Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 13 Mar 1946

Vol. 31 No. 9

Aran Islands Transport Bill, 1946—Second and Subsequent Stages.

Minister for Industry and Commerce (Mr. Lemass)

The purpose of this Bill is to make provision for the maintenance of a shipping service between Galway and the Aran Islands, and for the payment of subsidies to the company operating that service. As I think most Senators will be aware, the steamship service is the only regular service available for the transport of passengers and goods between the mainland and the islands. The maintenance of this service is, therefore, essential to the life of the community living on the islands. The service has been in operation for a number of years but owing to the limited amount of traffic available it has never been self-supporting. To ensure its continuance it has been necessary to subsidise it from public funds, and the Galway Bay Steamship Company has been in receipt of subsidies for that purpose since the year 1891. Before 1930 the total subsidies amounted to £1,000 per annum. Between 1931 and 1945 the annual average subsidy was approximately £500.

The Aran Islands Transport Act, 1936, which it is now proposed to repeal, made provision for the payment of annual subsidies in respect of the operation of this service, and it provided also for the payment of occasional subsidies to meet the cost of overhauls of the vessel used in the service.

The amount of the annual subsidy was limited to £300 and it was provided in that legislation that the subsidy would not be paid for any year subsequent to 1945. In accordance with the provisions of that Act, an agreement was made with the Galway Bay Steamship Company for the operation of a regular service. That agreement provided for fixed annual subsidy of £300 and, in addition, an occasional subsidy to be paid when the vessel engaged in the service, the Dun Aengus, had to undergo a periodic overhaul. The occasional subsidy was limited to the amount by which the cost of the overhaul exceeded £1,200 and was not recoverable from insurance or other sources. That agreement in accordance with the provisions of the Act terminated on the 31st December last.

Owing to the shortage of coal and the poor quality of the coal available the service has been greatly curtailed during the emergency. The main items of expenditure are fuel costs and wages paid to the crew. Despite the reduction in the service occasioned by the curtailment in the supply of coal, the expenditure both in respect to fuel and wages has actually increased. Furthermore, the company formerly earned a substantial revenue by the provision of a tender service for ocean liners which is no longer available to it. To offset the increased cost and to make up for the loss of the company's other sources of revenue, increased charges were made, but despite these increased charges the company has been operating for some years at a heavy loss. So critical was the company's position in 1945 that it was found necessary to make an extra subsidy payment of £700 under the authority of an Emergency Powers Order.

The vessel is now due for overhaul, and the company have no funds available for this purpose. There is at present no statutory provision for the payment of subsidies to meet the costs of overhaul, or to cover the annual loss incurred in working the service. This Bill now before the Seanad proposes to re-enact the general provisions of the 1936 Act, which empowered the Minister for Industry and Commerce to contract for the carrying on of a shipping service for the carriage of passengers and goods between the City of Galway and the Aran Islands. Such contracts may include provisions relating to the maintenance, repair, insurance and disposal of the vessel; frequency and times of service; the regulation of charges and other relevant matters. Provision is also made in the Bill for the continued payment of an annual subsidy in respect of the operation of the Aran service, and for an occasional subsidy to meet the periodic overhaul of the vessel. The amount of the annual subsidy necessary to ensure the continued operation of the service is not specifically determined. The amount may vary, depending on operating costs, the availability of supplies, and the possibility of the resumption of certain other profitable services by the company, such as tending liners. With an improvement in conditions generally, there should be a reasonable prospect that the amount of the annual subsidy will tend to diminish progressively. The amount of the subsidy is subject to the sanction of the Minister for Finance, and will be included in the Estimates submitted annually to the Dáil. It is anticipated that the amount of the subsidy for 1946 will be £500.

The vessel in question, the S.S. Dun Aengus was acquired by the Galway Bay Steamship Company by means of a loan of £7,500 granted to them by the Congested Districts Board in 1912. An outstanding balance of £3,694 of the loan was remitted by means of a Supplementary Estimate in 1935. In consideration of that remission, the Minister for Industry and Commerce acquired by the terms of the agreement, which was made in 1938 and to which I have referred, the right to enforce the transfer to him of the vessel on the termination of the agreement. The agreement, as I have mentioned, terminated on the 31st December last, but it is proposed to defer the enforcement of the provision for the transfer of the vessel for the time being. Section 4 of this Bill, and the new agreement which it is proposed to enter into with the Galway Bay Steamship Company for the operation of the service, will postpone the date of the transfer of the vessel while it continues to be used on the Aran service in accordance with the terms of the agreement.

The vessel was last overhauled in 1941. An overhaul is now due, and provision will be included in the Estimates for 1946 for the amount necessary to cover the cost of overhaul. It now appears from information received, as a result of a dry-dock examination of the vessel, that more extensive repairs than could have been ascertained when the vessel was originally examined, will be necessary, so that the total cost of the overhaul will be about £6,000. An estimate for that amount, less whatever sum may be recoverable by way of insurance, will be introduced in the Dáil this year. These are the main provisions of the Bill. I think the House will agree that it is desirable that this service should be continued, and as it cannot be continued without assistance from public funds, the proposals concerning subsidies are, therefore, necessary.

Liam O Buachalla

Tá mé cinnte go rithfear an Bille seo gan morán diospóireachta. Tá fáilte againn go léir roimhe. Ní maith liom an ócáid a leigean thart gan a chur iniúl don Aire chomh mór atá gach dream a mbainfidh an Bille seo leo fá chomaoin aige as ucht na cabhrach atá sé a thabhairt faoin mBille agus mar gheall ar an gcabhair a thug sé sna blianta atá caite leis an tseirbhís a choinneáil ar bun. Tá muintir na n-oileán an-tsásta agus tá lucht gnótha na Gaillimhe mar aon leis an dream mór a théigheas ar chuairt go dtí na hoileáin gach bliain an-tsásta.

Ní féidir aon locht fháil ar choinníollacha airgeadais an Bhille. Tá siad fial agus tá siad riachtanach. Tá súil againn nach mbeidh gá i gcomhnaí leis an gcabhair atá á deonú don Chomhlacht. Ní mheasaim féin gur ar an gComhlacht féin atá an milleán nár éirigh leo a mbealach íoc. Ní mheasaim go bhféadfaidís mórán níos mó a dhéanamh ná rinne siad. Tá an-tsúil agam nach fada go mbeidh ré na síochána ann i gceart ionnas go mbeidh an deis acu ar ioncom breise a bhaint amach, oiread agus a fhágfas neamhspleách iad do chabhair ó airgead phoiblí.

Ag an am gcéanna, ba mhaith liom a rá go bfeictear dom nach leór an Bille seo leis an gceist ar fad a réiteach. Ar an gcéad dul síos ní maith liom an tiodal atá ar an mBille, ba mhaith liom an focal "Loingseoireacht" agus an focal "Cathair" a bheith as—nach mbeadh i gceist ach deis iompair go dtí na hoileáin—agus gan tada a rá faoi "bháid" go speisialta.

Tá pobal an-líonmhar sna hoileáin. Déantar cuid mhaith tráchtála coitianta idir na hoileáin agus an mórthír. Ach ina dhiaidh sin, ní mheasaim go mbeidh ar chumas an comhlachta níos mó ná dhá sheirbhís sa tseachtain a chur ar fáil—nuair a bheas ócáid na héigeandála thart. Roimh an gcogadh rití, uaireanta, trí sheirbhís sa tseachtain—le linn aontaí go mór-mhór rithidís seirbhís bhreise.

Ach ní fheileann go gcaithfear bheith a brath ar dhá sheirbhís sa tseachtain. Sé an rud ba mhaith liom, go rithfí bád éadrom idir na hoileáin agus, abair Ros a's Mhíl, andeas nach bhfuil ach thimpeall naoi míle slí ar a mhéid. D'fheilfeadh seirbhís mar í seo do phaisinéirí, agus do thrácht éadrom mar éisc de shaghsanna áirid, uibheacha, éanlaithe agus a leithéid. Báid ar nós an báid thárrthála an saghas atá i gceist agam.

Meabhraionn an bád tárrthála deacracht eile dom. Mar dúirt mé, tá líon mór daoine ina gcomhnaí ar na hoileáin. Uaireanta, tagann tinneas dona go tobann ar dhaoine agus ar gá iad a chur go dtí ospaidéil. Mar tá an scéal ní mór dóibh fanacht leis an Dún Aonghusa—rud a bhíos contuirteách. D'fheilfeadh bád éadroma go mór le cásanna den tsaghas seo a dheifriú isteach go dtí óthar-charr ar an móirthír—ag Carb, abair, nó isteach go Gaillimh féin. Níor thuigeas, agus ní thuigim fós, cén fáth nach bhféadfaí réiteach a dhéanamh le lucht ceannais an bháid thárrthála, daoine a bheadh an-tinn a thabhairt go dtí an mórthír.

Ní bhéinn féin a súil leis an bhfeabhsú seo fá láthair—go mórmhór mar gheall ar na deacrachta atá ann maidir le gual, artola, inill, agus a leitheidí. Tá súil agam áfach nach seo an focal deiridh ar an gceist.

Molaim an Bille agus arís glacaim buíochas leis an Aire ar a bhfuil beartaithe aige faoi.

I did not intend to say very much on this Bill except, briefly, to express, on behalf of the various interests concerned in it, their thanks to the Minister and to the Department for the interest and the kind consideration they have consistently shown for so long in regard to this particular service. The company itself, so far as I know, have never received anything in return for their capital. So far as I know, they got no payment of dividends over a great number of years. Now, whether they could have done anything more in the way of providing a paying service is something that I doubt very much, and in view of that, the help given by the Minister is appreciated Very much; it is certainly appreciated very much by the Aran people themselves, by the business people of Galway, and by that very large body of people who come year after year to visit the islands.

I just want to stress at the same time that while, in the circumstances, the provisions contained in the Bill are eminently satisfactory, I believe that this matter requires further attention. There is a very large population on these islands. There is a considerable amount of ordinary commercial traffic being carried on, but there is also a certain type of traffic which calls for a service of more than once a week or twice a week. At the present time, I think, the most the company can provide is a twice-weekly service, and I understand that on special occasions, such as fairs and markets, they are sometimes able to provide a service three times a week.

I suggest, however, that it should be possible to provide a more frequent service for light traffic. There is a distance of about nine miles, at the closest point, between the islands and the mainland, where a light boat might run in with light traffic such as, for instance, fish or, on certain occasions, eggs, poultry, and so on, as well as passengers. There are cases, however, with which some of us are familiar— very sad cases—of people being taken suddenly ill and having no means of getting out of the islands to hospital.

It often occurred to me, especially during the emergency, that it was a pity that some effort could not be made to vary the regulations governing the life-boat service to enable such people to be taken to the mainland, or even up to Galway city, so that they could be brought to hospital in time. However, what I want to stress is that I hope that what is contained in this Bill is not by any means the last word in connection with the Aran-Galway service. So much faith have I in Córas Iompair Éireann that I should like to see this matter transferred to them. As a matter of fact, I think that when this Bill was going through the Dáil, the hope was expressed that that particular service would come under their control. In the meantime, however, in view of all the difficulties that exist in regard to the provision of transport of any kind, and in view of what I myself believe to be the very generous provisions that are provided in the Bill, I am very happy to welcome the Bill as it stands, while expressing at the same time the hope that developments on the lines I have indicated will take place in due course.

Lughaidh O Deaghaidh

Mar Stiurthóir de Chomhlacht Loingis Chuan na Gaillimhe cuirim fáilte roimh an mBille seo. Níl an Comhlacht sin ainmnithe sa mBille seo ach sé an Comhlacht atá ag rith an bháid idir Gaillimh agus Oileáin Arann agus tá an tseirbhís sin faoin a chúram.

Mar dúirt an tAire tuairim sé bliana déag ó shoin bhí an Comhlacht sin ag fáil míle punt gach bliain ach ón mbliain naoi gcéad déag agus triocha sé ní raibh sé ag fáil ach trí chéad punt sa mbliain agus caithfidh sé dha chéad déag punt a chaitheamh ar an mbád an Dún Aonghas, gach ceathrú bliain. De bhrí sin, níorbh fhiú an deontas sin dada don chomhlacht.

Ach anois táimíd ag déanamh an bháid níos fearr agus tá súil agam go bhféadfaimid an obair a dhéanamh níos fearr feasta agus loingseoireacht mhaith a thabhairt do mhuintir Árann.

Níl ainm an Comhlachta sa Bille seo agus is ceart é sin ar an ábhar go bhfuil cead ag an Aire connradh a dhéanamh le haon chomhlacht eile muna mbeadh ar Comhlacht ag tabhairt seirbhís mhaith do mhuintir Árann ná do mhuintir na Gaillimhe.

As one of the directors of the Galway Bay Steamboat Company, Limited, which is the company that runs this service to Aran, I welcome this Bill. The name of the company is not mentioned in the Bill, and I think that this is quite right, because the Minister, evidently, reserves the right to make a contract with any other company if he considers that he can get a better service for the Aran people than we can give them. I think that that is very proper, because it is the people of Aran that must be considered, and not the company. Now, it must be remembered that we have been running this service at a certain amount of disadvantage. As the Minister mentioned, the company was getting, up to the year 1930 or 1931, £1,000 a year from the Government of the day. Since then, the amount has been reduced, and under the 1936 Act we were getting £300 a year. Now, although we got £300 a year, we could not use that for the actual purpose of the service because every four years there had to be a complete overhaul of the Dún Aengus, and that cost £1,200. The Government paid the balance, but when we got the £300, we had to hold on to that until we were able to make up the rest. The Minister came to our aid last year and gave us a grant of £700, which was very useful, and we are now running the service better than we were running it before, and we are in a happier position than we have been for a long time. As, I think, Senator O Buachalla said, this company has only paid a dividend once in the last 40 years, and so the unfortunate shareholders have got nothing out of its activities, whatever other benefits may have been derived. Senator O Buachalla says that one service a week is not enough. That is true, but we could not run a more frequent service. We found it very hard to get coal, and, as a result, found it very difficult to provide even one service during the last five or six years.

If we get coal plentifully, we will give as good a service as we possibly can. We are interested in giving the best possible service to the people of Aran, and we will do our best in that regard. The Bill empowers the Minister to take away the service from us and to give it to Córas Iompair Éireann, if we cannot run it properly. If we are not running it properly, we will be only too glad to have it taken away from us for the sake of the people.

An Cathaoirleach

Does the Minister wish to say anything?

Mr. Lemass

I have nothing to say arising out of the observations of the Senators who have spoken, except to make it clear that, so far as the Government is concerned, this is the last word in the matter of the provision of the steamer service to the Aran Islands. If there is a need for such a ferry service, as Senator O Buachalla has suggested, I assume it could be provided on a commercial basis by Galway residents. There are, of course, occasional services by small boats at present, but I think the subsidisation of this service by steamer on a weekly basis at present, and on a bi-weekly basis, as the fuel situation improves, is the limit of the extent to which it is reasonable to ask the general body of taxpayers of the country to come to the relief of this problem. While the Government would be glad to see, and ordinarily would be prepared to facilitate, extension of the service, or have some new facility of that kind for the residents on the island, it does not propose to ask the taxpayers to contribute any greater subsidy than this Bill contemplates.

Question put and agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach

Next Stage?

Mr. Hayes

No objection to taking it to-day.

Agreed to take Committee Stage now.

The Seanad went into Committee on the Bill.

Section 1 agreed to.

Question proposed: "That Section 2 stand part of the Bill."

Mr. Hayes

I did not intervene on the Second Stage. I thought there was complete unity on this Bill, and I agree with the Senators who spoke about the necessity of maintaining communication between Galway and Aran Islands, but I would like to suggest that the principle suggested by the Minister is not sound in all our circumstances. After all, there are people living on islands off the coast, and most of these islands, with the exception of the Aran Islands, are gradually being depopulated. I gathered from Senator O Buachalla that the population of the Aran Islands is not going down. Is that correct?

Liam O Buachalla

No.

Mr. Hayes

I am afraid the situation is not so good on the other islands. The Blasket, for example, is almost gone as an inhabited place, and it does happen that on account of our situation, and on account of our history, these people have particular value to us with regard to the Irish language, and other matters connected with the Irish language. That being so, we cannot regard the connection between the mainland and Aran as entirely a commercial proposition. Senator O Buachalla spoke of the assistance given by the Minister. That assistance has always been necessary.

Mr. O'Dea

That is right.

Mr. Hayes

That assistance was given by both Governments. I think we cannot afford on the one hand to spend a considerable amount of money teaching Irish in schools and encouraging the use of Irish, and yet place transport between the mainland and the Aran Islands entirely on a commercial basis. That is the position, I think, which cannot be taken up. In fact, in this particular Bill, in spite of the Minister's enunciation of the principle, that attitude is not taken up.

It may be necessary to subsidise transport to a particular place. The alternative is to take people off the islands altogether because, if there is no communication between the islands and the mainland, the people will not live there and there are many directions, perhaps, in which transport could get nearer to a commercial basis than this. But that is a matter which the Minister will have to consider in regard to questions of Irish, tourists, and so on.

I agree that the subsidy must be given, and I join with the Minister in hoping that it may be the last word, but it is not that, and I would like to prophesy that the Minister or his successor in office will have to continue the subsidy. We cannot look upon an island like the island of Aran entirely as a commercial proposition, and where transport is something that must be regarded as being on a purely commercial basis.

Mr. Lemass

I think that Senator Hayes has misunderstood the purport of my remarks. I agree that the maintenance of a steamer service is necessary. We are proposing to take power to continue the subsidy, the full subsidy for that purpose. I do not suggest that this steamer service should be carried on entirely on a commercial basis. I was referring to the public suggestion that there should be other services operated by other boats. If there are to be other services, they would have to be furnished without Government subsidy, but the intention of this Bill is to maintain an ordinary steamer service.

Mr. Hayes

That puts the matter on a different basis. We are in agreement with the Minister. To enter into a further discussion of details requires a local knowledge which I have not got at the present moment.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 3 to 7, inclusive, put and agreed to.

Title agreed to.

Bill reported without amendment.

An Cathaoirleach

Next stage?

Liam O Buachalla

Now.

Agreed to take Fourth and Fifth Stages now.

Question—"That the Bill be received for final consideration"—put and agreed to.

Question—"That the Bill do now pass"—put and agreed to.

Ordered: That the Bill be returned to the Dáil.