Today's Order of Business is Item No. 1, Statements on South Africa. I know the House was extremely keen to discuss this matter at the first opportunity. I thank the Tánaiste and his Office for their co-operation. We are having this debate today on the basis that the Foreign Affairs Estimates are being discussed in Committee at the moment, so the Minister will not be available until 2.30 p.m. He will reply to the House at 2.30 p.m. I suggest that we allow 20 minutes per person, with a sos between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m.
Order of Business.
I thank the Leader of the House for the speedy response to the requests from all sides for a debate on the recent developments in South Africa. I know that the Minister will not be present, but that is by agreement. We said on a number of occasions that it was not always necessary to have a Minister in the House when matters of public importance are being discussed and I gather the Minister will be coming in to respond to the debate.
I asked the Leader of the House last week about the possibility of having a debate on the recently published Bill by the national newspapers of Ireland on defamation. I pointed out that it would not be appropriate for either the Government or the Opposition to run with a privately printed Bill. Bills should be authored by groups within the House, but the issues raised in this Bill are of great importance. When the Minister was in the House previously he said that this issue was way down on his list of priorities and that because of a log jam in the draftsman's office, a Bill could not be produced. Now that a Bill is available and a group has gone to the trouble of bringing in a very careful presentation of important issues, this House should at least take the matter seriously. We should have a debate over the next two or three weeks, even a two or three hour debate, on the issues raised. Reform is needed in this area. We all have very strong views in this area, both for and against the way in which the major political issues are treated by the various sections of the media. It is not a question of saying that this is a good Bill and that we will use it. Serious issues have been raised and we as politicians might have views which run counter to the views expressed in that Bill.
I ask the Leader of the House to tell us when it is proposed to take the Finance Bill and how much time the House intends to devote to it.
I have raised before with the Leader of the House the need to have a discussion on the area of education. Before people turn off on this, I wish to indicate that on a number of occasions recently there have been discussions about the powers of local authorities. There is an intense debate going on at the moment about the establishment of regional educational conferences among all the various interests in education. During the discussion on the Programme for Competitiveness and Work, a number of Members of this House put forward the viewpoint that politicians felt excluded from part of the process, people who were not involved with the Government parties. It would be very useful at this stage to have a general debate on educational developments in the light of the Government's plan to publish a White Paper in the near future. I would like this House to concentrate on the role that politics plays in the establishment of educational policy because there are two views on this matter. Some people think politicians should have nothing to do with education policy. I take the view, as does my organisation, that politicians have a very valid contribution to make in any democracy towards the development of educational policy, which after all determines the future of the State. Those kind of things are important. It is also important to relate it to the importance of local democracy and the sort of input without control that should be there at local political level. These issues need to be teased out in a way which puts local authority members in a positive light in the educational structure. I would welcome such a debate and it could only be positive. It should happen now while matters are being planned rather than after the planning.
Next week is the 20th anniversary of the murders of 32 people in Dublin and Monaghan in the infamous bombings there. There is more than a suspicion that agents of another state participated in the bombings. There is also a suspicion that members of Government at the time and members of subsequent Governments may be aware of facts which have never been made public. It is now time that we might have a discussion on the investigations into these horrors and the stage they have reached. It would help the survivors, who still carry the pain and suffering every day of their lives and particularly on every anniversary. The 20th anniversary is on 17 May and the Seanad should make time to consider this affair.
I support Senator O'Toole's request to the leader to initiate an education debate, with particular reference to the role of local elected representatives. There is no doubt that element of public involvement in education is under direct attack and there is a view abroad that local elected politicians should have nothing to do with education. Any system which is publicly funded but, in the main, privately owned has to have the involvement of public representatives at all levels — the "he who pays the piper" principle must operate.
If I may blow the trumpet of politicians, I would say that they have made enormous contributions to education across a wide spectrum. There would not be a prisoner educated or even half trained without the involvement of people in vocational education committees — politicians who saw a need. There would not be a traveller's child catered for if it was not for politicians who went against the trend even of their own local communities. I support Senator O'Toole's request. A debate is needed and this House is the best place for it, because it is a more reflective place without the heat of battle.
In response to Senator Manning's call for a debate on the Private Defamation Bill, I will arrange for the Whips to have a meeting to discuss it. We would be keen to have such a debate and this House would be an ideal forum for such a discussion. There will be different views, but the debate will bring those out.
The Finance Bill will be dealt with next week with all day sittings on Wednesday and Thursday, and the possibility of sitting on Friday depending on progress.
We will definitely have a debate on education. This House has had some positive debates and we will discuss the matter with the Minister to ensure that we deal with the issue in the near future.
I will communicate with Senator Roche on the issue he raised.
Order of Business agreed to.