I move amendment No. 14:
To add to the section the following new subsection:
"( ) That an tÚdarás send annually to the principals of secondary schools such information as may be deemed necessary and should include inter alia the state of overcrowding in the various faculties and the numbers rejected in that year."
This amendment was put down to enable the principals of secondary schools to have some information as to conditions in the various institutions of higher education, especially overcrowding or lack of overcrowding in the various faculties and disciplines.
Senator Kelly's amendment No. 8 has a somewhat similar intent. I have left out of it the two words "publishing" and "forecasts" which were discussed at length on amendment No. 8. The Minister did not feel that "publishing" would be correct and the ability to forecast was not something that he would like to accept.
I want to refer to the words "principals of secondary schools". If this amendment is passed and if it is agreed that the Higher Education Authority should substitute "supply of the information" that is suggested in this amendment the proper people to send this information to would be the principals of the secondary schools.
It is evident to everybody here that the principal of a secondary school may not necessarily be the principal teacher. I am assuming, in this amendment, that when the principals of secondary schools get the information that I am seeking here they will hand it over to the principal teacher of that school.
The principle behind this amendment is that there should be available through the principals or the principal teachers of secondary schools such information as will enable pupils of secondary schools, and maybe their parents, to have some guidance as to what they should do in the post-secondary years.
It is true that some pupils will have made up their minds what career they will follow when they leave secondary school, but there will be quite a large number who will not have made up their minds, and either the pupil or their parents will seek guidance from the principal teacher or principal of the secondary school. The information I suggest, which should be given through the principals down to the principal teacher of secondary schools, should guide them as to which faculty the pupil should enter or, if necessary, guide them to a different institution. Take, for instance, people living in the midlands who find that in Dublin there is overcrowding in the profession they wish to follow. The Authority could say to them, not necessarily direct them, that another institution of higher education somewhere else in the country may have vacancies.
A choice of subjects for a pupil has to be determined in the penultimate year. By penultimate year I mean the fifth and sixth year in a secondary school. After the fourth year they have to make a decision and drop some subjects because on entering the fifth year they have to determine their course. In that year information such as I am seeking here, which should be provided to the principals or principal teachers of secondary schools, would be of some advantage.
Again, I repeat that the pupil or the parents may have to make up their minds as to which course they will follow after leaving the secondary school. Quite a large number, however, would like some direction from their teacher.
I have worded this amendment carefully and have not included the word "forecast". I have only said that information should be given; I do not suggest for a moment that any forecast should be given. I also included the phrase "as may be deemed necessary". In other words, I do not intend that all the information at the disposal of the Higher Education Authority should be given to the principals of the secondary schools, but only that which pertains to the guidance of pupils after leaving secondary schools.
It appears to me to be a reasonable amendment. It is asking An tÚdarás to supply some information in a particular year. It would then be up to the principals or principal teachers of secondary schools to impart that information to the pupils or their parents so that it may be a guide-line as to what subjects they will take up during their last two years at that school and especially what they intend doing when they leave secondary school.
The Minister, in replying to Senator Kelly's amendment No. 8, mentioned the question of career guidance agencies. I do not think this completely covers the situation. Career guidance, as I know it, explains what a career really means and what subjects would be necessary for a particular career. It means that when a pupil has made his decision as to what career he might take up, career guidance will explain to him what it entails; but it does not tell him anything about the availability of places in the institutions of higher education. The Higher Education Authority, in my opinion, should be the body which would co-ordinate the information that would be available from the institutions of higher education, especially in regard to the placing of pupils in the various institutions or in special faculties in any particular institution.
I should like the Minister to consider this because it is a reasonable amendment and non-contentious. The relationship between the Higher Education Authority and secondary education would be improved by such liaison. The principals of secondary schools may wish to discuss from time to time certain aspects of the curriculum in secondary schools with the Higher Education Authority, and by implication this might also apply here. Because a lot depends upon the trends in education over a period of a few years, overcrowding cannot be forecasted exactly, but certain trends can be forecasted. Therefore, if the principals of the secondary schools decide to consult the Higher Education Authority, the Authority may be able to give information of value regarding the curriculum for the last two years at school. I commend this amendment to the House and I hope it will be considered favourably by the Minister.