Horse Breeding Bill, 1985: Second Stage (Resumed) and Subsequent Stages.

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

Professor Raftery

The purpose of this Bill, as was pointed out by the Minister when we last discussed it, was to repeal the Horse Breeding Act of 1934. That is an Act which required all non-thoroughbred stallions to be licensed and the Minister felt there was no need for this any longer. In fact, he pointed out that Bord na gCapall had recommended that we get rid of licensing of stallions. I would point out, however, that Bord na gCapall is now gone out of existence and there is coming into being, if not already in being, a Horse Advisory Committee. I think it would have been appropriate had the Minister delayed the repeal of this licensing of stallions until we get the opinion of the Horse Advisory Committee.

The situation, of course, with regard to horses has changed radically since stallion licensing was introduced back in 1934. The total number of horses has dropped from about half a million down to relatively low levels in this country today. In fact, although we have a very great reputation overseas for horses, particularly for sport horses, we do not in terms of numbers match up with many of our continental counterparts. The reputation of our horses, of course, is based primarily upon the Irish draught horse, and the Irish draught mare crossed with thoroughbred stallions gives probably the foremost sport horse in the world today.

Ireland produces at present time about 3,500 foals per annum. That used to be about 10,000 or more not so very long ago. By contrast, the Germans produce 35,000 foals of this category; Holland about 10,500; France about 8,500; Belgium about 4,500; Denmark about 4,000 and we — the ones who have supplied most of the stock for this breeding — are back, as I say to about 3,500 foals per annum. The time has come to have a new look at the horse breeding sector particularly in the light of the fact that it could play, and I am confident will play, an important part in an alternative enterprise on farms when farmers are having such difficulties with traditional enterprises due to surpluses.

I note a number of points in the national programme for the development and servicing of the non-thoroughbred horse industry. In this it said that the basic objective is to increase the output and improve the quality of horses for use in the many types of equine sports and activities but particularly showjumping. I think everybody would have to agree with that objective. It goes on to say that the production of Irish sport horses has been traditional rather than based on strictly commercial criteria. That is quite true indeed. It goes on further to point out how it might be a very useful alternative farm enterprise. It makes the point, and rightly so, that we have a dwindling number of horses, and particularly Irish draught mares, and something has got to be done because this cross between the Irish draught mare and the thoroughbred stallion is giving, as I said probably the best sport horse in the world today.

As an attempt to encourage the breeding of pure bred Irish draughts I am glad to note that the Government introduced a £400 grant to be paid on each pure bred Irish draught foal. The purpose of this was to try to bridge the income gap. In other words, the value of the Irish draught foal was about £400 less than the value of the Irish draught thoroughbred cross. I am delighted that this new grant is coming in in 1990 and hopefully it will do much to encourage the breeding of Irish draught mares to Irish draught stallions with the view to building up the stock of Irish draught mares in the country.

I am pleased, too, to note that 1989 saw the introduction of the headage payments for horses, or that horses became eligible for headage payments — I am referring, of course, to the non-thoroughbred sector here again — and the grants are available for housing, the storage of feed, the storage of manure and so on for all horses in the disadvantaged areas other than the thoroughbred horses.

With regard to the Irish horse register, the report says that accurate identification of individual animals and complete and accurate recording and registration of pedigree and performance data are fundamental to successful breed improvement, marketing and trade. That is absolutely true. The only way we can make any real progress in probing the genetic merit of these sport horses is to have accurate data and performance testing of the animals. That is the way we must proceed. The Minister has, therefore, decided that the register will be maintained by the Department of Agriculture and Food. The authenticity of the register will be maintained it says, and the standards and procedures will be followed for the registration and documentation of horses which will allow the register to be approved under proposed European community zootechnical legislation. I can only agree that this is a move in the right direction.

It goes further on and says that the requirement that these grants that were referred to already, will be paid only on registered animals and this will have the beneficial effect of encouraging people to have the horses on the register. In that way we will get a reliable data base, which can be used as the source of information for improving our breeding stock. Of course it will cover not only Irish draught horses but also Connemara ponies etc. All of these are important in the sport horse breeding industry. There are very many other things that I would like to see in relation to this important industry, which must be promoted. A lot has to be done in relation to the preparation of selling, marketing our horses properly and so on.

I must refer to the proposed EC legislation to enable intra-Community trade in horses, which is being drafted. The object of it is to liberalise trade in horses between Community countries and not only horses but horse semen, horse embryos and so on. We must take a great interest in this since we are very large exporters of horses.

In relation to these proposals I want to make a few points. The first proposal provides for the approximation of the animal health protection rules to be applied in the member states. The removal of the existing disparaties will help to foster intra-Community trade in horses. That is important for us because we are interested in exporting horses. It will help to foster intra-Community trade in horses while keeping certain animal health requirements designed to avoid the spread of disease. It will also provide for Community arrangements in respect of imports of horses from third countries. That is a rather important one which I will come back to later.

The second proposal lays down basic rules intended to remove disparaties in member states due to differences in policy as regards breeding and rearing. That has some significance to, but is probably not as important as the first proposal. This proposal covers horses, their embryos, semen, ova, etc. in a single market. It aims to prevent unfair practices and to liberalise the trade in horses, in semen, ova and embryos.

The third proposal in the directive aims to remove disparaties in equestrian competition rules which may constitute a barrier to intra-Community trade in horses. Equestrian competitions include horses, horse racing, show jumping, eventing, dressage and events for horse drawn vehicles. This is a step in the right direction, too, that any disparaties which would cause any difficulties in intra-Communtiy trade should be removed.

One final point has to do with at lest one disease that is found in two Community countries but which is, fortunately, not found in Britain and Ireland. I refer to African horse sickness. This is an infectious disease of equines transmitted by biting midges and flies and very often has a high fatality rate. As things stand, we know this has occurred in Spain and Portugal. We have to ensure, whatever about intra-Community trade, that we try to avoid getting that kind of disease into our country when it has such a high fatality rate and indeed would damage the good reputation of the health of our horses.

I am also glad to note that the Minister intends that Teagasc would take initiatives to develop the advisory, educational and training programmes to improve the fertility breeding merit, feeding and husbandry of Irish sport horses. This is a very important aspect of the business if it is to become a successful alternative farm enterprise. He also has ambitions to improve the breaking, training and marketing of horses. This is equally important because there is no point in having a good product if you do not market it properly and present it to the best of your ability to prospective buyers. He goes on to refer to the needs for farriery. Of course we all know that the village blacksmith is largely extinct today and, therefore, there is need to have a supply of people who are capable of looking after horses in that respect.

In general I support the aims of the Minister in trying to build up the sport horse industry in the non-thoroughbred sector. The aims are most laudable. With regard to getting rid of the necessity for licensing horses, I do not shed any tears about that I can assure the Minister but I would have thought it would be appropriate if the Minister had withheld making that decision until the new Horse Advisory Committee had a chance to give their view on the matter.

Mr. Hourigan

I, too, support the measures which this Bill suggests should be introduced. On the point that Senator Raftery raised perhaps it might have been more appropriate if the final recommendations from the horse committee, which I understand are working in conjunction with the Minister's office, had made their report. It would have been more appropriate to have that final recommendation available before introducing a Bill. The Bill basically suggests the abolition of the licensing of the non-thoroughbred horse, the sport horse. I believe, provided matters relating to confirmation etc. are fully taken into account that this is a better approach than just licensing.

When we talk about the half bred or sport horse very often it is not quite clear what we are talking about. The half bred horse, ideally, is a cross between the Irish draught and the thoroughbred. Some experts will, in fact, suggest that it is desirable that the dam be the Irish draught and that the sire be the thoroughbred. That is a matter of opinion but we are basically talking about that cross. I particularly mention this factor because Irish draught mares are becoming a scarce commodity. I believe there should be more concentration in this whole area to ensure that we do not run out of the reservoir of Irish draught basic breeding stock.

As a country we have earned for ourselves an excellent reputation in the whole area of sport horses. I believe that we can develop that reputation even further and gain handsomely from it in the context of the export of horses at very competitive prices. There is no doubt that we need to have performance testing introduced. Conformation is very important but we must find out what the progeny of any sire are capable of doing if we are to continue the usage of that sire — indeed the same applies to the dam — which would be responsible for the production of a lot more horses per annum or on a per time basis. We have established a position here in Ireland as a producer of very high class horses for use in various sports and leisure activities throughout the world.

Senator Raftery referred to the slot that the half bred horse could fill in the context of farming. This is a very important matter because with the need for diversification in farming and with the worsening position of many areas of farming activities and the restrictions on the production of milk, cereals and lesser return from beef, the Irish half bred can fill a very important need for our country and for many individual farmers. In former times most farmers kept horses and these horses performed the dual activity of doing farm work and producing some top class hunting-type animals when they were crossed with the thoroughbred. At present, with the introduction of mechanisation of various sorts horses are no longer used for farm work. Therefore, the person keeping horses does so entirely from the point of view of gaining a return from the production of a good sport horse which he hopes to sell either on the home market or abroad after a few years, either trained or untrained.

In the past 20 years or so the main outlet for our horses has been show jumping, eventing, dressage, showing at various shows and hunting. We must remember while we have produced a lot of excellent horses that are top of any league, we have also produced, and continue to do so, very second and third rate animals. We must be mindful of that and must, so far as we can, reduce the balance of the very good horse in terms of quality and performance or increase the number of horses that are good and performing well and reduce the number that do not. We have produced many horses which have no value apart from their slaughter value and this is a very limited value. I suggest we need much in-depth screening in our whole breeding process and we must do whatever is required to achieve effective selection and correct breeding.

The Irish draught mare is the basis on which we can build an efficient sport industry. The animal today is a lighter boned animal but not that much lighter boned than the mares of 20 or 30 years ago when the pulling of machines and so on was such a vital factor. In the past there was a lot of haphazard breeding. The farmer just brought his mare to the nearest stallion for convenience purposes and it did not really matter what the progeny was. There was no real planning put into the exercise. In the years gone by the overall horse population was such that sufficient numbers resulted from the total breeding programme to encourage foreign buyers to visit and purchase young stock from farmers directly here in Ireland in most cases or through a third party. There were many more horses so by the law of averages the likelihood was that the buyer, who was very precise about what he or she wanted, would find the animal he wanted to buy. Now, with fewer horses we have to be more vigilant in ensuring that we produce the right type of animal. We must, as a general criterion, ensure that we produce the sort of horses that will sell on the foreign market in particular. We must be mindful of the fact that many mistakes have been made in the past and we must learn by those mistakes. We have produced some outstanding animals and we must emulate the pattern that led to that situation.

I believe a central agency is a very appropriate body where we can have the maximum professional approach available to all breeders. That kind of objective would require a high degree of professional approach by all breeders. It must be spearheaded by a dynamic, central authority which would include the whole area of registration, dissemination of information, organising good marketing in a professional and sophisticated manner and generally acting as a meaningful organising and co-ordinating body. Teagasc has become a good deal more interested in recent years in the horse industry than it had been previously. This is a good thing. In the past there was no formalised programme to deal with horse breeding, particularly the area of the sport horse. Consideration should be given to group activities in the context of producing the best type of basic stock where a number of farmers are selected very carefully and are given attractive incentives to engage in a breeding programme under the aegis of some type of a central authority. This group should be a pilot group to set the headlines and let all concerned be aware of what can be done by careful and proper breeding.

In the past sales centres have not been up to the required standard for people with top class horses. Some improvements have been made and we have some recognised sales centres. Further improvements need to be made. We must remember that we are talking in the context of a three or four year old half bred horse that may or may not have been broken or trained. The cost of producing that animal and keeping it to that age is quite considerable. For that reason, bearing in mind that it is just as cheap to keep a very good horse as one that is not so good, no stone should be left unturned by all agencies concerned to assist and to guide the farmer, producer or breeder in producing the best horse possible. In very highly organised sales centres in Germany in recent years $10,000 approximately was the average price while here in Ireland at national sales centres the average price would be approximately $2,000. That is for three year old geldings while the average price for fillies of the same age would be in the region of $1,500. Regrettably at more rural and less well known centres prices would even be lower than that.

It is absolutely essential that we have good sales centres so that breeders will know that good horses are available. If they know that they will come and pay good prices. Very often a highly priced horse in Germany may be no better than the horse worth one-fifth the price in Ireland. The reason for the low prices in Ireland is the lack of competition. We must develop a greater and a more sophisticated mentality in the Irish mind towards the whole area of selling and the methods to be adopted. To illustrate the poor marketing structure, many of the very best horses are sold privately here for between $5,000 and $10,000 at the three year old stage. These are top figures: we are not talking about average prices. This kind of horse would make much more if presented better and sold at a centre where there was the appropriate level of demand.

The prospects for the production and sale of the Irish sport horse are good. We have earned a very high reputation. In the last Olympic Games, for example, a high percentage of the horses that won were Irish bred. In a lot of very prestigious events throughout the world such as showjumping the horses were of Irish origin. A good reputation in this field of horse breeding is very important. We have a need for a greater promotions effort at this time. I am quite satisfied that the Irish draught society and all the various breeding agencies in conjunction with the Minister and his Department, can do a marvellous job provided the entire effort is co-ordinated and that it is not left in the hands of a few people who, by trial and error, will tackle the job.

The breeding of ponies is very important. We have a great demand on the home market for ponies and, quite frankly, there are not enough to meet the demand at present. High-class ponies are scarce.

One thing that is often forgotten is the genetic factor in the production of any sport horse. We talk about an Irish draught mare but unless there is that spirited dimension in that animal we will never produce a top level showjumper or top level horse in any other category. I go back again to performance testing which is very very important. Many of our heavily boned half bred mares that are not registered would provide an excellent basic stock. They are being used as appendage mares and are not registered as draught mares and indeed are producing very good horses. This should be borne in mind because we do not have the pure bred draught mare in sufficient numbers to produce horses at the moment to meet the demand that could be there.

One of the factors I would like to emphasise is height. We must endeavour to produce a substantially sized animal. The height of a stallion is something like 15 and three-quarter hands and up to 16 and three-quarters. The mares are 15 and a quarter hands, a hand being four inches. If one were to go into all the finer points and the aspects to look for in a horse such as the head, shoulders, neck and front, the hindquarters, legs, action and so on one could talk a long time about it and I have no intention of doing that.

The Irish half-bred horse, or more correctly speaking, the non-thoroughbred has enjoyed the reputation throughout the world of being the best, excelling in all areas of work and sport. The Irish half-bred is well renowned for its stamina, temperament, ability and agility. These very outstanding qualities and others stem largely and almost exclusively, from the Irish draught. Jumping ability is a very important basic quality. The potential is there, provided proper care is taken to ensure that there is good selection in the breeding programme and that we do not start breeding from second-rate animals. I am also of the view that abolition of the licensing of half-bred stallions will not in any way lower our level of horse quality but, in fact, is something that should be replaced very positively by a very thorough and strict form of selection.

In conclusion, I support the measures proposed in the Bill and express the view that it would have been better had the final recommendations of this advisory committee been available to the Minister before the Bill was introduced.

Professor Conroy

I am very pleased, as Government spokesman in the Upper House on Industry and Commerce, to make a very brief contribution. In many ways we have given a lot of lip service to the horse industry but we have not really regarded it as an industry. We are doing so now. It is all to the credit of the Minister and his colleagues for giving agriculture its proper status as an agribusiness. In business one has to compete. If there is one area in the agricultural business in which we can and should compete it is in the horse industry. We have an established reputation there. Many other countries would be very pleased indeed to have the reputation we have for our horses. We have the natural advantage of a climate, probably among the best in the world, for the breeding and development of really good horses. We are in a competitive position also in that with modern air freight and various other methods of transport, we are able to compete in an international market. Our otherwise peripheral position is not the handicap it would be in certain other industries or aspects. We have not taken that on board fully on a commercial basis. It tends to get mixed up and there are accusations of elitism.

In the rest of our industries in agriculture, and right through industry and commerce, what has been said of us was that we were right up at the top of the market. If we are to succeed we must be up at the top of the market in all aspects of our industries.

I make no apology for coming in very briefly on this industry, although I bow to the vast knowledge of Senator Hourigan and his colleagues on both sides of the House in their individual knowledge of and participation in the horse industry and in its many different aspects. I think a general change in perception is very badly needed and that is one of the reasons why I welcome this Bill. It should have been given priority by the Minister and brought before the House. It is 60 years since the previous Bill was introduced. A lot has happened in that time.

Mention has been made of the changes in scientific knowledge, genetics and blood testing and of the changes in the actual use of the horse. The position has now changed to a situation which suits us very well indeed. The market we are competing in now is that of the quality horse and not of the draught horse, which many other countries could probably compete in as well as or far better than us. It is an international market. One of our problems is that so many of our better quality horses are being exported at an inappropriate time. We see this in show jumping where we have the best record in the world in relation to the actual number of horses and mares in the country. The number of showjumping champions in every country in the world who have Irish blood or breeding is of an astonishingly high percentage. We talk glibly of how we appreciate the horse industry. It is really only when we go to Germany, the United States, Canada or France that we find a true appreciation of the quality and contribution of the Irish horse industry and of the quality of Irish horses.

In relation to showjumping, we have had this enormous change associated with television, whereby showjumping has become a mass television spectacular watched by tens of millions throughout the world. I do not think we fully appreciate the contribution to this country generally, and specifically to the Irish horse industry, of having it constantly mentioned that such-and-such a horse, or such-and-such a champion jumper was Irish bred, or the mother of an Irish mare, or an Irish stallion, and so on. If we were trying it in some other industry we would probably willingly spend millions on promotion to get the sort of thing that we take for granted and pay very little attention to. In this connection it is a pity that our demonstration team, our Army group of the Blue Huzzars, was abolished. The Government should think very seriously about bringing back some sort of unit, not for any sort of elitism, but because of the tremendous tourist boost it would give in reference to the standing of the Irish horse. It could have enormous advantages which would far outweigh the expenses involved.

I am very pleased that this country has so much limestone. One of the advantages of the limestone which we have in this great central plain of ours is the enormous contribution it makes to the good bone structure of horses. Again, this is something we take for granted. We think of milk quotas, the sheep breeding industry, and so on. We are not all that competitive in those industries. We do very well. One area in which, without any doubt, we could do extraordinarily well — far better than we are doing at present — is in the horse industry.

Another advantage of the horse industry is that it is labour intensive. We are looking for jobs. In this industry there is tremendous direct employment and a tremendous spin-off and the value-added is enormous compared with any other aspect of agriculture in which we are involved. There is an open market niche for us. In other areas we are struggling desperately to find some niche in which this country could compete. In some ways we consider the horse industry — apart from the betting angle, which is great fun — to be a joke. We do not realise that the joke is on us rather than the other way round. It could be very profitable and very effective. I would like to take the opportunity of paying tribute to the people in the industry at all levels who have often, without a tremendous amount of support or encouragement, made such a success of it.

I welcome the Bill. It is a very welcome intervention in the horse industry. I would like to support it. I also hope that it is an indication of new thinking within the Department of Agriculture whereby this industry — our prestige flagship industry — which can be so competitive and so successful, is given the status it so rightly deserves.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture and Food (Mr. Walsh)

First, I would like to express my appreciation to the Senators who contributed to the debate on this Bill, Senator Avril Doyle, Senator Raftery, Senator Hourigan and Senator Richard Conroy. The contributions were unanimous in their positive attitude to this tremendously valuable resource which we have in Ireland and which, regrettably, we tended to neglect over the past few decades. I take on board totally the points made by Senator Conroy in his most recent contribution that not alone the horse industry itself but the entire image of Ireland was enhanced by the performance of the Irish horse, not only on the Irish team but on international teams.

Only last week I was in Italy promoting the Irish food industry. One of the people who has become involved in a joint venture with an Irish food company put me to the pin of my collar to talk to him in detail about the Irish horse and, particularly, the pedigrees and the breed, and the cross arrangement and the bone structure of the Irish horse. His first visit to Ireland was to the Irish Horse Show which is a premier international horse show and, resulting from that and his contacts with the horse industry, a very valuable joint venture was set up in a totally different and unrelated industry. It is a tremendously valuable asset.

I want to pay tribute to the participants in the industry because there was not a great deal of money out of the non-thoroughbred horse industry. Relative to other farm enterprises, for example, the dairy industry, the beef industry or the tillage industry, people stuck with the Irish horse through bad times for only one main reason and that was their love of horses. There is this symbiotic relationship between Irish people and the Irish horse. We know how to manage them well. We know how to handle them. It is something we are good at. As an alternative farm enterprise, where we have large tracts of land without sufficient livestock of any kind on them, here is an opportunity which any other country they would grasp eagerly and regard as an obvious area for massive investment and development.

I am absolutely delighted at this stage to be in a position to help with this development. I am delighted with the general across the political board positive response to the development of the Irish horse industry and I hope there will be further development. For example, under the Structural Funds scheme I hope the non-thoroughbred horse industry will be earmarked for further development as an alternative enterprise. I am giving very considerable support to the improvement of the quality. Senator Hourigan repeatedly emphasised the importance of quality. There is no use in increasing the actual number of horses. The quality has to be taken care of and looked after. We will insist on that.

Marketing centres were referred to by a number of Senators. We have a programme for the development of a number of strategically located marketing centres, where there would be proper sales and marketing and proper rewards for the people involved, not alone in the actual sales rings but also opportunities for lunging and for performance, so that people could actually see the movement of the horse and the attributes of the particular animals they are purchasing. That marketing centre development is a part of the whole programme.

Teagasc is involved in the advice and the support for the development of the Irish horse industry. We have at the Kildalton Centre particularly ongoing courses for young farmers and for people interested in a livelihood in the horse industry. We have very important seminars and symposia. The response there is absolutely outstanding. There is an oversupply of people looking for participation in courses. At the seminars there is always a full house. The interest is there because this is a traditional industry. We have built up a tremendously important international reputation, but we now have internationally this growing development of outdoor sports. There is no better outdoor sport nowadays than horse riding in the countryside. We are in a position to make available the very best and most suited animal as a sport horse here in Ireland.

The development of farriery was mentioned. We remember a couple of decades ago at almost every crossroads there was the blacksmith but it is not a feature of Irish life any more. We had people in various towns and villages who were gainfully employed in making and repairing the tackle but that is gone as a feature of Irish life, as well. We now have courses for all those activities coming onstream to be in tune and in line with the development of this industry.

I certainly have tremendous hope for the Irish horse industry. It will be one of our major successes over the next few years. I expect when the figures become available for 1990, which is the first year of the development programme in which grant-aid is paid and the marketing centres are available, that we will see a dramatic improvement not alone in the numbers but in the quality as well.

In response to a number of items raised by Senator Avril Doyle in her very interesting and very informative contribution on 15 February, the Senator particularly referred to EC legislation. This was also referred to today by Senators. In line with the general harmonisation of regulations and directives we will be debating and discussing, and eventually agreeing, directives affecting the horse industry. I want to say that the EC proposals currently under discussion at official level are aimed at generally liberalising trade within the European Community. I do not think that Senator Doyle or any of the other Members of this House need be alarmed at the proposals which, as presented by the Commission, are along the lines of previous ones in the livestock breeding and, indeed, other sectors.

The proposals set out in broad terms the areas on which Community policy is to be agreed but leave the detailed decisions to be settled later under a standing committee procedure. Issues like criteria for stud book entry will not fall to be decided by the Council of Ministers but will be subject to separate proposals from the Commission to be considered and voted on by member states at official level. Again, in line with the whole development of the Irish horse industry by consensus, officials at the Department of Agriculture and Food are regularly meeting the practitioners on the ground in the horse industry interests to thrash out with them the best way for the industry to go. We will continue to do that. I am glad things are coming along in a very enlightened fashion in that particular area. There is no question of interfering in the internal arrangements of the stud book organisations, never mind the Department taking them over. The criteria for recognition will not be unduly onerous or unreasonable.

I want to assure this House that the negotiations on the present proposals are proceeding favourably under our Presidency and from our Irish point of view I am confident our horse industry interests will be adequately safeguarded. I think we owe it to the industry. We owe it to the practitioners to ensure that not alone are the interests of the Irish horse industry safeguarded but that under the new directives and regulations they will be enhanced. I am happy to put on record that the various interests are kept fully informed before each of the meetings and the working parties to make certain that the industry is in tune with the developments that are taking place and that they have an input to them. As regards the thoroughbred and some other horse industries' ban on artificial breeding, the European Commission has now altered its proposals to recognise this fact, following strong pressure from Ireland and a number of other member states. In other words, whatever a particular stud would require at present will be honoured under future European Community regulations.

Since I last spoke on this Bill we received a formal request from the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Secondary Legislation for information on these proposals. A detailed reply was sent to them very shortly after that, in fact about five or six weeks ago. If anybody else is interested in that detailed reply on the draft proposal for Council directives on animal health conditions governing inter-community trade in and import from third countries of live equity it is available for them because that is in line with keeping all interests informed as to what is going on.

Senator Doyle was quite critical of and had quite a lot to say about the stallion registration system. She rested her case on examples of stallions which had not been accepted for registration but which are said to be producing good stock. She referred to the dissatisfaction with inspectors' decisions and said that the Department of Agriculture and Food, and myself, stand indicted if the system continues any longer. Yet Senator Doyle went on to tell me what is already well known — that if I canvass opinions from various interests I will get as many different views. Everybody knows that there are various interests in the horse industry and they stick rigidly to their particular interest in some aspects of the industry. They are quite notorious in championing their own particular area of interest. To get a consensus is quite difficult. In fact Senator Doyle knows as well as I do that this divergence of opinion on most issues is a feature of the horse breeding industry. We are great individuals. In fact, that is a very good trait in many respects. Senator Doyle concluded by saying that quite often the horse industry should be taken by the "scruff of the neck" and saved from itself. I agree totally with her. The system we have has, by and large, stood the test of time and nobody has yet come up with a better system. I want to record my appreciation of the sterling work of the inspectors who, year after year, perform a thankless task with courage and integrity. It is not an easy job by any means to please everybody.

Senator Doyle urged caution in relation to the use of continental warm bloods and the impact this could have on our horse industry. I will be happy to be guided by the horse advisory committee on this and on the use of outside breeds and crosses generally. We have to bear in mind, however, that we will be open to imports of all breeds and types of horses when the European Community legislation is enacted. Ultimately breeders must decide for themselves. The horse advisory committee is made up of nationally and internationally known individuals and practitioners in the horse industry. Most of them were nominated by the various organisations. They are meeting regularly under the chairmanship of a senior Department inspector and are doing a tremendous job in bringing the views of the industry to the attention of the Department and making sure that there is a streamlined, comprehensive development programme for the development of the non-thoroughbred horse industry.

In relation to national hunt sires, the reason that the progeny of national hunt sires and Irish horse registered mares are not eligible for entry to the Irish horse register is simply because such sires are not being offered for registration at annual inspections.

Senator Doyle made a plea for headage payments to be available all over the country. I would like to point out that the purpose of headage payments is to provide an income supplement to maintain the population in disadvantaged rural areas. They are not a breeding aid as such. Personally, I believe they are a very important aid to the development of the horse industry. Not alone is there £400 headage on each pure-bred registered Irish draught foal but there is a very substantial headage available to the non-thoroughbred horse industry in disadvantaged areas. I am extremely hopeful that the area of the country which will be designated as disadvantaged will be substantially increased in the next few months. I would expect that almost three-quarters of the country will be designated as disadvantaged and that that will be announced later on this summer, so that headage will apply to most of the country.

With regard to the national programme for the non-thoroughbred horse industry, it should be remembered that responsibility for this sector reverted to the Department of Agriculture only recently. That is why I suggested earlier that this year will show the first fruits of that programme. We have indications already that there is a very positive response from the industry itself around the country. Now that the advisory committee on the horse industry is up and running I expect to receive sound, constructive suggestions to build on what we already have. I am prepared to consider its recommendations carefully and to act on them where appropriate.

Senator Doyle made great play of the fact that the Equestrian Federation of Ireland will be making a proposal to the next meeting of the horse advisory committee for a return to stallion licensing. I understand the EFI did indeed make a proposal for a system for registering all stallions and their progeny. I await the committee's formal recommendations on this matter. This is a far cry, however, from a return to statutory licensing. The recommendations were for registration.

In conclusion, I repeat that there has been no concerted pressure whatsoever from any sector of the industry for a return to the old stallion licensing system. We are now in a different era. The demands of the industry are totally different from those which necessitated the provisions of the 1934 Act. Senator Hourigan, Senator Conroy and Senator Raftery made those points, that the draught horse was at one time a draught horse for taking loads of beer and pulling ploughs and harrows. That day is gone. We now want a spirited animal to be of benefit for showjumping, for dressage, for three-day eventing and for general sport. Riding schools are now a tremendous feature of rural Ireland. Under the alternative enterprise programme and the agri-tourism programme they will be encouraged even more. The point has been made that the market itself will quickly weed out what cannot be sold. I agree with that wholeheartedly. That is why encouragement rather than compulsion should be our guide. Accordingly, I commend this Bill to abolish stallion licensing under the 1934 Act once more to this House.

Question put and agreed to.

Agreed to take remaining Stages today.

Bill put through Committee, reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.

Sitting suspended at 5 p.m. and resumed at 5.30 p.m.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 9 May 1990