It is intended that we take Items Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 today. For the information of the House, we were to take this week the remainder of the Fianna Fáil Motion, Item No. 10, but by agreement with the Whips that motion will be taken on the first sitting day after resumption and we will also take another motion during that week.
Order of Business.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
On the Order of Business, there are one or two points I would like to raise. First of all, can the Leader of the House indicate when in January the House will meet again? Secondly, I note that Item No. 10 on today's Order Paper has been deferred. If on the first week back we meet only for one day, we will have to insist that two Private Members' Motions be taken on that day. Thirdly, this session began with a very long and detailed discussion involving all Members of the House on questions of updating the procedures of the Seanad and making the House more efficient and more attractive, although I think we have had a very efficient session. Could the Leader of the House, at the earliest possible date in the new session, give us an account of progress to date and of any specific proposals which may be ready for discussion in the next session on this general topic. We on this side of the House feel that, unless pressure is kept up on the Government Party on this issue, real progress will not be made. We want to put on record that what we said earlier in the session was meant and we will be pressing this.
Finally, on the Order of Business, A Chathaoirligh, may I wish you a very happy Christmas and also the staff and thank all of those who made the House work so effectively during the past session.
I would like to reiterate some of the points made by Senator Manning but, in particular, the issue of Private Members' time. The Leader of the House does not have any difficulty in giving commitments here day after day about what might and might not happen. The list of commitments which have not been met and which have been given to me during this term now exceeds a page in length. I would like to stitch into the record that we have an agreement, this time from the Government Whip, that in Private Members' time on our first resuming week two motions will be discussed, one to complete the business that is there at the moment and another new one. That is a commitment that must be accepted and undertaken.
Similarly, I would welcome a discussion on the procedures of the House in the next term. Finally, in adding the voice of the Independent group to the good wishes that have been extended to the Cathaoirleach, to the staff of the House and to our colleagues on both sides of the House, might we also remember at this season that it is a time of great difficulty for a quarter of a million unemployed people, for people who are suffering from poverty——
Senator O'Toole is making a speech.
I am extending Christmas greetings to people——
This is the O'Toole style of doing it. Please stick to the Order of Business.
I am saying that those people who have had a very difficult term should also be thought of by us better off people. I am sure the Cathaoirleach will join with me in offering our Christmas greetings and best wishes to the disadvantaged in our community.
Hear, hear.
We have always done that at a later stage in the day, even before the Senator came into the House.
I am glad to hear that I have been pre-empted.
You may be just carrying out the wishes of the House.
In the atmosphere of goodwill that obviously prevails this morning, I want to propose an amendment to the Order of Business to the effect that Item No. 16, the Housing (Homeless Persons) Bill, be taken after Item No. 2. In other words, I accept that there are constitutional and other reasons why the Appropriation Bill must be passed but I can see no urgency with regard to any of the remaining business. I know the urgency of Item No. 16. Any of the Members of this House who choose to look out of the Kildare Street gates of this building will see a cardboard box in a doorway which is the home of a human being. A woman sleeps there every night of the week. That is the urgency of that issue and none of the other items is nearly as urgent. Since the Government have broken their promise to the homeless to produce their own legislation, I propose that this House takes up the issue and that Item No. 16 be taken third on the Order of Business. I move: "That Item No. 16 be taken after item No. 2".
I support Senator Brendan Ryan's request to include No. 16 on the Order of Business. I understand that today was the agreed day for it to be taken; at least, this was the day that was set. I know that it is a matter for each day's sitting to decide if it is to be included, but the Leader of the House did not even mention it. I agree with Senator Ryan that we were all expecting that this would be listed for today and in view of the small amount of progress that has been made by Governments in this area, the only way we can address it is to try to move a Private Members' Bill in this very important area which touches the point made by Senator O'Toole about the disadvantaged at Christmas. It is appropriate that the homeless should know that this House is concerned. We can show our concern for the homeless by doing something about the Housing (Homeless Persons) Bill. I am serving on a committee which at present are updating the Standing Orders and, as the House is aware, the Commmittee on Procedure and Privileges have reported progress. It is now up to the different groupings to agree to adopt the changes we have suggested to date. This committee is being chaired by the Cathaoirleach and I hope that we can attain agreement on what we have proposed. I suggest to those representing the different groups to look quickly at what we have suggested as it will help to make the business of this House more relevant.
I take exception to the remarks made by Senator Joe O'Toole in regard to commitments. He implied that this side of the House does not keep its commitments. If the Leader of the House or I have to change a commitment which we have given we endeavour to find the Whips. Senator Daly is always around but yesterday I could not find the Whip for the Indpendent group to inform him of the position. Therefore, it is most unfair of Senator O'Toole to say that we are breaking our commitments. We are not. It has always been my policy to contact the Whips on the other side of the House if there is to be any change of business, that is, if I can find the Whips of the other side of the House.
It is for the Leader of the House to reply to Senator Manning in regard to the question of progress. Some people may think that we have fallen down in regard to the progress we have made in this House but I am happy at the progress we have made since we returned in September. It is the same rate of progress as was achieved in previous years under other Governments. We have been very busy. Since we returned there have been two weeks in which we have had only one day sittings and I do not think that that is anything to complain about. We have been exceptionally good this term.
On a point of order, lest there be any misunderstanding I did say that this has been a very effective and efficient session.
Without entering into any degree of argument, whatever the commitments given by the Government side there certainly has been a problem about timescale with regard to the programme. We on this side of the House will be watching very carefully in the coming session to ensure that commitments and timescales are honoured. I do not believe there is any necessary chicanery involved but it is very important for our side that we fulfil this role. My real purpose in standing this morning is to support very strongly what Senator Brendan Ryan has said with regard to taking the homeless persons Bill. There is almost a moral obligation upon us under the Constitution, in the light of the fact that in the Constitution and in public life, Christianity is so frequently referred to and because, a Chathaoirligh, as you have mentioned this is the season of Christmas, to take the homeless persons Bill. It would be a great shame if we remained unaware of the fact that there is a large section of the population for whom there is no room at the inn.
You are now making a speech also.
There seems to be a real misunderstanding on the part of the Whip——
You have spoken already. You are a great one for the rules until they apply to yourself.
I am the second Senator to speak for a second time. Justice for one should be justice for all. That should be noted.
The other was a point of order.
This is also a point of order. There seems to be a misunderstanding about what I said. I got a solemn commitment from the Leader of the House that the Extradition Bill would be taken in this session but it has not. What I said when I first rose to speak was that I was glad that this time a commitment had come from the Government Whip, whose commitments have always been honoured. Up until yesterday afternoon the agreement as I understand it was discharged in terms of——
We cannot have a debate on this matter now.
When we resumed after the summer recess we paid great compliments to you, a Chathaoirleach, for the work you had done during the break in regard to the added comforts that we enjoy. However, what I have found during this session is that the Chamber lacks adequate ventilation. Perhaps, during the coming break you may be able to do something about that. Those of us who find that that is a problem may leave the Chamber but there are those, including your good self and the staff, who cannot. It will be very unfair to ask the staff to put up with the same problem through a further session. I have found that there tends to be a build up of stale air and I noticed it again when I walked into the Chamber this morning. There is inadequate ventilation in the Chamber and perhaps something can be done about it.
We have had a lot of trouble with the ventilation and they are still trying to deal with this problem. We are all well aware of the problem, particularly those of us who have to put in long stints in the House. I call on the Leader of the House to conclude.
I agree with the Senator McMahon as regards the deplorable conditions we have to work under in this House and I do not mean physical comforts such as seating. There is a problem as regards the air conditioning in this Chamber. This must make conditions difficult for the staff particularly who have to be present at all times. We will have to take up this problem with the powers that be. In answer to Senator Manning, in the new session we will be sitting two days a week. We will take whichever private motion comes up plus the Fianna Fáil motion in the first week of the new session.
The updating of the procedures of the Seanad is proceeding satisfactorily. The sub-committee of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges have been meeting on a regular basis and readjusted draft Standing Orders have been prepared. These will be discussed within the groups as soon as the groups can get together. When agreement has been reached within the groups the readjusted Standing Orders will lead to a more efficient Seanad, I will not say a more relevant Seanad but there will be opportunities to debate matters of urgent public interest and they may be taken under section 29.4 of the present Standing Orders. It will be up to the groups to meet as soon as possible between now and the time we reassemble. If agreement can be reached an early meeting of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges can be arranged and the new Standing Orders can then be implemented. As regards the commitments given to Senator Joe O'Toole, he did make the remark to me that "Verbal commitments given to me are not worth the paper they are written on". All that I would say——
Given by you.
——is that I totally agree with him.
Refreshing honesty.
I take exception to the remarks made by both Senator Norris and Senator Brendan Ryan about the concern which this side of the House and other Members of the House have for the plight of the homeless. We are concerned about the homeless and about all the under-privileged in our society. We have tried to express that concern at all times in as strong a manner as possible. Senator Ferris said he expected the Bill to be taken today but as a Member of the House for a time, he knows that the date given for the Bill was the earliest date it could be taken. That was explained to the House when I agreed to have that Bill ordered for a certain date.
I said that.
The Government will always have concern for the homeless and have had concern for them. The Government will produce a Bill which will give due cognisance to the plight of the homeless and be capable of being implemented. It is my proposal that the Order of Business should be Nos. 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.
I am sure that Fianna Fáil——
I must point out to Senators that when the Leader of the House has replied to the debate on the Order of Business that concludes the matter.
Will the Chair permit me to say a few words in response to the remark by the Leader of the House on the Bill dealing with the homeless?
The rules of the House state that the Deputy cannot make a comment. I must ask if the Order of Business is agreed.
I have moved an amendment to the Order of Business.
Is there a seconder for Senator Ryan's proposal, that Item No. 16 be taken after Item No. 2?
I second that proposal.
Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 16; Níl, 19.
Tá
- Bulbulia, Katharine.
- Daly, Jack.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Hogan, Philip.
- McCormack, Padraic.
- McDonald, Charlie.
- McMahon, Larry.
- Manning, Maurice.
- Norris, David.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Toole, Joe.
- Reynolds, Gerry.
- Ross, Shane P.N.
- Ryan, Brendan.
Níl
- Byrne, Sean.
- Cassidy, Donie.
- Cullimore, Seamus.
- Eogan, George.
- Farrell, Willie.
- Fitzgerald, Tom.
- Fitzsimons, Jack.
- Haughey, Seán F.
- Kiely, Dan.
- Kiely, Rory.
- Lanigan, Mick.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- Mullooly, Brian.
- Mulroy, Jimmy.
- O'Callaghan, Vivian.
- Ó Conchubhair, Nioclás.
- O'Toole, Martin J.
- Ryan, William.
- Wallace, Mary.
Tellers: Tá, Senators B. Ryan and J. O'Toole; Níl, Senators W. Ryan and S. Haughey.
Amendment declared lost.
It is a particularly disgraceful performance by the party——
Senator Ryan——
(Interruptions.)
It is a thundering disgrace that that party — I am sorry, a Chathaoirligh. This House apparently is incapable of responding to the needs of the most deprived.
(Interruptions.)
They are a disgrace to what they stand for.
Senator Ryan——
I have had too many promises.
I will have to suspend the House.
This is the end of the International Year of the Homeless and that party there have betrayed them.
Senator Ryan, please resume your seat.
I cannot resume my seat. I was given promises. Promises were made and have been broken.
Senator Lanigan, I am afraid you will have to name Senator Ryan.
They have disgraced everything. They have broken a promise they gave.