The Order of Business is items 2 and 3. Item 2 will be taken without debate and item 3, Committee and Remaining Stages, will be taken today. Business will be interrupted from 1 to 2 p.m. and item 3 will be resumed thereafter if not previously concluded.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreed. When is it proposed to take item 4 on today's Order Paper? Also, would the Leader ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform to come into the House today to indicate the thinking behind the State's decision in the McCabe murder case? There is still disquiet and we need to be told the reasons behind it. The reaction today is universally hostile to what is happening. Without an explanation, all sorts of rumours and strange interpretations will be placed on the facts. I would like the Minister to come into the House and explain.
The Order of Business is agreed by the Independent Senators. I ask the Leader for a debate as soon as possible on the child care report published yesterday.
The Labour group is not happy with a 30 minute guillotine on the Order of Business. We feel it is an opportunity for Senators to raise important points.
As Senator Costello is aware, this matter was decided yesterday at the meeting of the Committee on Procedures and Privileges. Senator Costello expressed dissent from the decision and that dissent was noted by the committee. However, it was agreed the matter would be put on today's Order Paper and it would be proposed that the matter be taken without debate. Senator Costello's position on this matter is well known and I respectfully ask him not to pursue the matter.
I was replying to the Order of Business.
My second point relates to item 3, Committee Stage of the Local Government (Planning and Development) Bill. The Minister for the Environment and Local Government will come to the House to deal with the Bill, but I note the Minister for Finance will introduce a Bill on the establishment of two regional authorities. I would like clarification from the Leader on how the Minister for Finance can interfere in an area which is the remit of the Minister for the Environment and Local Government. It is proposed to divide the country into two regional areas for the purpose of eliciting European Structural Funds. I thought there would be a more holistic approach to local government reform and proper regional structures during the 100th anniversary of the setting up of local government. I would like clarification on why the Minister for Finance, and not the Environment and Local Government, will deal with this matter. This is unacceptable.
On the McCabe case, I agree with Senator Manning that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform should clarify why, what seemed to be a murder charge, was reduced to a charge of manslaughter, and a plea of manslaughter accepted. An explanation must be put into the public domain, otherwise it brings the law into disrepute.
Yesterday Senator Ó Murchú asked for a debate on radon gas. I raised this issue on a number of occasions in the House. I ask the Leader to delay such a debate until the completed report of the Radiological Institute of Ireland is brought before the House, which could be within the next two months. It would be better to consider the overall picture, and I would appreciate a debate on the matter as soon as the report is published.
Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health and Children to come to this House to discuss issues such as hospital waiting lists and why the elderly and sick in hospital are expected to pay for television while criminals in jail can watch it for nothing?
Recently there has been much debate on the crisis in farming, and rightly so. I want to raise another crisis which is taking place in Donegal, concerning the fishing industry which is, perhaps, more serious than the Fruit of the Loom crisis. The bad weather, erratic supply of fish, greatly reduced quotas and the collapse of the Far East and Russian markets have caused a major problem in the fishing industry. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for the Marine, Deputy Woods, to come to this House immediately to discuss how he might solve this problem. I have been servicing that industry for 25 years, and this is the first time I have heard major processors talk about letting their full-time staff go in the coming months. The industry employs approximately 3,000 people in Donegal, both directly and indirectly. This accounts for 20 per cent of the workforce.
As a Senator who received her nomination from the gardaí, I want to voice my concern at what seems to be an inexplicable situation. However, I will await the result of today's sentencing. If Members of the Oireachtas cannot support the guardians of the State by making their voices heard in this regard, they will be failing in their duty.
I support Senator Henry's call for a debate on the child care report, because I was chairperson of the Irish Pre-School Play Group Association. This was the first association to introduce standards for child care. We must recognise the importance of the proposed new provisions and I would welcome a debate on the matter.
The decisions taken, and agreements reached, in the Special Criminal Court yesterday in the McCabe murder trial were independent of the Minister. However, I support the call from Senator Manning and others to have the Minister come to this House to give some clarification on the matter. There is a great deal of concern among the gardaí and members of the public regarding the future protection of the gardaí whose only protection was a murder conviction which would carry a life sentence without remission. I support the call for the Minister to come to this House as soon as possible to clarify the matter.
Members will be aware of statements on news bulletins yesterday regarding the vacant Pretty Polly factory in Killarney. This time last year there was an announcement that the industry would be replaced by last Easter. Hopefully, this is not another bogus Government promise and I invite the Tánaiste to make a statement on the matter.
I strongly support Senator Manning's comments regarding the McCabe case.
I invite the Minister for Public Enterprise, through the Leader, to make a statement on the future of the Great Southern Hotels Group, as there is serious concern regarding a report she may have commissioned, or which may be in her possession, from Aer Rianta.
Will the Leader arrange for a debate on Agenda 2000 and the Santer proposals for reform of the Common Agricultural Policy? Farmers in my part of the country are concerned that sheep are not mentioned in the Santer proposals. Pertinent issues relating to the sheep industry, Agenda 2000 and the Santer proposals should be debated in this House with the Minister for Agriculture and Food.
I ask the Leader to bring to the attention of the Minister for Health and Children the need to purchase cardiac services from outside the State to reduce cardiac waiting lists. In some cases patients must wait in regional hospitals, such as the Lourdes Hospital, for up to three months to have cardiac operations in Dublin. It is unacceptable that approximately £20,000 of taxpayers' money is spent to keep people in hospital while they await these operations. It would be much cheaper to obtain these services from outside the State and patients would have these essential operations carried out much more quickly.
Yesterday I called for a debate on the child care report, I support the call made today for this debate. I hope the debate will take place at an early date because it is clear the Minister needs some guidance in the matter as he has decided to set up another committee to consider the report. I am sure he will be interested to hear our views.
Will the Leader clarify the position regarding the Shannon River Council Bill? He knows it has the full support of this side of the House. I expect it has the support of his side of the House since the same Bill was sponsored by his party when in Opposition. It has been on the Order Paper for a considerable time. We had the extraordinary situation where we debated the principles without debating the Bill itself. Can the Leader indicate when Government time will be allocated to debate this Bill?
Yesterday we passed the Second Stage of the Criminal Justice (United Nations Convention against Torture) Bill, 1998. It is a very important Bill and Members from various sides of the House made very serious contributions. Last night I watched "Oireachtas Report" but there was not one mention of any contribution. It seems that if you make a frivolous statement on the Order of Business it will be reported. Can the Leader bring this issue to the attention of the Committee on Procedure and Privileges? If it is not intended to report debates in a proper and thorough manner, I suggest we withdraw the programme as the situation is farcical. It is bad enough that the programme is broadcast in the middle of the night. We were debating a very serious subject and have debated various other subjects from time to time.
I support the call in the House yesterday for a debate on banking. Can the Leader arrange a debate on the amalgamation or sale of the State banks, bank charges and exorbitant interest rates being charged by credit card companies?
I join with other Senators who once again referred to a matter raised yesterday, that is the trial of those accused of the murder of Detective Gerry McCabe. Could it be possible to debate the implementation of the British-Irish Agreement because this is a developing story and more is being added to it all the time? It seems clear to me that there was massive intimidation by the IRA post the Agreement as well as continuous punishment beatings. This morning it was reported in An Phoblacht that the IRA is claiming that its arms dumps were raided and that arms used in various nefarious assaults were stolen by ex-members. That is a very convenient excuse. It is time we looked at the British-Irish Agreement to see in what way it is being implemented. There seem to be serious breaches on the republican side at this time and continuing breaches which threaten the security of this State.
I support my colleague's comments on the state of the fishing industry. There is a serious problem there. It is an important sector of our economy and it is important to the State. This is something that needs to be addressed. I support the call for a debate on the issue and for the Minister to attend.
I welcome the decision of Senator Ryan to join the Labour Party.
The Senator should follow suit if he thinks it is such a good idea.
I wish Senator Ryan well with his new found friends. The late Mick Moran made an analogy that "the hen that lays out once might lay out again".
Hear, hear.
I have raised an issue related to urban renewal in the past. Several local authorities made very effective presentations to the Government in relation to the towns in their local authority area which they wanted to be designated as new areas. We have waited for a decision on this issue for quite some time. I know there are difficulties but will the Leader ask the Minister for Finance to come here to explain what is the problem? There are many towns waiting for these proposals. People do not know whether to invest in buildings and towns are falling into a state of bad repair because this announcement has not been made.
In terms of the child care report, it is unfair to describe its conclusions as sketchy. They are very clear and specific. An implementation committee is required, and that is the position of those involved with social partnership. This report may be debated but it needs to be implemented now. I wish this House would tell the Minister that we need a structure to implement these recommendations rather than discuss them.
As someone who was raised in the home of a garda and has been involved and informed about GRA politics from the time I was born, I share the views with regard to people getting off almost free after the horrific murder of Detective McCabe. However, I think this House has certain duties. I do not see any function in calling a Minister in here. It goes against the constitutional right of what we are supposed to be doing. I also know I would hear the same speeches I heard this morning if these people walked free from the courts in a fortnight's time.
The reality is that there was not one hint of forensic or direct evidence to place these people at the scene of the crime. Someone had to take a hard and unpopular decision to get something out of this case. We are all burying those people at this stage. I do not know the facts but I know what I have said is true. We should wait and make an assessment based on the facts. All of us share the frustration and a sense of anger at what has happened but perhaps the people involved had no other choice but to do what they did.
I wish to raise the issue of the 16 December agreement in Stormont on the development of the British-Irish Agreement and the need to discuss it. There are three parts of this issue and since the House may have different views on them, the three sections should be debated separately. We should examine the establishment of the ten departments in the North and look at them as we can relate to them. We should also have separate days for discussions. The third item relates to co-operation and deals with the areas such as education and qualification which badly need to be discussed so that people can understand them properly.
The second issue related to implementation strategies. The first implementation issue was inland waterways. It is disgraceful that we would enter this without having any discussion or having in place our own legislation on the Shannon River Council Bill. The Deputy Leader suggested that it would include other inland waterways as well. It is a disgrace that we have not addressed this issue, despite the fact that we have a consensus on both sides of the House. We need to prepare ourselves legislatively and in other ways for the implementation of the British-Irish Agreement. The Government is remiss in its abrogating its responsibility by not moving this issue forward. I support the call for an immediate introduction of the Shannon River Council Bill.
Everyone is getting hot under the collar about what happened in the McCabe case yesterday but we all know the reason. It is very simple, the witnesses were intimidated.
Yes.
I allowed some general comments on this matter but the case is still before the courts. We must not encroach on the functions of the courts and we must be conscious of the separation of powers. I will allow a general comment but I would prefer if the Senator did not outline details.
The witness said he was intimidated.
Witnesses should be allowed give their evidence by sworn affidavit which would then only be read by the judge. In that way criminals would not be able to upset witnesses who are prepared to provide vital information.
Can the Leader find a way of drawing the Government's attention to the serious threat of a trade war, particularly one between the United States and Europe? I am not sure how this should best be done because it involves a number of Ministers from various Departments. I do not know if a debate is the right way to raise the issue. Small businesses are totally unaware and unprepared for what may turn out to be a trade war that would damage them and their chances of survival. Last week I visited the United States and I was surprised to discover the willingness of the Americans to start a trade war for what they believe are their rights. It has very little to do with bananas. It involves the Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ ment and those with responsibility for foreign relations.
I take this opportunity to draw to the attention of Government the failure of small business to note the dangers of the millennium bug. It is being handled competently by big business – banks, etc. are well capable of looking after themselves – but small business needs Government support on this. I also remind people of the precarious nature of our Celtic tiger economy. It has been mentioned today that a Japanese factory is relocating from Germany to Wales because of the introduction of the 35 hour week. Some of the laws we introduce to help those we believe are in need of help are in danger of threatening the survival of businesses that might otherwise have located in Ireland. I urge the Leader to find a way, either through this House or in direct consultation with the Departments, to remind the State of the dangers in this area.
It is my intention to bring item No. 4, raised by Senator Manning, before the House at the earliest possible time. Senators Manning, Costello, Norris, Ridge, John Cregan and Coghlan expressed their surprise at the outcome of the Gerry McCabe case. Having listened to the comments made by Senator O'Toole, perhaps there is more to this than meets the eye. This decision was taken by the DPP which is independent of Government. We should wait and see what develops.
Senators Henry, Ridge and O'Meara asked for a debate on the child care report. I am pleased to inform the House that I hope to propose this on the Order of Business next Thursday.
Senator Costello referred to the introduction by the Minister for Finance of two new regional authorities, as mooted in this mornings newspapers. He will be well aware the national plan has been submitted to the EU Commission and is the responsibility of the Department of Finance. That is why the Minister for Finance will take charge of this matter.
Senator Coogan has been seeking a debate on the radon report Bill for the last two sessions. Senators Ó Murchú, Finneran and others raised this matter yesterday and mentioned the three counties surrounding Tipperary. North-west Meath has also been very seriously affected by radon gas.
And Sligo.
Yes. We can await publication of the report if Senators wish, but the matter is of such urgency that we should afford time over the next three weeks to debate it. I will discuss this with Senators at the conclusion of the Order of Business. Senators Brennan and Chambers called for an urgent debate on the fishing industry. I agree with the sentiments expressed by the Senators and I propose we discuss this issue next Thursday afternoon. Senator Coghlan called on the Minister for Public Enterprise to make a statement on his concerns about the Great Southern Hotels. I will pass on his request and note his observations which come before this House from time to time. I know the Senator means well; he is as well informed on such matters as me.
I will seek an interpretation of that.
In relation to Senator Finneran's remarks about Agenda 2000 and the sheep industry, it is my intention to hold a full day debate on agriculture in the next three weeks. My experience as Leader of the House for the last 20 months has been that agriculture is by far the most important industry in the country.
It is not as important as child care.
I will afford time for Senators to express their views and concerns on agriculture in the next three weeks. I will pass Senator O'Dowd's views to the Minister for Health and Children. Senators O'Meara and O'Toole referred to the Shannon River Bill. This is the responsibility of the Minister for the Environment and Local Government who will be before us today.
I thought the Minister for the Marine and Natural Resources was coming to the House this morning.
No. I have no objection to inquiring as to what progress is being made in this area. I agree with Senator O'Toole's comments on the British-Irish Agreement. I will bring Senator Lydon's point before the Committee on Procedure and Privileges and, as a member of the broadcasting committee, I will raise with the Government Chief Whip today the lack of coverage of Seanad debates on serious topics on "Oireachtas Report". In general, the Seanad has received reasonably fair coverage, but it appears important items discussed in the afternoon are not being covered or reported. That is unfair.
What about the environmental debate yesterday?
I will include that.
Senator Burke called for an urgent debate on banking as did Senator Finneran yesterday. I will allow time for a debate on this issue. Senators O'Toole and Norris called for a debate on the British-Irish Agreement. This was also called for yesterday. I have no difficulty providing time for such a debate. Senator Hayes called for a debate on urban renewal. Members will be aware that this matter is in Brussels awaiting a decision. I hope we will have a successful conclusion to that decision at the earliest possible time. Senators O'Toole, Cassidy and O'Meara expressed their views on the Shannon River Bill. Senator Quinn raised many important points about small business. I am delighted he is concerned about small business because those of us who live in rural Ireland are only too well aware of the affects of bigger businesses on small ones. I have had an interest in this matter for some time. Perhaps we should have a debate on why it is necessary to have Sunday trading and why the greed of big business dictates this. I will pass Senator Quinn's views to the Minister concerned.
Order of Business agreed to.