Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 17 Dec 1980

Vol. 95 No. 6

Electoral (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 1980: Second and Subsequent Stages.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Minister for the Environment (Mr. R. Burke)

The immediate necessity for this Bill arises from the death of the former Ceann Comhairle of Dáil Éireann, the late Deputy Joseph Brennan. The purpose of the Bill is to provide a method for determining the constituency for which the outgoing Ceann Comhairle may be deemed to be re-elected as a Member of the Dáil without a contest at a general election following a revision of constituencies.

Article 16.6 of the Constitution requires that provision be made by law for the uncontested re-election of the Ceann Comhairle. The statutory provision to give effect to this requirement is contained in section 14 of the Electoral Act, 1963. Under the terms of that section as it stands at present, the Ceann Comhairle is deemed to be re-elected for the constituency for which he was a Member before the dissolution of the Dáil or, if a revision of constituencies takes effect on the dissolution, for the constituency declared on the revision to correspond to that constituency.

For this purpose it has been the practice at each revision of constituencies, to include in the relevant Bill a statement indicating which of the new constituencies corresponded to the constituency represented by the Deputy who held the office of Ceann Comhairle at the time of the revision. Earlier this year, the Oireachtas passed a constituency revision Bill, entitled the Electoral (Amendment) Act, 1980, and section 5 of that measure identified the new constituency of Donegal South-West as the constituency for which the Ceann Comhairle could be deemed to be re-elected. The death of the former Ceann Comhairle, the late Deputy Brennan, has rendered that provision ineffective.

The situation could be dealt with on an ad hoc basis by amending section 5 of the Electoral (Amendment) Act, 1980, so as to specify the constituency for which the present Ceann Comhairle may be deemed to be re-elected. However, I think there is general agreement on the desirability of dealing with the matter in general terms so that it will be possible, without further legislation, to identify the appropriate constituency in relation to any Deputy who may be elected from time to time to the office of Ceann Comhairle.

The Bill proposes to amend section 14 of the Electoral Act, 1963, so as to provide that, where a revision of constituencies takes effect on the dissolution of the Dáil, the Ceann Comhairle shall be deemed to be re-elected for the constituency which is identical with or contains all the constituency for which he was a Member immediately before the dissolution. If, however, his present constituency is divided between two or more new constituencies, he will be deemed to be re-elected for a revised constituency selected by him which contains part of the constituency for which he is at present a Member.

The Bill provides that the selection of a constituency by the Ceann Comhairle shall be made by means of a declaration in writing addressed to the Clerk of the Dáil. The Ceann Comhairle will also be required to notify the Members of the Dáil of the declaration. The precise manner of notification will be such as the Ceann Comhairle considers appropriate in the particular circumstances, but it may be expected that in the normal course he would make an appropriate announcement in the Dáil.

The Bill also provides that any such declaration shall cease to have effect in the event of the person who made it having ceased to be Chairman of the Dáil. This ensures that there can be only one such declaration in force at any time.

The Bill is a short and simple measure designed to achieve an objective on which we are all agreed. I may mention that I gave considerable thought to possible alternative ways of achieving this objective. In particular I considered whether a formula could be designed under which the appropriate constituency could, in every circumstance, be identified automatically without placing any burden of choice on the Ceann Comhairle. A satisfactory formula did not prove practicable, however, and the Bill provides for the exercise of a very limited choice by the Ceann Comhairle in particular circumstances.

Mr. P. Reynolds

This Bill would not have been introduced were it not for the death of Deputy Joe Brennan. After it is enacted the Ceann Comhairle will have the right to write to the Clerk of the Dáil and convey to him the constituency which he will represent after the next election without contesting the election. We all wish him well in his great position.

The only objection I have to the Bill is that after the revision of the constituencies the Ceann Comhairle could decide to opt for a constituency consisting of two townlands and ten or 20 people. He has the right to opt for a constituency which might be divided into four, five, six, seven, eight, nine or ten parts. If there were only six people left in a given constituency, he has the right to opt for it. I wonder how fair or how just it is that one Member of the Dáil can do that. I do not say this because the present Ceann Comhairle is a member of Fianna Fáil. It could easily happen that he was a member of the Fine Gael or Labour parties. That is the only objection I see. I do not think it is right to give such power to any individual. It should be provided in the Bill that if 50 per cent, or 70 per cent, or some percentage, of the population were left in the constituency he could opt for that.

Mr. Markey

The point I wish to make is somewhat similar to the point Senator Reynolds made. It can be argued that the option given in this Bill favours the party to which the Ceann Comhairle belongs. It can happen that the balance of support for political parties in an adjoining constituency can be upset by his opting to transfer into that constituency, if only a slight fraction of his present constituency is transferred in the revision. In other words, as Senator Reynolds said, if as little as two townlands of his existing constituency are transferred to the neighbouring constituency, he can opt to transfer to that new constituency and the balance of power in the adjoining constituency can be such that his becoming an automatic Member of the subsequent Dáil can upset it.

The Ceann Comhairle is supposed to be strictly impartial and above party affiliations or any party political leanings. This Bill gives the Ceann Comhairle an option which can weigh against the parties in Opposition at the time. It can also be argued that due to a revision of constituencies, an element of uncertainty is created for the Ceann Comhairle in deciding for which constituency he will automatically be a Member after the subsequent election. The Minister describes that element of uncertainty as the burden of choice. It is far out-weighed by the favour which can attach to his political party from the option which is given to him. I would have thought that the procedure followed hitherto would be the best practice to follow. It would have done away with this element of suspicion which any party in Opposition would have when they saw an option such as this. To that extent I disagree with the Bill.

Mr. Butler

I want some clarification. Over the years revisions of constituencies have taken place on a number of occasions. The Ceann Comhairle might represent one constituency during his term as Ceann Comhairle and after the next election he might represent a different area because of a revision of the constituencies. A small portion might go to a different constituency and, because of his political affiliations, the Ceann Comhairle might feel that they were in danger of losing a seat and decide to go into that constituency. That is all right on one or two occasions, but it could happen on a number of occasions. The constituencies may be revised every four or five years because of the way the population is moving into Dublin. In some constituencies the number of voters may be reduced and in other constituencies it may be increased. If the Ceann Comhairle has changed into a different constituency because of the revision of that constituency, he may opt again for another area and, after a while, he would be representing a different constituency altogether from the one to which he had been elected when he was appointed as Ceann Comhairle.

In that situation it would be wrong of the Ceann Comhairle to opt for a completely new constituency. I would like to have this clarified.

Minister for the Environment (Mr. R. Burke)

Senators expressed some misgivings at the fact that in certain circumstances the Ceann Comhairle would be required to make a choice of constituencies. Obviously it would be satisfactory if we had a formula under which the appropriate constituency could be automatically identified in every circumstance, thus relieving the Ceann Comhairle of the burden of choice. I have had this aspect closely examined and it is clear that there are serious difficulties in the way of devising an automatic formula which would be reasonable and satisfactory in every case and which would meet the fears and suspicions of the Opposition. For this reason the proposal in the Bill which in certain circumstances allows the Ceann Comhairle a choice within very prescribed limits is the most reasonable arrangement and ought to be accepted. We have to look at it in the light that the Ceann Comhairle, selected by the Dáil, is a very respected figure within the Dáil. No Senator or Deputy would impute to him any motive that would be less than honourable. We must work on this system of trust.

There was a suggestion in the Dáil and a relevant amendment proposed that the Ceann Comhairle would retain a substantial proportion of his own constituency in an instance of a revision. I can give the example of the man whose death has unfortunately given rise to bringing this Bill before the Dáil and the Seanad. Joe Brennan's old constituency was a five-seat constituency at the last election. With the revision it is now two three-seaters. If he had been forced to pick the larger part of his own constituency, he would have had to choose Donegal north-east, whereas every Senator knows that Joe Brennan's main base was in Donegal south-west, where he resided.

I can assure the Members of the Seanad that in the drafting of the legislation we examined every possibility for the devising of some wording or formula which would meet the points being made by the Senators. I can assure the House quite reasonably that no formula could be arrived at. We are going to have to leave the matter to the honourable people that we pick to be Ceann Comhairle of the Dáil. We must respect men whom we put into that position.

Mr. Markey

Did the Minister give any thought to having the place of residence in the particular constituency determine the matter?

Mr. R. Burke

I did. In the consideration of this formula I looked also at that point. It would be impossible to so provide, because many Members of the Dáil do not actually live in their own constituencies. To identify a place of residence as being a relevant point in this decision would not be important. It would be tying the hands of future Cinn Comhairle, men whose identity we cannot know in advance. It would be an impossible situation and the Seanad would not want that.

Question put and declared carried.

Question: "That the Committee Stage be taken today," put and declared carried.

Bill put through Committee, reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.