Vol. 143 No. 3
A Chathaoirligh, you are very welcome back and have our every good wish.
It is proposed to take item 1 until 6 p.m. with 30 minutes for the first speaker and 20 minutes for each speaker thereafter, if that is agreeable. From 6 p.m. until 8 p.m. it is proposed to take item 9, motion 18.
I endorse the sentiments expressed by the Leader to you, Sir. The Order of Business is agreed. In view of the expertise available in this House of television and the print media I ask the Leader for an early debate on the Green Paper on Broadcasting. This House should have an opportunity to discuss the social housing document produced yesterday. I note from some of the phrases used throughout the document that a script writer of days gone by is still in the Department.
On a number of previous occasions I raised the need for a regular debate on foreign affairs. It is now time to get definite dates for this debate. I also suggested that foreign affairs issues might be discussed once a month. If this is not acceptable to the Leader, we will have to raise issues, say, on the Order of Business. Over the last month I have raised a number of issues with the Foreign Affairs Committee. If we can deal with issues at a particular time each month rather than raise matters piecemeal in the House, that would be a more ordered approach. I would like a clear position on that. Today I met with some people from a country where one sixth of its population are refugees. This is an instance of the kind of thing that is happening in certain parts of the world but we are not aware of it because it has not received even one line of newspaper coverage.
I also ask the Leader for the date of the debate on the White Paper on Education. This document will be discussed in the Dáil tomorrow; he indicated previously that it would probably be discussed in this House some time this month. The earlier it is discussed, the better. Last week Senator Mullooly put forward the case that the debate should be held over a number of days and I support that. However, in his response the Leader gave the impression that it might roll over a number of days. I would prefer if it were structured in such a way that specific aspects of the debate were dealt with on particular days — for instance, the political relationship with education, third level education, primary education and the involvement of parents in education — rather than simply spread over a number of days. By putting a structure on it the Minister will be able to respond in a cleaner way. I would like to hear the views of the Leader on that.
I wish to raise two matters with the Leader. First, what is going to happen to our Defence Forces? Since Christmas there have been repeated requests for a debate on the Defence Forces. There have been leaks about the EAG report, the Price Waterhouse report and now we have phase three of the leaking when we read in the papers what is proposed for the Defence Forces. The appropriate place to have this matter discussed is here, not in the press. The Minister should come here and tell us clearly what is proposed for the future of the Defence Forces. I am under the impression that I had a commitment from the Leader before the House adjourned for Easter that we would have such a debate, but my impatience is not yet such that I have checked the record. I ask the Leader to arrange a discussion on that matter at an early date.
The House also needs to discuss banking. There were several requests from the other side of the House for a discussion on this matter. Given the excellent document produced by Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, it would be interesting to tease out the unanimity or otherwise of views on the Government benches about banking and the possible need for a third force.
That is unfair.
Perhaps this matter could also be discussed at an early date.
I also wish to raise the issue of banking. As I understand it, legislation which was promised did not include any measures to reform the banking system. There are reports in newspapers today that such matters are being considered. I join Senator Dardis in the call for an early debate on banking. This will ensure that we get the Government position, rather than separate views being discussed in newspapers which undermines the system and confidence in it abroad.
I hope the Leader of the House will arrange a debate on the Government proposals, as distinct from the different and diverse views which are being floated from Government. This does nothing to establish confidence in the banking system. Senator Dardis and I are of the one view on this matter and I hope a debate will be arranged soon.
When is it proposed to introduce the legislation which was promised before the end of last month to amend the Arterial Drainage Act, 1945? If it is not possible to introduce this Bill as a matter of urgency, I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the lack of action to deal with arterial drainage problems throughout the country, particularly in south Galway.
To date, householders have received no money, even though some of them have been out of their houses for up to 16 weeks. There has also been the unusual situation where a Minister of State promised money for drainage work carried out in south Galway, but the Secretary of the Department of Arts, Culture and the Gaeltacht wrote to the local paper and stated that no approval had been given for any such project by the Department. Ministers are criticising one another while people are suffering. The situation has reached crisis point.
Does the Senator have a question for the Leader?
I want a debate on this issue or the introduction of the Bill.
I have a certain degree of sadness and concern regarding the Arterial Drainage Bill. While I use terms such as "concern" and "sadness", I am tempted to use the word "outrage". I do not have much experience in this House. However, approximately eight weeks ago, Senator Daly introduced an Arterial Drainage Bill, which received quite an amount of support. At that time, when the Minister, Deputy Higgins, asked the House to delay accepting Senator Daly's Bill to facilitate the introduction of a Government Bill, I stated:
It comes down to speed. I went to the Minister today and put it to him how important I felt this matter was. He has told me the heads of the Bill went to Cabinet yesterday, [1 March] and were approved, and to the Parliamentary Draftsman today. He has given me a commitment and asked me to pass it on to the House that the Bill will be published before 30 April...
Last week, I asked the Leader of the House when the Bill will be published. As far as I am concerned, a solemn undertaking was given to the House, but I heard nothing until I checked with the Leader today. This is a serious breach of trust; the House is being treated with a lack of respect. We were given a solemn undertaking by the Minister that it would be published. Therefore, a number of us, on a very tight vote, decided to vote against Senator Daly's Arterial Drainage Bill and to support the Government's undertaking to publish a Bill before 30 April. We have heard nothing since then. This House is being shown a lack of respect and we should not accept such a standard. I put it to the Leader that I will have great difficulty in supporting the Order of Business unless we ate given an undertaking which will explain to me why this House is being shown such a lack of respect.
I agree with Senator O'Toole that it is time that the House discussed the White Paper on Education. It has to be said that the introduction of the White Paper, which was a watershed in Irish education, has been somewhat overshadowed by the ongoing dispute over early retirement for teachers, which is very important in its own right. I sincerely hope that this White Paper will come before the House in the very near future.
I agree with Senators Fahey and Quinn with regard to the Arterial Drainage Bill. However, I am sure that there must be a genuine reason why this Bill is not before the House because the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Higgins, has shown a commitment second to none and has gone far beyond the call of duty in his dedication to bringing about a solution to the terrible problems facing householders, particularly in the Gort area of County Galway. I am sure there is a reason which will be explained to the House and that the Bill will be in the House in the very near future.
However, it would be remiss of me, as someone who comes from that area, not to pay tribute to the Minister of State, Deputy Jim Higgins, for his commitment and dedication in trying to find a permanent solution to the problems of the people of east Galway, a problem which has been ongoing for many years and about which very little has been done up to now.
I support my colleague, Senator O'Toole, in relation to the presentation of the White Paper, which contains a huge amount of information. Could the Leader give us some indication of the format of the presentation? I suggest that we should divide it into three areas — primary, post primary and adult education — because there is too much involved. I ask the Leader to take that into account.
The White Paper has not been circulated yet to every school and teachers are very conscious that it is a very important document which they would like to read. Before we discuss it here, there should be knowledge about it outside this House. I ask the Leader to be aware of that and to give an indication of when the Minister is likely to discuss the White Paper here and how long it will take.
I support the Leader of the Opposition in his call to the Leader of the House in relation to the Green Paper on Broadcasting. I hope that there will be early opportunity to debate that.
There have been recent media reports of a growing sense in the community of a level of intolerance and racism which is beginning to express itself in our society. This is unacceptable. In that context, could I ask the Leader if his Government colleague, the Minister for Equality and Law Reform, would come into this House to listen to a debate on the whole area of the lack of laws in this country to outlaw discrimination on the grounds of race, colour and creed? I know that this has been an ongoing matter over the last couple of years, but it has come to the fore today because of two incidents which happened over the last week. These incidents angered me greatly, as they did many other people.
The first incident was the media reports on the relatives of those who were tragically killed in County Kerry. On whether there is truth in the comments made by the survivors about the attitudes of their neighbours I do not wish to comment, but the matter was raised and statements were made.
The second and more relevant matter is the inquest which took place this week with regard to an 18 year old Irish national of Vietnamese origin and the reports of his relatives who talked of the manner in which they had been subjected to racial abuse due to their origins. A great welcome was given to the Vietnamese boat people some years ago and it is totally unacceptable that these people who had to flee from persecution are now being subjected to racial abuse in this country. It does not sit rightly with our image as a caring and compassionate society.
In that context, I ask the Leader to find out from the Minister for Equality and Law Reform what stage he has reached in formulating laws which will outlaw such unsavoury and unacceptable practices in our society.
I repeat my request of last week to the Leader as to whether it is possible for the Minister for Justice to come to the House to update us on the drugs situation in Cork. I have no objection to having a discussion on the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte's ideas on the banking system. We should have a debate in the near future to broaden out our ideas.
The Leader has promised several Senators there will be a full debate on Northern Ireland. In the light of the important conference on the development of the Border regions and Northern Ireland which will be held in Washington towards the end of this month, will the Leader make time available for this House to have an input into the economic progress needed for the Border regions and Northern Ireland? Approaching developments in Northern Ireland from an economic point of view would be a positive step.
I support my colleague, Senator Quinn, in his comments on the failure of the Government to produce the arterial drainage legislation. He was given an undertaking; but I cast my mind back some years to a session of this House when my colleague, Senator O'Toole, was given an undertaking which was not met. The then leader of Fianna Fáil when questioned on this replied that it was an undertaking but not an absolute undertaking. Perhaps what was given to Senator Quinn on this occasion was not absolute. It is important that we press for an answer from the Leader on this matter.
In the debate on this issue I made that point that I was an Independent Senator who sometimes voted with the Government and sometimes against it. On this issue I had three requirements which I had discussed with Senator Manning and Senator Cosgrave: first, that the most valuable suggestions made by Fianna Fáil in the Bill would be accepted and introduced by the Government in its legislation; second, that this legislation would be introduced in the Seanad; and, third, that there would be a realistic timescale within which the legislation would be introduced. I said at the time that I had been satisfied as to all three criteria. It appears that I was inadvertently misled and I look forward to the Leader's explanation.
I support Senator Mooney's call for a debate on the question of discrimination. I imagine he was leading up to asking the Leader of the House for a timescale. I understand there has been a commitment given to the introduction of an anti-discrimination Bill. I am most interested in this legislation, which is overdue. It will now be supported by Fianna Fáil, which is a pleasant alteration of the previous position.
Finally, I ask the Leader for a debate on a survey published today which those of us who are committed Europeans would find most worrying. It shows that 30 per cent of Irish businesses experience serious difficulty in dealing with our European partners, especially Germany, France and the UK. They experienced discrimination against Irish products in favour of goods domestically generated within these countries, obfuscation by the authorities, and deliberate delays in processing documentation. It is worrying that 30 per cent of our business people are experiencing these problems when the internal market has been completed and that we are still being discriminated against by our partners in Europe in this fashion when there is supposed to be a free flow of labour, services and goods.
I call for a debate on tourism. There is enormous potential for the expansion of this industry, especially when the peace process in Northern Ireland is taken into account. I ask the Leader to arrange such a debate at an early date. I support the call for a debate on banking and the control of banks in Ireland.
I also support the call for an immediate debate on the Arterial Drainage Bill, which is supposed to come before this House. I raised this issue last week and the Leader gave me a guarantee that the Bill was near publication. The Minister, Deputy Higgins, must be complimented for trying to find a solution to a serious problem.
I look forward to the Leader's explanation why the Arterial Drainage Bill is not before us today. As has been said already, the Bill I introduced, having been examined in detail, was broadly accepted on all sides of the House. Senator Quinn is right to say he was misled because contrary to what was said by other speakers, a firm commitment and a firm date was given by the Minister. That is on the record of the House.
This is a serious situation and I ask the Leader to make a clear statement now. It is not acceptable to say this is still with the draftsman and has yet to go back to Government. We were given solemn undertakings that this legislation, which will be broadly similar to the Bill I produced, as the Minister has since acknowledged, would be introduced at the end of last month. This is most unsatisfactory.
I too support the call for a debate on banking institutions, which has been mentioned here for the last number of months. I also support Senator Fahey's comments on the Arterial Drainage Bill. It is of major concern both in Galway and in my county, Kerry. Members are asked daily when the legislation will be introduced.
I ask the Minister of Social Welfare to come to the House for a full debate on cutbacks in FÁS schemes. This is a serious setback to local and community groups which have done tremendous work throughout the country, showing great spirit and enthusiasm. The Minister should explain what he intends doing with FÁS in the future.
I will begin by replying to the questions on the arterial drainage Bill. I, too, regret that it was not possible to meet the commitment to publish the Bill by the end of April. The position is that the Bill has been completed. There was a last minute legal question which has been sorted out, but not in time for yesterday's Government meeting. It is on the agenda and will be cleared at next Tuesday's Cabinet meeting and will be available next week.
There were three parts to the commitment. The second and substantial part was that the Bill would be taken in this House and that will be the case. It was also said that the Bill would be in this House before the end of May. I can guarantee that the Bill will not just be in this House before the end of May but, if I get co-operation from all sides, the Bill will be through this House well before the end of May and whatever time is needed will be made available. There was no attempt to mislead the House. There was a genuine last minute legal hitch in the drafting of the Bill. I have been pressing very hard to ensure that the Bill is given top priority as has the Minister of State, Deputy Higgins, and the Taoiseach.
The Bill will be through Cabinet next Tuesday and it will be published straight away. I will make time available at the first possible opportunity in the month of May to have the Bill debated in this House. I will give it as much time as is needed to ensure that we are on schedule from this House by the end of May. That is the substance of the matter at hand. I apologise that the Bill was not published as indicated but that is the position at present.
Senator Wright raised the Green Paper on Broadcasting. We would all welcome a debate on that fairly soon. Senator O'Toole raised the question of foreign affairs. I propose that we would make a couple of hours available on a Thursday afternoon once a month for a foreign affairs debate. I would be happy to start that regular series of foreign affairs debates tomorrow week. I would like an input from the Members of the Foreign Affairs Committee to ensure we are not reinventing wheels or doing work that is being done by that committee. We can start that debate tomorrow week.
When a debate on the White Paper on Education was raised by Senator O'Toole, it was originally intended that it would just be a one off session of about three hours, with the Minister replying, as we have had in two recent debates. I now realise that will not be sufficient and I am happy to meet with Members of the House. The debate will be open ended and will go on as long as people need to speak on it. I would be happy to talk to Members of the House who have an interest in the debate to see if we could structure it under headings of first level, second level, third level and so on. Perhaps we could talk about that after the Order of Business.
Senator Dardis raised the question of defence. I gather the Minister will be happy to come in and talk about defence and I will convey the Senator's invitation to him. I think his mind is clear on what has to be done and that can be arranged. We must have a debate on banking. We tried briefly at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges last week to find a structure for the debate on banking so we would not be covering old ground and could debate it in a structured way. We did not come to any great agreement as to what we should do. I will try again to get some sort of agreement on that and the debate can then go ahead.
I share Senator Mooney's sentiments regarding discrimination and I will convey what he has said to the Minister. I am not sure if Senator Mulcahy was urging that we have observers at the conference in Washington. There is a debate on Northern Ireland due soon and it will include the point made by Senator McGowan on a number of occasions that we look at the question of cross-Border aid, co-operation and development. I will convey to the Minister for Justice the question of drugs in Cork.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
No.
