Would I be in order, before the business of the Seanad is ordered, in raising two points of order concerning procedure? I must crave the indulgence of the House in this matter, as I am not familiar with its practice, but the points I wish to raise concern procedure.
Seanad Procedure.
Has any notice been given to the Cathaoirleach about these points?
No, there has not.
It is usual to do so.
As it is a matter of complaint, I understand that under the Standing Orders the matter may be raised before taking the orders of the day.
It is usual for a Senator who wants to raise a point of order at the opening of business to give private notice to the Cathaoirleach. That, of course, is not necessary, but it is usually done.
Perhaps we could hear from Senator Hayes the orders of the day and go on from there.
I understood that the business was the Alginate Industries Bill, which is a Money Bill, and then the resumption of the debate on the Senator's motion. There is no other business.
As the Minister dealing with the Bill has not yet arrived, we might go on with the motion and deal with the Bill later. We can hear the point of order but need not pass judgment on it.
The first point of order concerns the presence of the Minister for External Affairs and his officials in connection with my motion. I should have raised the point yesterday if I had been familiar with the procedure of the House, but, on consulting the rulings and precedents, I find that "a motion by a Senator on a matter coming within the responsibility of a Minister should not be made in the absence of the Minister concerned or his Parliamentary Secretary." What I should like to know is: do you rule that the Minister for External Affairs is the relevant Minister, because, to my mind, this motion concerns purely Irish affairs and is not concerned with external affairs at all?
My second point is that I thought undue latitude was given in the matter of relevance to Senator Sheehy Skeffington.
Oh, now!
Will you rule then, Sir, on the first point?
It seems to me that, with Cabinet collective responsibility, it is the right of the Taoiseach to delegate authority to any colleague of his to represent him here.
On a previous occasion—the Republic of Ireland Bill —the Taoiseach was present for part of the time and the Minister for External Affairs for the rest of the time, which, I think, is a precedent in this matter.
There is always power to deputise on the part of one Minister for another. The comment I would make on the other point which the Senator was attempting to raise is that it is challenging the conduct of the Chair. I think it is unbecoming.