First of all, is it the Minister of State at the Department of Labour who will be sitting in for the Government?
Adjournment Matter. - Garda Questioning and Search Procedures.
I explained to you today that the Minister could not be here.
I understand that but I think it is funny that the Minister of State with responsibility for Justice, Deputy Fennell, should have left, not that I have any objection to the Minister of State who is here, because indeed some of this very much affects some of his own relatives and neighbours.
I would prefer to hear the Senator on the motion.
The reason I raise this matter is not so much that I feel the Garda are stepping beyond the lines of their role, but that a small number of gardaí are going beyond the role they have to play. This small section are about to bring ill-repute on the rest of the Garda which they should not have laid on them. It was not to create nuisance or such that I tried to raise this matter last week.
I tried to raise it because I believe that the rights of the citizens are being put at risk by the actions of some of these individuals. As I said at the start, I am not blaming 99 per cent of the Garda. In my opinion they are the finest men who walk our streets, but there is that section who have crept into it and who are going beyond their duties.
The two items to which I wish to refer are, the questioning of two people from Leitrim in Monaghan Garda station inside the past fortnight and a number of house searches which have taken place in South Leitrim inside the past month or six weeks. The manner of arrest of the people who were questioned in Monaghan, in my opinion, leaves a lot to be desired. Both people were arrested while they were going about their lawful business. Not alone that, but one of them was arrested by two gardaí who were in an unmarked car. What annoys me about that is that we know that out there in the streets there are at least 13 or 14 Garda uniforms which were taken in the past six months. How were the persons concerned to know that the two gardaí responsible for the arrest were strictly gardaí?
If they wished to arrest one of the individuals concerned they could have continued to tail her to her home and then arrest her. Rather than do that, they decided that they should arrest her along the side of the road and take her to the local Garda station. From there not alone did they take her from Carrick-on-Shannon Garda station to Monaghan but they took her from the Sligo division to the Cavan-Monaghan division of the Garda. I am beginning to wonder if Monaghan Garda station is about to be made the Castlereagh of the South, because we all know what goes on in Castlereagh in the North. I would hope that what I have to say today will not be taken personally by any of the Garda, because there is no doubt they were acting under orders.
One of the people taken to Monaghan Garda station was on an errand for her family. She was arrested early in the morning but her family were not informed until 5 o'clock that evening. Anybody knows that it is totally wrong that it should be left so long to notify a family. It would be different if it had been hard to find the family to notify them, but a call to the local Garda station would have taken only five minutes to make. Indeed it was not the local Garda station that notified her parents but a Garda station ten miles away from where she lives, the Garda station to which she was taken.
When these people were taken to Monaghan Garda station and questioned they were asked some very unusual questions, questions which would be more becoming to somebody who is interrogated in Northern Ireland, questions with innuendo that you were this and you were that and you know something. Those sort of questions are accusations and without foundation and without any reason to make them. That is the type of tactic that is used in Northern Ireland. I know one person who was interrogated in Northern Ireland and the very same type of questions were put. You are told that you were in such a place, that your fingerprints were found somewhere else and that your car was seen somewhere else. Those sort of accusations are not the sort of questions and accusations that should be made by gardaí. The Garda have the right to question anybody they like but they should at least be factual in their questioning.
Some of the treatment given to the people in Monaghan when they were being questioned is undesirable. There are allegations that one of those persons was beaten. That allegation I will not stand for if there is not medical evidence, but I am told there is medical evidence available if the Government, the Minister for Justice or the Garda Commissioner wish to have that evidence investigated. Both of those people are prepared to make sworn statements if need be to the Garda or to the Garda Commissioner with regard to the treatment they received in Monaghan Garda station.
The sort of treatment that they received is not what one would expect. They were questioned continually, kept awake at night, lights left on all night so that they could not sleep. They were not given food for long periods. As I said earlier, accusation after accusation were made against them — an accusation that nitroglycerine had been found in their cars and that the Garda were telephoning the DPP to arrange for a hearing at the Special Criminal Court to see if the woman would admit that she was involved. She claimed, and I believe it, that she was not involved in any subversive activity.
The gardaí who are carrying out this type of questioning are not doing anything for the Garda authorities. They are giving the ordinary people in the street reason to fear if they are to be questioned by any of those in the Special Task Force, as they are called. These special units remind me of a little organisation we had from 1973 to 1977, known as "The Heavy Gang". It looks as if they have been reborn — and we know the damage that they did to the Garda while their activities went unhindered in that period.
I ask the Minister and the Government to ask the Garda Commissioner to carry out a full inquiry into these accusations; to interview the people concerned and to ask them if they are prepared, which I am told they are, to make sworn statements of what happened to them in Monaghan Garda station. The Minister is well aware that if the confidence of the people in the Garda is undermined the amount of co-operation they will receive in the future will be greatly damaged.
One other thing annoyed me with regard to the arrests. There was an accusation that one of those arrested had made a telephone call to Canada on a certain date. We have had accusations about telephone calls and telephone tapping for the past 18 months and we have heard the Minister for Justice state that that was not the case. They could actually tell this person that she was in the company of somebody who had made a telephone call to Canada on a certain date. I would like to know is there telephone tapping going on at the moment as far as telephone calls made by certain individuals from public telephones are concerned.
In Monaghan Garda station an air-blower was left on with one of the prisoners in a cell all night but instead of blowing hot air, it was blowing cold air in order to freeze the person concerned. On release, those people were not taken back to where they had been arrested but let out in the street in Monaghan to find their own way home. That would not happen in Northern Ireland — bad as they are there, at least they will take you back to where they arrested you.
As far as the house searches are concerned, the reason I bring this subject up is that a number of houses of well known people who have no connection with any subversive organisation have been searched in the Ballinamore area. It appears that if you are known to be committed to Fianna Fáil you will be searched in that area at the moment. What has happened on those searches has left a lot to be desired. The attitude taken by the gardaí carrying out the searches was one of "We will riddle the house if you do not mind". The Minister should find out who the individuals concerned were. They were not local gardaí at all; they were gardaí down from Dublin who were not worried about the people in the area. They were not worried about the gardaí who have to live in the area after they have left. What those gardaí did was abuse of power.
I am reliably told that those gardaí searched houses at random, they did not get search warrants and they did not consult with the local Garda authorities when it came to deciding which houses they would search: they decided instead that they would search any house that they felt like going into. Normally if searches are to be carried out the local chief superintendent or superintendent will authorise them, but instead of that, the local chief superintendent or superintendent to my knowledge was not informed that these gardaí were operating within their divisional areas.
Will the Minister ask the Government and the Minister for Justice to examine this and see to it that it will not happen again? If this is allowed to continue the confidence of the general public in the Garda will be undermined. We will all suffer as a result. The Garda cannot act in any part of the country without co-operation. We heard in the House earlier this evening when members spoke of the need for co-operation. Can the Minister tell me—
I do not want to interrupt, Senator, but you will have to go through the Chair to get at the Minister.
I do not intend to go through the Chair, but verbally I will. I would like to ask him if he could tell me what action, if any, the Government would propose to take on the issues which I have raised here tonight. I am not raising them for public honour or glory. I am raising them in the fear that the co-operation which the Garda have received in that area from the local people will not be forthcoming, possibly, in the future as a result of actions such as I have outlined. The Minister of State is possibly not aware of what has happened. I have a duty as a public representative to bring it to the Minister's notice hoping that he in turn will bring it to the notice of the Minister for Justice, who in turn, will deal with the matter as far as the Garda authorities are concerned: that he will interview the people who are concerned in these questionings: that he will interview those concerned in the questioning and ask them why they adopted the sort of tactics that they adopted on these occasions. As I said earlier, this sort of action will undermine public confidence in the Garda.
I hope the Minister will convey what I have said to the Minister for Justice and that he in turn will ask the Garda Commissioner to investigate this matter fully in order that no further irreparable damage will be done to the standing of the Garda.
Senator Ellis began by saying that he had nothing but the highest regard for 99 per cent of the members of the force and that his remarks were directed only to a small section who had gone beyond their role. In subsequent remarks, he went very much further than that and he seemed to constitute the criticism of a far wider section of the force than he originally indicated he would be speaking about. In particular, I have to say that his remarks when he equated the behaviour of those members of the force assigned to Monaghan Garda station with the actions that in the past have taken place in Castlereagh are quite improper slander.
I will deal with the two issues raised by Senator Ellis: the conduct of house searches and the manner of questioning of persons detained in Monaghan Garda station. I should preface my remarks by saying that both these powers, the power to search conferred by section 29 of the Offences Against the State Act, 1939, and the power to arrest and detain conferred by section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act, are valuable weapons in the armoury of the security forces in their fight against subversion. That is recognised by subversives in this State and they have, as a result, in the past systematically attempted to discredit the Garda in the exercise of their powers under both of these sections. For that reason it behoves all of us to respond with caution to any allegations made. It also behoves all of us to see that such allegations are carefully investigated because, as Senator Ellis correctly said, it would be very damaging to the institutions of this State if conduct of an improper or criminal nature were to be carried out by members of the force.
As an experienced public representative and as a Member of this House, Senator Ellis is aware that there are well established procedures for dealing with complaints of this nature. Complaints can be made to the local Garda superintendent, the chief superintendent or to the Garda Commissioner. Senator Ellis and every other Member of the House can be assured that any such complaints that are made will be comprehensively dealt with by the Garda authorities. I would add that the Government have shown their concern in this area by their publicly stated commitment to introduce in the very near future an independent complaints tribunal.
The suggestion was made that searching was taking place in the Leitrim area on a random basis, that those searches were unauthorised and that it appeared that, whether on a random basis or not, they were directed at the supporters of the Fianna Fáil Party. I have to say that that is absolutely not so. Incidentally, it is a matter for comment that both Houses simultaneously are considering attacks on members of the Garda force at this moment.
In relation to the house searches, 15 homes in the Ballinamore area of County Leitrim, and lands adjoining them, have been searched since mid-December last year. All of those searches have been carried out on the authority of search warrants issued under section 29 of the Offences Against the State Act, 1939. All of those searches formed part of the continuing investigation being carried out by the Garda following the murders in that part of Leitrim of recruit Garda Garry Sheehan and Army Private Kelly. I should like to add that in three of those searches firearms and explosives were found on land adjoining the houses searched.
I accept, of course, that any search is an occasion of some distress and trauma for those involved, and that fact is appreciated by the gardaí who are assigned to that task, and they endeavour to carry it out as sensitively as possible. The rest of us accept, with regret, the fact that we are subjected to such a possibility and acknowledge the fact that we are subjected to such a possibility because of the campaign of subversion that has been carried on in the State for upwards of a decade.
With regard to the suggestion that misconduct and perhaps even criminal misconduct occurred in Monaghan Garda station, I should like to repeat my invitation to Senator Ellis to convey to anyone who has concern in this area the assurance that the Garda authorities, at whatever level it is brought to their notice, will investigate very thoroughly any such complaint. I would say to him, though, that an examination of the list of those who have been detained under section 30 of the Offences Against the State Act in the last month does not record the making of any complaint whatever. Perhaps for comparison purposes it is worth saying that there have been complaints in relation to house searches. On three occasions there have been such complaints and on each occasion the complaints have been transmitted to the chief superintendent involved through a public representative. When those complaints have been followed up the would-be complainant seems not to have had any complaint. In one case it was proved that the person whose house was searched said that while she certainly had not been assaulted or abused in any way by the gardaí, she was annoyed when the gardaí searched a pocket of a coat which was hanging in the kitchen. In the case of another would-be complainant, there was absolutely no complaint. In the case of the third would-be complainant, not conveyed by Senator Ellis, when the person was interviewed by the Garda the persons stated that far from any complaint to make about the manner in which they had been treated by the gardaí, they had been delighted that the gardaí had called to their house.
I should like to reiterate that any specific complaint will be investigated thoroughly by the Garda authorities. It is a matter of note that Senator Ellis, while making a number of general complaints, did not at any stage, for example, offer the House a date on which any of these incidents are said to have taken place so as to facilitate the authorities in identifying the incidents referred to.
If the Minister wishes I will convey to him the dates.
I would ask for that. The position is that any complaint made, whether arising from Leitrim-Monaghan or from anywhere else in the State, has been investigated thoroughly and will continue to be investigated thoroughly. I invite Members of the House to appreciate that the exercise by the Garda of their powers under the Offences Against the State Act is a very important part of their fight against subversion and terrorism.
The Seanad adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 7 March 1984.