Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 25 Feb 1953

Vol. 41 No. 6

Sir Patrick Dun's Hospital Bill, 1953. - Local Loans Fund (Amendment) Bill, 1953—Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for Finance (Mr. MacEntee)

The purpose of this Bill is twofold. First it proposes to extend from £50,000,000 to £70,000,000 the limit of advances which may be made from the Local Loans Fund and it proposes to provide for the writing off of sums amounting to a little over £5,000 of certain advances already made from that fund. The need to increase the existing over-riding limit of advances arises from the fact that over £48,000,000 has already been advanced from the fund and as the rate of advances is something over £10,000,000 per annum it is clear that in the almost immediate future the statutory limit would be reached.

So far as the sums to be written off are concerned, some of these loans go as far back as 50 years and some as far as 30 years; indeed, so far as my recollection goes, the most recent of them was made 24 years ago. The Commissioners of Public Works who manage the fund are satisfied that there is no possibility of recovering any of the remanet principal or the arrears of interest which have accrued and they accordingly recommend that the loans should be written off. They cannot, however, be written off simpliciter since the Local Loans Act of 1935 provides that no advances may be written off except with statutory authority. Accordingly it is proposed in Section 2 of the Bill to give statutory authority for the writing off of these loans.

Mr. O'Donnell

What is the explanation of the writing off of these sums? It is true that they are merely a matter of £5,000 odd which is not very large but the principle involved is serious. It seems to me as if somebody in the Civil Service at some period forgot to collect these amounts because I see the name of William Woods, Auditor, signed in connection with this matter, the date of February 1st, 1937. That is 16 years ago. It does seem extraordinary that we should now be writing off those amounts. When we are dealing with public moneys what authority have we to wipe it out at all?

I see that money was loaned to the Harbour Commissioners at Buncrana many years ago and it would seem as if somebody has slipped up in not collecting these moneys. I would like to have some information on that matter. There may have been questions of a real bad debt but in business an effort is made to recover bad debts through examination in the courts, and I would like to know if the State acts in a like manner.

Mr. MacEntee

It is not usual in matters of this sort to discuss the position of private individuals but I feel that I am at liberty to do so in this instance in view of the fact that it is the Land Commission which is indirectly responsible. The amount of this loan was £400. The advance was made under the Land Improvement Act in 1913 to the gentleman whose name has been mentioned for the improvement of his farmhouse on a holding of 348 acres 2 roods and 2 perches in Offaly which he held under a fee-farm grant. The loan was charged on the land and the land eventually became vested in the Land Commission in the year 1937. The redemption value of the land at that time was £206. Where lands charged with a loan under the Land Improvement or Local Loans Acts become the subject of proceedings for land purchase the amount of the loan is chargeable against the purchase price, but if that is not sufficient to meet the loan charges, then it is not possible to recover it and accordingly it ceases to be proper to regard it as an asset of the fund. It will be seen, therefore, that the need to write down in this case is not due to any dereliction of duty on the part of any civil servant.

Mr. O'Donnell

I did not mean that it was but I merely asked the Minister for an explanation of the situation.

Question put and agreed to.

Agreed to take the remaining stages now.