Senator Browne, I understand you are in possession. Minister Fennell will be here, if you would like to proceed, Senator.
Report of Working Party on Women's Affairs and Family Law Reform: Motion (Resumed).
Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Seanad Éireann takes note of the Report of the Working Party on Women's Affairs and Family Law Reform entitled "Irish Women — Agenda for Practical Action".
—(Senator Dooge.)
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
In welcoming the report of the Agenda for Practical Action I dealt with the chapter concerning women in the home. I mentioned that we very often forget to pay justifiable tribute to those women who give up very good careers in order to stay at home with their children and whose payment would be impossible. Even the committee who dealt with this report disagreed as to how one could possibly compensate these women for the wonderful work they are doing. I can easily understand why, because you could not possible put a value on the work that is done by a woman in the home and by a mother in particular. They also disagreed on what kind of social welfare contributions would be needed to allow these women to have benefits. The cost was the biggest problem. If sympathy is any good, they have my sympathy because we do not look after them to the extent that we should because of what they are doing.
I welcome one thing that has happened for the many women who go out to work each day and also combine the role of mother and housekeeper. I welcome the fact that there are career breaks in line at the moment because even a 12 month career break can do an immense amount of good for some woman who is under extreme pressure. In praising the role of the mother who stays in the home, in no way do I take away from the excellent contribution made by women who go out to work and who do two jobs. Working with quite a few colleagues who share that difficult chore I have nothing but admiration for them because they are leading very difficult lives and we are very lucky that they manage to combine both tasks extremely well.
The committee on women's affairs dealt at length with the role of women in the home in housing estates: some of the problems they have; their feeling of isolation. Many of these housing estates, built on the edge of town, may be too far away to allow women to walk into town to do the shopping. The questions of traffic on the road and transport have been dealt with quite well in the report. The main thing needed is some action to follow that. Indeed, the question of through-traffic in housing estates is a serious problem. In many towns now we have bypasses and, while it may be a long process before we have the main traffic taken away from the towns, and while some towns may not like the idea, this certainly would ease the dangers involved, not only for mothers and fathers, but for the many children in these estates. I welcome the idea. In my own town a bypass is being planned at the moment. In the long term it will lead to quite a degree of safety in comparison with what we have at present where traffic is heavy and many children are in danger.
They also discuss the problem of many of these housing estates being rather barren places. That is changing a bit. Down in Carlow we had a new scheme opened not so long ago and it was a revelation to see how pleasant it was with mature, eight year old trees planted along the driveway and at least one tree in every garden. That took away the completely barren appearance you can get in housing estates. The people were absolutely charmed with their new housing scheme. I am sure it will give them a sense of pride, if nothing else, and encourage them to make sure that it is kept intact. They have set up a committee to have the grass kept in line and cut. If a certain standard is set for people they will continue to keep that high standard. I could not agree more with the worries expressed by the committee that some of these housing estates are so barren and give a sense of isolation and sometimes desolation that they are in the middle of nowhere. They have only blocks of houses. That phase would want to pass very quickly. It does not take that much extra expense to have some trees and shrubs and make the place look as if it is a very nice place to live.
The planning of schools should be part and parcel of any building estate. Now-days long term plans for towns invariably have what appears to be a completely unnecessary lineup of facilities. Schools are generally marked in where they will be needed later on as the town expands. That problem is dealt with in the report. It is being dealt with by most planners now. We have gone beyond the stage where it is enough to build houses and hope that everything else turns out all right. People will be walking to school; walking long distances to town. There is also the question of providing footpaths for prams and seeing that steps are sited where necessary. It shows that this committee were not just dealing with airyfairy stuff; they were dealing with actual problems faced by women in these housing estates. The whole question of house design could take a lot of time because, just as architects plan schools and hospitals and so on with no particular personal knowledge of many of these things, homes are designed invariably by men, I suppose, who see a certain amount of space giving a certain return. Women could very often have far better ideas. It is something that the committee will follow up and see to it that in the design of houses, apart from their appearance and their beauty, we are not simply getting a few more square feet out of a certain area at the expense of women in the home.
The need of women for support by the health services is very important. I welcome the whole idea that women in general will be looked after and that they will have support groups to help them. There is the question of women who perhaps will have to leave home when the family is reared and go off out into the world job hunting. It is no harm to have services available to give them advice. Many of these are highly-qualified women who have already given up good careers, and a small refresher course could bring them back into line and they could continue to play a further role in helping this country.
In general I welcome this report and I hope that many of the very excellent ideas in it and the excellent plans will be put into practice.
I am very pleased to add my thoughts to what has already been said in discussing this most valuable report. I compliment the Minister of State with special responsibility for womens' affairs and the task force or working party of an inter-departmental nature which she had with her, who brought together so much relevant information and data on women in Ireland in 1985. This is a valuable source document for all of us who are interested in this area. I like the title of it. It is a practical agenda for action, or an agenda for practical action, whichever way you look at it. It means the same thing. I hope it will act as a spur and an initiative. I said yesterday when speaking on the EC directive on equality in social matters, that recommendations which are not speedily translated into legislation are of as much use to those whom they concern as a stone parachute. I would like to see, as speedily as possible, very many of the aspirations in this report translated into practical legislative effect.
It is important and most appropriate that here in Seanad Éireann we should have a lengthy, informed and thoughtful debate on this area. It is a pity that of 60 Senators only six of us are women. It is not that the male Senators have not contributed to this debate. Indeed, I am very pleased to see that so many of them have. I have read what they had to say with great interest. But, again, it is just an illustration of a certain imbalance or lack of full, complete and total representation of Irish women in the totality of Irish society that there are only six of us here in this House. An Leas-Chathaoirleach, you are the sole female member of your political party in this House, and I of the Fine Gael Party. I feel that it is a matter of some regret. I hope on another occasion that that imbalance will be redressed.
I am aware that the Minister of State who is with us here this afternoon is tomorrow leaving for Nairobi to attend a most important international conference which will mark the closing year in the UN decade for women. I imagine that she will be taking copies of this report with her as an illustration and an indication of the situation of women in Ireland in the year 1985. I have no doubt that the view and the thoughts contained in this report will be widely disseminated and discussed and considered by the women at this conference from all over the world. Its publication is timely and I have every confidence that it will travel. It shows us what has been achieved but, more important, it indicates to us what has yet to be achieved. We are a long way off the equality that so many of us yearn for and which has been a spur to us and has drawn many of us into the political forum in the first instance.
Also attending this conference in Nairobi is Deputy Barnes, who is no stranger in the whole area of women's rights. There is also, I understand, a very representative cross-section of Irish women from the media and from many of our women's organisations. I look forward to hearing what they have to say about that conference. I feel, as in everything, there should be a two-way flow of information and I hope that all of us will be circularised and that there will be plenty of publicity engendered in the national press and, indeed, in the local press about this conference. Many of us would wish to be there and will be there in spirit. So, we must rely on the free flow of information coming back to us from the conference.
Senator Dooge made a very interesting comment in his contribution to the debate in relation to this report. I agree with him whole-heartedly. He said minor reform is not enough: what we need is a revolution. It is unusual to hear somebody like Senator Jim Dooge preach revolution. He went on to talk about its duel meaning, that it could be the spinning, or the turning of the wheel, which is perhaps the more gentle and constructive motion than a rapid turnover from one state of being to another. I would expect him to have the former in mind rather than the latter. But, of course, he is right in saying that what we need is a revolution in thought. We need it in the thought of women who will perceive their own situation as one that is capable of being changed.
More important, perhaps, we need a revolution in the perceptions that men have of women. This is the key note area and sometimes I become very despondent about this because I just do not see it happening at all. As we sink into an economic recession the bright hopes and the sparkling future that many of us had before us in the late sixties and early seventies seem to recede that little bit more and the perceptions that men have of women and that women have of themselves have become clouded by pressing economic realities. Some of the things that we would like to see happen appear perhaps less important when compared with more pressing and more urgent day-to-day economic issues.
I feel very deeply that we should never lose sight of a vision which we have and which we share in common, that is, total equality, not in the sense of being absolutely equal in every respect but of complimentarity, of having our roles co-equal and complementary, male and female one to another. Until this latter problem which I have spoken of, the perception which men have of women, is solved — and it can only be done slowly and painfully through the education system and through legislative reform — we will always have difficulty in relation to bringing about that complementarity and equality of which I have spoken.
This report, as I say, is comprehensive. It covers a great number of areas. I propose in my contribution to dwell on what it has to say about the health services. It is interesting to note that the original report of the Commission on the Status of Women did not include the area of health. Therefore, the inclusion of it in this report is an innovation and it is important because it is in the area of health and well-being of women that it is essential to lay a certain emphasis and stress. I welcome this departure in this report.
It covers many areas in relation to the health of women but one that particularly interests me — perhaps because I have had experience of it myself — is in the whole area of maternity services for women. For many women, labour and indeed the delivery of their babies is an endurance test and an ordeal which, for far too many women leaves both physical and emotional scars. We have to examine what childbirth is in the eighties and see what we can do again in the area of changing perceptions of it both among women and their spouses, the medical profession, the para-medicals and everybody who had anything to do with what should be a joyous and meaningful experience for women but which for so many is not quite that. The way women feel about childbirth and the way they are treated when they are having a baby are in some ways symptomatic of the whole condition of women in our society and it spotlights what it is that is unique about being a woman.
I feel very strongly, and it echoes this attitude in the report, that no woman should ever be reduced to a state of infantile dependence when having a baby. She should approach it in an educated, informed way and all the services that will make it possible for her to do that should be apprised of their role in that whole area. A woman is entitled to knowledge and entitled to guidance and, indeed, to the skilled help which could allow her to play her part in her labour actively and with human dignity. The thrust of the report in relation to the maternity services underlines that type of concept and as such I welcome it. It is modern thinking; it is progressive thinking; it is in tune with women of the eighties.
I have very strong feelings about ante-natal clinics. I know that staff in our maternity hospitals and in general hospitals where we have maternity services work very hard and very often in situations where they are in fact undermanned and over-stressed. But nevertheless I feel that every person who presents herself for ante-natal care should be accorded a certain dignity and should be treated not as a statistic, as one more prima gravida or gran. multip. to be seen and recorded. Attention should be paid to the emotional and psychological need and wellbeing of that woman. Again, that type of attitude is encapsulated in the report. Very often, a woman who presents herself at an ante-natal clinic suffers a certain loss of identity, a rather frightening loss of identity. She becomes just another pregnancy amongst many others sitting very often on a bench and her contact is minimal with the health care people whose sole function it is to look after her. If she is a straightforward case very often she is rushed without much ceremony through the procedures related to her ante-natal visit. That is a pity.
I also feel strongly about health education where you have a captive audience in an ante-natal clinic and this is referred to in this report. It has been my experience, as a member of the South-Eastern Health Board, which I was until last week, that the book produced by the health education bureau, the Book of the Child, Pregnancy to Four Years Old, was not being circulated in the ante-natal clinics in my health board area. I note on page 116 of the report that there is emphasis on the need for the widest circulation of this booklet particularly in the case of category one mothers. I absolutely endorse this. I had to get a notice of motion passed at the South-Eastern Health Board to ensure that that booklet which was published with public funds would be widely disseminated and circularised in the ante-natal clinics of the South-Eastern Health Board area. In fact, I came up against a certain reluctance to do just that. The reason for the reluctance was self-censorious attitude which is adopted by certain health care professionals. Because that book contained full and adequate and pictorial advice and information on family planning, certain people felt that it was not appropriate that it should be made available to those who most needed it, the mothers attending the ante-natal clinics. I am very pleased that in my small way I was able to overcome that type of attitude. The book is now available to those who would benefit from it. I regard it as outrageous that certain health care professionals should adopt that sort of attitude of censorship and would take it upon themselves to decide what was and what was not appropriate by way of health education for pregnant mothers. Obviously, I was gratified to see something which I felt so strongly about incorporated in this report.
Having a baby has the most important social consequences. Society is justifiably concerned to ensure in so far as is possible the safety of mother and baby. We must also remember that it is also a personal matter for each mother who is having a baby and that the personal and intimate aspects of child bearing are becoming more and more ignored in favour of the larger administrative issues relating to the child bearing population as a whole. It is a great pity that just when we have the advanced technology and the most streamlined procedures we seem to lose sight of the unique personal experience it is for each mother to go through the whole business of ante-natal care, labour and delivery. It is an area we must home in on and examine very closely; it is of the utmost importance. If we fail in this we will fail completely.
There is a certain tendency to advocate home births. I am interested in this but perhaps the interests of the mother and the baby in most cases are best served if a birth takes place in a fully-equipped and consultant-staffed unit of a maternity hospital or such a unit in a general hospital. I understand the emphasis on home births, but home birth I think is suitable just for some people. I wonder if we have sufficient trained mid-wives, domiciliary care and obstetricians available to give this the attention it deserves. I fear that we have not and I would hate to think that people who decided that this is the way their babies are to be born might live to regret that decision. By and large I believe the best way to have a baby is in a consultant-staffed unit.
I also note that the report dwells on the early days of motherhood and the changing role suddenly and dramatically experienced by many women who give birth. It also emphasises that our extended family network is not what it was, and that so many young mothers find themselves isolated from relations and extended family and work friends in their new situation of motherhood. As a society we have failed to give a certain adequate transitional support to young women who find themselves in this situation. It is emphasised by the way many women feel that their self-esteem and self-image have received a sudden and perhaps unaccustomed dent in the wake of childbirth.
For many women, contrary to what we see in images on television and in magazines, there is no sudden instant motherhood which attaches itself to you, and the appropriate maternal emotions do not always come on stream as they should. Very often many women feel a sense of enormous fatigue which can lead to depression and frustration in the wake of giving birth to a baby and they have great feelings of isolation. As a society we should recognise that.
I note that in the report reference is made to the necessity for having mother and toddler groups in urban areas. This is a useful and valuable suggestion and one which could be generated within communities and would not necessarily involve expenditure of large amounts of money. It would create tremendous emotional support both for the women and the families generally if there was this network of contact and support from other women. It is also very good for the socialising of young children. It is to be encouraged if at all possible. Perhaps many of our schools could be encouraged to make a room available after hours to small mother and toddler-baby groups in different communities. While these people have a great wish to get together, there is a problem of accommmodation. There should be some liaison to ensure that this accommodation becomes available to them to deal with this difficulty.
This transition from single status to that of wife and then mother is made much easier for people in a peasant society where the extended network exists. In our modern world where so many people have careers, live away from home and are removed from that kind of interaction with family and friends, the need is all the greater. We should recognise it. Motherhood in the eighties is not the sole aim and justification of the existence of women. Many people would hark to earlier times and wish that it were so. It is not, and we must deal with what is rather than being nostalgic about what was in former times.
Other areas of the report I should like to comment on revolve around caring for the elderly which is referred to in Chapter 4 on health. It falls to the lot of many women who are in their middle years, and perhaps experiencing much trauma in their own lives by way of children leaving home, the menopause, inter-personal difficulties with their spouses, to care for elderly relatives and elderly in-laws in many instances. A great number of people do this with skill, love and care and do it very well in an uncomplaining, patient and accepting way. I would commend, praise, compliment and give credit to the many thousands of women — because it is particularly the function and role of women — who do this work, but for many it is less straightforward. They experience a great deal of stress and strain in attempting to do what they would see as their duty in this regard. They are short-changed by the State because by keeping their elderly, ill, and infirm geriatrics in the home and caring for them, in effect, they save the State enormous sums of money.
A woman came to me the other day to talk about this very factor. She is caring for her own parents and her mother-in-law in a bungalow. They have built on a granny flat. She is typical of a great number of people who are involved in this kind of a situation. Her husband is a builder. We all know that industry is not in great shape at the moment. They are going through a certain amount of economic strain and she is finding it exceedingly difficult to cope with the added burden of three elderly people. She was looking for a part time job but one did not come on stream because jobs are in short supply. A social welfare worker asked her if she would consider becoming a home help to care for the elderly in somebody else's home. She was told the remuneration she would receive which is small but in the context of her own domestic budget she could have done with that money.
Not surprisingly, she asked the question: "Could that resource not be transferred to me in my own home since I am caring for three elderly relatives?" This is not the way the scheme is administered and she could not be accommodated. The scheme does not have the necessary flexibility to allow this kind of adjustment to be made. It is an interesting comment on the depersonalised systems within which we find ourselves working. Instead of going out to look after somebody else's elderly and perhaps somebody else coming in to look after hers, the necessary adjustment should have been made so that she could have been reimbursed for her goodwill in this regard.
This matter was discussed some time ago by the South Eastern Health Board and an attitude of mind prevailed that to reimburse or to pay relatives for looking after their own was in some way going against the natural order. I should like to think that everybody could take on board two elderly relatives, or three elderly relatives, or even one, and not incur any extra expenditure and not wish to be reimbursed. It is just not possible in the Ireland of the eighties for everybody to have this traditional way of looking at things. We need to sharpen up a bit and examine this area very closely. Until women speak up and point to the hardship than many of them are suffering in this area nothing will be done about it.
I look to the Minister of State for a response in relation to this. A very valuable booklet has been brought out entitled: "Who Cares for the Carers?", written by Mary Noonan; I like the title of it and wonder who does care for the carers; those who provide support and back-up for our elderly. The cost of keeping the geriatric patient in hospital is great. When we talk about transferring resources from hospital-based medicine to community care, it is an area in which we could valuably make a start and relieve the burden of so very many women.
I am concerned about a certain unevenness among the different health boards in the way in which they provide for the area of health care for women. I note that one of the recommendations in the report is that the Department of Health should undertaken an early review of the total volume of provision and need in the country and examine the inconsistency of provision within the different health boards. This is important as I feel that there should be a certain harmonisation of approach within the different health board areas.
I should like to refer to the health board funding of various services which relieve the plight and distress of women. In this connection, there is a need for family crisis centres or, as they were commonly called, battered wives' shelters but I do not like that terminology. The movement is growing throughout the country and people are seeing that it is important to have this type of crisis intervention centre for families who find themselves in difficulties. I thank the Minister of State who, from the funds at her disposal, saw that such a project in County Waterford, Oasis, received £1,000 recently. Those of us on the committee look forward to the commencement of the provision of purpose-built premises for family crisis intervention. We are very grateful to the Minister for her support in this regard and we are also grateful to the South Eastern Health Board who have subvented this project. Once again I congratulate the Minister on the report and thank her and the working party for putting it together. I wish her well on the Nairobi excursion and I look forward to having the feedback in due course.
As requested, I will be brief in my comments as I understand the Minister is anxious to reply before the adjournment for tea at 5.30 p.m. It is unfortunate that we are discussing this motion at the same time as we are discussing the motion welcoming the report of the Joint Committee on Marriage Breakdown. These two motions deal with matters which overlap. On the other hand I am pleased and I shall reserve my comments which time constrains me from making now for my speech on that motion.
One thing that strikes me is the change that has taken place in the past 20 years and one of the things that makes like worth living in 1985 is the fact that we are living in a rapidly changing society. It is interesting to reflect upon the fact that 20 years ago we were embroiled in a debate in both Houses on the then Succession Bill. People on this side of the House were saying, with the notable exception of John A. Costello, that it was wrong to give a woman her statutory legal right of succession. It was one of the big debates in the autumn of 1964. I am glad that the Bill, as then proposed, was enacted and that our party accepted ultimately the advice of John A. Costello in dealing with that measure. I make this point to indicate the type of change which has taken place in our society in the past 20 years.
In 1971 we were debating in this House the whole question of maintenance when the statutory right of a woman, and I use the word "right" purposely, was simply a maximum payment of £4 per week. Maintenance was then based on the concept of desertion. I am glad that we in this party in Government — when Deputy Cooney was Minister for Justice between 1973 and 1977 — brought in legislation which put maintenance on a proper basis and it is now based on a recognition of the rights of both partners to a marriage and to the children of that marriage, relative to total earnings of the family. I mention this to indicate the rapid change in attitudes in relation to the family and in relation to the role of the women within the family, in particular, that have occurred in the past 20 years.
The comments I should like to make relate purely to Chapter 10 of the report dealing with family law reform. I welcome the report and I commend the Minister on ensuring that the working party were brought together and that such a fine report, dealing with every aspect of the women's role in society, was produced.
There are one or two areas where it is necessary to have legal reform. First, there was the Children Bill. The introductory remarks in Chapter 10 deal with the various Departments who have responsibility in this area. I would like the Government to establish a Department with specific responsibility for law reform. The roles and the functions of the Department of Health, the Department of Justice and other Departments should be brought together. We should face reality and give one Minister total responsibility to introduce the necessary legal reforms which affect a family and which affect the woman within the family. We have not faced up to this. In this Government we have a Minister with responsibility for women's affairs, with responsibility for law reform. The time has come to establish a Department of law reform because so much needs to be done in this area. In doing this we could take on board the fund of knowledge, information and experience available within voluntary organisations and the universities. Like Building on Reality, we should set ourselves a time-scale for the enactment of legislation in particular areas. I know the Minister is committed to doing this but I would like to see certain reforms introduced in the life of this Government.
I welcome the publication of the first step in the reform of the law in relation to children. Procedures are totally inadequate. People involved in the court system, from a health board point of view, and in trying to protect children find themselves totally frustrated by the existing inadequate legislation. We have two procedures available, the place of safety order and the fit person order which are measures that do not respect the dignity of the child, the mother or the father of that child in any situation where necessary steps have to be taken. I welcome the role that the Minister of State played in ensuring that the first Bill has been published in the area of reforming the law in relation to children.
Another matter mentioned in Chapter 10 is the whole question of family courts. As a lawyer having acted for women and men in family cases, I have had the horrible experience of having to deal with my clients in draughty corridors and dirty courthouses in various parts of the country. In so far as somebody is having his or her right within marriage determined those rights must be determined and adjudicated upon in a situation that respects the dignity of both parties. That does not happen in rural Ireland at the moment. Within Dublin the situation of course is different because there are adequate family courthouses.
I also take the point made in the report in relation to the procedures which should be available within family courts. I take the point that existing procedures are totally unsuitable for dealing with family matters. While I accept that there are certain constitutional difficulties in reforming the type of procedure which we have available I never stopped thinking that it was something which should be taken on board. It can be difficult for a lawyer or for a legislator to appreciate the difficulties which existing procedures cause the parties who are in distress because within this House we as legislators, and some of us as lawyers, have great knowledge of these procedures. But somebody who comes to a court for the first time on a matter of this nature is faced with something that is absolutely frightening and very frequently as a result of that initial fright the true facts of the situation may not be outlined.
I also take the point in relation to the training of judges. We should establish, certainly within the High Court and also within the lower courts, a rota of moving or roving circuit judges who would deal specifically with family matters. While there are constitutional difficulties there it is something which should be taken on board immediately. We can legislate and we can provide the framework and the machinery but that is not going to win total acceptance unless we operate in a way that is acceptable to the person who is distressed and who we are trying to help.
I am watching the clock. One other matter I would like to mention brifely is the question of the——
I would like to intervene and ask the Senator not to confine himself unduly. I think we would be prepared to give up some of our customary break.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
I wanted to clear that because my main concern — and I think this is well known by my colleagues that I like to give Senators who participate ample time but unfortunately I indicated otherwise to Senator Durcan — was that the Minister would get her own time because of her long trip tomorrow.
As I said, I will keep most of my comments for the other debate but one other area which affects women and men and which is something I would like to see serious and immediate consideration being given to, is the old question of nullity. While we are considering the question of marriage in a broader sense and while we are looking at other aspects and other reliefs available, mainly the question of divorce, I still think we should look separately at the question of nullity. The Minister should reactivate immediately consideration of the Costello report and the draft Bill which is attached to that report. There are many people who will find relief if we have an adequate nullity procedure available in this country.
It is very interesting to bear in mind that in Britain where legislation was introduced in the mid-thirties there was a broadly based nullity procedure which as far as the civil courts are concerned is much wider than ours. We should try as far as possible to bring our nullity procedures into line with the developing ecclesiastical jurisdiction being exercised by the ecclesiastical courts of the Roman Catholic Church. Many people are getting relief there but are finding themselves in legal difficulties from the civil point of view.
I tried to cut my remarks very short and perhaps I did too much cutting. I simply want to conclude by welcoming very warmly the work which the Minister of State has done in this whole area over the past two and a half years by welcoming the report which she commissioned and which an excellent working party produced and by simply saying that this Government have two and a half years left to complete the duties and the objectives which we set out upon two and a half years ago. I would like to see that much of the legislation, certainly in the legal area which I mentioned, will be introduced and enacted before we go the the country at the end of 1987.
In concluding this debate I would like again to thank Senators for their contributions and to emphasise the importance of feed-back such as I have received, particularly in the way the Senators dealt with particular sections and recommendations of the report. The aim of this report was to review the existing situation of women in Ireland identifying the areas requiring action and to consider measures to provide more positive opportunities so that the full potential of women in our community can be realised. I believe that the report has met these objectives and deals comprehensively with all aspects of the living conditions of Irish women.
In publishing the report the Government agreed to the preparation of a programme of action in the women's affairs and family law reform area and I am now engaged in preparing this programme of action. But reforms have already happened or are in progress in a number of areas, including family planning, dental and optical scheme for pregnant wives of insured workers, the reform of the laws on illegitimacy, child care legislation and the establishment of a pilot conciliation scheme as well as a range of developments in the education area. The report represents the first public recognition by an Irish Government that women's affairs can no longer be a fringe interest of the concern of minority groups but very much part and parcel of the current political agenda. The campaign on the question of the status of women, up to 1982, has been very much carried on outside the political arena.
I believe the best results can be achieved for the future by having a strong political commitment to women's rights as well as appropriate governmental machinery for initiating and monitoring improvements in the status of women. In the light of my experience in office over the past two years and in the context of the well identified areas needing action, I am examining how my role could be strengthened to enable greater response to the women's issues with which I am so familiar and to which I have a particular commitment.
I believe there is a serious and important role to be played by both the Council for the Status of Women and the groups affiliated to that body. Substantial funding has been made available to the council by the Coalition Government and they were enabled last year to move to suitable premises in a central location. I believe that most of the women's organisations accept that they need to act as agents of change by educating their members towards more complete participation in society and where necessary act to bring pressure to bear where specific issues are involved concerning women. I put great stress on having a strong woman's voice outside the political arena and I think that the interests of women would best be served by having this continue because whatever machinery any Government may bring in to deal with changes or action in women's areas can change when that Government changes.
As some speakers have pointed out, the underlying assumption must be that women should have the right to choose between different life patterns. Society has the responsibility to enable this freedom of choice and ensure that the woman's child-bearing function does not operate unnecessarily to impede her full development as a member of the community. Traditional attitudes about the division of roles between men and women are to a large extent self-perpetuating and will only be changed gradually as changes take place in society. In some countries, however, the process has been speeded up by increased industrialisation and urbanisation, by the decreasing age of marriage and by, on average, smaller families. All these factors have affected the position of Irish women no less than their counterparts in other countries and indications are that this will continue in the years to come.
To fail to adapt patterns of recruitment, training and promotion to the life pattern of women is, I believe as unjust as if there were positive policies preventing them from availing of such opportunities. No one would suggest that all women with family responsibilities should be forced into employment or, as I have mentioned before, made to feel that there is not a real and meaningful role for them as mothers. Barriers should not be put in the way of women who work outside the home, nor should they be seen as a reserve workforce to be dispensed with in times of high unemployment. Patterns of employment must of necessity be adapted to women's needs and to give working women a greater choice during their child bearing and child rearing years, for instance, by the provision of flexible work hours, part time work and other similar measures. There must also be a greater emphasis on the provision of adequate career guidance for both young boys and girls and plans to diversify the occupation categories in which women and men have by tradition been employed. I feel these proposals are practical and possible.
The publication of this report and the debate here in the Seanad are particularly timely as this day next week, as Senator Bulbulia has said, the world conference in Nairobi will already be under way. I have the honour to lead Ireland's national delegation to the conference and present the Irish report. The main objective of the conference will be to seek a world wide consensus on the obstacles still remaining and hindering the achievement of the goals of the women's decade. Marking the end of the UN decade for women will be delegates from 140 countries and women will number in the region of 40,000 all coming together in Nairobi. It will be an occasion for some celebration. It will be a celebration that so many of the world's women are coming together to examine how world developments treat one half of the world's population. It will be a celebration that women from diverse cultures can meet in friendship and common cause. The expectation of women will be that the conference will reach a consensus on a range of policies which will influence the impetus towards the realisation of equal treatment for men and women in all our countries.
Equality does not just mean achieving legal equality for women and eliminating discrimination. It means women having equal rights, responsibilities and opportunities in every aspect of life, and this can only happen if women have the means, and the power, on the same basis as men, to allow them to take an equal role.
Question put and agreed to.
I propose that the sitting be suspended until 6.30 p.m. I do not think there would be any point in commencing the debate on marriage breakdown and then having to break for Committee Stage.
An Leas-Chathaoirleach
Before I suspend the sitting I would like personally, Minister, to wish you and your delegation a safe and happy journey.
Sitting suspended at 5.30 p.m. and resumed at 6.30 p.m.