The Order of Business is Nos. 1, 2 and 3. No. 1, to be taken without debate, is the referral of motion re the Fourth Protocol on the Amsterdam Treaty to the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights for discussion. No. 2 is Committee Stage of the Planning and Development Bill, 1999 (resumed). No. 3, statements on the report on health and smoking will be taken from 5.30 p.m., with contributions of spokespersons not to exceed 15 minutes and all other Senators not to exceed ten minutes. Statements to be concluded at 8 p.m.
Order of Business.
The Order of Business is agreeable. However, I am concerned that the amendments which we are being asked to discuss today were available in the media before they were available to spokespersons. Our spokesperson received them at 4.30 p.m. yesterday.
I understand the amendments were circulated by the Seanad office as soon as they were received. I want to clarify the situation.
Given that it was a weekend these amendments were available only yesterday to those Senators who live in the country. Our spokesperson will have something to say on this issue.
Last week I raised two points. First, I asked for a debate on immigration and on its many issues. We could have a calm and sober debate without the two parties scoring points off each other. The Leader indicated that he would make time available fairly soon for a debate on immigration.
I would also draw attention to a motion in my name and that of Senator Connor, No. 16 on the non-Government motions dealing with the whole question of tribunals. This is a long-term motion but in view of the controversy over the past few days about one tribunal, it is time as one of the Houses that establishes tribunals that we look again at the tribunal process. That motion would allow us to have a debate which might begin a change in public policy or the production of some alternative to tribunals. I am not rushing this motion but I ask the Leader to make time available.
I have raised the question of literacy on a number of occasions over the past year. I know people from the Leader's side have raised the same issue. At a time when we are talking about a new national plan or programme and developing the economy, it is crucial that we have a good look at this. Very often people raise this issue in terms of whether it is a threat to teachers. I would like to have this issue dealt with out in the open. It is hugely important that we have our view on it and that it is discussed here. There should also be an Irish initiative. We should not be dependent on international assessment of the size of our problem and how we deal with it. Lest there be any doubt about it, I support this idea. I will be pushing the Leader to have a full debate on literacy and for a response on how we should deal with it. I do not want to go into the issue itself but there are good reasons to look at such a debate at this stage. If the Leader has any difficulty with that then I can table a motion on it.
Another issue I wish to raise, as I have done recently, is the licensing laws. It is appalling that a publican should find himself in jail because he had people on his premises after hours. At this stage we are grown up people, we are a grown up State, we are part of Europe and the idea that publicans could find themselves in jail when there is so much else going on is appalling. I am not blaming the Garda or the courts but ourselves as legislators. The legislation should be completely changed. People should be able to buy alcohol and to drink when they want to do so. We are old enough to make such decisions and the current position is ridiculous. Regulating when people can drink is about as relevant as salmon licences at this stage.
I support Senator Manning's call for a debate on refugees because it is a major issue and will be discussed in the other House this week. We have called for a debate for some time to enable the House to consider the difficulties the Minister appears to be experiencing in putting together a proper policy on the issue.
I compliment the Minister for the Environment and Local Government on his statement that builders should be subject to a time limit in terms of the use of land banks. This is most important in the context of the crisis in housing. However, the Minister appeared to suggest an indication by his departmental officials that the city and county managers would not like directly elected mayors in cities. Will the Leader ask the Minister whether it is appropriate that such a decision should be based on the views of city and county managers? This decision should be made by the people, as happened in Britain, by way of a referendum. It should be brought to the Minister's attention that decisions of this magnitude should be made in that way. In the context of expanding local government—
We cannot have a long debate on the Order of Business on speculation in the media.
I am not sure it is speculation in the media. It was stronger than that.
It is speculation in the Seanad.
In the context of the Planning and Development Bill, democracy could be expanded and extended in this area.
Will the Leader arrange a debate on the survey published recently on drug use among young people in the European Union? It showed that six out of ten young people under the age of 16 in Ireland have experimented with soft drugs, particularly cannabis. Ireland also has double the rate of heroin experimentation in the same age group. Given the high incidence of drug use in Ireland, will the Leader arrange a debate at an early date on the comparative study in EU member states?
I again call for a debate on alcohol abuse and violence at and outside discos. Another young man was killed outside a disco last weekend and a footballer was seriously injured recently outside another disco. Many problems are associated with alcohol and discos. If these events took place outside amusement arcades, there would be protests outside the gates of Leinster House demanding their closure.
Ban the discos.
I ask the Leader to arrange a discussion on this matter and I appeal to the public to make the celebration of the birth of Christ a holy, peaceful and family occasion and not to bring sorrow to anybody's door.
During the debate on the Planning and Development Bill last Wednesday, the Minister indicated that he intended to introduce some new amendments to the Bill. I asked the Cathaoirleach if the Minister could indicate the contents of the amendments but I was told that it was not possible because we had not reached the relevant section. I accepted the Cathaoirleach's ruling, but I thought the amendments might be minor. However, that is not the case. They are an about face by the Minister and he has kowtowed to builders and developers.
I tabled amendments to the Bill as published and the Minister indicated then that he intended to introduce amendments. He had plenty of time to do so but I received the new amendments only yesterday at 4.30 p.m. and I have not had an opportunity to consider possible amendments to them. This was reported in the news media last week. It is not my job to respond to news reports or to the newspapers but to respond in this House. It is reprehensible that legislation which should be dealt with in this House is being dealt with in the media before it reaches us.
I strongly support Senator Coogan in everything he said. Senators were working co-operatively on this Bill but it clearly appears that the Minister has buckled under pressure from the housing industry. As a result a series of amendments have been tabled very late. I do not understand the Gaderene rush to put this Bill through. We have been working hard in the spirit of co-operation, but here we are, meeting at 12.30 p.m., which means there will be no break for lunch. That might seem a trivial thing but a small group of us have tabled a large number of considered amendments with the able assistance of the offices and staff of this House. We will now be expected to work through for hours without a break, particularly those Members who have tabled a large number of amendments. In a similar situation a couple of weeks ago, there was the idiotic picture of a Minister sending out for sandwiches and a pot of tea and eating them in the ante room during a vote. This is not the manner in which to conduct business. I had to bring in my sandwiches today and I am tempted to eat them in the Chamber as a protest. However, like the Minister, I will eat them in the ante room.
I ask the Leader of the House for a firm date for a discussion on the asylum seekers and refugee issue. He gave a commitment last week and I said I would watch this. It is unfortunate that we have again been gazumped by the lower House which is debating the issue today. We need to have a formal debate on the matter. I propose to change the Order of Business and to take item 3 under non-Government motions, in the names of myself and Senator Ryan, before any other business. I will decide whether to press the issue in light of the Leader's reply.
I ask the Leader, in light of the continuing disturbing revelations, for a debate on the abuse in industrial schools which has been revealed. I have received correspondence from victims appealing to us all in the Seanad not to allow this matter to be buried. It is particularly important because of the clear and disgraceful involvement of the Department of Education many years ago in concealing these matters.
To take up the points raised by Senators Norris and Coogan, the Planning and Development Bill is major legislation. Some of the criticisms may be over the top. We have already spent two days on Committee Stage, which is also scheduled for today and tomorrow. The amendments to Part V on affordable housing will not be reached until tomorrow, therefore there is some time for consideration of these amendments. Members of the Opposition parties agree that the Minister has been most accommodating. I am sure if they raise their concerns with the Minister today, he will ensure they are facilitated.
I support Senator Manning in seeking to have the motion on the tribunals brought forward. There is a real need, given the very slow progress in at least one of the tribunals, for the House to address the issue. No one wishes to interfere with the workings of a tribunal but something in the region of £5 million has been accumulated in expenses to date. Commentators believe it will continue for at least another few years. I have already asked the Leader that the House be kept advised and apprised of the costs and progress, or lack of it, involved in these tribunals. As a Member who supported the motion to establish the tribunal, I am aghast at the huge financial imposition on the taxpayer with the possibility of few results.
Another matter I intended raising has already been dealt with by Senator Cosgrave. This relates to the shocking report and revelations of the EU monitoring committee on drugs. This showed that Ireland has the highest rate of addiction to drugs in Europe. This is unacceptable and, as legislators, we should be extremely concerned about this matter.
We cannot tackle this matter on a single item basis because it involves the Departments of Health and Children, Education and Science and Justice, Equality and Law Reform, the latter having particular responsibility for enforcement. Will the Leader arrange to have a debate with the Ministers from those Departments in order that we might put forward suggestions to resolve this serious matter involving young people?
It is appropriate that my contribution follows that of Senator Walsh because I want to ask the Leader when we will have a debate that will offer some hope to people living in urban areas of deprivation where drug abuse is rampant. If we had tackled the problem of out-of-control teenagers and parents some years ago, I am convinced we would not be facing our current difficulties. I can only assume that people have been walking around blindfolded and cannot see the major threat posed to society by drug abuse and the breakdown of law and order in areas of urban deprivation. I request that time be set aside for a debate on this issue because it will not go away.
I assume the Minister will respond in the same manner in which he began tackling the drugs problem, that is by putting into each Garda division a rapid response unit to ensure that citizens retain the right to live and enjoy their lives. I will be interested to hear the Leader's response to my request because I wish to know what is going to be done.
I support Senator O'Toole's request for a debate on literacy. There are many long-term unemployed people who wish to seek work but cannot do so because they are unable to read and write. I know the Minister is aware that this important aspect of the educational system is being neglected.
Will the Leader indicate when the adult education Bill will be introduced? The administration of adult education is changing rapidly and it is important that the Bill comes on stream quickly in order to deal with the problems people raise with me and to which I am not able to provide answers.
Will the Leader bring to the attention of the Minister for Health and Children the need to find an immediate resolution to the current crisis in the home help service? People are no longer available to work for elderly people for £3 or £3.50 per hour because they can earn far more in the private sector. We need a core of full-time carers permanently employed by the health boards to work in the homes of those who require their services. A significant number of senior citizens cannot be discharged from our hospitals because there are no home helps to look after them.
I join Senators O'Toole and Ormonde in calling for a debate on literacy. I attended an international conference recently on overseas development co-operation and I was disappointed to hear the new head of UNDP, Mr. Bullock Brown, categorically state that according to an OECD report Ireland has an illiteracy rate of 25 per cent. Some official sources suggest that this figure is out of date but, nevertheless, it is not acceptable that with its Celtic tiger economy Ireland has an illiteracy rate of 25 per cent. Regardless of whether the blame lies with the education system or in the home, action must be taken to eliminate this problem.
In recent weeks a heated debate has taken place in the media and in the Oireachtas on the plight of illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. We are approaching Christmas and I ask the Leader for a proper debate on this matter, homing in on the reason these people are here, where they come from and the economic and social conditions in their countries of origin. We should examine if there is any way in which we can help through our own or international resources to eliminate some of the causes of this immigration. The debate should not home in on what is happening in various places around Dublin city. We should try to see what we can do. There is a sign in Camden Street over the Concern office which states that ten million people will die of hunger in the next few months. The debate should be about whether we can do something about it.
Hear, hear.
It is time we tried to address the problem of world hunger and to redress the lack of power by the people who are coming here looking for asylum. That debate should be initiated in this House rather than anywhere else. I ask the Leader if that could take place before Christmas while, as Senator Norris would say, Christian charity is on everybody's mind. Could there be a debate as soon as possible, if not before Christmas, then immediately afterwards?
At a time when we are told that the economy is awash with money and in view of the budget next week, I ask the Leader of the House to seek a once-off allocation for a very needy section of our community, the huge number of people who have made applications under the housing aid for the elderly scheme. This is a very good scheme administered by the health board but it ran out of money very early this year. Facing the end of this century and a new millennium, the generation of people who have worked extremely hard to do a lot of good for this economy need to be looked after. I ask the Leader of the House to bring that to the attention of the relevant Minister.
Before I call the Leader to reply, I once again inform Senators that many of the matters which were raised on the Order of Business would have been suitable for discussion on the Adjournment.
As the Cathaoirleach has quite correctly pointed out, as soon as we got the amendments to the Planning Bill we gave them to the Senators. On the remarks made by Senators Coogan and Manning and other Senators about the planning Bill – it is major legislation which will be amended and re-amended during its passage through each of the Houses. As it is being initiated here, they will appreciate that the Minister is trying to be helpful concerning the many reasonable and good suggestions coming from the Seanad. The amendment put down by the Minister yesterday, amendment No. 254, is very unlikely to be reached today as we only have four and a half hours debate on the Bill. However, I take the point made by Senator Coogan, who is a long standing Senator, and that of Senator Manning. I give my assurance that we will do every thing we can to assist the Senators during the passage of the Bill. The Cathaoirleach has pointed out that when amendments arrive, they will be passed on immediately.
Senators Joe O'Toole, Ann Ormonde, Mick Lanigan and Joe Costello are all calling for a debate on literacy and adult education. I have agreed to this debate and I will see by tomorrow what date I can allocate to this before the Christmas recess.
I agree with Senator Manning and other Senators who called for a debate on the success or lack of success of the tribunals and the alternative, the example of the Committee of Public Accounts and how they conducted their business. This is a very suitable time to assess this and I will inform the House tomorrow of the date for this discussion as well.
Senators Costello and Coogan and other Senators raised the EU monitoring report on drug abuse in Ireland. I will allow time for this, hopefully before Christmas.
Senator Willie Farrell called for a debate on drug abuse, and the abuse of alcohol, especially coming up to Christmas. This is timely. It should be taken with the debate on drug abuse. I also regret the incidents that have taken place in past weeks at entertainment venues where young people congregate. It is not the fault of the owners of the premises because drug abuse is the cause of the problems.
Smoking is one of the greatest forms of drug abuse and Senator Ridge called for a debate on it some time ago. It will take place this evening between 5.30 p.m. and 8 p.m. and I hope that many Senators will contribute. About 75 per cent of all cases admitted to medical wards in the Midland Health Board area over the past five years were of respiratory failure, all of which were related to smoking. That puts the dangers of smoking and the damage it does into perspective. I look forward to a lively debate later.
I will forward Senator O'Dowd's request to the Minister for Health and Children and, as he said, this matter is suitable for debate during Private Members' business or as an Adjournment Matter. Senator Tom Hayes referred to a problem with housing aid funding. This matter could also be dealt with during Private Members' business. You have been very accommodating with regard to Private Members' business, a Chathaoirligh, and given that we are recessing on 16 December legislation must take priority. The Cathaoirleach will facilitate Senators regarding Private Members' business and I earnestly ask them to take this route. Senator Norris called for a debate on abuses in industrial schools. I will endeavour to accommodate his request before the Christmas recess.
Senator Norris has moved an amendment to the Order of Business, "That No. 23, motion No. 3, be taken before No. 1". However, since it was not seconded in debate—
May I second it at this stage?
No, Senator, I am sorry.
It is my fault.
I am sure it will be seen as a shot across the bows.
A Chathaoirligh, the Leader did not even reply giving a date for my request.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
No.
Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."
Tá
|
Bohan, Eddie.Callanan, Peter.Cassidy, Donie.Cregan, JohnDardis, John.Farrell, Willie.Finneran, Michael.Fitzgerald, Liam.Fitzgerald, Tom.Gibbons, Jim. |
Keogh, Helen.Kett, Tony.Kiely, Rory.Lanigan, Mick.Leonard, Ann.Lydon, Don.Mooney, Paschal.Ó Murchú, Labhrás.Ormonde, Ann.Walsh, Jim. |
Níl
|
Caffrey, Ernie.Coogan, Fintan.Cosgrave, Liam T.Costello, Joe.Doyle, Joe.Hayes, Tom. |
Henry, Mary.Norris, David.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Toole, Joe.Ridge, Thérèse.Ross, Shane. |
Tellers: Tá, Senators T. Fitzgerald and Keogh; Níl, Senators Norris and Ross.
Question declared carried.