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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 7 Mar 1990

Vol. 124 No. 5

Ábhar ar an Athló. - Ainmniú Limistéir Eolaiochta i gConamara.

Tá mé anseo anocht le labhairt faoi ábhar an-tábhachtach go deo, ábhar go bhfuil an-spéis, ní amháin ag muintir an iarthair inti, ach ag muintir na hÉireann fré chéile. Is i lár na seachtóidí a thosaigh an chaint ar an ábhar seo ar a dtugtar ASI, Areas of Scientific Interest, agus is é an Foras Forbartha a bhí ag plé leis. Anois is é Oifig na nOibreacha Poiblí atá ag plé leis.

There is no dispute in my mind regarding the importance of the principle of outlining areas of scientific interest. An overwhelmingly large majority of people would concur completely with the idea of ASIs. The conflict has arisen because of the manner in which research and updating is being carried out. Thousands of privately owned acres of land have been designated by the OPW Wildlife Service as areas of scientific interest. Such designation has caused havoc among the poor farmers especially in the west of Ireland and in particular in Connemara. I and other people who have done some study on this believe that the manner in which designations of private property — I am not talking about State property or any multiple of State property, I am talking about private property — take place by the Office of Public Works is ultra vires and constitutes an act of great injustice against many small farmers in Ireland, and especially in Connemara. Too many small farmers have suffered as a result of this. It is about time this Government did something about it, something pragmatic, something that would alleviate the desperate situation that is now being experienced by small farmers, particularly in the west.

For example, I know five Connemara farmers who between them have 2,005 acres of a mountain bog. Approaches were made to those people by private investors who wanted to buy 800 acres for afforestation. The price was almost agreed on. It was hovering between £200 and £250 per acre. Eight hundred acres at £250 is £200,000. Those five farmers, smallholders with nothing only that type of land and bog and mountain which would not feed a snipe, had an opportunity of bettering themselves and their families by an income which would only come their way once in a lifetime. While negotiation were proceeding the proposed buyers checked to find out the level of grant that would be obtainable for afforestation. Lo and behold, they were told that no such money would be available because the land, the mountain or the bog which they intended to buy was now deemed an area of scientific interest. The people themselves, those five farmers to whom I have spoken individually, never heard of the term ASI, never heard of an area of scientific interest. Their land had been designated by a segment of this State known as the Office of Public Works. Without a by your leave, without consultation, without notification, without any talk of compensation, their land had been devalued overnight to the tune of £200,000. If that is not interference of the first order in private ownership of the citizen I am a Dutchman. It is despicable in this day and age that we have a section of this Government known as OPW going around this country putting circles around areas of farmland and private land and people not knowing this has been done.

I have done some research into this. I find no legal basis in European law or in Irish law for such designation. I firmly hold that the Office of Public Works and their Minister are not empowered to devalue private property by designating them as areas of scientific interest without enabling legislation to do so and without suitable legal compensatory arrangements having been put in place. We have a book here which was distributed by the Minister for the Environment a few weeks ago. On wildlife habitats there is one sentence which is very relevant to what I am speaking of. He says nonchalantly without any leithscéal de chinéal ar bith don rud atá déanta anuas tríd na blianta ó 1975: "In future areas of scientific interest drawn up by the Wildlife Service will be fully publicised. The views of landowners whose lands are affected by such areas will be fully considered and amendments to the Wildlife Act due for introduction later this year will deal with this matter further." Sin dar liomsa ag dúnadh an doras nuair atá an capall imithe — closing the stable door when the horse has bolted. Between 1975 and 1990 about 1,600 areas have been circled by the Office of Public Works as areas of scientific interest and now, after all that time, they are saying in future they will talk to the people who own private land. There is no great praise due to the Office of Public Works for being so benign to the poor farmers of the west. Unfortunately, though legislation is not retrospective, when the Wildlife Act of 1976 is eventually amended to take cognisance of these facts, it will apply only to future designations. What is to happen to all the private land designated since the mid-seventies which will be outside the ambit of the amended legislation? Who will compensate the small farmers affected between 1975 and 1990, or whenever the Act as amended becomes operable. Who will compensate them for something that happened to their property without their being told about it or consulted and without any compensation being given to them? Who will compensate the Clifden farmer, for example, who is making some of his land or bog available for an airport and who found out when the planning process was going through that it was suddenly in an area of scientific interest? He was never told about it, he never knew about it and now he is out of his £30,000.

The Office of Public Works insist on telling me and other people that they are doing no harm to the small farmers in the west. It is a shame that such harm is being done and has been done over the last 15 years. Who will compensate the five farmers I just spoke about for the £200,000 out of their pockets? Who will compensate the forest farmer in Moycullen who planted his trees and when he went to collect his grant was told: "You will get nothing because your land is an area of scientific interest"? He knew nothing about it. He was told nothing about it. He was not consulted. Who is going to compensate Údarás na Gaeltachta who purchased 1,200 acres of bogland for afforestation and now they are told they can do nothing with it? Who is going to compensate the 12 owners in common on the Aran Island who were making a commonage available for a golf course and who have been told it is an area of scientific interest and they cannot sell it? They cannot get anything for it. Still the Office of Public Works insist in discussions with me that they are not doing any harm to the poor landowners. Who will compensate a person like Harry Conroy, for example, over in Letterfrack?

Acting Chairman

I would ask the Senator to refrain from naming individuals in the House.

Maith go leor. This person who shall be nameless now, has been done out of £6,000 in premiums for his sheep at the behest of the Office of Public Works because his land is bordering an ASI area. He is being accused of having his sheep wandering into land now covered by an ASI. He is a farmer who has a proud tradition, as had his family before him since 1906, and had the use of that land and of that mountain.

I am now asking the Minister here present to have this deplorable situation remedied once and for all. There is only one way he can do that — and it is like recalling the troops back to barracks — he has to go back to 1975, when this dastardly thing started, and he has to remove every one of those circles that have been put on private land without the knowledge and without the consent of the farmers involved. All those marked areas must go. Amend the 1976 Act immediately, lay down the rules about designation and about what a person can do and what a person cannot do.

I know this is the Green Presidency period and I do not wish to be seen as, or to be branded an anti-environmentalist because I am not. I am sure the Taoiseach does not want to see his Presidency being tarred by an accusation of there being blatant acts of natural injustice against landowners just for the sake of environmental reactitude for which there is no basis in law. The dichotomy which has arisen between the needs of environmental protection and the economic welfare of local communities should be clearly addressed and put into perspective by amending the Wildlife Act. ASIs do not exist in law.

I will be calling on the Minister to tell me the name, the year, the section or the subsection of any Act he wants to produce which gives legal effect to interfering with people's land without their knowledge or their consent. This has to be rectified and it is not an easy thing to do because we have a balance between progress and conservation. We have to address ourselves to it before more bureaucratic bungling sets people at one another's throats.

I was friendly with a great number of people in Connemara before the controversy about the airport started. I numbered them particularly in my friendships. Unfortunately, because of the draconian methods employed by the Board of Works, who are acting without the help and aid of the law, friends are being turned into adversaries. If the Board of Works conducted their business properly and if they had recourse to the 1976 Wildlife Act there would have been no controversy whatsoever about the Clifden airport. None whatsoever. If the Board of Works people told the Minister that they could not operate the 1976 Act when they were addressing nature and matters of ASI, then the Act would have been repeated, would have been updated to take cognisance of those facts.

I have teased out the 1976 Act, I have gone through it thoroughly and I have friends in the legal profession who have looked at it with me. I repeat that nowhere in that Act is there an iota of evidence to suggest that the OPW have power to designate private property as an area of scientific interest. I am asking the Minister in his reply to point out to me what section of the Act gives power to him and to his servants to be involved in ASIs without having an enabling Act to do so. The Minister is bound to justify all the functions of his Ministry and those of his servants by way of report or relevant legislation. The only legislative bible open to him to act on, chapters 2 and 3, pages 2075-2094, of the 1976 Wildlife Act.

Acting Chairman

The Senator has two minutes.

I have plenty to say on this matter, but unfortunately, I will not have time to say it. I am asking the Minister one thing and one thing only. Will he tell me why the Office of Public Works can designate private property without having any recourse to the law? No matter what the Minister does, there is a statutory obligation on him to do so under an Act of Parliament. Unless he gives me that answer and can produce evidence to substantiate his reply, I will have to be very strict and ask him to resign. This subject has been mentioned in the Dáil, question after question raised and evasive answers given. I want just one question answered. Under what authority can the Minister interfere in the private ownership of private land? Under what Act is he working? It certainly is not the 1976 Wildlife Act. I have to insist that the Minister in his reply tell me under which Act — chapter, number and section — the Office of Public Works can designate areas of scientific interest without consultation, notification or any thought of paying those people for the losses incurred by them.

Ar dtús, mar a dúirt an Seanadóir Ó Foighil, thosaigh an obair seo timpeall 1970 agus is é mo bharúil go bhfuil sé fíorthábhachtach go leanfaimid ar aghaidh leis an obair seo, go mórmhór sna háiteanna go bhfuil sé ag caint mar gheall orthu.

I want to mention very specifically that the areas of scientific interest are areas of special interest for their fauna or flora, either as individual species or as communities or eco-systems. These are areas where rare or protected plants or animals occur. They are part of the nation's natural heritage. The areas of scientific interest would include certain woodlands, peatlands, fens, dune systems, marine areas, coastal areas, grasslands and indeed, some very important bird sites and habitants. These areas are indentified, not designated, and there is quite an amount of confusion in people's minds between areas which are identified as areas of special scientific interest, and areas which are designated and have been so under law. The law in relation to designation of which the Senator, no doubt, is fully aware, is the Wildlife Act, 1976, and section 15 sets out very clearly the scientific interest. I do not want to delay the time here by going through that.

I asked the Minister a question, and he must answer. Will he please tell me the Act under which he can designate an area?

Acting Chairman

The Senator had 20 minutes. The Minister now without interruption, please.

He is not answering the question I asked. What good is there coming here if he will not answer the question?

Acting Chairman

Will the Senator resume his seat? The Minister without interruption.

He will have to answer the specific question I asked him. Under what Act is he working?

Acting Chairman

Senator, please resume your seat.

We all have our rights here.

Acting Chairman

Will the Senator resume his seat?

I want the Minister to give me a categoric answer. I asked him three times during my speech to quote the law under which he is taking land from the poor people of Connemara without telling them anything about it, without knowing anything about it?

Acting Chairman

Will the Senator resume his seat.

It is not fair. If he gives me a categoric answer I will have no problem.

Acting Chairman

I adjourn the House until 10.30 a.m. tomorrow morning because of disorder.

That is a great way to get over it, a mighty way.

The Seanad adjourned at 8.35 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 8 March 1990.

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