies, having regard to the general position in the country, feel that the provisions of the Bill are reasonable.

I have been asked what is meant by agricultural valuation. We do not mean a new valuation; it is really the valuation fixed with reference to the adjoining land. The Griffith valuation, in fact, shall apply. So far as towns are concerned land occupied by a running line would be governed by a site valuation.

With regard to the railways which run both in Northern Ireland and the Free State, I do not think any great difficulty will arise because, so far as this will apply, principally to the Great Northern Company, the Company must furnish all the figures the Commissioner of Valuation requires. It must divide its receipt and expenditure between Northern Ireland and the Free State. The Company will make its own division and it will furnish the Commissioner of Valuation with any figures and further information he may require in order to carry out a check and make his division. I think all the facts will be there and there will be no great difficulty experienced.

I take it that so far as the Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway is concerned, that will be a line on which there will be a minimum valuation. I do not think the receipts will be such as to leave any surplus for distribution over the various sections of the line. Consequently, the part either Northern Ireland or the Saorstát will obtain will depend on the amount of land occupied by running lines in the two areas and on the value of the various buildings which exist in the two areas.

With regard to the question raised by Senator Sir John Keane about the abandonment of the line, the position is that if a branch line becomes derelict the buildings would be reduced to nil and the running line would have its minimum valuation — that is, its agricultural land valuation.

Perhaps the Minister would kindly give us the information I asked for?

Senator Colonel Moore raised the question about the pulling up of the line. That is a matter that does not arise under this Bill. I have not any information in regard to it, but it would not be affected by the Bill in any way that I know of. I do not think anything in the Bill would affect the position in regard to that.

Is it a fact that whoever owns the land, whether there are rails on it or not, would still be responsible for rates?

On the land, yes.

Section 7 (1) (b) covers that. It would be a non-running line, and it would still continue to be non-running if the rails were pulled up. I fancy in that case there would be one-third of whatever the valuation would be in August, 1914.

The buildings would not be rated, and the land would be rated on the agricultural valuation. The general valuation law covers it.

The Minister is, no doubt, right in saying that the matter I have referred to does not come directly under the Bill, but perhaps as a matter of information, even if it is not official information, he could tell us whether these lines are to be demobilised altogether and if it is the intention to take up the rails.

I think the position almost certainly is this, that if any line has now to be abandoned it is never likely to be opened again, no matter what is done in the way of regulation or taxation. To some extent the diversion of traffic to roads must be regarded as permanent. If it becomes impossible to continue a line under present conditions I do not think any circumstances are likely to arise that would cause that line to be reopened.

Even with the Drumm Battery?

With anything.

In connection with the valuation of railways, I would like to point out that in the barony of Claremorris there is a rate of 2d. in the £ for the railway between Claremorris and Ballinrobe. Will the farming community be relieved of that rate?

This Bill does not affect it.

Where is the advantage of the Bill so?

Question—"That the Bill be now read a Second Time"—agreed to.

Barr
Roinn