Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 19 Dec 1951

Vol. 40 No. 6

Grain Storage (Loans) Bill, 1951 ( Certified Money Bill )— Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for Local Government (Mr. Smith)

The purpose of this Bill is indicated by its Long Title—"An Act to provide for the grant of loans for the provision and equipment of storage for grain." The storage difficulties which it is hoped to overcome by the Bill are largely a war-time and post-war development. In pre-war years our native wheat crop was small and foreign grains were usually available in smaller cargoes than at present. These conditions no longer obtain to-day and we are faced with the necessity of handling and storing large quantities of native and foreign grains. The resultant difficulties are particularly evident in the case of wheat, and, in view of the importance of this crop as a bread-grain, it is intended to concentrate in the first instance on the provision of additional wheat storage. In the case of Irish wheat adequate drying facilities are of equal importance as storage and I wish to make it clear that loans will be made available under the Bill for the installation of grain drying facilities, whether in old or new stores.

A country-wide survey of grain storage which was carried out by the milling inspectorate of the Department of Agriculture showed that the total capacity of all grain stores available for wheat, barley, maize, oats, etc., was approximately 615,000 tons. The maximum accommodation available for wheat was 380,000 tons but it is necessary to treat this figure with a certain amount of caution as—with the exception of the flour mills—no grain store is always and exclusively reserved for wheat. Furthermore, many of the premises in question are entirely unsuitable and uneconomic for the storage of wheat, particularly Irish wheat, the drying of which is essentially a part of the flour-milling process and as such should be under the direct control of the flour millers. Our present enforced use of these outside grain stores has led in some cases to the loss of Irish wheat through mishandling and in practically all cases to the inflation of milling costs and of the flour subsidy. We should aim therefore at the expansion of our grade A wheat storage. Grade A storage might be defined as storage which in the case of the flour mills is economically and mechanically linked with the milling plant and, in the case of portal silos, storage which is economically linked with ocean cargo discharge. Even on the most favourable assumptions, our grade A wheat storage does not exceed 205,000 tons as compared with an annual wheat user of 450,000 tons and maximum wheat stocks of 250,000 tons. In order to handle without difficulty our maximum current wheat stocks, to have an adequate margin for safety and to accumulate a much needed reserve of imported wheat, we would require grade A storage amounting to 450,000 tons. As we already have 205,000 tons and as there are over 40,000 tons under construction our net deficiency of grade A wheat storage can be put at 200,000 tons.

It is recognised that with current inflated building costs the erection of this additional grade A storage entirely out of their own resources would impose a heavy burden on flour millers and other interested concerns. It has, therefore, been decided to come to the assistance of private enterprises by granting loans for the erection and equipment of grain stores. The loans will cover a very substantial portion of the capital costs in each case and will be granted on the most favourable terms possible both as regards rate of interest and period of repayment. If it is found in the light of experience that the amount now provided, £2,500,000, is inadequate, it will be necessary to increase the provision in an amending Bill.

I wish to say a special word in regard to the flour mills. Although they have an important part to play in the wheat storage programme, it is disturbing to find that 25 of the 36 mills have storage capacity for less than 50 per cent. of their licensed milling quotas. The flour and bread inquiry recommended that millers should be required to provide storage up to 50 per cent. of their quotas and I hope that they will take advantage of the generous facilities now offered to do so. Otherwise, the Government will be forced to consider other methods of ensuring that the mills play their part in closing the storage gap.

The extension of portal grain silos is not being overlooked. We are at present in negotiation with the owners of the Dublin portal silo for the erection of a 50,000-ton silo and the position in the other ports is also being reviewed.

In view of the purpose of the Bill, I am confident that it will obtain the approval of the House.

Mr. Baxter

There is not much to be said on this measure except to welcome it. It is perhaps a somewhat belated effort to do something that should have been done in the country's interests long ago. The building of granaries is not new. Granaries were operated in ancient Egypt thousands of years ago.

We are deciding now to facilitate those who are prepared to build grain storage accommodation here. I have read the debate in the other House and I was endeavouring to extract from that debate how much of the influence behind this measure is dictated out of consideration for conditions of emergency which might develop at some later stage and how much is the Government influenced by the fact that we have not sufficient storage for grain. Grain has been very badly handled and very badly treated in the past and there was considerable loss as a result of which the consumers inevitably had to pay.

An important consideration in relation to this particular matter is the erection of granaries at the least vulnerable spots in the country. If we are storing against emergency conditions that is a very important point. It is important that we should not store the greatest quantity of our food or bread grains at points where they might be most easily destroyed. Possibly, that decision might make storage more expensive but it would be a wiser course in the long run from the point of view of securing our food supplies.

The Minister says that if the millers are not prepared to do what the Government expects of them, the Government will itself consider taking steps to ensure that the present gap is closed. Would the Minister give us some indication of what he has in mind in that respect? We cannot buy grain unless we have storage accommodation in which to keep it. An important problem facing those who will store the grain is the fact that a much greater outlay of capital will be required. There is a certain financial problem confronting the people whom we expect to erect these silos and storehouses throughout the country. It may very well be supposed that the milling industry, which is reputed to be a very wealthy one, would have no difficulty in stocking up to the full capacity of their storehouses. That may not be true of all of them. What will happen in the case where it is not true? I do not hold any brief for these people, since I believe they are quite capable of looking after their own interests. At the same time, I think that consideration cannot be absent from the mind of the Minister when he is discussing whatever measures may be necessary for the Government to take in order to ensure that the millers will make their contribution towards the erecting of storage accommodation to act as a safeguard and an insurance against difficulties in any future emergency.

In relation to the growing of wheat, it is quite clear that wheat growing can only be effected by the utilisation of mechanical equipment. Farmers are now discovering that this is absolutely essential to wheat growing. We can only secure a reasonable wheat acreage —and there are some doubts about our capacity in that respect—provided our farmers are prepared to harvest their grain mechanically despite the vagaries of the climate. If large quantities of grain are taken from a farm, and the grain is not in very good condition, and if facilities are not immediately available to dry this grain before it is stored, both the farmer and the country will lose.

I do not know how far this plan takes account of those areas where the greatest acreage of wheat can be grown. That is a matter to which attention must be given. I do not know how far the problem of storage accommodation for barley and oats sold off the farm will be met under this Bill. In some areas coarse grains provide a problem of considerable dimensions in some years while in other years they provide no problem at all. In years of abundance we ought to be able to provide against periods of shortage. It is astonishing how the one follows the other with remarkable regularity. On occasions in the past grain growers have been compelled because of lack of storage to market their crop at prices far below its value. Growers should not be placed in that position. It may be beyond their competence to provide for a situation like that. In the last analysis, if they are not able to help themselves the community will have to provide a service.

I take it that consideration will be given to that aspect of the problem. Generally, the country will welcome this measure. It is one which should have been introduced long ago. It will give us additional security in the future and I think it will help to encourage grain growing in many areas where they are to-day hesitant of entering into that particular branch of agriculture because of the difficulties it involves for the farmers in the autumn season.

Professor Fearon

This is a very important measure indeed. It has important implications and I would be grateful if the Minister would tell us a little bit more in relation to the possible consequences of this proposal. Our wheat requirement is between 400,000 and 500,000 tons in the year. Of that, we produce about half ourselves and we are compelled to import the other half. The proposed extensions mean that, first of all, the Dublin silo capacity will be increased from 35,000 tons to about 50,000 plus. Then we have Cork where there are two silos of 10,000 tons which will be increased to double that amount. In Limerick the potential capacity is 35,000 tons and in Waterford 17,000 tons. That gives us a total of 200,000 tons of wheat. That means to say that we have a six months' supply of grain stored in four towns in our Republic. Now, as already indicated by Senator Baxter, there is a certain risk there. It means that Dublin will have, possibly, 50,000 tons of a fairly combustible material stored in a fairly densely populated area.

The first thing which I really think the Minister ought to assure us about is that not only is this capacity being developed for collecting and storing grain, but that it should be balanced by an equally effective capacity for getting the grain out and rapidly distributed through the country. I think that the idea of increased storage is excellent. I would feel happy if the outflow of the grain were as efficient as the inflow, and if it could be distributed as quickly as it can be stored to the various mills. We will require our own transport fleet for that distribution, and I think consideration ought to be given to the establishment of such a fleet. That, I think, should be part of the requirements in connection with this Bill. We have to consider the outflow as against the inflow. There is another point on which I certainly feel I agree with the Minister, and it is that the flour mills should be encouraged to store. In fact, I would be inclined to say that we should make them store. That would also mean that steps would have to be taken for the proper dispersion of the grain.

Another question which arose long ago was that our principal enemy was the submarine and the blockade. Now, two new types of enemy have appeared, the air bomb and the saboteur. Therefore, we shall have to take steps to protect ourselves against the terrible disaster that might rob us of a lot of this stored material. In view of that possible risk, steps should, I think, be taken to encourage the mills to make arrangements for storing a reasonable quantity of grain in the vicinity of the mills.

Another matter that arises in connection with this storage is that more flour should be stored in this country. Flour improves as we know in storage. It matures. We can use the flour in storage as a substitute for flour that has chemicals added to it. I do not like chemically treated flour. I see no other way out at the present time of the difficulties that may arise in the future. Therefore, I think we should have more effective flour storage so as to make it easier to dispense with the chemical treatment of flour.

The last thing that was touched on by the Minister was equally important, the question of our Irish grain. For years I have listened to many advocates of Irish wheat growing. I have never really heard the difficulties put forward to the utilisation of Irish grain —its high moisture content—which is round about 21 per cent. That is to be brought down now to 15 per cent. for storage. In that connection, I think our arrangements for local grain drying appear to be very badly in need of some kind of co-ordination. I imagine that some of these arrangements are of a makeshift character. It is desirable, I think, that something should be done in that direction, so that the quality of the grain will not suffer. I wonder would it be possible to incorporate an extensive grain-drying scheme with grain storage. In other words, I would ask the Minister to consider linking up with grain storage, with grain transport and encouragement by mills to do more storing themselves so as to ensure efficient distribution, some development for local drying facilities. I heartily welcome the Bill. I feel that it is another very important wall in our defence against possible danger. There is nothing, of course, more important than to maintain the food supplies for the people. We must preserve our supplies of flour and bread. No matter how people may talk about liquid diets, these ought to be preserved at all cost.

Mr. O'Callaghan

The object of this Bill is stated to be to provide for the grant of loans for the provision and equipment of storage for grain. It does not say anything about drying facilities for grain which, I think, are just as important as storage. Some farmers at the present time are using small drying plants on their farms. That is necessary because of the more extended use of combines. We all know that a good deal of work is now done by the combines. That has been so in the last year or two. Therefore, more drying facilities should be available. The Bill, as well as providing for storage, should also make provision for drying facilities. That is where the trouble begins. If the grain has to be kept in bags for one, two or three days or perhaps longer, a great deal of damage may be done to it before it reaches the mill. I think that loans ought to be available to farmers not only in regard to storage but for the provision of drying facilities. I understand that in England, where the combines are being used extensively, grain will not be accepted from a farmer unless it has been put through one of these dryers.

The Minister gave some very big figures in the course of his opening statement. He talked in millions. I would prefer if small loans were made available to every farmer who is prepared to rise to the occasion with regard to the provision of extra storage and drying facilities. We all remember that 1946 was a very wet year. In that year, a lot of grain was dried by the beet factories, but since then, I understand, no grain has been dried by them. I think it would be a very good idea if arrangements could be made with the beet factories for the drying of grain. They have the drying facilities, and the factories are practically idle at the time that farmers would need the use of these facilities. It would be a good thing, in my opinion, if the beet factories could be induced to afford these facilities to farmers. Some farmers at the present time take their grain to the mills, get it dried there and take it home again. I am afraid that the means employed by the farmers themselves for the drying of grain are not very effective at times. I suggest to the Minister that he should have a leaflet issued in connection with the storage and drying of grain on farms. That would be very opportune at the present time when a more extensive use is being made of the combines.

Mr. P.F. O'Reilly

Under Section 5 of the Bill the Minister is taking very wide powers in regard to the granting of applications for loans, the terms on which he may make moneys available, the conditions that he may impose, the manner in which the repayment of interest is to be made, and as to the security that may be asked from a borrower. I think that the House should be given more information as to the terms and conditions which the Minister may impose upon an applicant for a loan, as to the rate of interest charged to borrowers, and as to how the moneys borrowed will be repaid. These are matters on which we would like to hear more from the Minister. I am sure he has already considered these matters, and, therefore, I think he should be able to give us this information.

Pádraig Aghas

Níl morán agam le rá ar an mBille seo, ach bamhaith liom a chur in iúl don Aire go bhfuil scaptha anso agus ansúd ar fud na tíre muilte beaga a thóg daoine dóibh féin, ar a gcostas féin, agus is mór an mhaitheas atá á déanamh acu san sna ceantair éagsúla. Chítear dóibh áfach anois go mbeadh ar a gcumas i bhfad níos mó maitheasa a dhéanamh dá mbeadh deis acu ar an arbhar a chur i stóir in a gceantar féin. Tuigeann siad nach féidir tabhairt fé sin a dhéanamh gan cabhair ón Rialtas, gan iasacht d'fháil ón Rialtas. Ni deontas a theastaíonn uathu ach iasacht. Is mór an mhaitheas a thiocfadh as sin. Tá na feirmeoirl ag éileamh ruda eile. Le cupla bliain, tá a lán caillte acu mar gheall ar thaise agus ba mhaith leó arbhar a choimeád gan taise. Dá bhfaighidís deontas cun stóir mar sin a thógaint chun an coirce a thiormú agus a choimeád, bheadh an scéal i gceart acu. Dá bhfaigheadh na muilleoirí beaga so cabhair ón Rialtas bheidís sásta stóir a thógaint ina bhféadfaidís arbhar a choimeád do na feirmeoirí agus a thiormú dóibh iontu dá mba ghá é.

I do not wish to say very much on this question. I know the great millers will not be neglected under this Bill, but there are throughout the country small millers who are running mills at their own expense, and it would be a great convenience to the people surrounding them if they had the facilities for storing and drying grain. These millers are not in a position to erect these small stores with their own capital. If they were able to get a loan, not a grant, to erect these stores, they would be able to serve the community around them still further. Farmers, especially in the West of Ireland, are suffering severe losses from damp. Local stores in which grain could be stored locally would be of great advantage to them.

Mr. Commons

The main object of this Bill, I understand, is to provide storage for wheat because wheat, of course, is the first line of defence, being the main grain for our bread supply. Senator O'Callaghan has said something to which the Minister should pay some attention and it is a point I intended raising myself in connection with the drying of wheat before it is stored. It is not my intention to give the Minister a lecture on agriculture. We know well that the system of cutting wheat at the present time has changed greatly from that of 20 years ago, when the old reaper and binder cut the corn and tied it up. It was then left for three or four days, sometimes a week, sometimes even a month. Then it found its way into the threshing machine and as it left the threshing machine it was in a better condition than when it leaves the harvester combine which is so familiar on the farmer's field at the present time.

It is quite impossible, as we all know, for any farmer, particularly a farmer with a large acreage, to get his crop of wheat all ripe at the same time. When a farmer sets out to sow wheat it must be taken into consideration that if he waits to get it all ripe for cutting at the same time he will certainly lose some of it because we cannot cut in this country under the same conditions as in Canada where they get the sun one day after another. Therefore, the farmer must get his harvester combine going before the crop is fully ripe. That means it goes into the sack or into the bag from the harvester combine when it is in no condition to go into storage. It must be dried or else it will deteriorate. Although the supply of grain storage is very necessary for the people of this country, I would like, if the Minister has not some scheme in his mind already, to provide some scheme of grain drying, whether that be attached to the grain storage buildings, the erection of which will be helped by the money provided in this Bill or whether it would be possible to provide a small drying plant to the farmers to use on their own farms. Personally, I would like to see the grain drying apparatus attached to the grain storage buildings provided for under this Bill. On the other hand, the farmer who may find it impossible to get his wheat off his hands for a few days would find it very valuable if he could get some way of drying immediately after it was cut and threshed.

Another point I would like to raise in regard to storage is the idea of spreading of the buildings throughout the country. The Senator who mentioned this point has said something with which I agree. We all know that the target of every bomb will be, first of all, a munition factory and, secondly, a grain store. If the grain stores we intend to erect under this measure could be spread out as far as possible throughout the country that would be a very wise move. We must, of course, take into consideration the different grain-growing areas in this country. You never will be able to induce those in the midland counties to produce the same quantities of grain as are produced in some of the other counties. We know that the areas which, for over 100 or 200 years, have been devoted almost entirely to the rearing and producing of beef will be very slow to turn to the producing of wheat, whereas tillage farmers of the South will continue to carry on the same type of husbandry as their fathers and forefathers. The point I want to make is that in the grain belt of this country there should be erected the stores that we intend to erect so that they would be placed as conveniently as possible to the farmers.

I am very glad to see this Bill introduced but I would like finally if the Minister would give us some idea if there is anything to be done in regard to grain drying before the grain finds its way to storage.

Mr. S.T. Ruane

I would like to endorse the suggestion made by Senator Commons about the desirability of not confining storage to three, four or five places throughout the country. To my own knowledge, in Mayo and Galway, right along the quays you have derelict stores, magnificent stone buildings, which have become a bit knocked about through not being used for years. I do believe that in Galway, Ballina, Westport, Newport and even Killala there are stone buildings, disused stores, which could, with certainly less cost than it would take to erect a new building, be put into a state fit for the storage of wheat. I also believe that the addition of drying plant would not be insuperable nor would it be expensive.

Mr. McGee

I would like to endorse Senator O'Callaghan's remarks in regard to the provision of drying facilities. I have been engaged in it; for very nearly 20 years we had our own private drying apparatus which was not at all expensive. It would be a very great help to the farmers to know that they can have expert advice on this equipment, and the prospect need not frighten the State. I daresay one or two Ministers saw my own temporary affair working. I think that the millers who are conveying the wheat do not have sufficient drying capacity for all the wheat that they buy, and I think that this is a mistake. I think some ten or 15 years ago that before a licence was issued there was a condition that stores should be equipped with drying facilities. It would be well to emphasise that it would be a great advantage to the State to have a three-year supply of wheat on hands. It would be a safe and sure method and it would not be beyond the capacity of the country.

If we are not growing all the wheat we desire or all the wheat we attempted to grow in the past, there are reasons for it. We have been growing something else instead. If we have sufficient storage, we would be able to import more wheat. Sufficient drying equipment should also be attached to the stores and even parochial stores should be made available and drying equipment should be attached to them. Parish stores at the moment lack funds. Farmers producing thousands of barrels of grain should have stores in parochial areas to facilitate them.

As regards the haulage facilities which we have at present, I would prefer to see the farmers delivering the wheat themselves to the mills rather than that the mills should send for it to the farmers.

This is an opportunity of affording facilities to the farmer that have been very rare up to now and that are urgently needed.

Seán Ua Guilidhe

I am rather interested in what Senator McGee said, and I am in agreement with him. During the last season, in West Waterford particularly, grain has had to be taken to the City of Cork—40 miles away—to be dried. Quite a lot of corn was lost this season as a result. It was returned to the farmers who were told that they could feed it to the cattle. I understand that some combines are equipped with drying apparatus. I wonder if that is so?

Mr. McGee

I do not think so, but it might be possible to have drying apparatus on the farm.

Seán Ua Guilidhe

The difficulty arises from the fact that the corn is bagged from the combine. Corn was cut in our part of the country this season in rather inclement weather. The result was that after 24 hours in the bag it began to go wrong.

Mr. McGee

That is true.

Seán Ua Guilidhe

If there was any possibility of partially drying it on the spot, the corn could be transported 30 or 40 miles without deteriorating and then the drying proper should start.

Mr. Teehan

I believe that people who have stores in the course of erection should not be excluded from financial help. Quite a number of enterprising storekeepers have been adding to their premises during the past couple of years. I feel that it would be a great hardship on them now that there is money available at a lower rate of interest, if they were excluded at this stage. That is a matter which could be arranged between the Department and the storekeeper concerned. I quite agree with the Bill. I hope the country as a whole will get its fair share of the loans and that they will not be gobbled up by the big concerns.

Mr. Smith

I am very glad that this Bill has been as well received here as it was in the Dáil. I might say that I am going as far as agreeing with those who have suggested that this measure might, with advantage, have been introduced years ago. I suppose in this matter, as in many others, the passage of time is necessary before we reach a particular stage. In so far as the wheat crop is concerned, it is no harm to suggest that we spent quite a number of years debating the subject from a different angle altogether. We were sceptical about the wisdom of growing the crop here at all because of its moisture content and I wonder how our proposal to make money available by way of loan for the provision of drying plants and the provision of proper storage facilities would have been received 15 or 20 years ago? However, we have to move along in slow stages. We have now reached the point when, as I say, a measure of this nature is accepted by everybody as one which is urgent and desirable. It is a good thing that we are all in agreement at this stage as to our aim in this matter, a matter which is of vital concern to each and every one of us. I will now examine the wisdom or otherwise of creating storage facilities at the most vulnerable points. I am quite sure that the Department and the Minister who is immediately responsible will give adequate thought to the danger to which Senators have referred. After all, I suppose some risks have to be taken and no matter how much one tries to provide against danger one must accept the position ultimately that some risks must be taken. I am in full accord with those who say that this question should be examined from that angle. My remarks in that connection merely suggest that, not only in regard to grain storage, but in regard to a number of other precautions which might be desirable from the point of view of long distance safety, we might occasion burdens that we could not afford at the moment by providing them. That point must be kept in mind when this matter is being discussed.

Some Senators invited me to comment on the references they made in the course of their speeches to the methods to be employed to induce millers to provide grain storage and adequate drying plant. I do not see any reason why I should delve into this particular matter. It will be apparent to the Senators that millers operate under licences, and licences are valuable documents. They are given to some 36 concerns, or thereabouts, which convert wheat into flour. I am sure that they make it a paying concern. It would not be fair for a Government to say to these concerns: "Here is the licence, but from now on you will only get this licence on condition that you do so-and-so."

While some of the concerns may be in a financial position to comply with demands and may be able to get the credit facilities, others may say: "You are imposing a very great hardship on me. I cannot, in fact, secure the necessary credit to do so. You are employing this indirect means to drive me out of business." It is not my responsibility to ask myself what methods I would apply. If it were a responsibility of mine, I would naturally say, assuming that I introduced a Bill which will become an Act: "Provided that it can be made available to those people on reasonable terms and condition." I will come to the point raised by Senator O'Reilly later.

Assuming that I was able to do that, I would then be quite justified in coming along to these firms or individuals and saying: "I am giving you a licence. I am also making available money to enable you to provide certain facilities and the condition from now on is attached to that licence that you must provide within a reasonable space of time the facilities about which we have been talking here."

Senator O'Reilly asked what are these conditions? I do not really know. The section to which the Senator referred, Section 5, gives to the Minister for Agriculture and to his colleague, the Minister for Finance, the right to stipulate the conditions that may be attached when money is made available. Senator O'Reilly as a lawyer of experience must realise that if a loan is being made available, say for the purpose of the erection of a house, the person or the institution making that loan available would like to have some security, perhaps in the form of the house itself. If I were asked to say what the security would be in regard to this measure, I would say that the miller or the merchant who would be seeking a loan under this Bill when it becomes an Act, should be at least prepared to make available the premises that he was erecting or improving for the purpose of securing the loan advanced through the machinery of this measure.

So far as the interest rates that might be charged are concerned, I do not see how you could very easily set these out in the Bill. Interest rates have not changed a great deal in recent years but they do change from time to time. All I can say on that matter is that the terms on which the money will be made available will be very reasonable and that there will be no grounds for any complaint on that head.

Senator O'Callaghan, Senator Commons and some other Senators raised the question of storage and drying facilities which might be provided in a smaller way for people other than millers. I think that there is no reason why such people, if the facilities at present available are found to be insufficient, could not take advantage of the provisions of this measure. If it is a question of erecting accommodation, farmers, of course, can take advantage of the farm buildings scheme. I admit that that is not very generous now. Because the cost of building has gone up so much, it could not be said to be as generous as one would like to see it. Still, it is there and perhaps it will improve as time passes. Just as the steps we are taking to-day are designed to improve the facilities for grain storage, so, too, perhaps the future may provide more adequate facilities and greater encouragement for the type of people Senators have in mind.

Question put and agreed to.

Agreed, to take the remaining stages now.

Section 1 agreed to.

SECTION 2.

Question proposed: "That Section 2 stand part of the Bill."

Mr. Baxter

Will the Minister say whether it is quite clear under this section that a farmer or a group of farmers will be in a position of themselves to make application for portion of these moneys to provide storage and drying equipment or drying equipment alone?

Mr. Smith

What does the Senator mean by "a group of farmers"?

Mr. Baxter

A co-operative society or one farmer. Take a farmer in County Louth, for instance, or in an area in a county where tillage farming is carried on on a large scale. Will it be within the competence of one person there, who may not be regarded technically as one who intends to provide this equipment or this storage and equipment, purely and solely for the purpose of drying wheat, and who wants to make it available for other crops to put them in a condition in which they can be stored, to apply for a loan?

Mr. Smith

It will be available to a man who intends to become a grain merchant. If I propose to establish such a building, who can prove that I am not going to become a grain merchant?

Mr. Douglas

It will be available to co-operative societies?

Mr. Smith

Yes.

Mr. Douglas

In that connection, although I think this point would arise more strictly on the Title, do I take it that the Minister considers that the phrase "provision and equipment of storage for grain" might include drying or something else necessary in order that grain could be stored?

Mr. Smith

Yes.

Mr. Douglas

If it means that, it covers the principal point.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 3 to 9, inclusive, and the Title, agreed to.

Bill reported without recommendation, received for final consideration, and ordered to be returned to the Dáil.