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Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Tuesday, 22 Mar 1994

Vol. 139 No. 14

Terms of Employment (Information) Bill, 1993: Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

With the permission of the House, I will go through details of the Bill. This is a technical Bill and I hope we will be able to isolate the main points. The purpose of this Bill is to give effect to the provisions of the EU Directive on an Employer's Obligation to Inform Employees of the Conditions Applicable to the Contract or Employment Relationship.

The Bill obliges employers to provide their employees with a written statement of particulars of their terms of employment and to notify them of any changes in those particulars. The Bill also provides for a system of redress for any employee who considers that he or she has been denied entitlement to information under the terms of the Bill.

As regards the intent and effect of the Bill, one point I would like to emphasise at the outset is that the Bill is primarily concerned with the provision of basic information. The Bill simply requires employers to give their employees a written statement of their terms of employment. It provides a system of redress where the particulars of the terms of employment contained in the written statement are incomplete or inaccurate. The availability of a clear and unambiguous statement of the terms of employment will ensure a high level of transparency in the employment relationship. This will help to ensure that the employee and the employer will have a good understanding of their respective obligations to each other and it will eliminate any misconceptions about the employment relationships.

This level of clarity will be of significant benefit to the employer and the employee. It will help to avoid subsequent disputes as to the employee's and employer's entitlements and obligations and it will facilitate continuing good relations in the workplace. All good employers would agree that the provisions of such information represents a positive approach to proper management and cannot fail to contribute to the development of a proper sense of openness and mutual trust between people in the workplace.

A requirement to provide information to employees about their terms of employment has been enshrined in legislation for some time. For the past 20 years most employees have been entitled to a range of information about their terms of employment under the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973. However, the range of information required by this Bill is somewhat more extensive and it reflects the needs arising from developments in employment arrangements over the years. Accordingly, the provisions of this Bill builds on provisions contained in the 1973 Act.

I would like to mention some of the main differences between the 1973 Act and the provisions in this Bill. The scope of the Bill is wider than existing legislation as it applies to all employees other than those who work less than eight hours each week or have less than four weeks' continuous service. The 1973 Act, as amended by the Worker Protection (Regular Part-time Employees) Act, 1991, excludes those who work less than eight hours each week or who have less than 13 weeks continuous service. It also excludes certain limited types of employment. The range of employment particulars to be included in the statement required under this Bill is more extensive than is required under the existing legislation.

The Bill introduces for the first time a complaints procedure which gives employees access to the rights commissioner and, on appeal, to the Employment Appeals Tribunal if they believe they have failed to secure their entitlement to full and accurate written information on their terms of employment.

Before I deal with the specific provisions of the Bill, I take this opportunity to mention the background to the introduction of the directive and, in a broader context, to reflect on Ireland's position on European Union measures designed to protect the employment rights of workers. The directive, which gives rise to this Bill, has its origins in the Community Charter of Fundamental Social Rights for Workers or, as it is more commonly known, the Social Charter. That charter identified a number of measures necessary to promote improved working conditions for workers in the context of the establishment of the Internal Market. One of those measures was that employees should be given written information on their conditions of employment. Arising from that provision, the EU Commission proposed this directive which requires member states to put in place the necessary legislative provisions to ensure that employees are provided with information.

As a signatory of the Social Charter, Ireland is committed to the development of initiatives designed to improve economic and social cohesion. We have consistently adopted a constructive and positive approach to the development of social policy while taking account of the need to avoid the imposition of costs and obligations which would adversely affect competitiveness and employment.

In the debate on social policy and its relationship to employment creation, it is fair to say that many responses are often overly simplistic and can distort the true position. I believe a balanced approach between measures designed, on the one hand, to stimulate employment and, on the other, to protect workers' rights can provide the desired consensus for the purpose of achieving an efficient and just labour market. A business environment which is both economically efficient and socially just is most likely to give rise to social and economic benefits for all.

In that context, it is appropriate to refer to the White Paper on Employment Growth and Competitiveness and the Green Paper on Social Policy which have been published by the EU Commission. The publication of these documents has led to a widespread debate on how to proceed in the broad industrial and social policy area and on the economic environment in which these are set. As part of that debate I am hosting a major conference on the Green Paper in Dublin Castle on 28 March, aimed specifically at encouraging responses from interests on how the European Union should proceed in the social policy area. A feature to note in both documents is the stress placed on links between economic and industrial measures on the one hand and social measures on the other.

The Programme for a Partnership Government and the recent Programme for Competitiveness and Work have struck a balance between initiatives aimed at economic expansion and employment creation and those dealing with employment, law and labour affairs. It is through this process of consultation and consensus at national level that we have been able to balance our approach to labour legislation. I hope a similar approach, aimed at achieving a high level of consensus, will continue to provide the basis for the determination of future priorities in the social policy area at European and national level.

Before I proceed to the provisions of the Bill, I consider that a balanced approach to legislation, which we have achieved with this Bill, does not impose any real threat to or burden on employers. On the contrary, I am convinced this Bill, which is based on and reflects the consensus agreed by the member states in adopting the directive, will contribute to the development and maintenance of proper and constructive employment relationships between employers and employees.

I will now deal with the provisions of the Bill. Section 1 is the interpretation section. The definition "contract of employment" has been designed to encompass not only the traditional contract of service but also contracts under which workers are engaged by employment agencies. The decision to bring employment agency workers within the scope of this legislation follows from a commitment already made and this is enshrined in other legislation, including the Unfair Dismissals (Amendment) Act, 1993.

Section 2 provides for exclusions from the provisions of the Bill. It shall not apply to an employee who is normally expected to work for less than eight hours a week or who has been in continuous service for less than four weeks. This is consistent with the terms of the directive and achieves the proper balance between the protection of the worker and the need for flexibility on behalf of the employer. Section 2 also contains an enabling provision to allow other classes of employment to be excluded by order from any provisions of the Bill. In that regard, I accepted an amendment on Committee Stage in the Dáil to provide that any such exclusion will only be put into effect after consultation with the social partners. I must stress, however, that the power to exclude classes of employment from the Bill is restricted by the terms of the directive to employments of a casual or specified nature and the exclusion must be justified.

Section 3 is a key provision. It specifies the particulars of the terms of employment which an employer must give in writing to an employee and provides that the information must be given not later than two months after the date of commencement of employment. Certain particulars may be given by the employer through reference to legislation or collective agreements governing those particulars, provided they are reasonably available.

Many of the particulars specified in section 3 of the Bill are already specified in section 9 of the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973, which is being repealed by this Bill. The 1973 Act required that particulars be given to the employee on such matters as the date of commencement of employment, remuneration, hours of work, holidays, sick pay and pensions and notice periods. This Bill extends the list of particulars to include the name and address of the employer, the place of work, the job title, the expected duration of temporary contracts of employment and a reference to any collective agreements.

Section 3 also requires that the written statement be signed by or on behalf of the employer and that it must be retained for one year after the employee's employment has ceased. The requirement to provide a written statement only applies to employees recruited from the date of commencement of the legislation. Section 6, to which I will come shortly, deals with the rights of existing employees.

Section 4 deals with employment outside the State. It provides that, in the case of employees assigned to work abroad for a period of not less than one month — such cases are numerous — an employer must provide, prior to the employee's departure from the State, the complete written statement described in section 3. Also, the employer must provide certain supplementary information which includes the period of employment outside the State and the benefits in cash or kind resulting from that employment. This is a recognition of the growing trend of employment contracts to provide for periods of employment in other countries.

Section 5 deals with changes in the particulars of the terms of employment and provides that any such changes must be notified to the employee within one month. However, where the change is related to the employee being assigned to work outside the State, the change must be notified before the departure of the employee from the State.

Section 6 provides for existing employees. It provides that where an existing employee requires his or her employer to furnish a written statement of particulars of terms of employment, the employer must supply it within two months of the date of request. It would not be reasonable or administratively feasible to require employers to automatically furnish a written statement of employment terms to each existing employee on the date of implementation of the directive in national legislation. It was decided as a compromise that employers would only be required to provide particulars of the terms of employment to existing employees if so requested and that the employer would have two months in which to do so.

The directive requires member states to put in place adequate measures to allow employees to pursue complaints if they consider that their employers have not given them their entitlements. Sections 7, 8, and 9 deal with the adjudicative process. In summary, the system of redress which I have incorporated in these sections of the Bill is a right of access to the rights commissioner in the first instance, with a right of appeal to the Employment Appeals Tribunal and enforcement of determinations of the tribunal, if necessary, in the District Court. This will allow an inexpensive and readily accessible system of redress.

Section 7 provides that an employee may refer a complaint to a rights commissioner and it allows the rights commissioner a range of options. In addition, the rights commissioner may order the employer to pay to the employee compensation of a maximum of four weeks remuneration. In relation to the powers of remedy, I refer briefly to one specific provision, that is, the power of the rights commissioner to alter or add to the details in the written statement. Following concerns expressed to me about this provision, I was pleased to include an amendment on Committee Stage in the Dáil to make it explicit that the purpose of this provision is to allow the rights commissioner to correct any inaccuracies or omissions in the written statement, and that is all; in other words, the rights commissioner will not have the power to adjudicate on terms of employment.

Section 8 provides an avenue of appeal from, and enforcement of, recommendations of a rights commissioner to the Employment Appeals Tribunal. The tribunal is empowered to issue a determination which affirms, varies or sets aside the recommendation of the rights commissioner. This is similar to a provision which was included in the recent Unfair Dismissals (Amendment) Act, 1993, based on the operation of the unfair dismissals legislation over the past years. The intention of the provision is to discourage employers from ignoring the rights commissioner procedure. This section also provides for a fine of £1,000 for failure to attend before the Employment Appeals Tribunal, refusal to give evidence or failure or refusal to produce documents. This is consistent with the level of fines included in other legislation.

Section 9 deals with enforcement of determinations of the Employment Appeals Tribunal. It provides that, where an employer fails to implement a determination, the Minister or the employee concerned or the employee's trade union may apply to the District Court for an order directing the employer to implement the determination. Section 9 also empowers the District Court to include in the order interest on the amount of any financial compensation awarded. This mirrors a provision of the Unfair Dismissals (Amendment) Act, 1993.

Section 10 deals with evidence in relation to prosecution of a person for failure to attend before the Employment Appeals Tribunal. It also mirrors a provision of the Unfair Dismissals (Amendment) Act. It is intended to resolve problems which have arisen in the past. Section 11 is a standard requirement relating to orders and regulations made under the legislation. Section 12 is a standard section dealing with expenses incurred in the administration of the Act.

Section 13 repeals sections 9 and 10 of the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act, 1973. Section 9 of the 1973 Act specified the details of the terms of employment to be provided by an employer to an employee and the timescales for the supply of that information. Section 10 provided that an employer who failed to comply with this could be prosecuted. Those provisions of the 1973 Act are overtaken by the provisions in this Bill, particularly the ones dealing with more extensive information. Section 14 is a standard provision dealing with the short title and date of commencement.

Before concluding, I reiterate that this Bill represents further evidence of Ireland's commitment to implementation of measures adopted by the European Union in the context of the social dimension enshrined in EU policy. Moreover, I am satisfied that the legislative requirement to provide written information on the terms of employment will be seen as a positive step in establishing greater transparency in the employment relationships between employers and employees. The good employer has nothing to fear from this legislation and I am confident its provisions will be seen as an asset to the continued development of harmonious relationships in the workplace.

While I may, perforce, have dwelt at length on the specific sections of the Bill, we are talking about a simple form enshrining a relationship between employers and employees. To portray it as a huge restriction on employment is incorrect. Most employers and employees are good. We do not seek to spancel business or curtail its expansion but to provide for harmonious relationships. The Treaty of Rome refers to economic and social cohesion and this is enshrined in legislation here and in other countries. An incorrect view has developed that proper worker protection legislation is leftist and should not be entertained. I can inform the House that from my brief experience of 15 months in dealing with the consideration of directives at European level and their translation into national legislation, it is a long and sometimes tortuous process. You deal with each of the social partners and see their points of view. It is a general easing along the road which goes on endlessly at European level with officials and politicians. Formal and informal meetings take place and great cognisance is taken of the viewpoints of all of the social partners. Europe is not blind to the need for a flexible approach to employment.

It was interesting to read about the recent debate at the G7 summit. I briefly had the opportunity to talk to some people who participated in it — they were not from this country as we are not one of the richest countries of the world. There is clearly a growing recognition in the US that they have achieved a great deal of employment in recent years at the expense of a huge growth in an underclass of society. That has been clearly acknowledged by American policy makers. I spent last Monday and Tuesday in Boston. I was not away for St. Patrick's Day but was attending my home town festivities.

The Minister was one of the few.

Although all the newspapers painted me as one of those who were spending all the State's money being on platforms in far foreign fields from Dunkirk to Belgrade.

The Minister must have been lucky to get home.

I went for only two days.

Acting Chairman

I know that the Minister is working on bilocation but perhaps we could stick to the Bill.

I spoke in Boston to two people who were involved in that debate and there is a growing concern in the US that job creation has been at the expense of marginalising huge areas of population. We are trying to ensure that those who work have decent standards but not at the expense of extra or consolidating employment.

We came late to development. For example, we came late to many curriculum developments in education and I remember going through this when I was in that Department. We have come late to development because of lack of money and so on and have therefore not gone down the seemingly primrose path which turned out to be quite bizarre. Curriculum developments in other countries are scrambling to get back to what we wanted, which was general good standards, broad subjects and no early specialisation. Similarly, with labour legislation we did not go down any obtuse routes but chose instead the route of balance and consensus. People say that consensus is cosy, not creative, and blinds one to job creation. Where would we have been over the last six years without that sense of consensus between the social partners? We quickly forget the chaos which might otherwise have occurred.

Jobs without rights or rights without jobs are meaningless. We are seeking to bring in a balanced approach. Our nearest neighbour across the water makes great play in Europe that it is opting out of the Social Charter in favour of jobs. This is endlessly paraded in front of us. However, it is a charade for domestic political purposes. It is done so that the atavistic nature of some of the members of the ruling party can be satisfied and not on the rational basis of proper intellectual scrutiny of the legislation in hand. I particularly resent the idea that this would gain ground here.

Last year a well known firm of accountants brought out three monthly surveys of ten issues about which employers have worries. They polled a range of employers and concerns about labour legislation came consistently in the last third of the ten issues. Much more concern was expressed about ready access for a sustained period to cheap money. We all know that if employers could get that they would willingly forego all sorts of things.

What I am putting forward today is a result of administrative and political consensus in Europe and at home and consensus in the Dáil and, I hope, the Seanad via debate and amendment. I agree with and strongly commend clarification, which I know we will be discussing later. Simplification and clarification in words and a form which people can understand is the type of deregulation with which I agree and not the type which strips the veneer off what should be proper social behaviour between employers and employees.

None of us will have any more grey hairs over whether this legislation is passed, with all due respects, because it is a directive dated 1991 which should have been passed in the middle of last year. Perhaps if so much time had not been spent on trying to form a Government it would have been passed.

I do not see any real problem with asking the employer to provide, if he is so requested, written information on the terms of employment. Is the commissioner a new type of officer who will be appointed as a result of this legislation? We have the system of the employment appeals tribunal in place, which we all know about.

There is provision for a fine, which I presume will be levied on the employer if he does not provide the information which is requested, or refuses to give evidence or produce documents at the Employment Appeals Tribunal. What about an employee who brings false allegations against an employer? The whole thrust of this seems to be totally biased towards the employee. I am not saying that there is a conflict but just posing the question. The Minister rightly said that the majority of employers and employees are excellent. However, there is always the odd case which makes the headlines. Is there any redress for an employer who is accused by an employee of doing something which it is subsequently proved he did not do?

We were very interested in recent EU directives and what would have happened with regard to all the directives which had been passed since 1973 if a certain court case had not gone the right way. We would have had some fun in this and the other House if that had been the case. It is good for the country long term that did not turn out to be the case, as many good things have been done. A few mistakes were made but we are part of the European Union and we have to ensure that we have the best possible circumstances for employers and employees. It works both ways.

The legislation itself is not going to create a problem and nobody is crying out for it. It is another EU Directive which we are implementing as required. I do not believe many employers are going to worry about this legislation because they are doing their job as it should be done. The only problem is that this is another task for somebody in an office who will have to supply the information as requested. The terms of employment of the majority of people I employed in the past were on a one to one basis. That is how it worked in reality, and I am sure Senator Quinn will inform us how it was done in his company. Trust was basically the order of the day and we are not moving away from that basic trust in this legislation.

I am not going to delay the House because this legislation does not pose any conflict. I ask the Minister to address in her reply the question of an employee bringing a false case against an employer to the tribunal. This legislation will not cause any of us to have any more grey hair than we already have. Some of us had not had the good luck to discover which magic bottle works. I hope this legislation is only enhancing the overall development of what we agreed when we joined Europe and that it is not going to harm companies or anyone thinking of employing people. It will in reality help employer/employee relations and nobody could disagree with that.

Acting Chairman

Thank you Senator Farrelly. At least you have hair.

I suppose that is the next discretion.

I do not know about grey hairs at this stage. We will not go down that road now. I welcome the Minister back with this Bill. As has been said, the purpose of the Bill is to implement the 1991 EC directive. It is welcome in the context of the new way of work which involves more than the traditional 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. job. That seems to be yesterday's talk, as modern life has introduced flexitime, job sharing and contract work. While I hope every job will be pensionable, the concept of permanency is not as obvious as it was in the old style of employment. In that sense legislation which will copperfasten terms and conditions of employment for those working in that environment is welcome.

It is important to have a contract, particularly for those who may be more vulnerable in the context of employment. Most employers are good employers but we have to legislate for those who may take the short cuts when dealing with employees. As the Minister said, the Bill requires the provision of information and openness in employment situations. The meaning of words used must be capable of being understood by the parties to the contract of employment, and the conditions of employment will cover the various aspects of employment, including holidays, sick leave and the nature of the work.

The 1973 Act did not mention the nature of the work or the name and address of the employer. I am pleased this has been tightened up. There are employers who do not wish to disclose where they are working and the people employed by them are one of the most vulnerable groups in society. It is often difficult to pin this down, so I am glad this legislation will tighten that up. It will be difficult to define the nature of work. In the area of communications skills or public relations, it is difficult to describe the nature of the work in legislation. I ask the Minister to elaborate on the definition of the nature of work which is to be included in the contract. It is a little broad and I know the Minister will take my points on board.

The Bill also provides for redress where any of the conditions are not fulfilled by the employer. This is to be welcomed, as is the fact that one can bring proceedings to a rights commissioner, on appeal to the Employment Appeals Tribunal and ultimately to the District Court. Some people may not like this as it will not encourage good working relationships. The legislation introduces openness between the employer and employee and tries to dispel the feeling that the head of the institution and the body of workers should never work together. This thinking derives from the disciplinarian or authoritarian approach which existed in the 1940s. One example of this is the Catholic Church.

It is still there.

I had better watch what I say on that. The Army is another example. One did the job one was asked to do without discussion and the conditions were never laid down. I welcome the openness which will allow an employee to know exactly where he or she stands in any work relationship. The work environment will be more harmonious and people will understand each other.

I welcome the legislation. The points about which I am concerned are the nature of work in section 3 and the need to spell out the requirement that the employer give his name and address. A weakness may arise in the latter area. The issue of compensation should also be addressed. There are certain jobs where employees are moving from place to place and I wonder how much insurance cover they have. The Bill is another step which brings us in line with Europe and modernises our thinking. It acknowledges the new work ethic and the need for legislation to recognise that we are no longer dealing with 9 a.m. to 5 p.m. jobs.

I welcome this Bill. It does not present a problem for a large business such as my own as we have a personnel department which deals with the task of compliance with such legislation. However, I am concerned about the effect it will have on small businesses and I have a practical suggestion for the Minister which would make compliance easier for small businesses. Most enterprises in this country are not big. The overwhelming majority of businesses in Ireland are very small. There are about 160,000 businesses in the country, 98 per cent of which are small businesses. These are the companies we want to nurture because they offer the best hope of creating jobs in the future. I am not suggesting that small businesses should be exempt from the legislation. Knowing one's terms of employment is a basic right and it would be wrong to deprive anybody of that right just because they were working for a small business. We can make it easier for small businesses to comply with this legislation.

If the Minister puts herself in the position of a person running a small business she will realise that on top of all the bureaucratic impositions on the employer, this is another requirement, but unlike a lot of what is required by the State, in this case there is no form to fill in. This time the employer has to sit down and draft a letter to each new employee. What must be in that letter? To know that, the business person will have to buy a copy of this Act and wade through the legal English of it. If the company is a member of IBEC, that organisation will probably do all that for them but the vast majority of small firms are not members of IBEC, they are not even members of either of the associations representing the small firms. Most small firms rely totally on their own assets. How can we make it easier for them?

I suggest that the Department draw up and publish for just a few pence a standard form that small business people can go into a stationery shop or into the post office and buy, as people can do now when they want to make a will. Another precedent would be the model articles of association that form part of the Companies Act. The small business could take the form and fill in the gaps, striking out any of the standard provisions that did not apply in a particular case and adding anything special that did apply. It would then be just a question of making a photocopy of that form, giving one copy to the employee and keeping the other for the files. In this way compliance with the legislation would be easy and practical even for very small business.

If we do not do something like this the legislation will be largely ignored by small businesses. I cannot see where the resources necessary to enforce it on a large scale would come from; if that happened the employees of small businesses would be the losers. I suggest that on Committee Stage the Minister bring forward an amendment to add a Schedule to the Bill incorporating a model letter setting out standard forms of employment. I also suggest that the Bill incorporate a requirement on the Minister to publish this Schedule at a reasonable price so that it can be readily purchased by the many thousands of small firms who would benefit from it.

I wish to add a couple of points about the Minister's interesting speech where she explained the social legislation that was responsible for the introduction of this Bill. I read an article last week "More jobs or good jobs". This was precisely the point the Minister made. I do not think anybody could disagree with this.

Let me tell the Minister of an incident about which I have spoken before because it impressed me. In America in January I met a very successful North American businessman who sits on the boards of a number of companies. He introduced me to the people around the table and told them I come from a country which is a marvellous place to visit on holiday. He told the others there that if they get a chance to visit Ireland for their holidays they should do so. I felt very good. Then he said he is a member of the boards of a number of companies and that he has made it a policy that no board of which he is a member will ever again employ anybody in Ireland. I was aghast. He explained that, in his view, when a company of which he was a board member had to close or decided to close a factory in Ireland they found it very difficult to do so. He described how the Taoiseach spoke to the chairman of the company, how the trade unions and legislation made it difficult, and that the nation as a whole did not seem to understand that not all businesses can succeed for all time. He said we made it so difficult for his company to close a factory and to put people out of work that he has determined that no company of which he is a board member will open a factory in Ireland.

I was jolted by this but it was useful for me to be reminded — I am not talking about this legislation — that every time we bring into being a piece of legislation to protect those of us at work, we must be very careful that we do not at the same time inadvertently act against the interests of those who do not yet have a job. I am happy to say that I do not see any sign of that in this legislation. I am very happy that this legislation should go ahead, but it is a reminder to us that when we legislate for those in work, we must ensure that the legislation will not mean that those who are out of work are less likely to get a job. I am very happy with this Bill and commend it to the House.

I welcome the Minister who is in the House. She always seems to be happy here.

This is a fairly simple Bill. It gives effect to an EU Directive so it is probably welcomed by most people in the labour and trade union movement. I concur with most of what has been said. In terms of the structure of the modern workforce, it is a fact that what are referred to in the Minister's speech as atypical workers are becoming more numerous. The days of the nine to five job, predictability and permanence are, unfortunately, behind us. The growth in the number of atypical workers is a phenomenon of the modern economy.

It is not entirely unfortunate inasmuch as I acknowledge that, in addition to meeting requirements of employers and assisting towards objectives of competitiveness and so on, atypical working hours can also meet the requirements and suit the needs of workers. Many workers have adapted to this, perhaps not willingly initially, and have grown to accept it because it suits their personal or domestic circumstances. A great number of women are in these categories.

I note the provisions of redress to the rights commissioners. The rights commission as an institution has worked with remarkable success in industrial relations and, to my knowledge, this facility is not available in any other country, certainly not in Britain. Its informal nature and conciliatory role has contributed enormously to the maintenance of good industrial relations, and is entirely appropriate that it would become the first step towards redress. It is a simple Bill and one which is to be welcomed by most people. I agree with the points most other Members have made.

I welcome the Minister and her Bill to the House. Like Senator Quinn I feel that the less legislation and bureaucracy there is on employment the better, and I speak here as an employer as well as an employee. As Senator Quinn said, this Bill is nothing but beneficial and it seems odd that we have to bring in this legislation because of EU regulations. I have been amazed to find that employees may not know the name or address of their employer. This legislation is essential.

While the legislation will affect all workers, I believe it will affect women even more than men. Apart from the construction industry, the employment practices of which I cannot understand, women are much more likely than men to be in atypical employment. Some 77 per cent of women's employment is in the service sector and it is in this sector that job description, expected hours of work, place of work and overtime, for example, are often far more vague than in the industrial sector. This is very much to be welcomed. The percentage of married women working has risen from 30 per cent of the female workforce in 1981 to nearly 50 per cent today. A large number of married women are more likely to work part-time in agency or contract work, in seasonal jobs or other casual employment. This legislation will be important for them. I am glad to see that agency workers are being included in this and other legislation, because for a while there was an extraordinary gap where workers employed through an employment agency hardly appeared to be covered by legislation at all.

I want to mention women who work in the services sector, such as nurses, nurses' aids and those in catering. All these women are on call but they are not paid for the time they are on call. In addition, they have very little idea what the job they are called on to do will entail. We have to be flexible and try to legislate for all eventualities. If a tour bus comes in late and all the passengers want high tea, I can understand why the hotel or restaurant owner has to keep workers on for a certain length of time, although we hope it would not happen on a regular basis. I have been shocked by the way some nurses are treated by agencies. A nurse told me that when she was on call she was told to report to work at a hospital at 8 o'clock. It was not a public hospital in the city I am glad to say. But she was not told whether she would be working until midnight or all night until she got there. This is a ridiculous way to organise any nursing schedule and shows very little respect for the employee or those she was supposed to be minding.

A couple of things in the Bill worry me, although I do not know if the Minister can do anything about them. On average women work fewer hours than men, so women are more likely to be affected by the eight hour limit than men. I am worried about women who may be working three mornings a week, which would probably be nine hours, being reduced to eight hours to avoid the legislation. Three mornings per week is a common amount of work for a part-time woman worker. This could also happen with job-sharing — in teaching, for example — where the number of hours worked in a job-sharing position may not be all that much. It would be regrettable if they were excluded from the legislation because of that, although I realise that there has to be some sort of time limit.

Regarding the four weeks, I am worried about people working part-time who could be employed four weeks on and four weeks off. Regrettably, at the moment a lot of major firms keep people on temporary employment for years and years by laying them off for six weeks every now and then. I hope this sort of thing would not negate the legislation. Home workers are not covered by the Bill although they are most vulnerable and do not seem to be protected by any legislation. Nearly all of them are women and, while home workers are less common in Ireland than in many other EU countries, a considerable amount of home working is done here. I would like to see if the Minister could cover them. Their place of work is their home but their work is often delivered by a middle person. The home worker may have no idea whom they are working for, even though the end person might be a large employer. Can the Minister do anything to make sure these workers would at least know the name and address of their real employer? This is important from the point of view of knowing if their PRSI/PAYE is being paid. Perhaps the Minister could include them because they are in a vulnerable position.

I am glad to see that in section 4 the Minister has addressed the issue of workers who are sent abroad to work. Many people have gone abroad with great ideals to work for an Irish-based firm, looking forward to a glowing future, but have come to a sticky end. It was important for the Minister to take such people within the ambit of the legislation. Quite a number of them went off to work overseas and ended up without even having their return fare paid for.

I commend the Bill and cannot see it being considered other than as a good step, both for employers — the vast majority of whom are honourable — and employees.

I wish to join other Members in welcoming the legislation. In my view it will not be an impediment to the creation of employment despite the fact that in recent times the view has been expressed that the multiplicity of legislation in this area is inhibiting the creation of industry and business, especially in the small business sector. It has been said that further chapters of legislation, rather than protecting those in employment, will have the opposite effect. This legislation is desirable and fits into the overall approach the Minister has adopted on social policy, an area which is topical both here and in the European Commission. The Minister's Green Paper on Social Policy will provide something similar to what we have in education; a focus on the priority areas that need attention.

I would like further clarification on some aspects of this legislation. For instance, section 8 mentions the District Court while section 9 mentions the High Court. I am not sure about the purpose of the difference in the court's jurisdiction. One complaint I have made previously is that in giving effect to rights commissioners' or Labour Court judgments, if an employer decides to down tools and not comply with a recommendation, private litigation has to be embarked upon in the High Court by the aggrieved person. I felt this was an omission in previous legislation. Some employees found to their cost that even though they had a rights commissioner or a Labour Court decision granting them awards, they were not able to claim them if an employer ignored them. The employee then had to have recourse to the High Court, which is very expensive. It is evident also that the High Court might not necessarily be bound by the decision of either the rights commissioner or the Labour Court. Could a similar situation arise in relation to sections 8 and 9? In the event of an employee going through all these procedures in the District Court, can they be sure of getting whatever entitlements they were granted?

I am also concerned about cases of transfers, buy-outs or takeover bids by companies in relation to existing companies that have been in operation for many years, There is widespread anxiety among the employees of Shannon Repair Services — a wholly owned subsidiary of Aer Lingus — about negotiations by Aer Lingus to sell off that operation. The workers want to know how their pension rights and other entitlements will be protected in a new arrangement. While the employees would have no particular objection to a new arrangement, they feel they could lose out substantially. Some employees could lose up to £50,000 or £60,000 in the event of a new company making the employees redundant in a year's time rather than getting redundancy under the terms of the Cahill plan. Such information is necessary, particulary in small firms like this one which has about 110 employees. Some of the employees gave 40 years' service to the company and may be faced with severe loss as a result of the takeover bid. Can this situation be covered in legislation? Will this legislation be retrospective or does it apply from the date it is passed? How does it affect the 1973 legislation? It is 21 years since we debated that legislation in the Oireachtas. Until this legislation was introduced, I understood that these matters were covered by the 1973 legislation. There were inadequacies in that legislation and I understand the necessity to amend the 1973 Act to deal with them. However, I am not certain how this legislation relates to the 1973 Act. Perhaps the Minister would clarify that.

A system of good employer-employee relations through the provision of comprehensive information to employees is in the best interests of industry generally, of owners, management and employees. Now we have an opportunity to deal with some of the inadequacies in previous legislation.

I welcome the Bill and compliment the Minister for introducing it. I also compliment her on her initiative in organising the conference to be held later this month.

I apologise to the Minister and the House because I will be obliged to extemporise to some extent. The arrangements for today's sitting were changed and, as a result, 50 per cent of the Progressive Democrat Front Bench is absent. That puts us at a disadvantage.

You also have no gender balance.

We have a 50 per cent gender balance.

Not this minute.

My colleague is unfortunately absent from the House and from the country, unlike the Minister who told us earlier that she had stayed here. The late change in the Order of Business has put me at a disadvantage.

However, I wish to make some observations on the Bill. I support the Bill. It is sensible to have formal arrangements between employer and employee, provided they are simple and that the language is explicit. This is the era of EU directives and we must abide by them. However the question of how many directives we have not complied with arises. We have ignored many of them. One could ask if this directive is one with which we should deal. Directives are issued in succession so it is appropriate that we should.

My reservation about the Bill is similar to that expressed by Senator Quinn. At a time when we have almost 300,000 people unemployed, when we are trying to create an enterprise culture and to encourage employment we are introducing another impediment to potential employers. This is particularly relevant to the small business sector which Senator Quinn mentioned. That sector accounts for 98 per cent of employment. I can understand its relevance from personal experience being a farmer who, until two years ago, had one employee. At one time the same farm employed four people and most people involved in agriculture remember such a time. However, that is a sign of the times.

Two years ago I had one employee but it reached the stage where a person spent so much time in the office that he was no longer a farmer. We have become a collection agency for the State; we are involved in the collection of PRSI. I accept that we must be involved in the PRSI system. However, it reaches the point where the system descends upon us at such a rate that we throw up our arms in despair. The handiest thing to do is to——

Go to Europe.

I am glad the Minister has such confidence in my ability to get to Europe. I hope I can remind her of her comment on 12 June.

The Senator will be seeking my vote.

Small employers face this problem. It astonishes me, when observing the Leader groups throughout the country in my journalistic capacity, to see such energy in communities, individuals and small businesses. Ideas are bubbling all over the country. Our people are not deficient. We sometimes talk ourselves down as if we were not capable of formulating ideas and creating jobs. The ideas are there. What prevents those ideas from coming to fruition? What prevents people from taking the risks involved? As Senator Quinn said, what is wrong with failure? If a company must unfortunately go under, we should pick up the pieces and carry on. There should be no stigma attached to such failure.

In that context I consider another layer of legislation — not the provisions of this Bill — on top of many other layers as counter productive to the enterprise culture we are trying to foster; it is counterproductive to creating jobs. That is not to say that people in employment should not be protected. I agree with the Minister's comments on the Social Charter in the Maastricht Treaty. It is not right that the British can unilaterally withdraw from something that is to the benefit of workers throughout the EU in their own selfish domestic interests. We had further evidence of that this week, although I do not wish to diverge from the content of the Bill. Once again the British do not seem to understand the consensus approach to European politics. On the issue of enlargement — which we all support — they again have the dog in the manger attitude which I find difficult to accept.

There is a serious obligation on the State to make legislative provisions easy to understand and easy to implement. I get very uncomfortable with some of the language in this Bill. Recently I read the provisions of old legislation in the Library. It would be worthwhile for the parliamentary draftspersons to examine old legislation — some of which was drafted when we were ruled by Britain — and see how clear, simple and explicit the language is. I wonder if we are creating industry for lawyers rather than creating regulations for the benefit of society. The Bill states:

"employer", in relation to an employee, [we are back to "in relation to" again. It is a phrase I avoided for several months because it caused problems for me. However, it is included in the Bill although I do not understand why we must always use the phrase.] means the person with whom the employee has entered into or for whom the employee works under (or, where the employment has ceased, entered into or worked under) a contract of employment subject to the qualification that the person who under a contract of employment referred to in paragraph (b) of the definition of "contract of employment" is liable to pay the wages of the individual concerned in respect of the work or service concerned shall be deemed to be the individual's employer;

What does that mean? I can imagine a poor shopkeeper who is employing a shop assistant burning the midnight oil trying to tease out whether he is an employer under this Bill. He would have a fascinating time trying to work that out.

The ultimate abuse of the English language is to say that a "reference to 21 hours shall be construed as a reference to eight hours". This marks a new departure in the ability of the State to redefine time. We have now reached the point where the State can say that 21 hours is no longer 21 hours but eight hours. I congratulate the State on having achieved that state of enlightenment.

Alice in Wonderland— it is, because I say it is.

I do not share Senator Ormonde's reservations about the nature of work because, in this instance, the language is explicit. It refers to the title of the job or the nature of the work. If one puts down the title of the job, it would seem to imply the nature of the work does not then need to be defined. That may overcome Senator Ormonde's difficulties with the Bill.

I welcome the fact that any terms or conditions relating to pensions and pension schemes come within the scope of the Bill. It is a major difficulty for employees in certain areas of employment to find out what their rights are, to what they are entitled under pension schemes and the status of the scheme.

I have a reservation about tribunals, commissioners and additional layers of bureaucracy. Section 8 (6) (a) refers to the" ...recommendation of a rights commissioner in relation to a complaint under this Act... without hearing the employer concerned..." I am prepared to accept that several steps will have to be taken before that point is reached. However, it seems to be contrary to natural justice that an employer could not present evidence, even at that point. I ask the Minister to comment on this.

I appeal to those who are drafting legislation, especially in an area like this to use language as it is meant to be used and not as a device for lawyers to bring actions to higher courts so that the legislation can be challenged.

Senator Dardis and I seem to be singing the same song from the one hymn book. If only I could get the Senator over to the parliamentary draftsmen's office. My officials are laughing because this is also a constant theme of mine. Complaining about simplifying the language in Bills only seems to come up in this House when I speak; it seems to be a protest against me.

Senator Dardis asked how 21 hours could suddenly become eight hours in this Bill. This is due to the Part-Time Workers Bill, 1991, which gave rights to those who worked eight hours or more. In one neat sentence, it gives a person working under eight hours the same eligibility as one working 21 hours. Senator Dardis was making the point in the wider context of gobbledegook as I called it when I came to this House last May. Legislation could be couched in words which are understandable and normal. There might not be as many cases if the legislation could be simplified. I echo Senator Dardis' sentiments. I hope that in some dusty recess, the draftsmen are listening and will seek to implement it, but I would not hold my breath.

I thank Senators for their contributions to the debate; all were welcome. Senator Farrelly referred to the rights commissioners who have been with us for some time. He asked what would happen to an employer who would refuse to attend. He also asked if an employee who made a false claim would be subject to the £1,000 fine? Experience has shown that it is not the general practice of employees to bring spurious claims to adjudication bodies. It takes up too much time and requires a lot of knowledge. Generally, the cases brought involve employers — I stress they are a small number — who have employed workers under spurious conditions. The Senator said it should be a matter of trust between employers and employees. We heartily echo that view, but trust has to find a legislative outlet.

Senator Ormonde referred to the new era of flexibility in employment. Senator Maloney and Senator Henry also said that an increasing number of women are entering this type of employment because it suits them. I understand that argument because many women want to job share. However, I caution women against rushing into what could be seen as marginalised employment. There is a difference between flexibility and one's rights inherent in that. Women take upon themselves the burden of being constantly in flexible employment with their rights not being guaranteed. There is a balance to be maintained.

Because of young children, aged relations, the need for more leisure time or declining health, it may suit one's domestic requirements to work in this type of employment. It is good if it can be brought forward, but there lies within it the seeds of danger. More women will take that route to employment and will not be seen to have rights and standards of employment, and more importantly, ladders of progression within proper professions. It is too easy to say that is the type of employment women want and send them along that route.

Senator Quinn brought forward an interesting proposal. Rather than having employers wrestling with this legislation, the Department could issue a standard form. This is a simple and good idea. This matter will be discussed further on Committee Stage because it is a conduit of practical compliance which would be interesting for employers. When a Bill is brought out, a smaller and clearer version of what it contains is also made available. Introducing a model form for employers in tandem with that should also be examined. A simple booklet and standardised forms for small businesses were brought out, for example, in the health and safety area.

Senator Maloney referred to the Bill, the rights commissioners and said the Labour Party would support all it contains. He also said that women want atypical work situations. Senator Henry said that since 77 per cent of female employment is in the services sector the need to protect this employment is stronger. I am glad agency workers are covered under the Bill.

Nurses were referred to on Committee Stage of this Bill in the Dáil. When nurses are on call they have to be ready to go on duty at a moment's notice. They cannot make simple domestic arrangements; they do not know if they must get a babysitter. They may need to plan ahead because they could be working up to eight hours when they are on call. Senator Henry also mentioned the necessity to provide an atmosphere of serenity for those in their care. Would the nine hours be cut to eight to obviate the needs of compliance? In many cases, all sorts of stratagems are put in place to obviate legislation. I am sure there are many tax people who try to get around the tax measures the State seeks to implement. It seems an industry is created from each piece of legislation.

I had not thought about home workers, but I know what the Senator is talking about. People who work in their homes are given work by middle persons and their location is well known. We were glad we were able to include contracts abroad.

Senator Daly mentioned the focus on priorities and the differences between the District Court and the High Court. I gave the Senator a note which says that a point in law goes to the High Court. He also asked me about a company buy-out and what happens when it goes into other hands. I will discuss that on Committee Stage. It is a relevant question and one which was mentioned on Committee Stage in the Dáil. The legislation is not retrospective.

Senator Daly also asked me about a take-over, particularly in relation to an aircraft maintenance company in Shannon, which is a fully owned subsidiary of Aer Lingus. It was reported there was disquiet among the workers at present. They would be reasonably satisfied with a take-over if their rights were guaranteed. I will ask the officials from my Department to refer this issue to the relevant section in the Department and to reply to the Senator directly.

Senator Ormonde was perplexed about the nature of the work. As Senator Dardis pointed out, this is an either or situation. Either one relates to the nature of the work, or——

The title of the job.

—— its description. The nature of the work means whether one is a clerical, manual or sedentary worker. Senator Dardis apologised for his colleague, Senator Honan, who is interested in this legislation. While welcoming this legislation, he wanted to know if it would impede small businesses because people would be snowed under with forms which needed to be completed. Senator Quinn's practical suggestion seeks to redress that situation. I take the Senator's point about the need for simplification and I hope the parliamentary draftsman will bear it in mind.

I thank the Senators who contributed to this worthwhile debate. I was glad to listen to the contributions and I look forward to Committee Stage.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Tuesday, 29 March 1994.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

When is it proposed to sit again?

Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.

Barr
Roinn