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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 31 Mar 1976

Vol. 83 No. 17

Health Contributions (Amendment) Bill, 1976: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Health Contributions Act, 1971, established the principle that contributions towards the cost of services provided under Part IV of the Health Act, 1970, should be paid by persons who have limited eligibility for services under that part of the Act. The explanatory memorandum, which has been circulated with the Bill, defines the groups of person who are required to pay contributions and the services to which they are entitled.

The present level of health contributions, at 26p per week, or £12 a year, were fixed with effect from 1st January, 1975. These are now, therefore, due to be increased, and I propose to fix them at 33p per week, or £15 per annum, effective from 1st April, 1976.

The increase proposed in this Bill takes account of the general increases in costs and incomes since the level of contributions were last debated and agreed in 1974.

When the original Bill was introduced in 1971 the then Minister made it clear that he was introducing the Bill "because of the urgent need to find another source of income besides rates and taxes to finance the heavy and growing burden of health costs". In further comment the Minister said that "the traditional sources for health finance must be supplemented in some other way and preferably in a way which can be shown to be directly related to the services concerned".

The financing problems which faced the health services in 1971 have not diminished. The reverse, unfortunately, is the case.

In the first instance, health service costs are rising rapidly. Health services are labour-intensive by their nature and rapidly increasing levels of pay in recent years have added very appreciably to costs. In addition, the demand and take-up rate for public health services is increasing at a fast rate, while technological and other innovations within the health care system itself have also speeded up the rate of increase of costs.

These and other factors have necessitated a rather rapid increase in health expenditure in recent years. In 1971-2, when health contributions were first introduced, public non-capital expenditure on our health services was £86 million. The Exchequer contribution was of the order of £45 million. In 1976, it is estimated that public non-capital expenditure on health care will rise to £262 million while the Exchequer's contribution will increase to an estimated £242 million. In other words, the Exchequer's contribution to health care expenditure will have risen from 52 per cent to 92 per cent between 1971-2 and 1976.

This year, despite the competing claims of other public services, 18 per cent of non-capital Exchequer expenditure will be devoted to health care. This compares with a figure of 10.5 per cent in 1971. Part of the reason for the increased proportion devoted to health care is of course that the undertaking to remove health charges from the rates is being honoured and has practically been completed. In addition, however, major improvements in our health services have been achieved, something which is demonstrated by the fact that expenditure on health has increased by some 16½ per cent in real terms during the last three years alone.

As a percentage of gross national product, public health expenditure has risen from 4.3 per cent in 1971-2 to about 6 per cent in the current year. In recent years, therefore, not only has public health expenditure been rising rapidly, but it has been rising at a considerably faster rate than the economy as a whole.

All of these statistics show clearly that health costs and health expenditure in our society are rising rapidly. Associated with this reality is the fact that public health expenditure is now funded almost entirely from the Exchequer. Local rates, which as recently as 1972-3 met over 40 per cent of the cost of health services, this year will meet only 1.8 per cent of the cost of these services.

In this situation health contributions constitute, and will continue to constitute, an important source of revenue. Unless our general economic circumstances change to an extraordinary degree we will have to continue to seek revenue from this source.

Having said that health contributions constitute an important element of revenue, I would like to point out, however, that the estimated receipts from this source—£10.2 million in the present year—represent only about 6 per cent of the estimated cost of providing limited eligibility services. It is clear that from the beneficiaries' point of view the new rates of contribution represent a very reasonable bargain in relation to the services which are available to them.

It will be clear from what I have said that health services, together with social welfare costs, impose a very heavy charge on our Exchequer. The combined provision for Exchequer grants in the 1976 non-capital supply services is about £485 million which represents about 36 per cent of the total Exchequer provision contained in the estimates. The present system for financing health and social welfare services is being reviewed by an interdepartmental committee of representatives of the Departments of Health and Social Welfare. This committee have been making good progress and I expect that they will be in a position to submit their report by the summer.

Before concluding my comments on the Bill, I would like to say that I will propose an increase in the present income limits for limited eligibility health services in the near future.

As the House is aware, while there is no income limit for insured manual workers at present, there is an income limit of £2,250 per annum in the case of insured non-manual workers and an income limit of £1,600 per annum in the case of all other adults, except farmers. In the case of farmers, those with farm valuation of £60 or less are in the limited eligibility group.

I had hoped to do away with an anomaly between insured manual workers and all others, by providing free hospital care to all. This has not been possible to date, however, as the House is aware.

The present income limits of £2,250 and £1,600 were fixed in April, 1974, and October, 1971, respectively. They are now due to be increased in pursuance of the normal practice of increasing income limits from time to time, in line with increases in incomes generally.

Unless the existing income limits are increased in the near future a very large number of people who are now entitled to limited eligibility health services will cease to be eligible. Indeed, in the case of insured non-manual female employees a significant number of them will become ineligible from 5th July next unless the present income limit is increased. In all 85,000 people will become ineligible by the end of this year unless the income limits are increased in line with income increases since the present limits were fixed.

I propose to submit to the Houses of the Oireachtas for approval draft regulations which would fix a new limit of £3,000 per annum as soon as present consultations with the medical profession are completed. This should be in a matter of weeks.

If these regulations are approved and made all those now entitled to limited eligibility health services will remain entitled and an estimated 85 per cent of the population will remain eligible for free hospital care.

In conclusion, may I say that this Bill proposes no more than that the present health contributions be increased in line with incomes and costs generally? The proposals it contains represent no more than the normal periodic increase in contributions in line with inflation.

I commend the Bill to the House.

I am surprised and amazed that we have this Bill in both Houses when consultation with the medical profession has not been finalised with regard to the income limits. As I said last year, the figures of £2,250 for manual workers and £1,600 for non-manual workers are unrealistic. I should like to ask the Minister if the figure of £3,000 mentioned in this document will be the figure for all? If it is, it is a welcome increase because a figure of £1,600 is ridiculously low and it did not help any of those who were not entitled to medical cards when they had to go to hospital. The sum of £3,000 is an improvement and I hope the differential between manual and non-manual workers will be abolished and that there will be the same figure for all.

This is a further method of obtaining additional taxation. A figure of £1.7 million has already been provided for in the budget. It imposes further taxation on a section of the community which can least bear the brunt of it. To ask a man who is earning £1,600 to pay this increase will impose hardship. It is sad that the weaker section is again being hit. The services provided for them have not been all they should have been. With that sort of earnings, I could never define what was manual and what was non-manual work, because both types needed help. If the manual worker was an insured person, he was entitled to other services in any event. The Bill was intended to aid the non-manual worker in the first instance, but he was the one who got the least from it eventually. The non-manual worker had nowhere to turn when he was caught at the limit of £1,600. I begged the Minister last year to increase the limit. This was not done, but I understand now that the figure of £3,000 will apply to non-manual as well as to manual workers. I hope that figure will be agreed to because it is an improvement on the existing drastically low figure.

It is proposed to increase the drug subsidy. The Minister stated in the other House that he intended increasing the figure from £4, but he has not stated exactly what the figure will be. We know that a person buying drugs above the figure of £4 received back the difference from the health boards. These were people who could ill-afford large sums for drugs and this compensation by the health boards certainly assisted them. I made representations on several occasions to the Minister on behalf of people in my area who were badly in need of drugs over a long period but who were unable to pay for them. I understand he intends to increase the figure of £4, but I do not know to what sum it will be increased. I would be against it. He should not do this. There are 60 per cent of the people receiving this return on the £4 limit. They are people who are in desperate need of drugs. It is a lot to ask people each week or month to submit those figures. If he is going to raise that limit he is putting aside any good that might come from it.

It is appropriate to talk about the general medical services on this Bill as it is a Bill of taxation. I would like to talk about the medical services of my own area, the Western Health Board. Last year I said in this House that the Western Health Board were not doing the job they were set up to do. Nothing has changed my mind since. When the health boards were set up it was decentralisation in a sort of central way, a gathering together of all the services and putting them into a unit. Transport services provided for patients who had to go to centralised hospitals—in Galway for example—patients who had to come from Ballina, from areas inside the catchment area, have now been taken away from them. It was a trick used by the Western Health Board to justify the centralisation of Galway hospital and to get away with it by saying that people could be taken without any extra cost from Ballina or such areas as remote as parts of Roscommon and parts of west Mayo. Now they find that their transport allowance is not as forthcoming as it used to be. Some of them have to pay their way into Galway when they want to go to hospital. That is disgraceful. They did not ask for Galway regional hospital to be the central hospital. They had one in Castlebar. There were several deputations to the Minister and to his predecessor not to degrade Castlebar hospital. The Minister should do something about it. The health boards are spending an enormous amount of money in the year and it does not seem to be benefiting the people it should benefit.

The DPMA service is another service operated by the Western Health Board. Last year it was suspended for a number of months because, we were told, they were reviewing the situation. I can never understand why any health board would have to review such a situation. They were well aware that the DPMA service was supplied to patients who could not get into a hospital—in our county St. Brigid's Hospital, Loughrea — because there was no room, and who were looked after by relatives or by kind neighbours. There was a waiting list in the regional hospital in Galway sometimes of as many as 60 or 70 people. If there was not somebody at home to care for the people who could not get into a hospital they were sent from one place to another. The DPMA service was a way of helping people to help themselves. Yet the Western Health Board thought fit last year to suspend the service until their investigation was carried out. We never heard the result of that investigation.

The Western Health Board last year spent and are going to spend in 1976 £32,117,000. When the health board took over from the county councils it was not costing us £1 million a year to run the Galway health service. At that time 46.4 per cent of the people had medical cards; not 51 per cent have medical cards today. That is an increase of 4 per cent. I am talking about the total number of people living in County Galway. We built the regional hospital in Galway. We extended St. Brigid's Hospital in Loughrea. We spent a lot of money on the hospital in Ballinasloe. We helped in other ways — a private hospital in Galway, a private hospital in Tuam and another private hospital in Ballinasloe. That was county council money at a figure less than £1 million. That is not so many years ago.

When a person had not a medical card and public representatives or the clergy found that people were unable to pay health bills, representations were made to the county council to explain the case, and if it was genuine the bill was scrapped. We were giving a service. We were criticised for spending so much money.

What about the Western Health Board today? There is a figure of £32,117,000 to be spent this year. We have the same hospital in Galway without an extra room or an extra bed; the same hospital in Loughrea; the same hospital in Ballinasloe; the same hospital in Tuam, without any help at all. We have the same private hospitals in Ballinasloe and in Galway city. Almost 51 per cent of the people, an increase of 4 per cent, have medical cards. We have over £31 million of an increase in the expenditure of that board.

At that time we had not a jammed hospital in Loughrea. Today we have. There is no talk at all of expanding our hospitals. We have a few little homes opened here and there as a means of explaining how all this money was spent. They did not cost one-eightieth of the figure given.

I would like to ask the Minister for Health if he is satisfied with the performance of the health boards, and in particular with the performance of the Western Health Board. I am not. I speak for a lot of public representatives. We have nothing but reviews. A medical card holder in County Galway would not have his card for 24 hours before another document would be sent reviewing the situation. Our hearts are broken. I am being honest about that. Every Sunday morning people come to me complaining about the trouble they have with their medical cards. Yet the taxpayers of this country are paying £32 million a year. This is 1976 and it is no better than it was in 1966. It is far more frustrating now to be sick.

Who is getting all this money? It seems to be civil servants of one description or another, running around our county, Roscommon and Mayo, for what I do not know. I would ask the Minister and the interdepartmental investigators when they are investigating free hospital care for all to investigate the so-called free hospitalisation that we have for some at the moment to see if it is working in a feasible way. Even in the private sector the enormous fees which are being asked in those hospitals suggest that that sector is now helping out this crazy expenditure which seems to be going ahead in those health boards.

Look at the state we are in this year with regard to the training of nurses. There was a time when Castlebar could train them, when Roscommon could train them, when Portiuncula Hospital in Ballinasloe could train them and Galway could train them. As far as I can see now there are a limited amount of people only for the Regional Hospital in Galway. In October last 800 or 900 girls went for interview, fine, young, educated girls who had their leaving certificate and wanted to be nurses. About 80 girls were taken on. There is nothing for them but the boat and even with that their prospect of training is limited these days. We were always renowned for our ability to train nurses. At the same time we have married women taking up positions in hospitals, depriving those young, educated girls of an opportunity in life. We have an abundance of nurses and an abundance of girls who want to be nurses.

I know it is hard on married women and young couples these days who have to start off in life to build a house and the husbands' incomes are not sufficent to do it. Some concession has to be made because we are driving those young girls out onto the streets because they find no place to which to turn. Always we trained at least 300 or 400 girls a year in the three counties. How many are we training today? We are not training even 100. Certainly if we are we do not see the figures for it.

I ask the Minister to make a statement on this situation and investigate from the Western Health Board how many girls turned up for the interviews last October, how many were received and how many are now working. We seem to be, freely and without question, coming in here daily to pump more money into those services, giving the taxpayers' money in a freelance way and saying: "Take this and off you go." We have done it with CIE, with the health boards and we are doing it here again today.

I may have wandered from what I was expected to say but it is an opportunity to say those things. I took the opportunity last year of saying those things because very seldom in this House is there an opportunity of making a point. I know we will not be here next year. Probably the present Minister for Health and Social Welfare will not be the Minister next year—not wishing him any harm but between this and then we are expecting to have our general election and, God willing, we will have a new Government—and we will be able to review the situation. We have learned a lot.

I feel sorry for people who have to pay, particularly the hard-pressed people. I would ask the Minister, in the light of the few remarks I have made, to refer to my points when replying. In the Bill there is very little to welcome other than the fact that there is now an income limit of £3,000 for eligibility and I welcome that. I asked last year for £2,500 for the non-manuals—I am sure the Minister remembers quite well. The figure of £3,000 is reasonable. It is not great but it is a basis. Anyone can understand that for a man with a wife and three or four children and the amount of money he needs to exist, £3,000, while it is a basic limit, is a good basis to start on.

Many people who should be asked to come into this scheme are not asked. There are many farmers who do not understand this scheme and who have never been asked or been circulated with the valuation — eligibility is based on valuation — and many of them when they are refused medical cards assume they have nothing and nowhere to turn to. I suggest that the Minister ask his Department to have all the farming people whose valuations allow them, to come into this scheme. There are some who are not in it, even though legally they are bound to be in it, but they know nothing about it and seem to have escaped this net, but who would willingly come into the scheme. It would be some protection for them and their families. It should be gone through again, not for a further review, but to recirculate those who are not in it and to let them know they can and should be in it.

I do not think anybody is going to quibble too much about the slight increase in the health contribution involved in this Bill. It has gone from 26p to 33p and from £12 to £15. Very definitely there is no possible beneficiary in the limited eligibility field who is going to quibble in the slightest at such an increase. It must be borne in mind that it arises directly as a result of the very high increase in the cost of health services in the past 12 months which we are told have increased by about 30 per cent since the end of 1974. The health services costs are very wage and salary intensive and the increase in health contributions must be expected in the light of the inflation there has been, particularly in the last 12 months. It must also be borne in mind that the Exchequer is now bearing the greater part of the cost of the health services. We find that local rates in 1976 will meet only less than 2 per cent of the costs of the health services as compared with something around 40 per cent four years ago.

This Bill gives us an opportunity to talk about health services in general. The health field is one which is never short of needs but is always short of resources to meet those needs. There is an increasing demand all the time from people for more sophistication in the services. With the increasing new fields of medical attention that keep coming on the scene, it is inevitable that it will always be a problem to find resources to meet all these requirements.

The future does not bode very good for us in this regard. I do not think it will see us in any better position to meet the costs of health services. We find in figures which were published in the course of a seminar held in Waterford in May, 1975—the subject being a review of Irish health services —that this country, of all the EEC countries, has the highest birth rate per 1,000 population — a figure of something in excess of 22 per 1,000 as compared with an average of about 15 in all the other EEC countries.

On top of that Ireland has the lowest GNP per head, a GNP figure which is less than half of what applies in any of five other EEC countries. This situation—a very high birth rate and increasing one in the future as against the very low GNP — affects the money which will always be available for health services. It has to be borne in mind also that health requirements are changing all the time. People come to expect a higher standard of service when they go into an out-patients department in a hospital or receive treatment in hospital. There is a change very much in evidence there. We find also that there is a decline in death rates in the maternity field. There is certainly an increasing elderly population.

There is an increasing infant population. All of these things will of course lead to a situation where there will be a limited supply of funds available to meet what is almost an infinitely increasing number of needs. In future we will have to turn our minds towards how far this country can go in doing what it wishes to do in the health field and how far it will find itself willing to devote funds to do that job.

Certain priorities will have to be set. Certain services which year after year receive an increasing fund allocation may well have to be tapered off and some others reduced; while others, which may well be new needs, will have to receive an increasing amount of financial allocation. It is desirable in such a situation that the Department of Health should always look, in conjunction with the health boards, at any possible economy which can be effected within the health board ambit.

I take this opportunity to refer to some criticism which received very wide newspaper coverage over the past few months with regard to cuts which were being made by the Department of Health in the various health board estimates for 1976. When the Minister for Health gave the information as regards what was being sought and what was being allocated by the Department the reduction was far below the serious levels which was intimated in the newspaper headings. The total of the eight health boards' estimate for non-capital expenditure for 1976 was in the region of £175 million. The allocation finally approved was £165 million, which is £10 million below what was sought by the health boards in the first instance. Anybody who has experience at local authority level of drawing up estimates of financial requirements for the coming 12 months to submit to any Department will know that there is always an inclination to indulge in slight exaggeration and inflation of projected figures. The health boards are not in any way different from the local authority in this regard. It was encouraging to see that the Minister for Health has since been able to point out that following consultations with five of the health boards agreement had been reached that economies could be made without damaging the services within those health board areas. That should finish the criticism, which was somewhat unreasonable and unfair and uninformed.

When the Department in conjunction with the health boards come to investigate where economies can be made in health board expenditure there are a number of fields to which some attention could be paid. The question of expenditure on drugs and medicines is one which even the staff responsible for prescribing, administering or distributing these drugs under the general medical services scheme will themselves admit that there is abuse. There is a need for an awareness of the cost of drugs and medicines to be conveyed to the recipients. Very many holders of medical cards are entitled to receive a plentiful supply of drugs weekly which is their right under the medical services scheme, but the cost of these drugs is something which should be brought to the attention of the recipients. Perhaps the label on the bottle which indicates to the recipient how the medicine should be used should also bear an indication of the cost of the medicine. It might well encourage the recipient to be a bit more prudent in the usage.

The use of the out-patients department in the hospitals is something which could be looked at by the Department and the health boards as regards greater usage. There have been far too many instances where people are due for only an examination and find themselves going into hospital for two or three days. They are occupying beds which should be available for people who are more seriously ill. The out-patients department and the various diagnostic treatments should be put to the greater service of those people to try and avoid a situation where beds are occupied where they could be left available for more serious cases.

In the mental illness field there is a problem. It is a very complicated field and it requires very complex methods of treatment in medicines. There might well be a difficulty in trying to effect some economy there. I feel that the mental health situation is one which has up to now received less priority than it deserves. In Britain today the Ministry of Health there have, in conjunction with the various local health authorities, devised a form of priority listing which is determined by the categories of people who should be on the top of the list. In other words, the categories are listed by their classes rather than by the services, which have been the basis of finance allocations for far too long both here and in England.

The medical profession are a very representative and a very full part of the health board structure. Criticism has been levelled by Senator Killilea concerning whether health boards are fulfilling the functions for which they were originally intended. Some of the fault lies in the structure of the health boards and the way they were constituted in the first instance. I know that doctors all have their own pet subjects. They are all inclined to beat drums for their own favourite medical subject and favourite methods of treatment. It is very hard for lay people on health boards to resist the arguments of the medical profession who are the experts, and they are the people one is always inclined to heed in the final resort.

In future the Government should do a survey on which are the categories of people who should have priority. The result of their investigation would, I think, come down very heavily in favour of the elderly, the mentally ill and physically disabled. Children, of course, are not catered for to the extent that they should be. There is a very definite problem at the moment in regard to mentally handicapped children whose parents have considerable difficulty in placing them in institutions anywhere. The presence of a mentally handicapped child in a family is a tremendous load for the parents. Unfortunately in some instances there can be friction and a breakdown of marriage unity. The Department should place at the top of their list of priorities the mentally ill, particularly children.

This Bill is brief in its objective. It sets out to increase the rates of contributions. Nobody can really complain about that. There are increasing costs which have to be met and they must be met in the final resort by taxpayers. I have no doubt that in 12 months' time the Minister will probably be coming back for another increase which we certainly will not hesitate to approve for him.

The Minister is to be complimented for endeavouring to bring about changes in the health services. There have been real practical gains in the health field over the past number of years. In 1976, when there are very definite financial restraints, it is impossible to say we will see the same rate of real progress as we have seen in previous years. But one year is a very short term. I know that in future years the Minister for Health will be able to devote considerable energies towards bringing about more real achievements and advances in the health service.

A Leas-Chathaoirleach, ní bheidh mise ró-fhada mar tá a lán ráite cheana ar an ábhar seo.

First, I would like to say that the Minister's post is a tremendously responsible one, one of the most important positions in the Government because in any civilised country it should be fundamental that particular attention be paid to the thousands who are sick, aged, infirm, deaf, dumb, mentally handicapped or disabled in any way. These are the members of our society who are unable to fend for themselves. For many of them, their time for working has passed. Some of them have never been able to sustain themselves since they came on this earth and will continue to live in such a manner. Therefore, a good yardstick of the civilisation of a community is the effort society makes to make life as tolerable and as easy as possible for these classes of people.

I believe the Minister has this at heart and that he would be anxious to fulfil a role such as this. From the beginning he has been handicapped because finance is not forthcoming. There are many worthwhile schemes that the Minister would like to introduce but he is unable to do so. As a measure of his good intentions, one could say that some time ago the Minister publicly announced that not alone was he going to improve the health services that were in existence then for the lower and middle income groups but he was going to extend them up to the top bracket and provide more or less free health service for all and sundry. That could be a very laudable exercise in so far as it would take the stigma of handouts from health services. He now realises that it is not possible to do that. He is now forced to cut back on many of the services he intended to give to the people in those days. Along with that, this announcement had a bad effect on people who were already in the voluntary health service. Many of them felt that they should abandon their policies and it would be very unfortunate and very sad if many of them fell out of this scheme because of the announcement. They would immediately lose benefits. At present, anybody suffering illness is faced with colossal bills. The upper income section of the community, at present, should carry their own liability, which they are doing. The Minister should be very reluctant to make any announcement about providing services for them until he is perfectly sure that the Minister for Finance is in a generous mood and able to provide the money required.

This Bill is another form of taxation. Just as in the various budgets we have had, this is something that has to be borne by the taxpayer. I wonder how much money the Minister will be able to collect by this means and how much of it is already allocated. Or, is it included in the amounts that have been allocated to the various health boards? It is common knowledge — indeed it has been implemented in the North-eastern Health Board and in the various other health boards — that there must be a sort of go-slow policy this year. There must be cutbacks in various ways. While one could not say at this stage that there will be any depreciation of service, at the same time it is only fair to advert to the fact that at our health board meeting our manager announced that unless there was a 10 per cent increase in costs there would not be any cutback in services. So far, the increase that has taken place since the beginning of this year is in the region of 7 per cent. I am not a prophet of doom but I wonder what will happen between this and the end of the financial year. It will amaze me if we are able to keep within that 3 per cent. If we are not, where will the officials and members of the various health boards decide to do their pruning and their paring?

It would be a disaster if there were a cutback on the number of health cards or medical cards that are available. The real thinking behind the Health Act was that nobody, irrespective of who he was or into what category he fitted, would be deprived of medical service on the grounds that he was unable to pay. That is the fundamental principle. It is a principle which I am sure the various health boards would do their best to maintain at present.

I also know that there will be a cutback or standstill so far as the provision of any buildings or extensions are concerned. We must congratulate the Minister on making his announcement about the siting of the hospitals, but once that is done people expect fundamental planning to go ahead so that when capital is available, work can start. It takes a long time to do this planning. I advise the Minister to try to go ahead in as many areas as possible with the fundamental plans so as to ensure that when finances are available he will be able to give the green light for the erection of these regional hospitals.

Another part of the health service that has worried me and others for a long time is the dental service, particularly in relation to the primary schools. Children attending primary schools are examined periodically. The county medical officer and the staff that go around the schools do an excellent job.

The period between visits is too long—often three years before the second visit—and a pupil of ten or, perhaps 11 years would find himself in a post-primary school before the next visit and there he would get little or no service. I think that the period between the age of 12 and 16 is tremendously important so far as the health of the future generations here is concerned.

We must admit that a great effort has been made at the ends of the scale. Indeed, Senator Markey, I think, adverted to the fact that there was a great increase in the birth rate and in the number of people who remain alive and I would be one of the first to concede that our health services have improved immensely over the years. During my connection with county councils and health boards, whatever may be said about the costs it is only fair to say that these boards have done a wonderful job and made great improvements. While my own county council in their time did a fair amount, the health boards have made great progress. So far as younger children are concerned they are reasonably good. They have provided various essential types of health service but for far too long we are leaving the gap between the age of 12 and 16. This is a vital age especially where parents are not able to provide these services.

In 1976 it is ridiculous that children of ten, 12 or 14 should require to have permanent teeth extracted and that many of them will need dentures. In a healthy community, if teeth were examined in time and if this service was continued right up to the age of 16 with, perhaps, more stringent regulations regarding certain lollipops and sweets, I think that we should be able to ensure that almost 90 per cent of our people would retain their own permanent teeth.

Ban Kojak.

This part of the health services should be improved immensely. Teeth are part of one's appearance and no matter how efficiently dentists and dental mechanics may provide substitutes there is no substitute for the real thing. Future generations will thank us if we make our best effort to ensure that children when they come to manhood will have their own teeth. Another aspect of the health service that I feel needs attention is that relating to the aged, those people who are old and people who find themselves living alone. Senator Higgins referred to the number of people that statistics show live in the 12 western counties in particular and who live alone. The difficulty here is that when any of these people become sick, as they will eventually, there is nothing for it, it seems, except to pack them off to a hospital and the type of hospital they go to is usually one from which they do not expect to return. I think that is bad for the individual and it is a reflection on our system. I do not know how the Minister could solve this but something better could be done, so far as home help is concerned and paying a dependent relative. The provision could be amended in some way so that, perhaps, a good neighbour or somebody who was not a relation but was prepared to look after an old person would qualify for an allowance. The aged person would be much more satisfied to live in his own little cabin despite the fact that it might not appear very attractive to officials calling to visit him. The old person would be much more at home there than in county institutions with nice polished floors, good food and the best of attention. All these things are provided at present and they are excellent but we know from experience and from listening to these people that no institution can provide the type of solace that an old person gets in living in his or her own home and being cared for by their own people and living among their own neighbours with whom they can converse.

I do not think that modern television and various types of entertainment are the type of entertainment that satisfy an old person especially when he is very old. He finds it difficult to make new friends when he has to be taken away from those with whom he lived most of his life and must go to one of these geriatic homes or hospitals—prisons or whatever one might like to call them. That is no reflection whatsoever on the staff or the nurses or the doctors or on anybody who works in these institutions. They do an excellent job. They are very kind and they do their very best to make the people comfortable. This is a matter that the Minister himself might consider: perhaps we are often too fond of trying to build the geriatric home for old people in some city or some big town. It would be much better if there were, as the Chair may know there are in his own constituency in Ballinamore, houses for old people where they can live and have somebody who will take care of five or six or nine or ten of them together. That would be much better, perhaps, than the hospitals.

Senator Killilea referred to what was happening in the various health boards. I want to be perfectly fair regarding the health board of which I have experience, the North Eastern Health Board. The staff and the officials who work there and our doctors and nurses are doing an excellent job. We had difficulty in the past in getting medical men to take up positions within our health region. I do not want this to be taken as a reflection on the medical profession but we have advanced so far in our society that certain people do not want to live in certain areas and I suppose they are entitled to their choice and if they can get better or more attractive surroundings they go to other places. Many people feel that if a doctor is not within reasonable reach of them, they will die.

We have been trying to get over that by trying to provide good ambulance services and have ambulances placed at various strategic points, but we find that because the Department of Posts and Telegraphs have not kept pace with modern developments we are unable to introduce the service until we have an automatic exchange. The Minister might be able to have a word with his colleague to ensure that as quickly as possible this automatic exchange will be provided so that people in our area will have a good service. Along the Border, this is rather difficult and very often accidents take place and other incidents when quick service is needed. There were several bombs in my area and the health services were tremendously efficient. So too, of course, were the Civil Defence services. It is only fair to pay them the compliment they deserve because they were immediately on the scene and did everything in their power to comfort those injured and tried to get them off to hospital as quickly as possible.

I will conclude by saying that the Minister is bringing in this increase. I suppose we must admit that an increase is necessary if the services are to be provided. Money must be found; I do not blame them for trying to get it but it is an extension of the budget. We look to the Minister to ensure that there will be no decrease in the health services at present and if at all possible that they will be improved. It is a charitable and humane type of an assignment that he has as Minister and one in respect of which he himself has shown great concern because he was a Minister for Social Welfare and he understands a good deal about the needs of the people. I can assure him that, as a member of the health board, anything I can do to help in any way to ensure that he will have a better service for the aged and infirmed, I will do.

We, on this side of the House, regard this legislation as a further tax measure. When the Members of this House and of the Dáil received the Book of Estimates they realised that the Minister for Finance had taken into consideration the money that is to be raised from these increases at that time in the actual arithmetic of the budget that he was then putting before the Dáil and the Seanad. It is on that basis that we oppose it. We see it as a taxation measure.

The money raised through this legislation will not improve the existing services. We cannot see any improved services coming from the money raised by this legislation. There is much confusion among every section of the people at present in regard to health services because quite recently the Minister stated that he could foresee a free medical service. Naturally, people wondered how this could be brought about in the present economic climate, at a time when the Minister has directed an alignment to serious cutbacks in the hospital services. What I fear when cutbacks take place in any situation is that the defenceless and the poorer sections of the community may suffer, that any cutback in the general hospital services would mean that the poor, the aged and the handicapped would suffer as a result.

Any Government should ensure that there should be no cutback in health services. I imagine that the estimates submitted by the various health boards to the Minister and the Department were calculated by men who know their job, CEOs and executive and administration staffs in the health boards. The estimates they submitted could not be so much out of line that the Minister saw fit to ask these health boards to function on much less money.

I do not intend to detain the Minister too long. Other speakers have referred particularly to their own health areas. As a public representative from the Midland Health Board area I welcome this opportunity of having the Minister for Health in this House because I want to ask him again to reconsider his decision regarding the proposals he has for the Midland Health Board region. It is proposed to have two minimum scale hospitals within the Midland Health Board region and that Tullamore hospital will be a community hospital.

I want to refer the Minister back to the original proposal of the Midland Health Board when they opted for a full scale general hospital for the Midland Health Board region. My summing up of what took place is this. Parish pump politics took over with the members of the health board from the four counties concerned on the basis that if a full-scale general hospital came to the Midland Health Board region they thought that Tullamore would be the place where that particular hospital would be built. They connived together and rejected that decision and came forward with the proposal to have two minimum-scale hospitals for the towns of Portlaoise and Mullingar. I do not think they recommended to the Minister that Tullamore should become a community hospital. When they made their decision they forgot about the future health care of many of the people of the four counties concerned in the Midland Health Board region.

I am earnestly and sincerely requesting the Minister to reconsider his proposals for the Midland Health Board area. People from County Offaly will now have to be brought to Portlaoise or Mullingar. Naturally, as a community hospital there will be no surgical services in Tullamore hospital. This may be a long term development but the Minister in reply to several Dáil questions on this particular question stated that the future of Tullamore is as a community hospital. Naturally, there will be no surgical services available in the hospital when that day comes. On the other hand, I doubt very much if any health board area has had to settle for a minimum-scale general hospital. I believe that all other health board areas will have a full-scale, general hospital. We in the Midland Health Board find ourselves in the position of having the only health board area where a full scale general hospital is not to be built.

It is clearly on that basis that I avail of this opportunity to point out to the Minister that in his proposals the Midland Health Board area is being neglected in that it will not have a full-scale general hospital and on the basis that the people of County Offaly, in particular, are being badly treated in the sense that they will have to travel so far for surgical services and because the four counties are being deprived of a full-scale general hospital.

A recent meeting of the Midland Health Board requested the Minister to reconsider the proposals in regard to Tullamore. They asked him at least to ensure that they would be aligned with whatever improvements would be carried out in Portlaoise and Mullingar, or that the position would be left as it was and the existing services would be maintained in the county hospital in Tullamore. I avail of this opportunity to stress that the four counties concerned are suffering. It is not just a case of Offaly suffering. The four counties in the Midland Health Board are the sufferers because they are not getting the services of a full-scale general hospital. I ask the Minister most sincerely to reconsider the proposal and ensure that the existing services are maintained in Tullamore. That is not a whole lot to ask and I ask the Minister seriously to consider my request.

Since the Minister came to office we have had unprecedented expansion and extension of the health services. I remember the sort of health service that was available when I was first elected as a member of our county council. There was a limited range of facilities and services available and I know the improvements that have been carried out. We got an increase of 8 or 9 per cent in the funds for our health board area. I do not regard this as being an unreasonable cutback in expenditure. It may not be sufficient to provide an extension of the services but the sort of expansion we have had, the rapid expansion since the setting up of the board, certainly produced inefficiencies.

I was in the health board office a few days ago and some of the staff pointed out to me the areas in which savings could be made. I believe that after the rapid expansion we have had, a pause was needed in order to take stock, tighten up loose ends and improve the efficiency of the boards. This year the health boards are being told by the Minister to do this sort of thing. There is no fear and no danger that the weak and the needy will suffer a cutback in services. I believe that we will get better value for money and this is overdue.

The question of the large amount of drugs being used by medical card holders will have to be examined. A chemist told me that his information was that two-thirds of the drugs being used were being used by one-third of the people who had medical cards. Whatever the cost of drugs, I do not want to see anybody who is sick having to do without drugs. But I am satisfied that large quantities of drugs are being prescribed by doctors who do not appreciate the gravity of the situation. Patients do not know what is being prescribed or what it is costing. I am sure the Minister is acutely aware of this. He should discuss this with the doctors and ask them to consider the situation. Money could be saved and more could be made available for those genuinely in need.

I should like to refer to welfare homes. Senator Dolan also referred to this. He mentioned the Ballinamore experiment where older people are cared for in their own community for a fraction of the £2,000 a year that is being spent on each of them in welfare homes. I would ask the Minister to examine the position.

I was very appreciative of the calm and helpful way in which Senators approached this Bill. From the contributions that have been made here and in the other House, it appears to me that there seems to be no dispute about the increases proposed. It has been the normal practice since the Health Contributions Act, 1971. It has been described by the Fianna Fáil Party as being a tax, but it was introduced by my predecessor, the late President Childers, in his own words, to supplement the financing of the health services. That is exactly what is being done here today and, as I said, people accept that in view of movements in wages and in inflation generally it is a justifiable increase.

There were references to cutbacks, which I referred to as economies. There has been a fair amount of scaremongering over the last two months since the allocations were notified to the health boards. It is a field in which there can be scaremongering and in which political mileage can be gained, whether deliberately or not is a matter for the individual who makes the contribution. The area of health is a sensitive one. and it is because of that that people become emotional about it. People who speak in public tend to play on the emotional aspect of health. The amount of the increases do not seem to worry Senators; they were not a worry to Deputies in Dáil Éireann either—the increases are reasonable and were accepted.

The measure gives people scope to talk about the health services in general. Senator McCartin summed up the matter when he said that we had done pretty well so far as finances were available. It would be no harm for me to give an idea of what we have been spending on the health services in recent years. I am particularly concerned with my own three years as Minister for Health. Expenditure has grown by 144 per cent in the last three years. No other Department could claim that the money allocated to them showed an increase of anything near 144 per cent with possibly the exception of the Departments catering for the Garda and the Army. This increase has been modified because of rapid inflation over the last three years but so far as expenditure on health services is concerned there has been an improvement in real terms of 16 per cent. The Exchequer is contributing £242 million this year, compared to an Exchequer contribution of £67 million in 1972-73. That represents an increase of 261 per cent. So far as the allocation for health is concerned, there is an all-time record in 1976 as opposed to the criticism that has been made. It is the highest percentage of gross national product ever allocated to the health service. That in itself is a tribute to the Government who make the decisions as to what moneys should be allocated. In terms of gross national product, in terms of Exchequer contribution, it is an all-time record as far as health services go.

People are concerned about medical cards and I can understand their concern. The criticism we have heard tonight and over the last few weeks, generally with regard to the health services, would be criticisms and queries that would be made and put even in times when we were in a position to give more to the health services. As far as the lower income group are concerned, I would say that as far as the issue of medical cards is concerned they have greatly benefited. When I came to office in March, 1973, 28 per cent of the population were covered by medical cards—that is, holders and their dependants. At present that figure is 36 per cent. Therefore, there is an increase from 28 per cent to 36 per cent.

I will remind the Seanad that some of that is accounted for by reason of the fact that we have a number of extra people who are unemployed. But, taking that into account, there has been a gradual increase in the issue of medical cards over the last three years.

There are complaints now that medical cards have been taken from people. That is true. They have been taken from people at various times since the general health scheme was introduced ten years ago. We will always have the person who believes that he or she should have a medical card. The chief executive officers lay down the guidelines. I provide the money for them. They have to adhere strictly to the guidelines laid down. When I came into office I discovered that there were various guidelines in the various health boards. In some cases there was allowance for travel, allowance for children, allowance for rent and various things like that. In others there were not. In others there was a mixture. On the first or second occasion that I met the CEOs, as a result of our discussions they decided on a uniform scale of guidelines which have now been applied over the whole country.

There are hardship cases where people may exceed the guidelines or the limits from time to time, but it has been found that the health boards have not been ungenerous to people who can plead hardship even though they do not qualify for a medical card. It can apply to an individual in a family or for a temporary period in a family where there is long illness.

Apart from the standardisation of the guidelines in the last two years there has also been a review of the guidelines with regard to inflation and increases in wages and so on. These reviews take place every six months. A not inconsiderable improvement in the health services is demonstrated by the fact that in 1972-73 there were 42,000 people employed in the health services and today there are 47,500, an increase of 5,500. People might criticise and say that this is what is wrong with the health boards, we have too many employees in them, but they seem to assume that there are too many administrators, there is too much top brass. This is not the case. The bulk of this increase of 5,500 is in relation to those who actually work on the ground, the doctors, nurses, welfare officers and all those who are directly concerned with the provision of good health and the curing of people.

This increase has led to an improvement in the quality of the whole range of the health services. In addition in the last three years there has been an extra 1,760 institutional beds of all kinds provided since this Government took office. In general hospitals the figure is an extra 400 beds. In psychiatric and mentally handicapped hospitals the figure is 900. People referred here to the plight of the psychiatric patients and those who are mentally ill and mentally handicapped.

We try to provide within the resources we have had over the last three years the maximum amount possible in order to ensure that those people who needed to be treated in institutions would have a better chance than they have had heretofore. As far as homes for the aged are concerned the target was something like 40 welfare homes of which 24 have been provided up to date. It has been pointed out that such development is not possible during 1976.

In the case of the blind, an extra 160 beds have been provided. Other improvements were made, such as additions to the list of long-term illnesses in respect of which drugs and medicines are supplied free of charge regardless of income. A constant care allowance in respect of severely mentally or physically handicapped children was also introduced. That was a most welcome innovation by the Government. It cost the State something in the region of £1 million.

There was the generous attitude of the Government towards thalidomide children, responsibility for which was not taken and would not be taken by the previous Government. Possibly if they had stayed in power longer they might have come around to the point where they would have felt some sense of responsibility, but to the credit of this Government they were very generous with such children. At the same time they introduced the constant care allowance of £25 per month.

I know the general hospital plan has not been welcomed in various places. I wish to assure the House that the selections were made by me in accordance with the guidelines that were laid down by Comhairle na nOspidéal and in all cases in accordance with the recommendations of the eight health boards. I know I have disappointed people in Monaghan, I know how disappointed people are in Tullamore, in Manorhamilton and various other places like that, but we accepted the principle of the establishment of bigger and better equipped hospitals throughout the whole country, and this was the result.

Efforts were not made by the last Government to evolve any sort of a hospital plan. The Fitzgerald Committee were established and they came up with recommendations which did not appear to be accepted by anybody in public life, either in the Dáil or the Seanad or in the public bodies. I was very critical of the plan they produced. I said so and gave my reasons. I was not necessarily happy, because Wexford town was left out of it. It was something that was not acceptable to the Fianna Fáil Government of the time. The late Mr. Childers, who was Minister for Health, ignored it. He hoped it would die and that people would forget about it. When I came into office I decided we would have to evolve some sort of a plan because it appeared that many of our county hospitals were badly in need of repair, could be described as third class hospitals, even though the personnel in them gave a very long and efficient service. Now the plan means that in the areas that have been picked we will have hospitals that will be able to cater for a majority of the population in the various provincial or rural areas.

Planning is going ahead in respect of hospitals. It is a tedious process. It is going on in Letterkenny, in Tralee, in Cavan, because it is recognised that Cavan deserves perhaps not absolute priority but some sort of priority.

I am concerned about the training and employment of the handicapped. If people look at the record and the results they will find that as far as this Government are concerned the training and employment is a priority. As a matter of fact, there was an established working party on this and the report on the training and employment of the handicapped has been received and has been implemented as quickly as possible. Community information centres were also established, something that was clamoured for quite a long time.

What I am saying in essence is this that we are spending an enormous amount on the health services. The Government do not begrudge the amount of money that is being spent but, as I said, it is an all time record. But it is not sufficient just to shovel money into the health services unless we are satisfied that the money is being spent in the right direction and that we are getting the most beneficial results.

Therefore, there must be an evaluation of health expenditure. This is absolutely essential particularly, as I said in my opening remarks, because 18 per cent of non-capital expenditure goes to health as against 10.5 per cent in 1971. It is essential that we evaluate the ways in which we spend the money. I also believe that it is essential to ensure that the scarce resources which we have are devoted to the most valuable programmes. It is essential to ensure that money is not wasted. On this matter, the Opposition like to refer to the cutbacks, that is the reduction, in their estimation but I call them economies and I challenge anybody in this House or in the other House to go into hospitals throughout the country to see not deliberate waste but waste that could be obliterated. I am trying to ensure that this will happen in 1976, that there will be an evaluation of the expenditure, that there will be a positive search into the matter of spending money in the right direction. There is evidence of waste in many of our institutions and this we must eliminate because otherwise hospital administration will go merrily on in the knowledge that the State, the Exchequer or the Department of Health, will take up the bill, as against the time when the health services will be funded differently, and we are awaiting that, thank God, in accordance with the promise we made when we formed the Government, when 40 to 50 per cent of the health expenditure was provided by the ratepayers and members of county councils and health boards were much more careful in their demands to their executive officers. Now that their contribution amounts to something like 1.2 or 1.8 per cent, I am not saying they wilfully do it, but they have not the same responsibility as I have as Minister for Health to ensure that moneys devoted to the health services are spent in the proper way and that the right amounts are provided as well.

We must evaluate our administrative structures to see that the services are administered effectively and economically. Senator Killilea made the same sort of criticism last year as he did this year. He doubted the efficiency of the health boards and seemed to infer that they did not give the same return as far as health care was concerned as the old system under which the counties themselves were responsible for the health services. There is need for a programme evaluation and a whole review of the administrative system. All these administrative and economic problems are not just peculiar to this country. This sort of debate is going on in many parts of the world, in Britain and in Europe and in the world generally. I am trying to improve the procedures in these areas, in administration and in programme evaluation.

Towards that end, in 1973 an organisation unit was established that would take up the task of improving the administration in the Department of Health itself, and that is a rather revolutionary idea. The unit has also undertaken work with the health boards to improve their financial control and budgetary arrangements and to ensure that money is spent in the best direction and with the best results. This organisation unit has also undertaken pilot studies on hospital administration schemes. This has been started in St. Finbar's in Cork which is one of the health board hospitals, and it also commenced, in association with the Mater Hospital, a study to see how their financial control and budgetary methods can be improved. If we can learn from these two studies and if we can apply them to the other hospitals, the voluntary and the health board hospitals, we will be on the way to ensuring what I hope will be the result of ensuring that money will be spent in the right direction.

There are also the individual services, apart from the general hospital administration, and there is a growing awareness in all our health agencies for a need for a shift of resources, meaning that some of the resources that now go into hospitals would be shifted to community care because it has been pointed out here that the cost of a stay in hospital now is extremely high due to various reasons such as inflation and wages and salaries.

These are the things we must think about when considering economies because the State, no matter how much money it has at its disposal, will always find, as Deputy Markey said, that there is a need and a seeking for more and more. The demand for health services is limitless, but unfortunately the resources are not.

There was criticism, by Deputy Killilea in particular, about the health boards and there was a suggestion that there is a need for a review of the whole system. As I explained to the Dáil last night, I propose to establish a review body, but before I go on I should like to correct an impression that there are enormous bureaucracies at the top of the health boards. This is not so. There are 50 who could be described as top management and they would include people like the CEOs, programme managers, accountants, personnel officers, planning officers, apart from the typists, the clerks and others who are not directly engaged in the health sphere. Due to the fact that we will be spending £165 million in 1976, nobody could suggest that top management in eight health boards to the extent of 50 is excessive. There were 50 in the beginning. There was an addition of two posts established in 1970.

We should not assume that because health expenditure has gone up since the health boards were established that this is necessarily a consequence of their establishment.

Much of the increased expenditure has been due to rises in pay rates and, of course, to inflation and development policies over the year, particularly during the last three years. As I said in the beginning, the improvements in the health service in the last three years was represented by an increase of 16½ per cent. If the health services are to be re-organised, and if the health boards are to be re-organised, there are only three methods by which this can be done. The first one would be a reversion to the county system. I do not believe that we should revert to a county system. This is my personal point of view. My party are in favour of regionalisation of these health boards. Somebody said on one occasion that we could unscramble the scrambled egg, and that is what it would mean. I believe that if we reverted to the county system next year or the year after, or in the near future, we would have many more problems than we have at present and that expenditure would be greater. I am doubtful whether we would get the personnel or whether we would get the county managers to re-take responsibility for the administration of health. There could be an entirely new system or we could consider improving the present system.

I believe that the most practical and wisest thing to do would be to improve the present system. McKinsey who came in on the establishment of personnel for the health boards after the health boards had been established in accordance with the decision of the two Houses of the Oireachtas suggested that there would be a review after five years. That five years is up. I think it is only natural that a review should take place. As I said to the Dáil last night, this certainly is not meant to be, nor would I want it to be, a reflection on the staff, on their competence or on their dedication. I do not believe we should have a witch hunt. There is far too much loose talk at present, particularly with regard to expenditure in the health services.

To review the health services and their administration, we have to decide how that review will take place. There could be a special team from the Department of Health with outside consultants. There could be an investigation by a team of outside consultants. There could be an all-party committee of Deputies and Senators, that is, a committee of the House or a select group of all parties could represent us from the professions, from the Department of Health, the consumers and the trade union movement.

I just mentioned these as options. I have not made my mind up yet except to the extent of saying that there should be a review. I do not know what will come of this. I do not think we should be too optimistic as to the outcome particularly when those of us who were in the Dáil at that time remember the select committee that was established on the health services and which met between 1961 and 1965. The results of their labours — it may not have been their fault — did not bear much fruit.

I indicated in my opening speech — I do not know whether Senator Killilea was here or not — that I intended to extend the limits and I hope to put regulations before the Dáil and the Seanad in a reasonably short time. The proposal would be to raise the limit of £2,250 to £3,000 and in the case of the self-employed pensioners and so on from £1,600 to £3,000 because when the last change was made the people in the £1,600 bracket were forgotten. That will be corrected when the new regulations are introduced.

I do not want to prolong my speech but I should like to correct some of the allegations that have been made with regard to cutbacks. I should like to compliment the members of the health boards in the various parts of the country. I have not seen in any of the newspapers any effort by them to seek medical capital. Whether they were reported or not, I do not know. I cannot remember reading any of the wild allegations which were made in other places.

The members of the health boards have acted responsibly and have attempted to make reasonable economies without affecting patient care. I would like to stress here that in their consultations the various health boards and the Department of Health decided that any economies that were made would not affect patient care. That is the important thing as far as I am concerned and I am sure it is the important thing as far as the Senators and the Deputies are concerned as well.

We did have some scare stories which did not do the morale of the personnel in the health services any good and certainly seemed to be designed to frighten our unfortunate people who have to have recourse to the health services. There was a suggestion, for example, in respect of free milk to children that the age would be reduced. This was not decided. It was not considered by me and there was no truth in the world that this was going to take place. Even though denials were made in respect of that allegation, they continued to be made and I suppose, will be made in the coming weeks as well.

It was also suggested that the welfare allowances would be cut. Instead of cutting the welfare allowances, as Senators know, an increase of 10 per cent will be given in all these allowances during this year from the 1st of April. Again, there will be a review in October.

It was also suggested that a means test for constant care allowance would be reduced. There is not a scintilla of truth in that. Again, even though these allegations were denied, those who made them in the first place will continue to make them.

It was also alleged that the routine child examinations would be done away with. There is no truth in that. It was refuted but people still continue to repeat it. It was also suggested that 50 beds would be closed down in three major Dublin hospitals. I inquired about that and gave an assurance that this was not so but still the allegations are made. There were doubts as to whether the general medical service would be maintained on the same level as 1975. Again, I gave an assurance that that would be so. In order to ensure that there would be no slip-up in respect of the operation of the general medical service for those who would be in the lower income group, the Health Boards allocated an extra 19 per cent to the general medical service section of the health service as against the overall increase of 13.5 per cent in respect of the Estimate as a whole.

I am as conscious as anybody about the expenditure on drugs. A number of points were made in the debate about this. I shall like to inform the Senators who mentioned this matter that a working party was established a short time ago of representatives of the Department, the health boards, the doctors, the pharmacists and the pharmaceutical industry: "To look into the issue of economic and responsible prescribing within general medical services." Their terms of reference are broad enough to ensure that expenditure on drugs would not be as high as it is and that there would not be what appears to me to be an abuse of drugs in very many cases. I am certainly not suggesting that there should be any diminution in the quality of the drugs; far from it. It appears that some people have an idea that a cheap drug is as good as a dear one. However, all these matters, like overprescribing and people holding drugs in their own homes, will be investigated because the drug bill in our health service, as in health services all over the world, appears to be pretty big indeed.

I think I may have covered the individual points made in a general way. I do not think I am expected to go into detail on this short Bill. I have assured Senator Dolan about the issue of medical cards and the planning of the hospitals, and what we are doing in that respect in particular areas where the situation is bad. I share his concern about the dental service. As resources become more readily available we will try to make further improvements in the dental service. I take all the points he made, points which I made when I was in Opposition and for years before it.

I have covered the general points, maybe not specific ones, but I commend this short Bill to the House. There does not seem to be any opposition to the direct proposals contained in it.

Question put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 24; Níl, 12.

  • Barrett, Jack.
  • Blennerhassett, John.
  • Boland, John.
  • Butler, Pierce.
  • Codd, Patrick.
  • Daly, Jack.
  • Deasy, Austin.
  • Ferris, Michael.
  • Halligan, Brendan.
  • Harte, John.
  • Higgins, Michael D.
  • Horgan, John S.
  • Kerrigan, Patrick.
  • Kilbride, Thomas.
  • Lyons, Michael Dalgan.
  • McCartin, John Joseph.
  • Mannion, John M.
  • Markey, Bernard.
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Higgins, Michael J.
  • O'Toole, Patrick.
  • Sanfey, James W.
  • Walsh, Mary.
  • Whyte, Liam.

Níl

  • Brennan, John J.
  • Browne, Patrick (Fad).
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Dolan, Séamus.
  • Eachthéirn, Cáit Uí.
  • Garrett, Jack.
  • Hanafin, Des.
  • Keegan, Seán.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Ryan, Eoin.
  • Ryan, William.
  • Yeats, Michael B.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Sanfey and Halligan; Níl, Senators W. Ryan and Garrett.
Question declared carried.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
Barr
Roinn