Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 6 Mar 2008

Vol. 188 No. 21

Cluster Munitions: Motion.

Senator David Norris

I move:

"That Seanad Éireann welcomes:

(1) the role being played by the Government in international efforts to secure a total prohibition on the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions through its active participation in international initiatives to address the issue comprehensively, in line with its commitments in the programme for Government;

(2) the convening by the Government of a diplomatic conference in Dublin in May 2008 to negotiate a new instrument of international humanitarian law on cluster munitions that cause unacceptable harm to civilians;

(3) the intention of the Government shortly to establish a national committee on international humanitarian law which will have, as its first task, the preparation of comprehensive draft legislation to give effect to the new instrument, thereby enabling its early introduction in the Oireachtas;

and urges the Government —

(4) to support research, publication and awareness raising initiatives on this subject nationally and internationally;

(5) to ensure that the draft legislation provides not just for the prohibition of use, production, stockpiling and transfer of cluster munitions but also to make provision for assistance to victims of cluster munitions, for the clearance of areas contaminated by unexploded cluster munitions and for assistance in the destruction of stockpiles of cluster munitions, among other matters to be agreed in negotiations on the future instrument at the diplomatic conference in Dublin in May;

(6) to increase support for the clearance of land contaminated by land mines, cluster munitions and other unexploded ordnance;

(7) to increase support for education on the risks of land mines, cluster munitions and other unexploded ordnance;

(8) to increase support for rehabilitation of survivors and their socioeconomic integration; and

(9) to ensure that no public funds are invested in any company involved in or associated with the production of cluster munitions."

I welcome the Minister to the House. We all appreciate his efforts in this area, and we know the sincerity with which he makes them. It is particularly heartening that this is an all-party motion, which puts a positive framework on the whole issue. I welcome the extra comments made, to which I will refer later.

I wish to make a very strong protest about the way in which this business has been ordered. I am the originator of this motion, but I was not told about it at the time it was being changed; in fact I was in traffic when I found out about it half an hour ago. I was told that all the Whips agreed, but that is not the case. My Whip did not agree, nor did the Fine Gael Whip. It was just bounced on us. A serious motion that deals with people's lives should not be treated in this fashion. It is a disgrace that this happened and I strongly resent it. I was meeting somebody for lunch and a briefing, but that has now been aborted. However, I am prepared to go ahead with this, because it is such a positive development.

The motion that I have just moved is not the exact motion that went on the Order Paper originally. That motion has been amended in the usual way to welcome the role of the Government and so on. It has got a little bit of a massage and I do not mind that, but I would like to point out that the original motion, in my name and in the name of Deputy Higgins, was passed unanimously in the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. It read as follows:

"That the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs urges the Government:

(1) to play an effective role towards securing a total prohibition on the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions by its active participation in international initiatives to address the issue comprehensively;

(2) to enact a national law prohibiting the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions as we know them;

(3) to support research, publication and awareness raising initiatives on this subject nationally and internationally;

(4) to follow the example that prevailed in June 1996 when Ireland, in anticipation of the text of the mine ban convention, enacted unilaterally a ban on land mines and in this regard that Ireland would now take a similar initiative in anticipation of the discussion of the text of a UN level prohibition;

(5) that such legislation on the part of Ireland be as inclusive as possible in terms of definition of cluster munitions, the addressing of existing stockpiles and all aspects of production, sale, transmission and use;

(6) to increase support for the clearance of contaminated land by land mines, cluster munitions and other unexploded ordinance;

(7) to increase support for mine-risk education;

(8) to increase support for rehabilitation of mine survivors and their socioeconomic integration pending the outlawing of land mines internationally; and

(9) to ensure that no public funds are invested in any company involved in or associated with these inhuman practices.

It is very important that we take this matter seriously and the Minister has shown evidence of doing so. There has been correspondence in the newspapers and I know that the Minister has recently returned from a conference in New Zealand. It is important that all this is incremental, and there will be a conference in Croke Park in May. The Minister answered critics by saying that the Government wants to await the outcome of this conference, in order to put together the most comprehensive ban, which is fine. However, Ms Margaretta D'Arcy raised the fact that the National Pensions Reserve Fund has invested €500 million in five companies that produce cluster bombs. These are Raytheon, General Dynamics and 1-3 Communications from the USA, EADS from the Netherlands and Thales from France. In today's newspaper the Minister said that the question of investment had been raised, and that he has contacted the Minister for Finance and the National Pensions Reserve Fund with a view to ensuring that no public funds are invested in any company involved in, or associated with the production of munitions. That is vitally important. I have often raised the issue of investment in some of these rather sinister companies and the need for an ethical investment provision governing the NPRF.

These cluster bombs are an appalling weapon and they have been used all over the world. It is disgraceful that a group of countries, led by the US, Russia and China, have tried to mitigate the impact of the treaties and have not signed up to them. They have done this because they are manufacturing the bombs. We need to know how these bombs affect people, and an example provides a human face to the issue. This is the testimony of a Serbian woman called Gita Jovic, recalling when a bomb hit the street on which she was standing. She stated:

At first, there was this noise, something I have never heard before. And then it hit me in the leg. And then the other leg, too. I felt severe pain in my right leg, but I did not look at it. I did not know what to do. There were detonations everywhere, cars were getting hit. I managed to cross to the other side of the street and to lie down behind a car. A car nearby was burning. I was in a state of shock, but I was also aware of everything that was happening. My colleagues started coming out of the building, they were running around, looking for the injured. I was yelling, calling them, but they could not see me. I tried to stand up. I was wearing trousers; I tried to pull them up a bit. It was then that I saw what had happened for the first time. I remember thinking clearly — so strange, a bare bone, no muscle tissue at all. It was my right leg. My other leg did not react at all and there were many small bomb fragments in it. I was picked up eventually by a volunteer who collected the dead and the injured in the streets during attacks. He took me to the hospital.

She begged him to throw her out of the window, as she was in such unbearable agony. These bombs are not militarily precise. In the past 72 hours of the war in Lebanon, 1 million of the bombs were dropped by the Israelis and they are often picked up in a particular form by children, long after the military conflict has ended. Therefore, these bombs cause civilian casualties, with children the most vulnerable. In light of the fact that there have been changes, can the Minister guarantee as positive as possible an interpretation of the articles in my original motion, such as article 5? It states that such legislation on the part of Ireland should be as inclusive as possible in terms of the definition of cluster munitions. No cluster munitions should be excluded on the basis of self-destruction. This is not realistic self-destruction. These self-destructive mechanisms often fail. Many of the weapons systems are complicated and sometimes one of 30 things can wrong, and the self-destructive features do not work. For sensor-fused weapons, each cluster bomb is programmed with individual guidance systems to locate the target. The argument is that each bomb will represent a precision strike, but that is rubbish. They seek metal mass or heat sources. They can hit a market or a factory and they can clearly destroy civilians.

The Minister may well have heard the speech of Mr. Branislav Kapetanovic at the conference in New Zealand. He was a victim of a cluster bomb and he said in his speech:

Let me remind you of why we are here today. We are here because more than 90% of casualties caused by cluster munitions are civilians. Thirty countries and territories of the world have a problem with contamination by unexploded sub-munitions. In the course of just one year after the war in Lebanon ended, 45 of my fellow deminers, 45 people who were trained to work with cluster munitions, have become victims of cluster munitions while clearing unexploded sub-munitions. All this tells us that cluster munitions do not discriminate among their victims and there are no cluster bombs that can guarantee anybody's safety.

If professionals are being injured, what chance do ordinary civilians have to get away from these filthy things? The letter concludes with the comment that before 1999 none of Mr. Kapetanovic's compatriots considered it possible that cluster bombs would be used in their country which is, after all, a European state, rather than some remote African colony of which we know little. Cluster munitions, therefore, affect us all.

We should recall the role Ireland played in the past, of which I am proud. It was the skill of Frank Aiken that produced the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and Ireland was among the first three or four countries to sign up to the Oslo declaration. What a pity we were not the first country to do so, particularly as we do not possess cluster munitions or the means to distribute them. This places us in a good position from which we could have led. I wish we had led the world but we can use our moral force now. It is particularly important that the Minister lives up to his undertakings and ensures we do not invest in any companies that produce these devilish weapons which attack human life.

I pay tribute to Austria, which was among the first countries, if not the first country to ban cluster munitions. On 5 December 2007, just a few months ago, at the Vienna conference on cluster munitions, Ms Ursula Plassnik, Austrian Minister for European and International Affairs stated:

I am proud to inform you that the Austrian Parliament will adopt tomorrow a national law that bans the possession, use, production, development and transfer of cluster munitions. Once this law is in force, all types of cluster munitions will be illegal, including so called "intelligent" sensor-fused munitions. We hope that this law will become a trend setter and we stand ready to assist other states in their own legislative efforts.

This is the way forward. I congratulate the Minister and I know his heart is in this issue. He should drive ahead and I wish him well in Croke Park. It is a most important, humane issue, on which we must continue to apply pressure.

We should shame countries such as Russia, China and the United States of America. I ask the Minister to send a letter to the ambassadors of these countries expressing our deep concern that countries which pose as civilised should wish to continue to manufacture these horrible weapons. To return to my protest, I am very angry about the way in which this debate was handled.

An Cathaoirleach

I call Senator Dan Boyle.

Senator Dan Boyle

I second the motion. I understand the Minister would like to speak at this point. I will speak later.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Deputy Dermot Ahern)

I thank Senator Boyle for allowing me to speak at this point. I also thank Senator Norris for his comments.

Senator David Norris

On a point of order, I exonerate the Minister from any culpability in this matter. I was in touch with his office and understand it was prepared to be flexible with regard to timing. I should have made that clear to be fair to the Minister.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

I was somewhat bemused by the Senator's remarks in that respect. In any event, I was pleased to be asked to consider an all-party motion, on the basis of which all of us should unite to condemn a horrible practice by other states. I value the commitment of the Seanad and all parties to combating the scourge of these weapons. I welcome support for the role the Government has played in international efforts to secure a total prohibition on the production, stockpiling, transfer and use of cluster munitions, in particular, through our lead role in the upcoming diplomatic conference in Dublin, which is expected to complete negotiations on the first ever instrument of international humanitarian law specifically directed against cluster munitions.

Several times during moves by a number of nations to address this issue, I offered to host the conference on cluster munitions in Dublin, even though, from a logistical point of view, it was clear that it would be difficult to host an event lasting for approximately two weeks and attended by delegates from every part of the world. While the conference will bring substantial business to the city, it is also a significant operation and questions were asked as to whether the Department had sufficient logistical means to organise it. I am pleased we are hosting the event and hope it will be very successful.

I appreciate the support for the Government's plan to establish a national committee on international humanitarian law which will have, as its first task, the preparation of comprehensive draft legislation on the cluster munitions issue. I have read commentary in the newspapers arguing that the Government should proceed with the legislation. However, I have received strong advice that we should wait until the conference produces what I hope will be a positive resolution before framing legislation. I understand some important non-governmental organisations have indicated we should wait until after the conference in May before introducing legislation. I do not want to proceed with legislation before May in case we find that, as a result of the May conference, we will have to return to the drawing board and change the legislation. I want to get it right at the first attempt. Waiting for a few months until the issue is considered fully at the Croke Park conference is the correct way to proceed.

The Programme for Government 2007-2012 makes a commitment to "campaign for a complete ban on the use of cluster munitions." It adds that in "the absence of a full ban we will seek agreement on an immediate freeze on the use of cluster munitions pending the establishment of effective international instruments to address humanitarian concerns regarding their use." My party's pre-election manifesto included a similar commitment. I am pleased to inform the Seanad that Ireland has played an important role in international efforts to this end through its participation in the UN Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons and, more significantly, through active engagement and leadership in the Oslo process. The Dublin diplomatic conference on cluster munitions, which the Government will host in Croke Park in May 2008, will be the critical stage in the process. While difficult issues remain, I am confident that it will be possible to finalise a treaty at the conference.

My officials obviously offer a view on the likely success of the conference. We need a strong resolution and commitment from member states. I agree with Senator Norris that certain nations should be named and shamed for using cluster munitions. I have been reasonably vocal in that respect and will maintain that position.

For several years, Ireland has been expressing its concerns at the unacceptable consequences of the use of cluster munitions in the UN context. Two main issues arise. First, the use of cluster munitions can be indiscriminate at the time of use, thus harming civilians who are within range. In practice this is usually the case. Second, the high failure rate of sub-munitions at the time of impact creates an enduring hazard of unexploded ordnance, causing casualties long after the cessation of hostilities and making much land unusable. At present, international humanitarian law does not adequately address these concerns. The lethal consequences of these weapons were most recently apparent in southern Lebanon but have also affected south-east Asia, the Balkans and other theatres of war.

In light of the absence of progress in Geneva and inspired by the process which led to the conclusion of the Ottawa Convention on Anti-Personnel Mines ten years ago, Norway convened a meeting in Oslo in February 2007 of countries ready to explore ways to address the issue of cluster munitions in a determined and effective manner. Forty-six states present adopted the Oslo declaration which committed them to conclude by 2008 a legally binding international instrument that will "prohibit the use, production, transfer and stockpiling of cluster munitions that cause unacceptable harm to civilians.'' They also committed to co-operation and assistance for survivors and affected communities, clearance of affected areas and destruction of stockpiles.

Ireland is one of seven states driving the Oslo process. The others are Norway, Austria, New Zealand, Mexico, Peru and the Holy See. We have participated actively in a series of conferences in Oslo, Lima, Vienna and Wellington to identify the issues, clarify positions and formulate a draft treaty. Political momentum has grown significantly. When I became actively involved in this issue I was told that Ireland might be on its own and I said I do not mind if we are on our own. I believe it was the right thing to do. There were only a few countries involved at the start of the campaign on landmines and now most of the countries in the world have signed up to the anti-landmine treaty.

At the most recent conference in Wellington two weeks ago, more than 80 states immediately endorsed the Wellington Declaration, which lays the foundation for the Dublin Diplomatic Conference. Many more states are expected to indicate their support in the coming months and to participate in the negotiations in Dublin.

Significant differences remain to be resolved on key issues such as definitions, any possible period of transition to a ban and future military co-operation, including in United Nations mandated missions, with states not party to the convention. There is also reason to believe that these can be resolved and prospective solutions for many less contentious issues have already emerged in the course of the earlier meetings in the process.

I am confident we are on track for the adoption of a comprehensive and effective convention that will get on board users, producers and cluster munitions affected states. It is also our aim to establish a new norm of international humanitarian law which will influence the behaviour of every state engaging in conflict, regardless of whether it has ratified the convention. This has been the experience of the Ottawa Convention in stigmatising the use of landmines, even by states not party to it, and we believe that experience can be emulated.

I assure the Seanad that the Government is fully seized of the other issues in the motion under discussion. As I have stated, the key aim of the new treaty will be to prohibit the unacceptable humanitarian harm caused by cluster munitions. However, we must also look to the past impact and the damage inflicted on societies and individuals by these horrendous weapons. I have seen the terrible risk posed to civilian populations by unexploded cluster munitions in Lebanon, which I visited the year before last. That visit was probably instrumental in me taking up the cudgel here in respect of these issues because I saw for myself the effects on the ground. I spoke with the Irish military personnel working on the ground with the Finns to de-mine particular areas and saw the different types of cluster munitions. For whatever reason they appear to be manufactured in a way that they look like toys in some instances. I discussed the issue with the military personnel there and when I came home I discussed it again with some of the military personnel here. It is clear these munitions are used in circumstances, as Senator Norris said, where armies are leaving a particular territory and making that territory unusable for many years to come and putting civilian lives at risk.

The draft convention contains strong provisions for humanitarian assistance for victims, the clearance of areas contaminated by unexploded cluster munitions, assistance in the destruction of stockpiles of weapons and risk education. I am hopeful that the treaty which emerges from the negotiations will be the most comprehensive of its kind in addressing those needs.

It seems certain that legislation will be required to enable Ireland ratify the convention when it is agreed. While Ireland has never possessed cluster munitions and is therefore not in the situation of a number of states which have adopted national prohibitions, it is the Government's intention to propose that this legislation should enact a domestic ban. To ensure that our legislation is of the highest possible quality, the Government has therefore agreed to establish a new national committee on humanitarian law, whose first task will be to begin consideration of the measures necessary to give effect to the future convention. We believe this is a better way to go than bringing in legislation before May and then having to come back to change it after May.

In consultation with all parties in the Oireachtas, the draft legislation, when prepared, will be given the necessary priority in the Oireachtas timetable. Ireland was one of the first countries to ratify the Ottawa Convention and it would be an honour, and in line with Government policy, for Ireland to be among the first to ratify the cluster munitions convention when it comes out in the Dublin conference.

Some have suggested we should enact a national ban even in advance of the conference. I understand the desire to demonstrate leadership in this area but it makes sense to wait and see what is required in terms of legislation to ratify the expected convention. I assure the House there will not be any delay thereafter. Moreover, organising the conference is itself a major task and will show in a practical way our commitment to focusing on making it a success.

Civil society has played a welcome and valuable role in the Oslo process. The Cluster Munition Coalition, CMC, the international umbrella body representing more than 200 non-governmental organisations campaigning on this issue, has been an important partner throughout and its representatives will attend the diplomatic conference in May. My Department remains in close contact with the CMC and with other NGOs active in this area and is working closely with them on preparations for the conference. I am appreciative of the co-operation and mutual understanding that has prevailed with the CMC on the range of issues in play and its general support for our principled national stance.

The United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have been active in their engagement and advocacy on the cluster munitions issue and staunch in their support for the Oslo process. Their ongoing contribution is invaluable and I look forward to welcoming them to the conference.

The motion urges support for research, publication and awareness raising initiatives on this subject nationally and internationally. It also urges support for victim assistance, clearance of areas contaminated by unexploded remnants of war, destruction of stockpiles, risk education and support for rehabilitation of survivors and their socio-economic integration. As I have outlined, these issues will be adequately addressed in the convention but the Government is already committed to those objectives and is working to fulfil them in close co-operation with the NGOs and with UN agencies. Since 2000, we have provided some €20 million in funding to meet needs in this area. Irish Aid has an ongoing relationship with a number of the leading NGOs operating in this field. I am proud to have seen for myself some of their activities on the ground, bringing some relief and support to victims and their communities. Our partners include HALO Trust, Mine Action Group and Handicap International, and we have also provided funding for Explosive Remnants of War, ERW, relief measures in Somalia, Afghanistan, Angola, Mozambique and Iraq among other countries. My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Kitt, has recently approved €1.875 million of funding for HALO Trust's de-mining activities in three countries in 2008.

It is anticipated that the expansion of the Irish Aid budget will result in an increase in the level of funding available to respond to proposals from suitable partners. This will assist us in implementing the ambitious and far-reaching provisions of the convention which I expect to be agreed in Dublin in May and carried forward into national legislation.

The question of investment related to the production or financing of cluster munitions has been raised also. I am pleased the motion highlighted that issue. As a result of it being brought to my attention some months ago I asked my Department to raise the issue. I spoke on the issue personally with the chief executive officer of the National Pensions Reserve Fund some months ago. My Department continues to examine best practice on ethical investment by the investment funds of like-minded countries. With that in mind, I initiated contacts some time ago with my colleague, the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance. While not seeking to interfere with the independence of the National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission, which is independent under the legislation passed by the Houses of the Oireachtas, my objective was to try to ensure that no public funds are invested in any company involved in or associated with the production of cluster munitions. While there are a number of legal and practical issues still to be teased out, the reaction from both the Tánaiste and Minister for Finance and the National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission has been positive and supportive.

Senator David Norris

Should there not be ethical guidelines for the National Pensions Reserve Fund Commission?

Deputy Dermot Ahern

There are. We are talking about ensuring that from now on, and particularly in the context of any future legislation, there will be a ban on the investment by our pension reserve funds in any companies that manufacture cluster munitions.

Senator David Norris

What about existing investments?

An Cathaoirleach

The Minister, without interruption.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

That is an issue for the independent National Pensions Reserve Fund. It has signed up to ethical guidelines in that respect but when it was pointed out that there are reports that some funds have been invested in cluster munitions, it is in agreement with Government policy, which is enunciated in the programme for Government and I have indicated clearly to it that it is the desire of Government to ensure no pension funds are invested in cluster munitions manufacturing companies and, if required, legislation will be put in place——

Senator David Norris

That is very helpful.

Deputy Dermot Ahern

——to ensure they are given cover in that respect. The Government is determined to achieve the strongest possible prohibition on cluster munitions and to make a meaningful difference to the lives and livelihoods of vulnerable civilians around the world who have suffered from their use.

I have made clear my personal and long-standing engagement on this issue. I have been active on this for the past two and a half years, especially since I returned from Lebanon. Ireland is playing a strong leadership role in international efforts to this end through its participation in the Oslo process and the convening of the Dublin conference in May. We are committed to carrying forward the outcome of the conference into domestic legislation and policy and to using the resources at our disposal to support victim assistance, risk management, clearance of contaminated areas and destruction of stockpiles of cluster munitions. I look forward to the continuing collaboration of all parties in the Oireachtas in this endeavour.

Senator Maurice Cummins

I welcome the Minister to the House. I agree with Senator Norris with regard to the re-ordering of the business of the House. It is regrettable that as the proposer of the motion, he was not informed the Order of Business had been changed.

Cluster bombs are an abomination. They pose a particular risk to civilians and often to children because, as their name suggests, they leave large numbers of dangerous explosive devices spread across the landscape. They can remain live and dangerous for decades after they have been launched, killing not only the generation of people alive when the bomb is dropped but also their children and even their grandchildren.

The dangers of one cluster bomb can be seen in a simple statistic. The footprint of a single cluster bomb can be as large as a football pitch. In the words of Handicap International, which has campaigned against these weapons, "Ninety-eight percent of cluster submunitions casualties are civilians killed and injured while returning home in the aftermath of conflict or while going about their daily tasks to survive."

Its comments on the use of these weapons are blunt:

Despite a general lack of information on casualties both during and after strikes, it is clear unexploded cluster submunitions turn homes, livelihoods and social areas of almost 400 million people living in affected countries into de facto minefields. A total of 13,306 casualties due to cluster submunitions are confirmed. However, as 96% of casualties occur in countries where there is no or limited data collection, there are undoubtedly more casualties. In high-use locations, such as Iraq there were more than 1,000 casualties during strikes.

The fact that it is often people who have survived brutal conflicts and are returning home thinking they are safe who end up injured or killed by these weapons adds a particular horror to their use. In Kosovo, 53% of casualties occurred in the two months after the conflict. Most of the victims killed or maimed were boys aged between five and 15.

It is not only the age of the victims of these abominable weapons that is shocking. We see these weapons targeted specifically at the poor for it is often their farmlands which are littered with the bombs which, like landmines, are spread all over the place. However, the poor have no choice but to return to their farms and to try to live there, in the process spending every day worrying that when they plough the land, herd their cattle or travel to their homes they may step on an unexploded bomb left by the clustered explosion and lose an arm or leg or perhaps their lives. Every day they face the fear that their children may never come home from school, yet another victim of an unexploded remnant of a cluster bomb.

I quote again from Handicap International which has done major work to highlight the evil of cluster bombs.

The majority of victims are poor, uneducated males at work representing 76.8% of total confirmed casualties. Many of these are boys under the age of 18. In South Lebanon, nearly 90% of land used for farming and shepherding is contaminated with unexploded cluster submunitions.

Like many modern weapons, cluster munitions owe their origins to the Second World War when they were used indiscriminately. Remarkably, since the mid-1960s they seem to have been targeted against civilians in many areas. They are not merely a weapon to win wars. They are a weapon used to terrorise communities, to lay waste large tracts of land and to hit the poor in particular.

In Kosovo, cluster bombs were used by NATO without a deployment of NATO troops. In May 1995, the Croatian capital, Zagreb, was targeted deliberately by Serb forces with cluster bombs among other weapons. One Serb general made no secret of his tactics. He told the press that if the Croats launched an offensive, he would attack weak points. He stated with regard to Zagreb, "We know who the people in the parks are: civilians." One bomb fired contained 288 bomblets, each of which on explosion released 420 steel pellets, with a kill range of 10 metres. In other words, each rocket released 120,000 pellets, designed deliberately to kill people not only when the bomblets were released but indefinitely into the future.

In Vietnam, decades after the end of the Vietnam war, 300 people per year are still being killed by cluster bombs and landmines. People died for years after 1,400 cluster bombs were dropped in Kosovo. In 2000, the BBC reported the American cluster bombs, whether by accident or design, were visually appealing to children when they found them due to their bright yellow colour. However, in the BBC's words, "they contain an incendiary device — shrapnel — and armour piercing explosive that can pierce steel 25 cm thick".

This is why my party is passionately opposed to the use of cluster bombs. Defence can sometimes be necessary. However, creating weapons specifically to kill civilians — innocent men, women and children — for decades after a war is over can never be justified. One of the Council of Europe's goodwill ambassadors, human rights activist, Bianca Jagger, put the scandal in context:

The first proposals to ban cluster bombs were made in 1974. Since that time the weapons have been used in some 25 countries and, most worryingly, they are now in the arsenals of 70 states world-wide. Cluster bombs have already killed too many innocent civilians both during and after conflict.

The Minister referred to the Oslo declaration and the countries involved in it. It is a wonderful document and I am glad to hear from the Minister that other countries are becoming more actively involved in supporting the ending of the use of these dreadful weapons. I assure the Minister my party will do all in its power to bring an end to the horrors and the evil of cluster bombs.

We support this motion, just as we support the Dublin conference scheduled for May to push for a ban on the use of these weapons. In the name of the generations of dead children we could not save, we commit ourselves to ensuring in whatever way we can that no more children die at the hands of these abominable weapons. I commend the motion to the House.

Senator Dan Boyle

I will begin by apologising to Senator Norris. A presumption was made on the basis that this is an all-party motion, that the issue is current in the media and that a window became available in the Seanad schedule — a rare commodity in itself. If this presumption led to a lack of proper consultation with the instigator of the motion, I apologise.

Senator David Norris

The date is fine. However, it was shifted from 3.30 p.m. to 1 p.m. with no notice to any of the people participating and no consultation with the Whips despite what I was told. What I was told was not true.

Senator Dan Boyle

Sometimes this happens because of the early passage of business and it cannot be avoided.

On the motion, which is an all-party motion, the existence of the arms industry is morally suspect in itself. There is often a moral relativism in debating subjects of this nature. One of the ironies about the war in Iraq since 2003 is the pretext for beginning the war, namely, the belief in the existence of weapons of mass destruction, as though weapons which wreak less destruction are more morally acceptable. Most people on the planet would accept the morality of weapons is something we should strive to limit and prohibit wherever possible. The international debate, in which Ireland has participated, has concentrated on banning cluster munitions, the most pernicious, indiscriminate and most violent of weapons. This is a timely debate because it has been preceded by a media debate to which the Minister for Foreign Affairs has contributed.

Several articles in The Irish Times, the first by my friend and colleague, the former MEP for Leinster, Nuala Ahern, was followed by one today by the Minister. There was no real disagreement between the two articles. In her article Nuala Ahern went to great pains to stress the role the Minister has played in this debate and recognised the importance his party has given it. Whatever level of disagreement that existed between the two articles was only strategic in nature.

I am glad to note from the Minister's contribution that there will be further commitments to the introduction of legislation that will include a national ban on cluster bombs. This may seem like an act of moral relativism in that we do not produce cluster bombs but it is an important signal in helping to achieve international agreements of this nature.

If the forthcoming Dublin conference acts as the mechanism to bring about this agreement, Irish politics should be proud of the role the Minister and the Government have played and that should be applauded. As the Minister stated, it is a strong part of the programme for Government. As one who helped to negotiate the programme on behalf of the Green Party, I am pleased to see this provision has been included.

The Minister has highlighted the use of the Irish Aid programme to help the victims of cluster bombs as individuals and as members of their communities, which is laudable. However, dealing with the effects of the bombs after they have wreaked their havoc is not the best use of our aid programme. A possible success from the Dublin conference could be that the moneys from our aid programmes would be better directed.

On the argument whether legislation should be introduced before or after the Dublin conference, I accept what the Minister has said. It is standard practice that a convention is agreed upon, followed by legislation which has been accepted by several non-governmental organisations. One advantage to having legislation prior to a convention is that it might help inform agreement. It would put Ireland in a category with countries such as Austria, Belgium, Norway and Hungary.

Norway's position is interesting in several respects. One area in which we must ensure we are not compromised concerns our national investment programme. In the 29th Dáil I introduced a Private Members' Bill on ethical investment to require the National Pensions Reserve Fund to present to the Minister for Finance how ethical investment for the fund could be followed. It was not accepted at the time but the principles behind it need to be revisited. The United Nations' ethical guidelines on investment will not be sufficient as they are only guidelines and do not have the force of international law. I am encouraged the Minister has suggested there will be a prohibition on certain types of investment. A debate is needed at Cabinet level to enunciate those ethical investment principles further. I encourage the Minister to use the example of Norway in such discussions.

Norway has been a partner with Ireland in this process. The Dublin conference will build on the Oslo Declaration. Not only has Norway enacted legislation in banning cluster bomb production in its country, it has separate legislation regarding ethical funding guidelines for its national pension fund. I hope the Minister, with his Norwegian counterpart, will see how a common approach can be established. There is no dissension in the House on this issue. We must ensure there are no compromises in this area. The issue must be dealt with effectively, especially after the work done already in this area by the Minister and the Government.

Senator Dominic Hannigan

I welcome the Minister to the House and congratulate the Government on managing to deliver a Minister two hours earlier than planned. If only it could do the same with some transport projects, we would all be laughing.

Senator David Norris

Hear, hear.

Senator Dominic Hannigan

I commend the Independent Senators on tabling this motion. I commend the Government on supporting it subsequently and bringing the issue to the fore in advance of the conference on munitions in Dublin in May.

The motion reminds the Government of its commitment to legislate in this area. I read in The Irish Times recently that the Government will delegate responsibility on munitions to a new committee on humanitarian law to be established by the Department of Foreign Affairs. Austria, Belgium, Hungary and Norway have enacted legislation on this matter. I hope this proposed committee ensures comprehensive, tight and timely legislation on cluster munitions is introduced. I would hate to see the advent of the committee leading to further delays.

Cluster munitions are an urgent matter requiring international action. Cluster bombs are the most indiscriminate of all conventional bombs. The affected area of one cluster bomb can be as wide as the combined area of three football fields. A cluster bomb used on a military target will not just affect military personnel and installations. It can lead to horrible deaths and injuries to innocent civilians in non-military areas.

These munitions often fail to explode on impact. The ordnance becomes less of a bomb and more a landmine. It is estimated that after the 2006 conflict between Israel and Lebanon, 1 million unexploded bombs remain in the conflict zone waiting to injure and kill people long into the future.

When in Vietnam I visited the former US base, Khe Sanh, beside the Ho Chi Minh trail which had come under attack during the Tet Offensive. When abandoning Khe Sanh, the Americans decided to bomb the Viet Cong into submission. As a result, the surrounding area is covered in unexploded ordnance. Every year innocent civilians are maimed and killed by these unexploded munitions.

Of the 13,000 cluster bomb casualties recorded by one international group, 98% are civilians. I am glad the motion has been tabled and that serious clauses in it have not been amended. It insists that any legislation on the matter will make it impossible for cluster munitions or materials for them to be produced in Ireland. It also demands legislation should assist victims of cluster munitions. Funds must be dedicated not just to the clearance of these unexploded munitions but to the rehabilitation of people who have been maimed by them.

Countries such as Ireland can act as a leading voice in working with other European countries to help ban cluster munitions. We must ensure Ireland is not a passive opponent of cluster munitions but an active campaigner for their removal and the mitigation of their effects. If Ireland is an active campaigner it will demonstrate that the Government is walking the walk as well as talking the talk. By doing this we can help to motivate other European countries to action and, it is to be hoped, embarrass some European countries into turning away from their current courses of action in the production of cluster munitions. This motion ensures that any legislation that eventually arises will include action and international leadership by Ireland. In this way we can aid the victims of cluster bombs and increase support for clearance of contaminated land.

I support the motion, as does my party. I encourage the Government to act quickly, take the motion seriously and legislate strongly against the evil of cluster munitions.

Senator Ann Ormonde

I understand why Senator Norris was upset at the change of time. I too was following the agenda as I had read it this morning, but then I was hauled out of the Forum on Europe to come over here. It confuses me when I suddenly have to rush to be here, but I did want to speak on this issue.

I thank the Minister for coming to the Seanad to discuss this very important issue. We as a party placed in the party manifesto for last year's general election a clear commitment to ban cluster munitions. That commitment was repeated in the programme for Government and forms the basis of a Government policy which is among the most progressive in the world. We are at the vanguard of international efforts to rid the planet of these horrible weapons. After his return from south Lebanon, I spoke to the Minister, Deputy Dermot Ahern, and he told me that he saw this as a personal crusade, that he had seen at first hand the awful effects of these bombs on the civilian population of Lebanon, and that Ireland would lead the way in this area. Out of that came the commitment in our party manifesto and in the programme for Government.

In the weeks ahead, Ireland will host a major diplomatic conference on cluster munitions. The conference will complete negotiations on the first ever instrument of international humanitarian law specifically directed against cluster munitions. At the Minister's direction, a national committee on humanitarian law will shortly prepare comprehensive legislation on cluster bombs. This is a national issue and we should not divide on it. For this reason, I am happy this is a cross-party motion with all our support.

I note the announcement by Ireland of a total legislative ban on cluster munitions at the Oslo process in February 2008. This will add further dynamism to and accelerate the process towards a comprehensive ban. In preparing the legislation, we must not forget that the key to this is the victims. We must provide for clearance of areas contaminated by these awful bombs. We must stand by the victims to ban these bombs and landmines forever so that children can run free in the fields and go to school, and parents can till their land and draw water from wells without fear of being blown up by a cluster bomb. I hope in the draft legislation we provide support for education on the risks of cluster bombs, cater for the rehabilitation and medical care of survivors, provide psychological support and assist with social and economic inclusion.

I encourage co-ordination between the governments of the concerned states and relevant governmental and non-governmental organisations in the implementation of the programme. Ireland must become a trend-setter and assist other states in their preparation of this legislation. Ireland is a small country but it is effective and we have a big heart. It is time we led by example and demonstrated the skill and commitment to enact a unilateral ban to make our world free of cluster munitions. I hope the text will be sufficiently comprehensive in its prohibition and will satisfy the expectations of civil society and those affected by cluster munitions. I wish the Minister well in hosting the convention in May and I hope he will take the lead in pushing for a total ban on these awful weapons, as we have outlined in the House today.

Senator John Hanafin

I am pleased to support the motion. The use of cluster bombs is quite obscene in terms of the havoc they can wreak. Cluster bombs are designed to be sprayed over a wide area. The principle is simple: a large container is filled with small bomblets, the container opens, and the munitions are scattered over a broad area, creating a blanket of explosions which can cover several hectares. In fact, this type of munition is a permanent threat to a civilian population and a violation of international and humanitarian law.

Ireland is well placed to hold the convention and to take a lead on this. Ireland is one of the countries that spends very little on armaments. Its economic and social development and its position on the human development index have risen consistently. We may compare this with states that spend huge percentages of their gross domestic product on armaments. Many of these are very poor countries that can least afford to spend anything on weaponry. Even our nearest neighbours spend up to 3% of GDP on armaments. Over the past 20 years this has amounted to a significant cumulative total being spent on an industry that is of no further benefit to the community. I suggest the reason Ireland is high on the human development index and is among the best countries in the world in which to live, according to The Economist, is that we have consistently gone on the right path. This is shown today in the fact that there is cross-party support for banning particular types of munitions.

What concerns me is that even if we ban cluster bombs, the industry will come up with something else equally or more devastating. In the future I would like to see Ireland take the lead — and the Minister is the man to do this — in encouraging all countries to focus on military spending that is used exclusively for peacekeeping purposes. I know it is a big thing to ask. A total of €1.2 trillion was spent in 2006 on armaments. If we consider what could have been done with this money in terms of education, provision of food and helping those states that are most in need of help in terms of health, we can see that we have missed some wonderful opportunities, yet this amount was spent on armaments. In many cases it is a race to ensure a nation's neighbour does not have more tanks or armaments than the nation that is buying them or to maintain an equivalent level of destruction.

I have been thinking about something that happened in the 1980s which certainly educated me. My father said he had spoken to a banker who had told him that the next war would be between Iran and Iraq. I was fascinated by this because there was no indication at that stage of a deterioration in relations. There was nothing in the media to indicate that this would happen. However, the banker was quite adamant. He insisted he had seen the amounts being spent and the armaments that were being procured, not for defensive purposes but for assault purposes. Before 1 million people died in that war, which is now almost forgotten, the bankers knew it would happen from the large transfer of funds.

I have difficulty with this industry. For that reason, I believe Ireland has a role to play. It played a significant role in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, which stands to this day. We spend on armaments for defensive purposes, for example, for our troops in Chad and for the proper tasks Ireland has carried out during its proud record in the United Nations. However, there are permanent risks with certain types of munitions, particularly those being discussed today. Civilians who live and work in affected areas run the risk of being killed by cluster bombs. Between 5% and 40% of cluster munitions do not explode on impact and remain intact on the ground, in trees or on roofs. They become de facto anti-personnel landmines, waiting for the slightest movement to explode. They create a lethal danger for the civilian population who encounter them in the course of farm work, deforestation, building and so forth. Children are especially at risk as they are attracted by the bright colours of certain cluster munitions. For those who are killed or maimed, sometimes years after the end of a conflict, there is no difference between an anti-personnel landmine and unexploded cluster munitions.

A further reason for banning cluster munitions is that they are a violation of international and humanitarian law. Cluster bombs violate the principle of international humanitarian law and make no distinction between civilian and military targets. Despite this fact and the ban on landmines, cluster bombs are still widely used. Several million cluster munitions have been dropped. It costs approximately $1 to produce a cluster bomb but it costs $1,000 to remove it. These figures are important when discussing developing countries or countries emerging from conflict. The use of cluster bombs is one of the most indiscriminate and inhumane methods of fighting a war. It represents war on the civilian population and the innocent.

I recall a young child being hospitalised in Pristina for the amputation of both legs. He had been playing with a cluster bomb. The children found the bomb and put it down a well. It did not explode so they continued to play with it. One day they took the bomb out of the well. The child's 14 year old friend was killed in the explosion while the child had both legs amputated. That is cruel and unjust. In Africa, one will hear children ask one if their arms will grow again. That is the innocence of the people who are suffering. However, the munitions manufacturers and the bankers continue to have the inside track.

Senator David Norris

I am glad the Leader of the House is present because I feel very strongly about the disgraceful way the business was re-ordered in the House. It is not true that the Whips of all the parties knew about it or were consulted. Mine was not and the Fine Gael speaker had no knowledge of it. The first speaker from Fianna Fáil was hauled out of the Forum on Europe. That is not the way to do business. I am sorry to have to say it because the Leader and I get on well. I attended the discussion on the Order of Business. I had to leave to make an urgent telephone call to the foreign affairs committee's delegation in Palestine. I then had to attend a briefing on landmines, which was perfectly legitimate business. It had to be aborted and I was obliged to drive back through the traffic to get to the Chamber in time. I wish to register that protest.

I thank all speakers for their contributions. I absolutely accept the Minister's credentials; I know this issue is close to his heart. All speakers spoke eloquently, passionately and well, and showed a commitment that does honour to this country. I also pay tribute to Tony D'Costa from Pax Christi, who appeared before the foreign affairs committee, and Joe Murray from Afri, who also did so and briefed us on this matter. I am pleased the Minister is opening discussions with the Minister for Finance. There is still a long way to go. I recall bringing a young lobbyist to meet the then Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Conor Lenihan, to discuss ethical guidelines for the national pensions fund.

I can give the Minister the further information I have received about this, the so-called "Dossier of Shame". It lists money invested in the arms trade, against which Senator Hanafin spoke so eloquently, by national pension funds on behalf of the pensioners of the State. The amounts are so piddling, they could easily be divested. Boeing, USA, produces aircraft, electronics, missiles and space technology and maintains and upgrades the US Air Force's Minuteman III intercontinental ballistic missile or the main element of its land based strategic nuclear weapons. The value of Irish pension fund shares in the company is €18,871,586. Northrop Grumman, USA, produces aircraft, electronics, missiles, military ships and space technology and is a contractor for the upkeep and upgrading of the US force's main land based strategic nuclear weapons, including the Minuteman III. The value of Irish shares in the company is €2.5 million. Lockheed Martin, USA, produces aircraft, electronics, missiles, cluster bombs and space technology. The value of Irish shares in the company is €17,124,321.

BAE Systems, UK, produces artillery, aircraft, electronics, military vehicles, small arms, ammunition and so forth and the value of Irish shares in the company is €14,543,571. Raytheon, USA has a plant in Derry that was picketed some time ago, and Irish people were sent to jail for it. This firm is on our land mass. It should be divested of the Irish shares valued at €12,392,445. General Dynamics, USA, also manufactures cluster bombs and the value of Irish shares in the company is €12.75 million. In Finmeccanica, Italy, the value of Irish shares is €9,680,000. EADS of the Netherlands also manufactures cluster bombs and the value of the Irish shareholding is €19,488,139. L-3 Communications, USA, manufactures cluster bombs and the value of the Irish shareholding is €692,916 while the Irish shares in Thales, France, is €6,636,000. All these shareholdings amount to a total of approximately €60 million which could easily be divested. I urge the Minister to try to persuade his colleague to do so.

I, too, have experience with these munitions. A family known to Ezra and me was collecting scrap and picked up some of these weapons. One fellow, who was lucky, was killed instantly, another was blinded, another had his stomach blown up and the fourth, who was 17, had both hands blown off. We tried to raise money to get him prosthetic arms so he could at least make an effort to survive. However, we got a telephone call a month later to tell us he had died of delayed shock. It suddenly hit him that he had no hands simply as a result of collecting scrap.

We need a clear commitment to a timescale for the legislation. The Minister has heard some doubts expressed, although not malicious ones, that this exercise might be put on the long finger. I do not believe it will be and I sincerely hope not. I congratulate my colleagues who spoke so eloquently, despite all of us suffering as a result of the short notice. It is a good day for the Seanad to have this motion passed on an all-party basis. That is the way these humanitarian issues should be handled. I thank the Minister for being present until the end of the debate.

Question put and agreed to.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

When is it proposed to sit again?

Senator Donie Cassidy

At 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 11 March 2008.