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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 13 Apr 1989

Vol. 122 No. 9

Judicial Separation and Family Law Reform Bill, 1987: Committee and Final Stages.

Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Amendment No. 1 not moved.
Section 2 agreed to.
Sections 3 to 30, inclusive, agreed to.
SECTION 31.
Amendment No. 2 not moved.
Section 31 agreed to.
SECTION 32.
Amendment No. 3 not moved.
Section 32 agreed to.
SECTION 33.
Amendments Nos. 4 to 7, inclusive, not moved.
Section 33 agreed to.
Sections 34 to 46, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
Bill reported without amendment and received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass."

I would like to say a brief word. First, I would not like the impression to go out from here this morning that this Bill has passed through this House today on the nod or that we are in any way casual about the matters concerned. The reality is that this Bill has received very wide and searching examination of all its sections in a special committee of the Oireachtas. This Bill probably has taken up more parliamentary time than almost any other Bill in the lifetime of the current Dáil. I would like to put on the record very firmly that the Bill we have here today has been very carefully examined and scrutinised and has been referred back to the other House on a number of occasions.

This Bill is the first Private Members' Bill to be enacted in almost 30 years. It is not in the normal run of Private Members' Bills. It is a very substantial Bill which is aimed at addressing a very significant and major problem in our society, that of marital breakdown. It is a subject upon which in the past it has been almost impossible to get all-party agreement. Indeed, there were very many people at the beginning of this session of the Oireachtas who doubted that it would be possible to get all-party agreement on a matter of this kind.

This Bill originated from Deputy Alan Shatter. It was debated in the other House at great length. Finally, after a series of lengthy, detailed discussions it was possible to find agreement on the issues which divided the Fine Gael Party and the Government. In saying that, I want to put very clearly on the record the appreciation of those in my party to the attitude of the Minister for Justice who had, as his objective, the objective of Deputy Alan Shatter. That was to tackle this problem in a way which would find as wide an acceptance as possible and which would lessen the trauma of marital breakdown and remove, as far as possible, much of the great hardship and suffering which attaches to that experience in so far as the law can address these particular problems.

The fact that we are here today on what is an historic day for the Oireachtas is something which reflects credit on Deputy Alan Shatter, the Minister and on all parties in both Houses. It is a benchmark of the growing maturity of our society that we can now face up to the problems which in the past were almost beyond the realm of open, reasoned, fairmined discussion. It is interesting that in the course of this debate people who may have begun by doubting the goodwill or the bona fides of those whose points of view opposed theirs have ended the debate accepting that there was a point of view on all sides.

This Bill, as it is now leaving this House today to go to the President for his signature before it becomes law, is not as ideal as I would have liked it or as my party would have liked it. It is not as ideal as the Minister would have liked it but it is, I believe, the most significant measure of reforming legislation in this area of marital breakdown since the foundation of the State.

As well, this Bill establishes certain principles and guidelines. The experience of this Bill in practice should be monitored very carefully by all politicians, by both Houses of the Oireachtas and by the Department of Justice to ensure that if there are any defects in this Bill, or if there are any ways in which it can be improved, that we will have no difficulty in tackling these particular problems with a certainty that at least the debate can be open and comprehensive.

Having made those points, I say that this Bill offers hope and some sort of better way for the very many thousands of people who find themselves, for whatever reason, in a situation of marital breakdown. This Bill, with its simplified court procedures, with its more just and equitable systems, with the elimination of much of the name calling and allocating of blame which has been an integral part of our system up to now, will at least lead to a more civilised and a more humane way of tackling this problem.

In conclusion, I want once again to put on record the debt of both Houses to Deputy Alan Shatter, whose Bill this was and who guided it through the other House. Equally, I want to put on the record our gratitude to the Minister for Justice whose willingness to listen, to argue his case and, ultimately, to compromise in the interest of getting the best legislation possible has also brought us to this stage today. I hope the example they have given and that has been given to this House in the passing of the legislation will be something which we can follow in other legislation which is not of a party political kind, where we are dealing with the problems of real people and where there are real issues which can be sorted out in open debate. This will be an example that we can do this without any party suffering any loss of face. In fact, the real winners today are the people whose problems can now be addressed, the legal profession which now has a new framework within which to operate in this particular area and, I believe also, the Houses of the Oireachtas. I believe that what we have done today will be warmly welcomed and applauded by all fair-minded people outside.

I cannot join in this paean of congratulations. It seems to me that the passage of this Bill through both Houses has been unfortunate. I have to say this because 60 years ago a distinguished representative of my tradition made a heartfelt plea for divorce which at that stage was ignored. This Bill, which I cannot in conscience vote for, is a half measure, and a half measure that has only very grudgingly, after a long time and in a mutilated form been accepted by this Government. I merely wish to say that I wish to dissociate myself completely from a congratulation which is inappropriate, misplaced and does not represent the facts, as will be clear to anybody who studies the record of both Houses.

I am very happy to see the Bill go through in its present form. Before we conclude I should like to take this opportunity to commend, as I have done in the other House, the initiative of Deputy Shatter and the Fine Gael Party supporting him in having the Bill published, as well as the work that he and others put into reaching agreement with me on a range of matters which I felt needed to be met by way of amendment to the Bill. All those efforts, I am glad to say, have resulted in a Bill which meets my concerns. It is in my view a very worthwhile Bill.

I am satisfied that the Bill provides for all the circumstances in which a decree of judicial separation should be granted and that the comprehensive powers given to the courts will enable the best possible protection and financial security to be given to a spouse and dependent children following a judicial separation. I also wish to commend Senator Manning for the role he has played in steering the Bill through this House.

In conclusion, I repeat an important point. While the Bill provides for substantial changes in the law on judicial separation, the fact remains that out of court settlements will, for the most part, be the most appropriate procedures for spouses who wish to formally separate. It is generally better for couples to come to mutually satisfactory solutions for a separation rather than involve the courts. The Bill, indeed, recognises that point by encouraging spouses to avail of counselling or mediation and my thanks to all those who have helped to have this legislation enacted.

On a point of order, I would like to dissent to be recorded for myself, but I do not put the House through the——

You can record a dissent from the Bill. I was going to ask if Fifth Stage is agreed?

On a point of information, I am confused at the speed with which things have proceeded in the last 15 minutes. Where are we now?

We are concluding Fifth Stage of the Bill.

Can I make a general point?

Question put and declared carried, Senator Norris dissenting.
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