It is proposed to take item No. 2, the Child Care Bill, 1988, continuing Committee Stage until 6 p.m. There is a sos from 6 p.m. until 6.30 p.m. and from 6.30 p.m. until 8 p.m. we will take motion No. 53, the Fianna Fáil motion dealing with tourism.
Order of Business.
I would just like to raise the matter I raised on last week's Order of Business, that is, to have some indication of the programme of legislation from now until the end of the session so that people can make arrangements. I would like to know, first of all, the list of legislation and, secondly, when you intend taking it.
May I ask the Leader of the House when we can expect the remaining Stages of the Environmental Protection Agency Bill to be debated? May I also ask the Leader if it is possible to make time available for a debate on the unemployment situation?
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he would be prepared to make a small gesture to acknowledge that today is World Environment Day by sending a message of congratulations to the newly-formed group who will do much to improve the environment of the capital of our country. I refer to the group People First Dublin Initiative, made up of a very diverse range of people — the National Trust, An Taisce, various institutes of architects, Iarnród Éireann, Dublin Bus, Trinity College, etc. — who intend to tackle the whole area of transportation in the city and I think they are worthy of congratulations.
I do not know if it is the practice of the House that the Leader should write to such a considerable list of organisations.
There is only one organisation, called People First Dublin Initiative.
I would hate if anybody would perceive an ulterior motive in the proposal.
It is World Environment Day and I do not think any gesture other than this——
That is what would worry me: that it would be misinterpreted or misrepresented.
May I simply — I have already asked the leader on another occasion about Tibet — draw the attention of the House to the fact that it is almost two years to the day since the massacre in Tiananmen Square? May I ask all those both in front of me and on the other side who celebrated with such enthusiasm the collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe if they would direct their attentions towards what I think are their friends in China — they are not mine — and remind them that there are human rights abuses? There is an Amnesty report available. May I ask the leader if we could have a debate on the appalling continuing abuse of human rights that is taking place on a daily both within the People's Republic of China and also within occupied Tibet?
I welcome Senators Upton and Harte back and support them in their insistence that we should have a debate on the single greatest crisis this country is now facing, which is the spiralling rate of unemployment with all the damage that it will do.
May I finally record — fairly dispassionately, I hope — my objection to the Order of Business as ordered? I have been ten years in this House and I have never before been in a position in which I was given a specific time for when a debate on a Committee Stage was taking place and where that was changed without some attempt to consult with me. I was told the Child Care Bill would be on from 2 p.m. tomorrow and the first I heard of it was when I received a letter yesterday afternoon through Senator O'Toole's secretary. I am not used to being treated like that. I am not used to having this House treated like that and I object in the strongest possible terms——
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately for all of us, the Order of Business is not a matter for me.
I always talk through you, Sir.
I know. I think there is another opportunity that the Senator may wish to avail of to discuss his difficulty.
I am sorry. I am objecting, as I understand is my right, to the Order of Business and I am simply explaining why. I really think this has been ordered with all the grace, subtlety and finesse of a bull in a china shop, or indeed a bull that brought along its own china shop to have the operation in here. I really object very strongly. I am tempted to object to the Order of Business, but, to quote the Leader of the House on another occasion, quite frankly I could not be bothered.
First of all, I would like to support what my colleague, Senator Ryan, has said and also, since I am in a supportive mood, I support what Senator Hederman, has said. I have no personal interest in any local elections that are taking place. Therefore, I think I can do it without any of these opprobrious suggestions attaching to me. In view of the fact that it has been confirmed that Ireland is actually doing nothing whatever to mark World Environment Day, I think Senator Hederman's proposal is worthy of support.
I would like to ask the Leader of the House if he can give us an update on the question of the Foreign Affairs Committee, which is an item on the supplementary Order Paper. Like many people, I am increasingly disquieted and I have raised this on several occasions. We are being fed information through the media. The latest speculation is that the committee is being long-fingered because of a dispute between Deputy Haughey and Deputy Lenihan. I would like to know if that is true or if there are plans to introduce such a committee and, if there are, I want to make certain the Seanad is centrally involved in it.
I would like to ask if the leader will give time for a debate on the Middle East. I will not be satisfied by replies from the leader saying we have already had one. This is a radically different situation now. We are in a situation in regard to the Kurdish people where, for example, some interpreters who have cooperated with the American and the United Nations forces are being hung out to dry, they are going to be left stranded behind and are going to be simply butchered by Saddam Hussein when he gets back in. It is not good enough for us to think we have had a debate on the Middle East. We have not had a debate on this aspect of it and I now call for such a debate.
I would like too, since World Environment Day was mentioned, to draw the attention of the House to the fact that this weekend saw World AIDS Day and that this is a continuing international crisis of very severe proportions. Would the leader entertain the possibility of once more having a debate on the subject of AIDS as it has an impact on Ireland, particularly as it is now clearly internationally established that the principal method of transmission is heterosexual intercourse and that this has been established in this country also?
Finally, since last week we stood, very properly, in silence to commemorate the murder of a member of a political party, would the Leader of the House agree with me that it is now time that we stood in silence and in shame particularly at the prospect of a civil servant having her legs blown off in our name in the North last week? I would like a moment's shame for the victims of violence frequently perpetrated in our name. Statements which claim that violence are often issued from this capital city.
Mr. Farrell
As this is European Environment Day, I would like to say that in Sligo Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil have agreed that they would not put any posters on telegraph poles or ESB poles. We are putting them on billboards strategically placed. Could I ask that all politicians follow our example right around Ireland in the interests of the environment?
(Interruptions.)
First of all, may I also welcome the comments of Senators Farrell and remind the House that in Cork we have——
I want to say that this is demeaning the business of the House. If you have local elections to run you should run your elections, but I am not involved in local elections so I would like to get on with the business of the day.
(Interruptions.)
Before the proceedings become more demeaning than they have already been, in the light of what the Senator has said, we will return to Senator O'Keeffe.
I must say that I enjoyed the interruption from Senator O'Toole on the demeaning of this House. I do not wish to comment further on that. We were discussing the environment and postering. In Cork we had a call from Fine Gael that we would not have any postering and I find the countryside littered with Fine Gael posters. I ask the Leader of the House, given the appropriateness of the day, World Environment Day, to advert to an innovation brought in by the Fianna Fáil Government in 1977 relating to the beach amenity grants and that out of 83 entries right around this coast 67 of them were granted the blue flag today.
That is your question?
It is something we in this House should congratulate the Minister for the Environment on and I would like the Leader of the House to advert to that fact and also to the fact that only 27 entries in Great Britain were successful.
Since the Independents have raised the question of World Environment Day, a very appropriate gesture for World Environment Day from this House would be if the Leader of the House would agree to impress upon the Minister for the Environment the fact that our natural environment is being marred and is ruined by the prevalence of potholes throughout the country. Would the Leader agree that, as a gesture in honour of World Environment Day, our Minister for the Environment should commit himself to putting the county roads of Ireland in proper shape?
Just a quick comment on World Environment Day. I think it would be a very good thing if it did go from this House that it was the view here that there should be no posters during this forthcoming election from anybody.
The world will breathe a sigh of relief.
What does that mean?
I do not know. I am not always in a position to interpret every sound from that corner.
I wish someone would tell me. On another and very serious matter, the matter of votes of sympathy has already been raised. I am glad, because there has been something on my mind for a long time and I now have the opportunity to say it, since today we are not dealing with any vote of sympathy. When there is a vote of sympathy proposed in this House it is very difficult for anyone to oppose it. You accept the vote of sympathy and you go with it. I think it would be better for this House if votes of sympathy were passed only when there was the unfortunate death of a Member, because I feel it may well be getting out of hand. There was one occasion here where there was a vote of sympathy and it aroused a lot of controversy afterwards. The vote of sympathy was justified, most of the words that were used that day were justified, but still there was a lot of controversy afterwards. It would be better if we adhered to what I always understood to be the old tradition and just move a vote of sympathy when there is the unfortunate death of a Member.
I recalled — and Senators might find this of interest — that when Mr. de Valera died a vote of sympathy was proposed by the Leader of the House at that time, who was a Fine Gael Member, Michael O'Higgins. I mention his party because there was another Michael Higgins here. He was the one who proposed the vote of sympathy, but in doing so he said: "I know I am breaking tradition," which he was, because he was proposing a vote of sympathy to someone outside the House. However, it was an noble gesture on his part. Everybody understood why the vote of sympathy was being passed, but he was breaking tradition and he excused himself. I think we should go back to the old tradition. With all the unfortunate happenings in the North of Ireland on one side or another, every day we meet you will have a vote of sympathy to someone. I think, with all respect, a Chathaoirligh that you might decide that we just go back to what was the old tradition.
Senator Hanafin, in the light of what you have said I am prepared to take your views along to Committee on Procedure and Privileges and have them consider what is appropriate for the House to do in this particular regard. Is that to your satisfaction?
Given the interest in World Environment Day, I am tempted to ask the Leader of the House when he replies to the other questions on this if he would indicate what progress Senator McDonald's sunfiower seed oil engine is making, because we are all holding our breath in relation to that.
One more parochial issue, when the Leader is replying to the various questions put to him in relation to World Environment Day I would like him to add in his votes of congratulations to the different bodies in Dublin and elsewhere that have been alluded to, a note of congratulations to Wexford County Council for the publication of an environmental magazine to commorate World Environment Day. Could I add a note of cynicism in that I would hope that the agreements entered into between different political parties in relation to posters and our environment are motivated environmentally and not by the pocket. I leave that just said. Providing it is environmental considerations I am fully with it, but I have a funny feeling that it is financial matters which are dictating the tune more than the environment.
I also agree with Senator Brendan Ryan in that I was told last week, by a very reliable source on the benches across from me, that the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill was being taken on the Wednesday. There was a change around. I am not saying the Whips subsequently did or did not agree, but I was interested in the schedule this week and I was specifically told that the Fisheries Bill would be taken today, which would corroborate when Senator Ryan said, that the Child Care Bill would then be taken tomorrow.
Senator O'Toole asked for some idea as to what the business might be in the short term. Obviously, there is the Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, as well as the Competition Bill and the University of Limerick Bill, three Bills which will be taken in the month of June. In July Report Stage of the Environmental Protection Agency Bill will be taken. Senator Upton also queried the position of the Environmental Protection Agency Bill. He and others asked for a debate on unemployment which I agree is an important matter, but I have no plans for a debate on that particular issue.
I have noted carefully what has been said by many of the speakers in regard to World Environment Day. But this is not really appropriate to the Order of Business.
Senator Ryan asked about a debate on Tibet and again I have to say I have no plans for that. In regard to his comment and that of Senator Avril Doyle about the Order of Business, the Order of Business can change. It does not change very much from what you get in your Whips' notice, but the proposal last week could well have changed in 24 hours. That obviously is what has happened here and it has happened for good reasons. It is not the first time, and I am sure it will not be the last time, that whatever proposals are suggested for the week following will and can change. That is going on as long as I can remember. I accept that it is disappointing; but it happens and I share the Senator's view on it.
I have nothing further to add to the comment made by Senator Norris about the foreign affairs committee. I have no proposals at this stage for a further debate on the Middle East, nor have I a proposal for a debate on the important matter of AIDS.
The other matters were totally inappropriate to the Order of Business. You, a Chathaoirligh, have already referred to Senator Hanafin's suggestion, which I think is the way forward, to have discussions at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges regarding votes of sympathy.
Order of Business agreed to.