The Order of Business is items 1 and 2. All Stages of item 1 will be taken today; contributions of spokespersons are not to exceed 20 minutes and all other Senators ten minutes; Senators may share time. Item 2 will be taken without debate at the conclusion of item 1.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. However, I do not see the point in putting time limits on a debate which will have relatively few speakers. If that is what the Leader wants, I agree to it but it is unnecessary on a Friday when there is only one item of business. The discussion on item 2 will be interesting as it is likely that this Bill is unconstitutional. It will be interesting to see if the President takes more than one day to sign it or whether she will refer it to the Supreme Court.
I would like an early debate on the report on the Pensions Board. It is probably one of the most important documents to be published in the last decade and has profound implications for everybody. From what I have seen of it so far, it is a fine document. I am sure the Minister will be happy to agree to an early debate.
I have looked at ways in which we can help the Government on the Shannon Rivers Bill, which was introduced by Fianna Fáil in the last session. There are a number of procedural devices whereby we would be happy to have the Bill restored as a Bill of the House. This will help the Leader get the Bill back to the House at an early stage.
I wish to make a serious complaint about the fact that the Whip for next week has not yet arrived in our offices. There is a tradition in the House, for as long as I have been a Member, that the Whip is issued on Thursday as Members like to know the business for the following week before they go home for the weekend. Recently, on a number of occasions, the Whip has not arrived until late on Friday, even though, as I know in this case, it has been ready since yesterday.
The Leader may be deliberately trying to prevent Members on this side from preparing themselves and doing their work. In many cases the Whip does not arrive until Monday or Tuesday when the House sometimes sits. This is totally unacceptable. This week's Whip was available yesterday at midday and it is indefensible that the Opposition has not received it yet. I do not know if the Leader is doing this on purpose — I suspect he may be. It is very easy to fax the Whip to our offices. It was always done when I was Leader and when Deputy Wright was Leader. We made every effort to get the Whip across in time.
I remind the Leader that this House works on the basis of co-operation and agreement. If the Government wants to make life difficult and is not prepared to give us the basic courtesies, we also have ways to make life difficult for it. However, I do not want to get to that stage.
On my behalf and on behalf of my absent colleagues, I agree to the Order of Business. Like Senator Manning, I am interested in the President's reaction to this legislation.
I also support what he said as regards the very late arrival of the Whip for the Order of Business for next week. Yesterday I eventually managed to get the information from the Government Whip's office that I was allocated Private Members' Time for next week. The member of staff there apologised and said it was very late notice. I have been asking for that information all this week. I reckoned it was Independent Members' time, but sometimes there is an alteration in the rota. The Leader will be relieved to hear that the Inspector of Mental Hospitals motion will be taken off the Order Paper as I will table it next week.
It is inconvenient to get such late notice when a matter requires a great deal of preparation. I doubt if the Inspector of Mental Hospitals' report will have arrived by next week. It is difficult to have to phone an office so close to the weekend to ask if there has been a change in publication. I would be glad, on my own behalf and on that of my colleagues, if we could have the Order of Business for the following week earlier in the previous week.
I also agree to the Order of Business but am disappointed that the Order Paper only mentions Second Stage of the Bill and does not refer to all Stages.
For the information of Senators, when Second Stage of a Bill is completed, the House will decide when Committee Stage will be taken — that is the procedure which is always followed. All the Order Paper will ever indicate is the Stage the Bill has reached.
Yes, but there will be no break between the Stages. I have put down amendments for Committee Stage. This matter has been discussed before and I thought we had come to an agreement that there would be a break between Stages. Perhaps the Leader could facilitate us with a short sos.
I join Senator Manning's call for a debate on the pensions report, which has enormous implications for everyone and for our economy in terms of funding pensions. The Minister, Deputy Ahern, should come here for a full debate.
We should note that Sinn Féin is holding its special delegate conference this weekend on the Northern Ireland Agreement. The party will apparently make the historic decision to favour a "yes" vote in the referendum in the South and on the multi-party Agreement in the North. We should welcome the move from the Armalite and the bomb to the ballot box and hope the decision taken will contribute to peace.
It has always been my position that it is undesirable to take Committee and Remaining Stages of a Bill on the same day as Second Stage but we should approach this on a case by case basis. We are dealing with a straightforward Bill, with five sections and a schedule. There are only two amendments and while they are important I do not see them detaining the House for a long time. Since we are dealing with something of that brevity which is not complex, it is appropriate to move from Second Stage to Committee Stage after a short sos. As you said, a Chathaoirligh, it is a matter for the House to decide and we would not want to pre-empt that.
I join Senator Costello in welcoming the most recent developments within Sinn Féin and in the peace process. I hope the party not only endorses the Agreement but obtains the required two thirds majority to take its seats in the new assembly. In that context, it is essential that there be an absolute rejection of violence under the terms of the Agreement. That implies decommissioning must proceed for them legitimately to claim those seats.
Could we have a debate on journalistic ethics? Criminals have started to write books and a law should be passed to divert the proceeds to Victim Support. This is now happening across the water and it will only be a short time before we have it here. Raking up events, sometimes only eight or nine years after dreadful crimes have been committed brings a great deal of sorrow. Also, some journalists refer to Ministers and other people by nicknames, which should not be tolerated in any society. When I went to school only bullies and blackguards used nicknames and they often went home with a sore head for it.
Senator Manning mentioned the time frame for this morning's debate. Since I became Leader of the House I did not put a time frame on one Second Stage debate, and on that occasion a former member of his party spoke for one hour and 18 minutes.
Free speech.
Having had that experience I set a time frame for Second Stage debates now. Senators Manning, Henry and Costello called for an early debate on the Pensions Board report; I will allow time for this and will discuss it with the leaders of the groups after the Order of Business.
Senator Manning and Senator Henry raised concern about the business of the week. It was the norm that this would be issued to the Whips immediately after Thursday's business, when we knew what had happened that day. We are now sitting on Fridays because the Bill we are dealing with today and the one we will deal with next Friday have deadlines. However, I will do everything to facilitate the Whips and the leaders so that they will know in good time every Wednesday what the business of the House will be for the following week, on the understanding that should something unforeseen occur in the House on the final day — after the notice has been issued — I will be able to add to the business on the first day of the following week and to notify the leaders and Whips of that.
Senator Farrell asked for a debate on journalism, which I will try to provide at the earliest opportunity. I join in Senator Costello's and Senator Dardis' remarks about the Sinn Féin conference at the weekend. The indication is that the party will be in favour of a "yes" vote in the referendum.
I have received a reply from the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, on the Shannon River Council Bill. I can forward it to the Leaders and the Whips but some of it is as follows:
Since the Bill was published a number of developments have taken place which I am anxious to continue and which would inform decisions taken by me in the future. The present arrangements in relation to water quality management will be further improved under the major Cohesion Funding monitoring and management systems for Lough Derg and Lough Ree.
On a point of order, is it not appropriate that the letter be circulated so that we can read it, rather than have it read out? The Leader is saying there is a U-turn and the Bill will not come forward; perhaps we could see the letter and debate it but it is not appropriate to debate a letter we have not seen.
While I have the greatest respect for the Leader of the Opposition he is being presumptuous in stating I would read the letter out because I was not. I prefaced my remarks by saying I was going to circulate it but I wanted to let him know that this is a major programme cofinanced at the rate of 80 per cent to 85 per cent by EU Cohesion Funding, amounting to more than £39 million. Senators from Roscommon and Clare will understand that.
All we want is the Bill.
The Senator has said on many occasions that he wanted a response; when I obtain a detailed reply he does not want to hear it. This is confusing to say the least.
We do not want waffle, we want the Bill. Will we have it?
The Minister goes on to state:
I consider that the interests of the Shannon are being well catered for through these arrangements and accordingly I do not propose to re-introduce the Bill at this stage.
Has the Leader no shame, after what he said before?
Senator Manning can form his opinion after he reads the reply.
It is a U-turn, a climb down and a betrayal of the Senator's former colleagues.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
I am unhappy with the Leader's reply about the arrangements for business. The business for a week should be produced on the previous Thursday, as was done heretofore, otherwise we cannot plan. If that is not done, I give him notice that we will have to consider our position on the matter.
I can give a guarantee to the House that everybody will have it on Thursday morning.
Order of Business agreed to.