The Order of Business is Nos. 1, 2 and 3. No. 1 is to be taken without debate. On No. 2, Second Stage of the National Minimum Wage Bill, 2000, contributions of spokespersons may not exceed 30 minutes and of other Senators 20 minutes. Business will be interrupted from 1.15 p.m. to 2.30 p.m. Committee Stage of No. 3, the Shannon River Council Bill, 1998, will be taken from 6 p.m. to 8 p.m., business to resume thereafter if not previously concluded.
Order of Business.
As far as I am concerned the Order of Business is agreeable. It is ironic that a week after the partnership programme was agreed our transport system is in unprecedented chaos and major hardship has been inflicted on thousands of people throughout the country. This is not the place to discuss the rights and wrongs of the matter. All we can do is urge those concerned to avail of the existing mechanisms to help resolve the dispute speedily, to resume work and thereby minimise the inconvenience being caused to so many people. When this dispute is resolved, and we hope it will be happen speedily, serious questions must be asked about the future structure of public transport. Major issues, such as the possible privatisation of the public transport system and the breaking up of the existing monopoly, must be raised. When matters have calmed down, I hope the Leader will arrange for a full debate in the House on this matter.
I am delighted no Government amendments are tabled to the Shannon River Council Bill. That means we will probably be able to dispose of the Bill this evening and move to implement it as soon as possible.
While it is not appropriate to comment on the current dispute on transportation, for the half million workers who committed themselves to a new national agreement last week it is of major importance that nothing should happen to destabilise it. People are closely monitoring the position. Workers, unions, management and the Government have invested greatly in that agreement. It was difficult to achieve and ensuring its stability is all important. Other disputes cannot be dealt with in a way that introduces any instability or creates problems for those people who have committed themselves to that programme which will cover a period of two years and nine months.
I put it to the Leader of the House, as I did on yesterday's Order of Business – perhaps he neglected to respond to it yesterday – that when we took Second Stage of the Shannon River Council Bill, he generously supported the request that additional time should be allocated to the Committee Stage debate on the Bill. If the National Minimum Wage Bill, 2000, is dealt with by 6 p.m. – I accept the importance of ensuring that legislation is passed as many people are depending on it, it is part of the national agree ment and a commitment was given to introduce it – I ask that the time allocated for Committee Stage should be open ended.
I echo the concerns expressed by Senator Manning and Senator O'Toole about the Dublin Bus dispute and the transport chaos that pervades our city. The base of the dispute is the very low pay and very long hours bus drivers have to work. The Minister for Public Enterprise should be asked to come into the House to make a statement on the dispute. The dispute was discussed during Question Time in the Dáil yesterday and it is being discussed in the media, yet there has been no discussion or statement on it in this House. There is a good deal of trade union and managerial experience in this House and I am sure the Minister would benefit from such a discussion. Will the Leader ask the Minister to come into this House today or tomorrow to give us the benefit of her views and enable us to give her the benefit of our views on a way forward to resolve this critical dispute?
Will the Leader arrange a debate on Northern Ireland? He mentioned yesterday that he would do so. The Taoiseach's comment yesterday that there was not a hope of decommissioning by 22 May was precipitate as General de Chastlelain should make that determination. It is not desirable that a Taoiseach or Prime Minister should intervene at this point because there are still seven weeks before we reach that date. The matter is critical and it seems there are no bilateral or multilateral talks taking place at present. It is appropriate that we should have a thorough debate on this matter in the House.
It would be useful if the House debated transport policy in terms not only of Dublin Bus but the wider issues involved. We must recognise that the level of disruption is now such that something urgent is required to allow people to get to their places of work and places of entertainment. In that context, the Ministers for Public Enterprise and the Defence and the Government should arrange for the Army to provide a transport service for the public.
I want to emphasise a point I made on yesterday's Order of Business – that the remark by a trade union representative of the National Bus and Railworkers Union that this would be scab labour was outrageous. I rejected that remark yesterday and I will not go back over that ground except to say it is urgent that we address this issue. People are entitled to travel to their places of work without having to put up with illegal picketing or an unofficial strike such as that which took place on the rail lines yesterday. They are wider issues involved. I am sure the Cathaoirleach would prefer if we discussed these issues during the course of the debate. My priority is that people should be able to get to their places of work or place of entertainment and the Army has a role to place in ensuring that at this stage.
Over the past weeks several Senators have sought a debate on water quality. A related issue, the dangers associated with the fluoridation of water, has also arisen. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Health and Children to come into the House to discuss this issue as a matter of urgency as there are indications that the fluoridation of water is causing a serious public health risk, which would be a matter of concern for us all? It is difficult to extract information on the public policy on water fluoridation and the dangers associated with it. The health boards are not prepared to make that information available and the role of the Irish Dental Association also needs to be examined. Another aspect that needs to be considered is the source of the fluoride.
The Minister for Public Enterprise is in a lot of hot water at present. Most places are trying to conserve water with regard to the washing of towels because of the use of detergent and so on.
Suds.
I also agree the Minister should come to the House, not only for the reasons outlined by my colleagues but because I understand she made some comments about retaining the Great Southern Hotel Group in State ownership pending the partial flotation of Aer Rianta. The Minister owes it to the Houses of the Oireachtas to clarify this matter before making statements outside the Houses. The matter should be clarified in the national interest at the earliest opportunity.
I apologise for my mobile telephone ringing earlier. I thought I had switched it off before I came into the House. I disagree with Senator Dardis's suggestion that the Army should be brought in to alleviate the problems associated with the current industrial relations problems in CIE. This matter should be addressed within CIE. It is not the Army's role to get involved in such matters. The trade union leader, Mr. Bunting—
I allowed some latitude to the leaders of the groups.
—should get together with the relevant manager in CIE and try to resolve the problems. The public is being discommoded.
Senator Lanigan, please. I will not allow a debate on this matter. A debate has been sought and we cannot pre-empt that debate on the Order of Business. I have allowed a certain amount of latitude to the leaders in the House and I would prefer if the Member did not go into detail on this matter.
Before St. Patrick's Day, I sought a debate on the fact that 5,000 children are dying each month in Iraq. The Leader agreed there should be an urgent debate and he said it would be held at an early stage. Ms Maura Quinn from UNICEF, who recently returned from Iraq, addressed the sub-committee on overseas development yesterday. Mr. Eamonn Meehan from Trocáire also vividly described what is happening to the children in Iraq. I am not referring to the regime but the necessity for a proper debate on what is happening as a result of the lack of food and medicines in Iraq. The Leader promised an early debate on this matter and I ask him to arrange it as soon as possible.
I do not wish to enter the debate on the issue of transport but fundamental questions must be asked about the make up of the public monopoly, CIE. Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of the dispute, those involved should abide by the structures already in place for dealing with industrial relations issues. Every other worker must abide by those structures and the intimidation of people trying to get to work in a private bus which appears to have taken place today is unhelpful. It is not appropriate that those people should be prevented from doing so.
I support the call for a debate on transportation policy. There is a need to protect the rights of people who wish to attend work and the Programme for Prosperity and Fairness to which the unions agreed. This matter should be given priority in the House and dealt with as soon as possible.
I support Senator Gibbons's request for a debate on fluoridation as an element of water quality. Perhaps the Leader could incorporate this matter in the day long debate already requested on general environmental protection issues, such as litter pollution, waste management and other matters. Perhaps Senator Gibbons could agree to this suggestion and the Leader could arrange such a discussion. There is a need for a day long debate on these fundamental issues.
Senators Manning, O'Toole, Costello, Dardis, Keogh and Chambers expressed their serious concerns about the transport strike which is taking place. I will pass on their views to the Minister after the Order of Business. I congratulate taxi drivers in Dublin on the work they are doing to assist small businesses and people who wish to get to work. They started work at 4.30 a.m. yesterday and today to enable staff to get to work from 6 a.m. The staff of hotels and other businesses must start work early and I congratulate taxi drivers on being so responsible. I hope a breakthrough will be made today. Those involved must realise that there is a need to negotiate a settlement. I expressed my views about the strike two weeks ago and I hope progress is made today.
Senators O'Toole and Manning referred to the Shannon River Council Bill. I presume the Government has not tabled amendments because the Bill was drafted by Deputy Daly. Senator O'Toole requested that this evening's debate on the Bill be extended. I would normally have no difficulty in granting such an extension but I must consider the position in which the staff of the House find themselves in that they may not be able to get home as a result of the transport strike. I do not believe anyone would ask the staff to work past 8 p.m. this evening but I will have no difficulty allocating time to conclude the debate on another occasion, if necessary.
Senator Costello requested a debate on Northern Ireland. I have agreed to make time available and I will endeavour to arrange the debate as soon as possible.
Senators Gibbons and Quill called for a full day debate on water quality, litter pollution and other environmental issues. I have decided to set aside next Tuesday afternoon for an open-ended debate on this serious and important matter. I look forward to the participation of all those Senators who have requested such a debate on the Order of Business in recent months. I will allow as much time as is necessary for the debate.
I will pass on Senator Coghlan's point of view about the Great Southern Hotel Group, particularly its hotels in the Kerry region, to the relevant Minister.
With regard to Senator Lanigan's request concerning Iraq, I gave a commitment to hold a debate on Iraq, overseas development, Mozambique and other issues. I am endeavouring to invite the Minister for Foreign Affairs to come before the House for such a debate. However, he is travelling abroad quite a lot at present and a great deal of his time is taken up with matters involving Northern Ireland. I will arrange to hold the debate as soon as possible.
Order of Business agreed to.