Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 8 Jul 1986

Vol. 113 No. 15

Joint Committee on Legislation: Motion.

Mr. Ferris

I move:

That the Orders of Reference of the Joint Committee on Legislation be amended by the deletion of the existing paragraph (14) and the substitution of a new paragraph (14) as follows:

(14) That the Joint Committee, or a sub-committee appointed by it pursuant to paragraph (2), shall be empowered to take evidence in public for the purposes of paragraph (1) (d) and that the Joint Committee shall be empowered to print and publish from time to time minutes of such evidence together with such related documents as it sees fit,'."

Under paragraph 14 of the existing orders of reference, the Joint Committee on legislation were empowered to take evidence in public for the purpose of their law review function and to formulate proposals for law reform — paragraph 1(d) of the general enabling paragraph in relation to the law review function. The present amendment requested by the joint committee proposes to extend the power to take evidence in public for the purpose of this law review function, paragraph 1(d), to a subcommittee appointed by the joint committee. The joint committee requested the amendment because they felt there was a limitation on their ability to operate their law review function by way of subcommittee under the existing orders of reference under the terms of the motion, only the joint committee would be empowered to print and publish minutes of evidence taken before the subcommittee. The subcommittee will not have this power. I hope that is clear to Members. This is a request from the joint committee to set up a subcommittee to review this law review function. I understand this was discussed and agreed.

Mr. M. O'Toole

Since Senator Ferris is au fait with what happens in the Joint Committee on Legislation and knows the workings of that committee even though he is not a member, would he tell me what he means by taking evidence in public as against the system that obtains at the moment? Would he elaborate and tell the House what it is intended the subcommittee will do in the future? What does he mean by "taking evidence in public"? I would like to hear what the Senator has to say in that regard.

Mr. Ferris

I was a member of one Oireachtas joint committee and I am aware only of their functions but I read the reports of all the other committees, although I am not a member of them. I suggest that Senator O'Toole do likewise and then he will see exactly what they do. This committee suggest that there is a limitation on their ability to set up a subcommittee to receive evidence or submissions. The committee can do this but they want to extend the power to a sub-committee. If the subcommittee wish to summon somebody before them in the interests of the proper functioning of their committee, they want to have the power of the Oireachtas as set down in Standing Orders to do so. The existing Standing Orders do not permit the committee to do this. They have made a formal request, which has been agreed by another House, that this additional power be extended to them by this House. Committees function only with the approval and the agreement of this House, which answers the last question Senator Lanigan asked. If this House agrees to refer something to a special committee or to an Oireachtas joint committee, then that power is conferred, but if this House does not agree to a motion the House continues its business in the normal way. Because certain technical amendments might need to be discussed, requests may come from either House of the Oireachtas to address a particular piece of legislation in this way. That is the reason the Oireachtas joint committee have requested this amendment to their standing orders. All parties are represented on that committee in accordance with their strength in either House.

I hope the views being expressed by Senator O'Toole and Senator Lanigan will also be expressed in the committees. There is no particular advantage to any party in referring specific items to or by increasing the powers of subcommittees, because all reports come back to us for discussion and decision, and when they amend legislation, the legislation comes back to us for further discussion and amendment, if necessary, before it becomes law.

Mr. M. O'Toole

The Senator did not answer my question — he talked around it — other than making a few curt remarks that I should read the reports. Will the Senator answer me directly——

Mr. Ferris

I have answered.

Mr. M. O'Toole

Will this subcommittee hold their meetings in public? Will he define what he means by "public hearing"? I do not know how much the Senator reads or how well versed he is, but at present the joint committee meetings are not held in public. Would the Senator tell me if the public will have access to the subcommittee? We are entitled to know this. We are being asked to change the existing regulations in connection with the Joint Committee on Legislation, but we are only getting some of the facts. I am entitled to this information. Will the Senator tell me if this subcommittee will hold their meetings in public?

Mr. Ferris

I have no objection to replying to Senator O'Toole at any time. He said I seemed to be au fait with all the workings of this committee of which I am not a member. The only access I have to this committee is by reading the reports. This resolution is clear. The amendment proposes to extend the power to take evidence in public. Is that clear? Is the Senator clear? This amendment proposes to extend the power to take evidence in public for the purpose of this law review function.

Question put and agreed to.