Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 10 Jul 1996

Vol. 148 No. 12

Order of Business.

Mr. Manning

Before coming to the Order of Business, this is the last official day of the session. We will be coming back for one day but this is the natural end to this session. I take this opportunity to thank you, a Cathaoirleach, for the exemplary way in which you have guided our affairs during the past session. You have been fairness personified. I thank the staff of the House for their great help to Members, often under difficult circumstances, late at night with late amendments and so on, all of whom have shown great impartiality.

I also thank the ushers and the other staff of the House. Today by coincidence marks the last time in this House of Dermot McCarthy who has been an usher for 27 years. He has been a friend to all of us during that time and has upheld the very high standards which the ushers have led us all to expect over that time. On behalf of the House I thank Dermot McCarthy, and the other ushers, and wish him well in his retirement.

In thanking you, a Cathaoirleach, I thank also the Leas-Cathaoirleach. There is something about the Roscommon air which seems to mean that ownership of those august offices belong to that part of the country. Both you and the Leas-Chathaoirleach have set an example which will be hard to follow.

I also thank the media, especially our regular reporters. If we feel we are not getting sufficient or fair coverage it is not their fault. We have got a fair crack of the whip from them and we appreciate their help. I wish to record the thanks of all Members of the House.

It is intended to take items Nos. 1 and 2. It is proposed that item No. 1 will conclude not later than 4 p.m. and the Minister will be called not later than 3.55 p.m. Contributions will be ten minutes per person. Members may share time. Item No. 2 will commence at 4 p.m. With the agreement of the House we will take all Stages today. I suggest 15 minutes per speaker for item No. 2.

An Cathaoirleach

Before calling Senator Wright I join in extending my thanks to all Members for their co-operation and courtesy during the term and to the staff of the Seanad who sometimes have a very difficult job to do.

Mr. Wright

I add my voice to the words of congratulations and thanks which the Leader has spoken on our behalf in relation to you, your able assistants and all those associated with the House, the ushers, including Dermot, and the press office.

In relation to item No. 2 we want the Courts Bill passed today and that will be arranged.

Following his appointment yesterday I wish Pat Byrne well in a most difficult time. I am confident he has the energy and commitment to carry out the role given to him by the Government for the next seven years. I hope in that time he will be able to put his imprimatur on society by his commitment to the force and to all the issues he announced he wants to achieve. I also wish the retiring commissioner, Paddy Culligan, well in future.

Mr. O'Toole

We on the Independent benches would like to be associated with the words of thanks to the staff of the House, including the ushers. I thank the Roscommon team of you and the Leas-Chathaoirleach, for your help and courtesy in various ways during the term.

I say a special word to Dermot — I always have one bit of advice to retiring public servants — you think you have beaten the system when you receive the pension. In fact you have beaten the system when you have been collecting the pension longer than you have been working. That is the real objective.

I reiterate a point I made yesterday that it is not appropriate at this stage when a word or act can be misinterpreted and taken out of context regarding the position in the North but I ask the Leader to give serious consideration to a recall of the Seanad, if that is appropriate, over the next number of months when the situation has calmed, if it does, so that there can be an informed discussion in which people could give their views. Members of the House have much to say on this issue. We all agree that this is not the appropriate time to do it and I am not suggesting it is. However, the issue needs to be raised at some stage.

I have not said anything until now on the Bord na Móna issue and I realise we will not have an opportunity to do so in the next few weeks. I ask the Leader to convey to the Government the seriousness of the position where an important semi-State body is being torn apart. The person who made a success of it should continue the work. If wrong was done, it should be corrected and if reprimands or actions need to be taken, they should be taken.

An Cathaoirleach

We cannot discuss the matter now.

Mr. O'Toole

As a public representative with an interest in the semi-State sector, I believe decisions should focus on the future of the company, not on what might have happened.

An Cathaoirleach

We cannot discuss the matter on the Order of Business.

Mr. O'Toole

The matter should be considered on the basis of the number of workers and jobs involved.

Mr. Dardis

I join Members in thanking you, Sir, the staff, ushers and members of the press gallery for their support during the year. I wish the Members a nice summer break, although, with the exception of Members on the University benches, it will not be a break.

Mr. O'Toole

We can explore that later.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator Dardis should ask something relevant to the Order of Business.

Mr. O'Toole

That is a cheap farmer's jibe, the people who sow seeds in spring and do not go back to look at them until the autumn. That is the right job to have.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator O'Toole has already contributed.

Mr. Dardis

I also wish Dermot McCarthy a long and fruitful retirement. I join the Leader of Fianna Fáil in congratulating Mr. Patrick Byrne on his appointment as Commissioner of the Garda and I wish Mr. Culligan well in his retirement. As Mr. Byrne faces a difficult and challenging task, I hope the financial and other resources he requires to fulfil that task are provided. It would be a good start if he were allowed to exercise discretion on spending moneys allocated to the Garda rather than the Department of Justice deciding on such matters. While I welcome the review of the efficiency and cost effectiveness of the Garda Síochána, why should the incoming Commissioner be a member of the group who carried out the review? When a group of management consultants carry out a review of a firm, I am sure the chief executive of the firm is not be part of the team.

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing that matter now.

Mr. Dardis

It is an important issue. I appeal to the Garda Representative Association and the Garda Federation to iron out their difficulties, particularly when everybody else has been asked to try to solve the crime problem.

I expressed the view yesterday that, given the present difficult circumstances in Northern Ireland, it might not be helpful to discuss the matter now. Serious consideration should be given to banning marches. If this were to happen in England, Wales or Scotland, I have no doubt the police would stop marches. It is not a traditional right as represented——

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing the matter now.

Mr. Dardis

I realise that, but this is the last opportunity we will have for some time to refer to the matter. The right to march is not a traditional right when used as provocation and intimidation. I repeat my call to the Unionist leadership to show restraint, to be moderate in what they say and to show true leadership in these grave circumstances. It is incomprehensible that Christian places of worship, irrespective of their denomination, should be used for demonstrations of this nature.

Ms O'Sullivan

I join other Members in thanking you, Sir, the Leas-Chathaoirleach, the staff, ushers and members of the media for their help throughout the year. I wish Dermot McCarthy a happy retirement after many years' service.

I do not believe it would be helpful to hold a debate on Northern Ireland at this sensitive time as our comments would not be helpful. It would be better to leave it to those who know more about the true position there. Efforts are being made to bring the communities together so that a reasonable resolution to the difficulties facing the people in Northern Ireland can be reached. I hope those in leadership positions, particularly on the Unionist side, show responsible leadership and help to bring about agreement, rather than disagreement. We cannot predict when it will be appropriate to discuss the matter but, if necessary, the House should be recalled to debate it. It might also be suitable to debate the question of law and order at some stage, but the House will sit on 26 July to deal with certain legislative matters.

I also wish the new Commissioner of the Garda every success in his difficult task. This is a challenging time for the Garda Síochána and he appears to have the qualities necessary for the job.

Mr. Sherlock

I join other Members in paying tribute to you, Sir, for your good work. You are very suited to the job. I also pay tribute to the staff and wish Dermot McCarthy well in his retirement. He is a courteous person and should have been a diplomat.

Mr. Enright

He might run for the next election.

Mr. Sherlock

We have debated worthwhile legislation in recent times and the standard of debate has been excellent. Mr. Byrne, the new Commissioner made his way from Cork to Dublin and made a name for himself. I hope he continues to do that and I wish him well in his new appointment.

Mr. Bohan

I will not go into the details of thanking you, Sir, for everything you have done for us. I wish Dermot McCarthy every success in his retirement. I hope this will not be the last we see of him and that we may have a cup of coffee with him in the Visitor's Bar at some future date. I am pleased the Government saw fit to appoint Pat Byrne as the new Garda Commissioner. It is not often it does things right, but in this case it surpassed itself.

Mr. O'Toole

It is doing him no favours.

An Cathaoirleach

I take it Senator Bohan is wishing him well.

Mr. Bohan

I convey my good wishes to the new commissioner. He is the ablest police officer the country has seen for many years. I also pay tribute to the outgoing Commissioner, Paddy Culligan, who has had a rough five and a half years. He is a gentleman in every respect and did a good job. I congratulate the Government on making a good choice of Commissioner.

Mr. Neville

I, too, congratulate Mr. Byrne on his appointment. We should congratulate the Minister for Justice on her excellent choice. He was an excellent policeman in difficult times and the best person to handle a difficult task. I also wish Paddy Culligan a long and happy retirement.

Mr. Mooney

I suppose it is a reflection on southern society that the thoughts of a considerable number of people turn to matters of sporting endeavour in July. It shows where our priorities lie. In that context I ask the Leader to convey to the Minister with responsibility for sport, Deputy Allen, the appreciation of many people in the sporting world who have welcomed the establishment of a new National Sports Council, which is chaired by a distinguished former Olympian, John Treacy. Membership of the council is widely reflective of Irish sporting life. It was particularly pleasing to see the appointment of the general secretary of the GAA to this body, which will formulate proposals.

Will the Leader establish when the task force will report its deliberations? I understand it will undertake a root and branch investigation of sport, sporting facilities — or the lack of them — and priorities for sport as we approach the millennium. That report is long overdue. It is ironic that in the month in which we are sending perhaps the largest ever team to the Atlanta Olympics, there is a wrangle about a 50 metre swimming pool——

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing that issue now. The Senator should put a question to the Leader.

Mr. Mooney

——and a national football stadium. While the Minister is doing excellent work in helping to fund more and more sporting facilities, there is a perception that sport is under-funded. I hope, in the context of my request for an opportunity to debate the findings of the task force, we will also have an opportunity to discuss the percentages distributed under the national lottery for sporting endeavour.

An Cathaoirleach

Thank you, Senator.

Mr. Mooney

These are important matters.

An Cathaoirleach

I appreciate that, but we are not discussing them now.

Mr. Mooney

We should have an early opportunity to discuss these matters, particularly in light of the Olympic Games. I send the good wishes of all the people to the athletes and the administrative staff who will travel to Atlanta. They will carry the hopes and wishes of a nation. Let us hope they have much sporting success.

Mr. Norris

I join the congratulations offered by Members to the new Garda Commissioner, Patrick Byrne. I had the pleasure of meeting him on several occasions — I think the first time was when I sat beside him on a plane on the way back from Budapest. He is a very interesting, intelligent, charming man with a very good sense of public relations. Without in any sense being critical of his predecessors, he will do a remarkable job on the public image of the Garda, which is very important in these troubled times.

I also wish to join the congratulations to Mr. McCarthy on his retirement. Having retired from the university, I assure him it is wonderful and he will enjoy himself immensely. He could, of course, run for the Seanad so that he could rejoin us here.

I reiterate the remarks about the efficiency and courtesy of the staff of the House, which is evident in circumstances that are not nearly as good as those in most other world parliaments because we have a great lack of resources. I referred yesterday to the fact that the reports of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and several other committees have not been published because of lack of resources. That is an absolute scandal and an outrage.

An Cathaoirleach

We may be short of resources but we are not discussing them today.

Mr. Norris

Just as a Member of this House, Senator Magner, has transformed the Joint Services Committee and produced facilities of which we are all very proud, let us have more of that energy in getting resources for where we work as well as where we dine.

I am very glad that item No. 5 — Statements on the White Paper on Foreign Policy — is still on the Order Paper. I presume that matter will be taken early in the new session so that those of us who did not have an opportunity to contribute will be able to do so. Sometimes this matter is taken coincidentally with meetings of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, but perhaps it could be taken at a time when that committee is not meeting because a number of Members who serve it would like to make a contribution.

Mr. Enright

I join the Leader in wishing Dermot McCarthy every happiness in his retirement. He and I came to this House at about the same time a number of years ago when we were both much younger. I am glad he is in good health. I confirm that I will challenge him for the seat in Laoighis-Offaly and I intend to win.

An Cathaoirleach

We will not get into the technicalities of the election now. The Senator should put a question relating to the Order of Business.

Mr. Enright

I was about to pay tribute to you, a Chathaoirleach, and the members of staff. I assume you will not question that. I pay tribute to the incoming Garda Commissioner, Patrick Byrne, who faces a great challenge. I wish him every success in his appointment. He is a young man who came up through the ranks of the Garda. There was newspaper speculation that the Government might make the appointment from outside the Garda Síochána, but I am delighted people who start out as gardaí rise through the ranks to the top job. Long may that continue because those people have the experience. I knew Commissioner Culligan when he was stationed in my constituency and I wish him every happiness. He received some criticism, but he is a fine, honest, straight, hard working man.

Thought should be given during the coming weeks to making available a day or two for a debate on Northern Ireland. The present position is serious and the risk is that the problem will get out of hand in that if the leaders of political parties and Churches and those who have an input to the matter are not very careful they will lose out and gang mobs will take over. I hope the present communications will come to a satisfactory conclusion.

I pay tribute to the Minister for Justice on appointing solicitors to the Circuit Court Bench.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator will have an opportunity to do that later.

Mr. Enright

I will have only 15 minutes at that stage.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator has had almost that amount of time already on the Order of Business.

Mr. Enright

Since Deputy Mooney referred to sporting matters, I wish to refer to next Sunday's Leinster hurling final, which clashes with the Munster hurling final.

An Cathaoirleach

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Enright

Perhaps the director of programmes in RTÉ will discuss the matter with the GAA with a view to rescheduling timetables.

An Cathaoirleach

I think that has been done.

Mr. Daly

I expected Senator Enright to wish the Minister for Justice a speedy recovery from her black eye.

An Cathaoirleach

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Enright

She was not in the Seanad when it happened.

Mr. Daly

Will the Leader of the House make inquiries of the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications about the proposed strike of airport police officers? A strike at the start of the tourist season would cause major disruption and chaos at airports. The Minister should take some initiative to get the unions and management of Air Rianta into discussions so that the matter can be resolved.

I take this opportunity to wish Dermot McCarthy every success in his retirement.

Mr. Magner

I join the tributes to the Cathaoirleach for two reasons: first, they are sincerely meant and, second, if ever he is inclined to rule me out of order he might stay his hand.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator should not count on it.

Mr. Magner

I wish Dermot McCarthy every happiness in his retirement. I thank Senator Norris for his kind remarks and we hope to surprise him again at the start of the next session.

I wish to bring to the attention of the Leader the comments made by the President of the Vintners' Association, Mr. Paul O'Grady, in threatening to evict politicians from their clinics if they do not do what he tells them. A very successful meeting, led by Senator Howard, was held with the Vintners' Association, with deputations led by Senator Bohan, and at all times relations were courteous and constructive. However, the bullying attitude adopted by Mr. O'Grady is of no avail in resolving the problem. During the Fianna Fáil/Labour Coalition the fulfilling of this EU directive was as much on the Government agenda as it is now and I suggest that Mr. O'Grady temper his remarks.

An Cathaoirleach

Please stop, Senator. Mr O'Grady is not here to defend himself.

Mr. Magner

He must realise that one must be reasonable in order to get work done.

I congratulate the new commissioner, Superintendent Byrne. I hope that during the next session Senator Mulcahy will begin to tell the truth about the support of the Labour Party and Democratic Left for the Garda and the forces of law and order. He persistently misleads this House and puts on the record what I can only describe as a tissue of lies.

An Cathaoirleach

Those remarks are not helpful, Senator.

Mr. Magner

The Senator should use the summer recess to examine his conscience. He should remember that in this House it pays to tell the truth from time to time.

Mr. D. Kiely

Yesterday on the Order of Business the Leader and Senator Dardis mentioned the continuing dispute between the GRA and the breakaway federation. Every Member of this House would like to see this dispute come to an end. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Justice whether it is true that High Court costs awarded to the GRA were paid by the Department of Justice. If that is so taxpayers money was used to pay these costs. I ask the Leader when we come back here for one day during the summer——

An Cathaoirleach

I am sure the Senator could find a more appropriate way to raise that matter.

Mr. D. Kiely

This is the only way I know of raising it. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister here to discuss this very serious matter. I would like a reply from her in writing if she cannot come to the House. I wish to mention a document that I got this morning about the changeover of the Presidency of the European Union. We each received a copy of this glossy document.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator cannot display documents in the Chamber.

Mr. D. Kiely

I ask the Leader of the House to ask the European Parliament not to squander thousands of pounds publishing these brochures when the money could be put to better use such as providing bursaries for children.

An Cathaoirleach

That matter does not arise on the Order of Business.

Ms Honan

I wish Mr. McCarthy well in his retirement and hope he will have good health to enjoy it. I also wish Senator Enright well in his efforts to regain his seat in Laoighis-Offaly. He will have some competition. I thank you, Sir, the Leas-Chathaoirleach, the ushers and the media for all their help during the past term. I hope we all enjoy the summer break.

Despite frequent promises, there has been no legislation to deal with our antiquated and largely unworkable criminal provisions dealing with the insane. The latest chapter in the Gallagher case has again brought this issue into focus. My party introduced a Bill in the other House two years ago which was not supported as the Minister for Justice promised legislation in this area. I ask the Leader if we could have this legislation early in the next session.

Mr. McDonagh

I ask the Leader to impress upon the Minister for Education the importance of defining where the responsibility for adult education will lie in the future. This is the most rapidly growing sector of education and those working in the area are concerned. Those in the area wonder whether the sector will come under the remit of the vocational education committees, the HEA, the future educational council or the proposed regional education boards. It is important that the Minister should clearly outline who will be responsible for adult education before those involved in the adult education programmes return to work in September and the courses begin in October.

Mr. Finneran

The new sports council was mentioned. I hope one of its first jobs is to investigate the mass plunder of national lottery funds by other Departments. That funds from the national lottery, which was set up to fund sport and recreation, were plundered by other Departments is a national disgrace. I hope the new sports council will investigate that and report on it and that those funds will be used for the purposes for which they were originally intended.

I ask the Leader to bring the very low morale of ambulance personnel to the attention of the Minister for Health. I am sure other Members have been circulated with a document regarding the serious breakdown of consultations and negotiations between this group and the Department of Health. I do not want to say too much about this. Ambulance personnel provide an emergency service but they are treated in a totally different way from the Garda or the fire service and the figures speak for themselves.

An Cathaoirleach

There are other ways of raising this matter.

Mr. Finneran

I will not delay the House. I ask the Leader to bring the situation to the attention of the Minister. Drivers of ambulances are only covered by third party insurance and that is a disgrace. Those who work in the emergency services should not have to look after themselves in case of an accident.

An Cathaoirleach

We are not discussing that now.

Mr. Finneran

A number of other issues, including retirement, are involved. I ask the Leader to ask the Minister for Health to enter meaningful negotiations with the association of ambulance personnel. At the moment their wages are £7 per week less than those of county council lorry drivers. Those figures speak for themselves.

An Cathaoirleach

Senator, we are not discussing this matter.

Dr. Henry

We are right to wish the new Garda Commissioner well, because he has an extremely difficult job on his hands, particularly in relation to the drugs scene in Dublin. We have discussed legislation over the last few weeks which will help convict drug traffickers and so forth. Could the Leader ask the Minister for Justice why on the eve of the opening of the detoxification unit in Mountjoy which has been planned for six months — the doctor in charge has been appointed — a dispute has arisen regarding staffing? The prison officers' association is querying the fact that their medical orderlies will not be staffing the unit and this is very serious. The unit was to open this week but we may not see this happen. We are all agreed that there is little point in sending people to Mountjoy Prison with a drug addiction problem which has led them to crime unless some efforts are made to deal at least with those who want to kick the habit while they are there.

Mr. McGowan

I ask the Leader to arrange a full debate on the funding of local authorities very early in the new session. The situation is very serious. Local authorities are forced to make a development charge of £500 or more on private houses. Community developments are now charged between £5,000 to £10,000 and these communities do not receive funding for their community centres. Local authorities are forced to make these charges and a full and open debate with the Minister is long overdue. I hope we can offer some useful advice on how best to approach the funding of local authorities.

Mr. Manning

I promised this debate five times. The Senator asked me five times. I have told him five times that we will have it.

Mr. McGowan

The Leader should not react in that fashion. He is not making any progress. Every Senator has called for a debate on funding of local authorities. I am just one of them.

Mr. Manning

I have promised a debate on this issue early in the next session.

Mr. McGowan

I am one of those getting hot under the collar about this problem.

An Cathaoirleach

The Leader of the House has given you a commitment, Senator.

Mr. McAughtry

I add my voice to those who have paid tribute to you, Sir, and the way in which you have conducted proceedings here. I caused you some embarrassment a short time ago by reading a speech. I did not know that we are not supposed to do that.

An Cathaoirleach

You know it now.

Mr. McAughtry

I offer Mr. McCarthy my good wishes on his retirement. I am a retired civil servant so he can look at me and see what it does to a person, 30 odd years of the Civil Service is not an easy thing to shrug off.

I share Senator Dardis's disappointment that there will not be a debate on the North. If we do have a debate I hope it will not take the same direction as comments in this Chamber, which is unilateral condemnation of the Orange Order. There are two points of view in this argument and I hope Members will try to understand that when a community is under strain, the strain will release itself in ways mystifying to outsiders. The residents of Drumcree are being asked for 15 minutes' forbearance every 12 months. I had hoped they would stand in dignified disgust and let this march take place.

Mr. Lydon

Yesterday a number of Senators condemned the dastardly act in St. Michan's. Many expressed surprise that somebody could use the skull of a baby as a football in the church grounds. I am not surprised at disrespect for the dead. When one sees an august body such as the review body on the Constitution recommending that we legalise the lawful termination of live children and when we cannot show respect for the living, how can we respect the dead?

An Cathaoirleach

That does not arise on the Order of Business.

Mr. Lydon

A committee will look at the review body's recommendations but will the Seanad have an opportunity to discuss them? Perhaps we could put to rest its more pusillanimous suggestions, such as the diminution of the role of the Irish language, the change of the nation's name and the removal of any reference to the Holy Trinity in the Preamble. These suggestions are not merely anti-Irish, they are anti-Christian.

Mr. R. Kiely

Senator McGowan referred to the shortage of funding in local government. I hope the report I read in last week's Irish Farmers' Journal that the Minister for the Environment intends to impose another burden on the badly affected agricultural community by imposing a tax on farm buildings is not correct. That is very worrying.

Mr. Finneran

It is being discussed.

An Cathaoirleach

The Senator can find another way to raise that matter.

Mr. R. Kiely

The farmers have been badly affected this year.

Mr. Sherlock

Some of them.

Mr. R. Kiely

There have been reductions in the price of milk and beef and to impose another tax on farmers is completely unjustified. I ask the Leader to convey our concern to the Minister for the Environment.

I wish to inform Senator Enright that the times for the games next Sunday have been rescheduled. Senator Norris praised Senator Magner and the Oireachtas Joint Services Committee. I am also a member of that committee and it is most disillusioning. It has held only one meeting since last January and a letter was sent out some time ago——

An Cathaoirleach

That is not a matter for the Order of Business.

Mr. R. Kiely

I am completely disillusioned. The services run by the Joint Services Committee could be improved if there were more meetings.

Mr. Dardis

It should have a dinner.

Mr. Quinn

I ask the Leader to congratulate the Minister for Health on the recent waiting list initiative in hospitals and to urge him to focus as much attention as possible on this matter.

I have a policy of not repeating what other Members said, but I am a good friend of the new commissioner and if I was the only Member who did not congratulate him it would stand out. For Senator Enright's information, his golf handicap at present is 15. I look forward to seeing what it will be in a year's time. That will give us an idea of whether Commissioner Byrne is allocating his attention to the work at which I believe he will be most successful.

Mr. Fitzgerald

I thank the Cathaoirleach, the Leas-Chathaoirleach and the staff for their co-operation throughout the year. I also thank the Leader of the House and the Leader of the Opposition for their co-operation. We missed a few debates on subjects such as the Irish language, fishing and so forth but I will not hold that against the Leader.

Mr. Sherlock

Beidh lá eile.

Mr. Fitzgerald

I wish the new Garda Commissioner well and I wish the former Commissioner, Mr. Culligan, well on his retirement. The usher, Dermot McCarthy, has always been a gentleman and I add my good wishes to those that have been expressed. I support Senator Finneran's call for the ambulance personnel to be treated fairly. Their case has been with the Minister for about two years and I hope there will be a good result. I had to call on the ambulance services to take me to Dublin a couple of times and I might need them again.

Mr. Kelleher

The Leader forgot to wish one group of people well for the summer. They, too, have ensured the smooth running of the House for the Government. I refer to the Independents.

The Leader might raise with the Minister for Enterprise and Employment recent reports of a £1.7 billion investment in Newport, Wales. Was the IDA involved in trying to lure that South Korean company to Ireland and was there any ministerial involvement? If there was, why did it fail? The Scots and the Welsh, although part of the same country, were bidding against each other. If there was no ministerial involvement on Ireland's behalf it should have been brought to bear. If there was ministerial involvement why did it fail to bring that huge investment to Ireland?

Mr. Manning

I omitted to thank the chairpersons who assist the Cathaoirleach and the House and without whom the work could not proceed as smoothly and efficiently as it does.

Senator Wright referred to the new Garda Commissioner. It is salutary that all sides of the House accept that the best person for the job has been selected. There is full support for him and the people, as never before, want him to succeed in his job. That is no reflection on Patrick Culligan who was an excellent Garda Commissioner. However, it is a new time and there is a new mood and the new Commissioner is the man for the job.

I agree with Senator Dardis it is about time the ongoing scandal of the row between the GRA and Garda Federation was brought to an end. The public is sick and tired of this unedifying spectacle. At a time when everybody's priority is the elimination of crime, the public is tired of the spectacle of gardaí squabbling in public. It is up to these bodies to not just mouth nice things about what has happened in recent times and condemn politicians but also to show by example and leadership that they too are serious about this issue.

Senator O'Toole asked for a debate on Northern Ireland. A debate on Northern Ireland at this point would not be helpful. If it is considered helpful during the recess I will consult Members and the House will be recalled. However, it would have to be a helpful debate. The Senator also referred to Bord na Móna. Like other Members, I would like to see that problem resolved. The best advice was offered by Senator Quinn. I hope what he proposed at yesterday's meeting of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Commercial State-Sponsored Bodies, which contained a great deal of common sense, will be the line followed.

Senator Mooney referred to the National Sports Council. It deserves to be welcomed. I will be happy to organise a debate on the National Sports Council and on lottery funding, which was raised by Senator Finneran, early in the new session. The same applies to the new task force. On a lighter note, I am glad Senator Enright realises that the times of the Munster and Leinster hurling finals next Sunday have been changed. Those of us who have not received tickets from Senator Kiely can now watch both matches. It was common sense because the GAA is competing in a television age and needs to take advantage of the great sporting spectacles it can offer.

Senator Norris raised a number of questions. I will not dwell on his retirement from the university. Sometimes, although not in the case of Senator Norris, it is hard to tell the difference between people who have retired and those who have not. He also called for a debate on foreign policy. The trouble with that is getting all the members of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs in the country at the same time, but I will look at that in the new session.

We all know that Senator Enright will be fighting for a seat in Laoighis-Offaly and my money is on him. Senator Daly raised the question of transport and I will convey his views to the Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications.

I agree with Senator Magner about the tone of the remarks by the leader of the vintners' association. It is one thing to come here and speak in a very civil way to Members from all parties but quite another to issue a public threat. Regardless of which parties are in Government or Opposition, those bullying tactics will not get them anywhere. I deprecate what was done and I ask them to reconsider. There is no place for that sort of language.

I agree with Senator Dan Kiely about those glossy EU publications, which I also received today. I cannot see the point of them. They are enormously expensive to produce and not particularly effective. It is a waste of public money to engage in such publicity.

I will convey the question raised by Senator Honan to the Minister. I will also convey the point made by Senator Henry but, as the Minister will be here shortly, the Senator might raise it again with her.

I promised Senator McGowan five times that we will have the debate which he requested early in the new session. I said five times that there will be a debate on the funding of local authorities. For the sixth time, there will be a debate.

Mr. McGowan

On a point of order, I never raised the question of funding for local authorities; the Leader misunderstood me.

An Cathaoirleach

That is not a point of order.

Mr. Manning

I am sorry if I misunderstood the Senator — I obviously misheard him. However, there will be a debate.

Senator McAughtry's point was very well made. I will pass on Senator Quinn's comments to the Minister for Health — I think it is a good initiative. In reply to Senator Kelleher's question on why we did not get that project, I suppose, like Cork hurlers, we cannot win them all. I am sure every effort was made to ensure that project came to Ireland. The IDA's track record this year, and that of ministerial help to the IDA, is second to none.

Order of Business agreed to.