Today's Order of Business will be Item 1, all Stages. We will continue Item 2 until 4 p.m., the Minister to be called to reply not later than 3.45 p.m. There will be a sos between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m.
Order of Business
On the Order of Business, at times like this one might like to be in the other House where one could ask questions directly across the floor to the person responsible and get an answer. Helpful as Senator Wright is, I do not think he is in a position to answer the questions that Ireland is asking this morning. We will not be opposing the Order of Business because I hope that under Item 2 we will be able to get an answer to the question that Ireland is asking: which Minister knew what when the National Development Plan was being launched? What were the Minister for Finance and the Minister of State, Deputy Fitzgerald, told by President Delors? Were they told that the money would not be there? Did they then go ahead?
I am sure as the debate continues you will hear about things like that. I am giving you a little latitude because of your position, but I would like to think that the Order of Business would not be used for a further debate on this matter.
I am just explaining in case there is any inconsistency between my opposing this item yesterday and not today and in the hope that there will be some clarification of whether the plan was put forward by Ministers who knew the money would not be there. If that is the case it is one of the gravest political charges that can be made against any Minister. I hope we will get the answers here this morning.
In the reply to the Order of Business yesterday the Leader of the House gave very specific statements which are in the record. I firmly hope that he has not given hostages to fortune on that issue. I know he would not deliberately mislead the House but I hope the House has not been in any sense misled by the information given at that time and I ask him to restate whether that is the position this morning. That is as much as I could ask of him. The confusion which I referred to yesterday is still there and this debate is taking place in a vacuum. There is confusion and a lack of clarification. We will continue with the debate because no matter which way it works out, the National Development Plan needs to be considered and debated at all levels. I appreciate the opportunity to do that, but the reality is that the planning is based on a certain amount of money and there is utter confusion in this regard. The situation is changing from hour to hour and we do not know where we are going.
It has now clearly come to light that what the Irish people were told is not the fact. We are here to debate the National Development Plan but the way figures are being bandied about we do not know if the amount involved is £1 billion or some other figure. My view is that the Seanad should agree to withdraw Item 2 until the position is clarified. Perhaps the Seanad should be debating a motion of no confidence in the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Foreign Affairs.
The Leader of the House asked me yesterday when I asked for a debate on agriculture to come up with some headings. I have done so.
Through the Whip.
They are intervention weight limits for beef, proposed disaster fund for losses in 1993, premium headage payments, cattle prices and grading, GATT, and the most important is in relation to the Minister for Agriculture. He announced last July that the agricultural community will receive an 18 per cent increase in their net income. I wish to debate that to find out exactly where this 18 per cent is because people are very interested. Those are the six headings.
The Leader of the House did say you were to deal with this matter through the Whip, who is an expert in these matters, I understand.
On the Order of Business, may I ask the Leader of the House if legislation will be introduced in this session enabling the setting up of the three new Dublin authorities?
That Bill was circulated today so it will be dealt with between now and the Christmas recess. The Senator, like myself, has a special interest in it. I would also like to clarify one or two points. I am sure that the Minister for Finance will use the opportunity in summing up today's debate to clarify some of the issues that Senator Manning raised. Yesterday I quoted from the statements by the Tánaiste and Taoiseach and made it quite clear that I had copies of both speeches, which are on the record. I made the point that I was quoting from the statements made in the previous hour in the other House.
Things have changed since. The rats are out of the bag.
Even with the current difficulties, both President Delors and Commissioner Millan have put on record the quality of the National Development Plan. I think that should be hammered home, that the debate on the plan was launched——
What debate?
We should discuss the quality of the Government.
The less you say about the plan today the better,
——the Government is going in the right direction. It is important that both radio and television this morning——
It begins to sound like a moral victory.
The whole £7 billion.
The quality of the national plan will ensure that the moneys that are needed——
Never mind the quality, find the money.
Is that money to be deleted from the national plan?
——that the moneys that are needed to implement the plan will be forthcoming.
Has the Senator been advised about what will be deleted from the national plan?
Order of Business agreed to.