Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 12 Jan 2012

Vol. 212 No. 10

Adjournment Matters

Community Employment Schemes

Senator David Cullinane

I welcome the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton. We had a short discussion on this issue in the context of the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill last year but I tabled this matter on the Adjournment to discuss the impact of the community employment scheme cuts and specifically the impact the cut in the material and training allowance will have on a number of community employment schemes in Waterford.

As the Minister is aware, there has been a 66% cut to the material and training allowance for each course participant. That has an impact on the ability of some of the schemes to deliver services. These schemes depend on this money to pay for training, insurance, rent, equipment, tools, telephone and everything other than wages. It goes towards paying for how the course operates and ensures participants get the training and education they need. It is vital that training facilitates genuine pathways from training and education in these courses into employment. The ultimate goal of community employment schemes is to get people back to work. If the schemes are unable to provide the training and education people need, it will seriously curtail the ability of many course participants to get back into employment.

This cut also poses a potential threat to the ability of a number of existing schemes to continue to function. If they cannot provide the funding for insurance, rent or equipment, for example, how will they function and from where will the money come? I can offer the Minister two examples from Waterford city. One is the Saor programme which has 18 community employment scheme workers, ten in Waterford city and eight in Clonmel. It provides training, upskilling and educational opportunities for people who are recovering from substance misuse. It does a great deal of good work in the community, linking with drugs awareness and community-based drug projects. The programme's grant for each of the participants will be reduced for €1,500 to €500. The supervisors tell me it will be very hard for them to continue to provide the service this year.

The Compact community scheme in Waterford city operates from Lady Lane House. It has 19 community employment scheme workers and provides meals-on-wheels, maintenance work for people who live in sheltered housing and in housing for older people and caretaking work in the community. The scheme is sponsored by the Simon Community and Enable Ireland. The scheme will find it difficult to continue the same level of service this year if these cuts are implemented.

The Minister is aware of this issue and I accept that she has called for a review to assess the impact these cuts will have on the operation of each community employment scheme. I have given her two examples from Waterford city but I am sure she has been given other examples from throughout the country. I hope that, as with the issue of DEIS schools, we will not simply see a review but a complete reversal of the cuts. When one considers that we have massive unemployment, with 445,000 people out of work, and that it is very difficult for people to get into employment in the first place, these schemes are a bridge for many people who have no wish to be unemployed and doing nothing. They want to be able to do something and to contribute.

The Minister will also be aware of what will happen if some of these community employment schemes are unable to provide services such as caretaking, child care, meals on wheels and so forth in the community. Somebody else will have to provide them and potentially at a greater cost to the State. I contend that it makes economic sense and certainly social sense for the Minister to review and, ultimately, reverse this cut and to ensure that every community employment scheme in the country is able to continue. My party advocates that we build on the success of the community employment schemes and ensure we have a greater number of people on the schemes and greater opportunities for people who, unfortunately, because of the jobs crisis in this country, are not able to gain full-time or even part-time employment.

Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Joan Burton)

I am delighted the Senator has raised this very important issue. Community employment schemes make a very important and valued contribution to social employment, training and progression for unemployed people. Furthermore, many community employment schemes provide vital community services not only in Waterford but throughout the country.

There are 1,143 community employment schemes in operation nationally with 23,300 participants. The overall estimated budget stands at €315 million for 2012. In my constituency, for example, I am very familiar with the great work done by the Centre for Independent Living and by Blanchardstown community employment scheme.

As the Senator is aware, the Department of Social Protection has recently taken over full responsibility for community employment schemes as the previous FÁS employment services division joined the Department of Social Protection with effect from 1 January. I am delighted to have responsibility for these schemes which, like the Senator, I have a lot of personal experience of and which play such an important role in our communities, in particular by providing services which have of intrinsic social value like helping the disabled to live independently, like the example used by the Senator of Compact in Waterford city and like delivering meals on wheels, in particular to our older citizens.

This point that tends to get lost in some of the purely economic analysis of community employment schemes which views them as not delivering sufficient progression into the labour market. While it is true that many community employment schemes need to improve the manner in which they provide labour activation services, there will always be a role for schemes that are primarily directed towards the provision of crucial social services, often for disadvantaged communities which are in dire need of services like child care, elderly care and drug treatment programmes. The intrinsic social value of these schemes is not captured by conventional economic models but this is more a failing of conventional economics than of the schemes themselves. The IMF should please take note.

As Minister for Social Protection, I am determined to ensure that the contribution of such schemes is recognised in any future decisions on the future operation, funding and role of community employment. Given that this area was coming over to the Department of Social Protection for the first time, I asked for an initial review of the financial resources of all schemes to be completed in March 2012. As I said, there is a total spend on this area of €315 million. Standard templates have been developed and issued to the employment officers involved. These are the former FÁS staff who are now employment officers and civil servants in my Department. The review will be carried out between local community employment sponsors and the departmental employment officer responsible for the scheme under local management.

The discussion that will be undertaken with schemes will be conducted in a constructive manner and all support possible will be provided to help the schemes to remain viable. As I speak, employment officers are making initial contact with schemes. In addition to these local discussions, discussion and consultation with the main representative bodies and stakeholders involved in schemes will take place in the coming weeks in regard to funding.

Separately, the former FÁS research unit has been asked to complete a strategic value for money review of a number of schemes administered by the Department. Community employment will be reviewed as part of this exercise. The outcome of this review will guide future policy development and is also expected to be completed by the end of March.

I am also planning a stakeholder consultation event in order that I can better understand the role that community employment schemes play throughout the country and obtain the views and feedback of scheme sponsors, supervisors and participants.

The outcome of these reviews will inform the overall approach to be taken by my Department in regard to how to secure the best outcomes for the schemes and their participants, taking account of the large amount of money we spend on community employment schemes and the valuable contribution that many of them make to their communities.

The purpose of the reviews is to examine the income and funding of sponsoring organisations in terms of their ability to continue deliver the programme. It is also being carried out in the context that there are community and voluntary sponsoring organisations that receive funding from a multiplicity of State agencies. Alternative sources of support will be examined, particularly with reference to funding from other State agencies to avoid duplication. The review will also seek to establish if income is generated by scheme activity and the potential for utilisation of these funds to cover project costs.

This is a listening Government and I have been listening carefully to the concerns raised by the community and voluntary sector about the impact that changes to the training and material grant could have on community employment schemes pending the outcome of the review. Following on from changes to the training and materials grant for community employment schemes announced in budget 2012, I made a commitment that no community employment scheme would close pending the completion of this review.

Let me be very clear about this. In the event that the changes in the training and material grant announced in the budget create financial difficulties for schemes, my Department will continue to provide funding for those schemes. In this context, I want to confirm that the funding is available in my Department to make this commitment a reality.

I would like to stress also that community employment participants can continue to avail of education and training programmes that are available to them free of charge from existing State-funded providers. This facility will also form part of the arrangements that will be developed as part of the establishment of SOLAS under the Department of Education and Skills. It was formerly the education and training wing of FÁS, which is now gone.

Senator David Cullinane

I welcome the stakeholder consultation review and the fact the sponsors, participants and supervisors will form part of it. I also welcome the commitment that no scheme will close but there is a fear that some schemes may have to curtail their services. I am not all that hung up on where the money comes from to ensure schemes can operate, whether support from the Minister's Department or through the grant which courses were getting for each participant, but I want to ensure that those schemes which are in operation and provide the services, about which the Minister and I spoke, continue in communities. I hope the outcome of the review, about which the Minister spoke, will lend itself to that and we will see not only continued but improved services from community employment schemes in the State.

Deputy Joan Burton

As I said, the former FÁS employment officials joined the Department on 1 January. They started work as civil servants in the Department of Social Protection last Wednesday. We are in a new era and I believe it is an era of opportunity, even though as the Senator is aware, the financial constraints are very difficult. This is an opportunity to do something very positive in regard to community employment.

As I said, there are three things in which I am particularly interested: the service being delivered, about which the Senator spoke; the quality of the experience the person participating in the scheme gets; and value for money because there is no point pretending that money is not very tight.

Community employment makes a valuable contribution. I recognise that, as does the Government which has affirmed it. It is a new era and a new Department but it would be remiss of me, in taking on such a large budget, the approximately 700 staff who formerly worked in FÁS and 1,100 community employment schemes, not to use the opportunity to examine what community, social and public assets the Department is acquiring and how we can best use the service capacity and so forth available to us to create a good experience for those who join community employment schemes.

Since my appointment in March 2011, I have got two schemes off the ground. More than 3,500 people have joined JobBridge and more than 2,000 are participating in Tús. As a result, more than 5,000 people have obtained, in the main, good opportunities and the feedback from the schemes has been good.

As I stated, there are 23,000 people participating in community employment schemes. My objective, given the terrible level of unemployment, is to reform the system in a manner that increases numbers and gives more people a good experience, while maintaining the vital services which, as the Senator noted, form a key element of community employment.

Hospital Services

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

The issue I raise is community hospitals, specifically Lifford Community Hospital in my locality. Built in 1789, the hospital is old but effective and efficient. It has 20 patients and a capacity to accommodate 40 patients. Most of those who stay in the hospital are elderly. The reduction in patient numbers in recent years arose from the implementation of HIQA standards which include the provision of patient care in one and two bedroom units as opposed to the previous system of wards. HIQA officials visited Lifford Community Hospital and produced a report showing that the facility met all standards. The hospital received the best report of all community hospitals on which HIQA reported in County Donegal.

Before Christmas I attended a public meeting on Lifford Community Hospital attended by up to 1,000 members of the local community. This was a massive, unified show of support by the local community for retention of the community hospital. County Donegal has 11 public community hospitals run by the Health Service Executive, all of which face difficulties for a variety of reasons. While HIQA standards present a problem, staffing problems are causing greater difficulties. The moratorium on recruitment in the HSE and other public bodies has resulted in the closure of beds in many community hospitals. Staffing reductions and declining resources mean the community hospital network in County Donegal is operating at only approximately 70% capacity. One often hears the Minister for Health state it is not cost efficient for the State to have people staying in public hospitals. However, comparing the cost of a private bed with that of a bed in a community hospital that is operating at 70% capacity is not comparing like with like. I invite the Minister, Deputy Reilly, or the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, to visit some of the community hospitals in County Donegal, including Lifford Community Hospital, to see at first hand the invaluable care being provided by health care professionals for local people. It is incorrect to claim the care provided in a community hospital is not efficient and I challenge the Minister in that regard, particularly in light of the position in County Donegal.

Community hospitals must be upgraded. HIQA standards are setting the bar in that respect. Anecdotal information from HSE officials suggest the overall cost of upgrading all 11 community hospitals in County Donegal to meet the new HIQA standards would be approximately €40 million. While this is a substantial sum, capital investment in community nursing homes would be money well spent. The State must be judged on the basis of how it deals with its elderly population. If we choose not to provide publicly funded community nursing units for the elderly by withdrawing services, it will be a step too far.

On decision making, the HSE is carrying out a review of community nursing units. I understand the exercise commenced at local level and is feeding into a national review. The findings will be submitted to the Minister for Health who will make the final decision on closing community nursing units. My message to the Government is to keep its hands off Lifford Community Hospital and other community hospitals in County Donegal. The hospitals in question are operating at only 70% capacity. People require the services they provide, especially in County Donegal which has one of the highest populations of people aged over 65 years in the country. Elderly people require public nursing units or, if they so wish, private units.

I am sure this issue has been examined in the HSE. Does the Department have a table prepared on the cost of upgrading all public nursing units in the country? Will capital expenditure be found to invest in these units? Upgrading them could act as an economic stimulus, not to speak of the benefits such facilities provide for elderly populations and local communities. I hope the Minister of State has some good news for me on Lifford Community Hospital.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kathleen Lynch)

I thank the Senator for raising this issue as it provides me with an opportunity to update the House on this matter and outline the background to the current position and the action taken by the Health Service Executive.

Government policy on older people is to support people to live in dignity and independence in their own homes and communities for as long as possible. Where this is not feasible, the health service supports access to quality long-term residential care where this is appropriate. We continue to develop and improve health services in all regions to ensure quality and patient safety. The Health Service Executive has sole operational responsibility for the delivery of health and personal social services, including those at facilities such as Lifford Community Hospital, County Donegal.

Lifford Community Hospital is one of 11 community hospitals in County Donegal. Established in 1799, the hospital has 20 beds, 11 of which are for long-term residents while the remainder provide convalescent, step-down and intermediate care for patients discharged from Letterkenny General Hospital. Both the moratorium on recruitment and compliance with national quality standards are impacting on the community hospital system in County Donegal. These pressures are mirrored across the country and are well documented.

I acknowledge there is considerable concern about the future of our community nursing units. There is no doubt we are facing challenges in this sector due to staffing, funding and the age and structure of existing units. However, I confirm that no decision will be made to close a public nursing home without a full consultation having taken place with all stakeholders. It is clear that on a business as usual basis, the Health Service Executive would have to close further beds across a range of public community nursing units in 2012. In the absence of reform, this would increase the cost of caring for older persons within the public system. Consequently, this would undermine the viability of public community nursing units and reduce the overall number of older persons that can be supported within the budget available for the fair deal scheme. This is not a sustainable way forward and would not meet the needs of older persons, local communities, the taxpayer or those working in the public service. Instead, we need a more proactive approach to the provision of community nursing home units which seeks to protect the viability of as many units as possible within the funding and staffing resources available. This includes smaller units where challenges of scale may require more innovative approaches to service delivery. This is likely to require a combination of actions such as consolidation of services and changes in staffing, skill mix and work practices. Consequently this will require consideration of the different types of services required — such as long-stay and transitional — and the respective strengths of public and private community nursing units in that regard, the public and private capacity available within an area, the age and structure of public units, the wider needs of the local community and alternative options for providing a viable community nursing service, including a possible role for local communities or other voluntary providers. The HSE is already examining issues in this regard and will be working closely with the Department to develop an overall set of proposals for consideration. All developments have to be addressed in light of the current economic and budgetary pressures and any decisions taken by the HSE must have regard to this and the current moratorium. I trust the House will agree that we need to ensure that the highest standard of care will continue to be provided for all residents in a safe and secure environment. Providing quality and safe care will always remain at the heart of any considerations.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

I thank the Minister of State for her reply. She said she could confirm that no decision will be made to close a public nursing home without a full consultation having taken place with all stakeholders. I understand that has come about as a result of the court case taken by the elderly people in Abbeyleix where the High Court ruled that before a nursing home would be closed there would have to be wider consultation. Will the Minster of State advise as to what that consultation means? Will it mean contacting every individual within the catchment area because everyone will be old at some stage and may avail of the local community hospital?

I hate to see words such as "viable community nursing services". Unfortunately, everything has to be viable. The elderly who worked hard, paid their taxes and did all the right things in the past and whether it is viable they require a home if they cannot live in their own home. While home care packages are available there are people who cannot live at home, even with that care and attention. Those people should not be judged on viability, even though there is a cost implication for the State.

An Cathaoirleach

Does the Senator have a question for the Minister of State?

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

There should be some other way of dealing with the issue. Where a nursing home is working efficiently and HIQA is satisfied it is meeting the required standards, pristine condition, providing great health care for the patients, that nursing home should not be on the agenda for closure. I appeal to the Minister of State to take those factors into consideration.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

On the issue of consultation, not every single person in the greater community will be contacted. That would be impossible and would be so time consuming that one would never get a result.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

That is good.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

When it comes to consulting all stakeholders, those who live in the home, their family, the GP and the nursing staff in the community must be consulted. Irrespective of a court case, that is the approach that should be taken because one is intruding into people's lives. I am not certain that units of 50 beds must be the criteria. That is not where we should be going.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

No.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

Viability is key and there would be variations. One has to consider various skill mixes for people who are frail and incapacitated but not sick. Most people in community nursing homes are in that category. They do not need intensive medical nursing care but supervised living. Changing of the skill mix will make most of those units viable and enable us get around the moratorium. There will have to be a change of thinking in how they deal with us.

Schools Building Projects

Senator Thomas Byrne

I thank the Cathaoirleach for allowing me to raise this issue. I wish him, the staff and the Minister of State a happy new year, especially to the Minister of State in her important role and all the battles she will face.

I am grateful for the opportunity to raise the issue of Eureka secondary school in Kells, County Meath. The community of Kells have waited a long time for the construction of a new school and are eager to have it completed as soon as possible. There is a great deal of controversy and many complications concerning the school not with the Government but the local authority which has delayed progression of the school.

However, I ask the Government to follow on from the announcement made last year by the previous Government and allow the school to proceed to architectural planning and construction at an early stage. There has been speculation at recent meetings of Kells Town Council and Meath County Council that the school would be part of the next tranche of schools to be progressed by the Department of Education and Skills. This would be a positive development for the community and the prospective students of one of the best secondary schools in the north east.

I recall an LMFM schools quiz and being defeated by Eureka secondary school in Kells. It has a great record in a number of academic areas, including the Young Scientist competition.

If this school project is not to be progressed, it will be a matter of grave concern to the people. Despite heated debate in Kells in regard to the issue, which was not the responsibility of the Government, the new building for Eureka secondary school has progressed significantly but any slowdown in its provision will be opposed by me, my party and local residents.

I ask the Minister of State to confirm the school's current position in the overall programme, what stage it is at and what priority is being attached to it by the Government. Clarity for the people and young women of Kells is a necessity. I urge the Minister of State to respond to these questions as fully as possible.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I am taking this Adjournment matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn. I thank the Senator for raising it as it provides me with the opportunity to clarify the current position on the application for a new school for Eureka secondary school, Kells, County Meath.

The Senator will be aware that a major project for the school was included in the list of projects in the work programme for 2011 where school accommodation project briefs were to be formulated and the process of appointing a design team was to commence. In the context of that announcement, the Department acquired a site of about 11.5 acres in Kells under the terms of the redress scheme for the new school.

The architectural planning process was progressed during 2011 and a schedule of accommodation prepared on the basis of a long-term enrolment of 750 pupils. The school authority subsequently wrote to the Department requesting that the long-term enrolment be increased to 800 pupils. The Department considered the request and agreed to this revision. This warranted the completion of a revised educational worksheet by the school. The project can be progressed further and a revised schedule of accommodation can be drawn up as soon as this information is provided by the school.

The current status of all projects in the school building programme, including this project, may be viewed on the Department's website at www.education.ie which will be updated regularly throughout the year.

The Senator will be aware that the Government's medium-term infrastructure and capital investment framework which was published on 10 November 2011 sets out the demographic challenge facing the education system in the coming years. Given the need to ensure every child has access to a school place, the delivery of major school projects and smaller projects devolved to schools to meet the demographic demands nationally, as well as the demands in Kells, will be the main focus for capital investment in schools in the coming years. The Minister has previously committed to publishing shortly a five-year plan outlining the school building projects to be constructed in that time.

I thank the Senator again for giving me the opportunity to outline the current position to the House.

Senator Thomas Byrne

I thank the Minister of State because that response is as positive as it can be. I am grateful for that information. The people of Kells will look forward to work progressing. There does not appear to be any "if" or "but" in her response.

The Seanad adjourned at 2.40 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 18 January 2012.