The Order of Business is No. 1, Motor Vehicles (Duties and Licences) Bill 2012 — all Stages, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and conclude not later than 6 p.m., with the contributions of spokespersons on Second Stage not to exceed eight minutes and those of all other Senators not to exceed five minutes, the Minister to be given ten minutes to reply to the debate at the end of Second Stage, and Committee and Remaining Stages to taken immediately afterwards.
Order of Business
On a point of principle, I oppose taking all Stages of the Motor Vehicles (Duties and Licences) Bill 2012 today. It is a significant sleight of hand by the Government, as this is the first increase in motor tax duties since 2008 and undoes the vast majority of the work undertaken to reduce motor tax duties on low-emission cars. The Bill provides for significant tax increases in the case of CO2-branded vehicles of between 44% and 54%. It also provides for increases in the case of all other motor vehicles, in the process raising approximately €46.5 million. This is a significant departure and will pave the way for the Government to return to motor tax being paid on the basis of engine size as opposed to emissions, as had been mooted. I raised the matter with the Minister for Finance last week. I do not see the necessity for the Bill to be brought through all Stages in one day. I, therefore, ask the Leader to take Second Stage today and allow space between Committee and Remaining Stages in the following two days.
The household charge has been discussed in the Chamber in which it has been raised on the Order of Business on many occasions. What the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Joan Burton, said on radio yesterday was sensible. It is what we have been calling for. We should make it easier, rather than more difficult, for those who wish to pay this household tax. Nonetheless, there are conflicting messages coming from Ministers. Yesterday, the Minister, Deputy Joan Burton, said arrangements were being made to allow for payment of the charge to be made through the post office network. I raised that matter in the House last week. It is a good idea and should be pursued because there are 1,100 post offices located around the country. The fact that post offices cannot accept the payment and no provision has been made to allow for such payments to be made through them is making the situation much more difficult. Looking at the figures, just under 370,000 people have now paid the charge, which is just over 20% of the total. No one can foresee a situation where anything close to 70% or 80% of households will have paid the charge by the deadline of 31 March which is this Saturday. Therefore, the Government needs to be reasonable and realise that the manner in which it is going about collecting the charge is not working. The deadline should be extended, in addition to allowing easier access for those who wish to pay the household tax.
The Fianna Fáil group welcomes the publication of the Mahon tribunal report and fully accepts its findings. We fully support our leader, Deputy Micheál Martin, in the swift and decisive steps he has taken. As we discussed last week, at the appropriate stage, sufficient time should be made available to debate the matter in this House. I suggest a full day be set aside for such a debate, when business permits us to do so. In that way, everyone will be given an opportunity to examine fully what is a very detailed, serious and important report which should be dealt with. The Dáil will debate this matter for three days this week. It is appropriate that we see the responses given in the Dáil before further discussion takes place in this House. The Leader will receive full support from my own group. When does he propose to allow that debate to take place and can we have a detailed debate with sufficient time given to it?
I ask the Leader to allow more time for the Motor Vehicle (Duties and Licences) Bill 2012 and not to take all Stages today. If all Stages are taken today we will be obliged to oppose the Order of Business.
I agree with Senator O'Brien on the need for a debate on the Mahon tribunal report. All of us would appreciate generous time being spent debating the findings of the tribunal which we are all still absorbing. The report made some substantive findings and some very substantive recommendations which will require legislation if they are to be put into law. We need to debate how we do that, the merits of the recommendations and the comprehensive reform they propose to our planning and political donations law. That would be well worth debating.
The debate would also have to address the widespread web of knowledge that went along with and supported the culture of systemic and endemic corruption that the tribunal found. That is something that requires a broader level of debate because it encompasses more people than those named in the tribunal report. That is something we must also address.
I call for a debate on crime in the context of yesterday's media reports that Mr. Stephen Collins and his very brave family, who had co-operated with police and prosecuting authorities and paid a heavy price for that, have left Ireland following arrangements being made with the Garda and the State. We must feel a collective sense of outrage that this brave and honourable family were forced to leave due to the threats, intimidation and outrageous violence they experienced at the hands of criminal gangs in Limerick over a period of years, the worst point being the death of their son, Roy. They endured a wide level of systemic intimidation over a long period. They were subject to 24 hour Garda surveillance and monitoring because of the threats they were under. It is a matter of shame that they were forced to leave Ireland. I am glad the Minister, Deputy Shatter, expressed the level of support the State gave them in leaving Limerick and making arrangements for them to go abroad. However, this underlines the need for substantive measures to be put in place to assist and support victims and witnesses of crime who are prepared to give evidence and support the criminal process to ensure criminals are put behind bars. Without their evidence and co-operation the criminal justice system could not survive. We all owe a debt to the Collins family. I pay a tribute to them and express outrage that they were forced to leave the country.
I support my colleagues in seeking a proper debate on the report of the Mahon tribunal. It is significant that the first call came from this side of the House. I hope this matter will be pursued as a matter of principle rather than personality, because it is principles, after all, that are involved. Regrettably, there is scarcely a party that is not tainted by this corruption, which is very surprising. We owe a debt of gratitude to Mr. Michael Smith and Mr. Colm Ó hEochaidh, who initiated this. It was not as a result of investigative reporting but of the initiative of two private citizens that this came about.
Last week I was the first speaker from my group and I raised a situation in the Netherlands in the 1950s when 12 teenage boys were castrated on the instruction of the authorities in a Catholic home and with the collaboration of the state. The first was a 16 year old boy who was castrated because he reported sexual abuse to the police. I very much regret that not one single Senator, with the honourable exception of the Leader of the House, Senator Maurice Cummins, made even a glancing reference to this shocking fact. It was said to me, "Well, it was 50 years ago." Time does not delete the appalling nature of the outrage at Auschwitz not much more than 50 years ago, nor should it detract from the source of the prejudice which is very clear to all of us.
I agree with Senator Darragh O'Brien on the question of motor taxation. It would be a pity and out of character for the Leader to rush all Stages of the Bill through. The whole notion of the Bill is wrong. It is yet another money gathering exercise, just like the household tax which we are told is going to be used to pay for services. In that case one could ask why have bin services been privatised in Dublin. Taxation should not be based on the size of the engine but on the leval of usage. Therefore, one should tax petrol. The principle, with which I always try to deal, is that the polluter pays. I have an old car which cost me €6,000, but it costs me €3,000 in tax and insurance payments to keep it on the road. I use it once a week. If the tax goes up, I will offer it at a reasonable price to my colleagues in Seanad Éireann.
I, too, refer to the bravery of the Collins family in Limerick who put up with incredible intimidation following the murder of their son. It is difficult to think otherwise that in a way they feel politics has let them down because they have had to succumb and seek refuge and a better quality of life abroad.
I agree with what has been said about the Mahon tribunal. Many of us would have suspected about what had happened in the past and, unfortunately, it has been confirmed. As far as the public is concerned, politics is broken and it is up to us to fix it and ensure those who have been named and shamed will pay the price. I will fully support any endeavour on which the Government may decide to deal with those concerned through their pensions and where it hurts, namely, their pockets, because politics has been disgraced by a small few who must pay. I support calls for an in-depth, detailed, comprehensive and principled debate on the findings of the Mahon report because, if this House is to be relevant, as we all want it to be, we must lead by example and lead the charge towards a better political system. We are living in a democracy and the people expect us to do this. They expect politics to work and we must ensure this happens.
On the household charge, while it is everyone's desire that it will be made easy for people to pay bills — that convenience and comfort must be facilitated — motor tax is not paid through the post office, no more than many other important bills. The bottom line is that there is a deficit. We are spending €15 billion to €16 billion more than we are taking in. Unfortunately, a property tax is the norm throughout the world and the citizens of this country will have to pay the household charge and a property tax in the future.
This House has a very honourable tradition in the matter of promoting human rights. We have monitored and responded to human rights abuses and humanitarian crises throughout the world. I bring to the attention of the House a humanitarian issue nearer to home. The highly respected human rights champion, Monsignor Raymond Murray, has brought to our attention the plight of Ms Marian Price who has been kept in virtual isolation in a Northern prison for the past 12 months. She is very sick and still carries the scars of the terrible trauma she suffered all those years ago when she was a young woman. The Good Friday Agreement and all that has flowed from it have released an extraordinary spirit of generosity and a shared vision for all the people on the island. That spirit of generosity could be extended in this case to Ms Marian Price. No purpose can be served by her continued incarceration. She is a danger to no one at this stage. I would ask the Leader to request the Taoiseach to use his good office to see if something can be done to effect the release of Ms Price. She must get proper medical attention. She needs to be back with her family. I am convinced that if we can get the correct response to what I am raising here, it can only enhance the positive results which have already come from the Good Friday Agreement and the peace process. I hope the Leader will avail of the opportunity to accede to my request.
"Throughout that period, corruption in Irish political life was both endemic and systemic." If we were to put our finger on one piece from the Mahon tribunal report, that is the one line I would pick out from it. Of course, I would hope the Leader can find a way to facilitate a lengthy and thorough debate on the Mahon tribunal. It is difficult to be grateful in any way, shape or form for the Mahon tribunal, but for myself, as an investigative journalist who stood up and stated that business and politics were too close and who suggested time and again that there was corruption and deceit and that persons were telling lies, I am grateful for the Mahon tribunal because I can, at last, say that I was neither delusional nor mad when I said those things. When one says them and one is on one's own, or there are few saying them, it is difficult to go on believing that one might be right when everyone else around is saying one is wrong. It has taken far too long for this to come to this point and for the Mahon tribunal to have finally reported in this way, but I am grateful for that. I would ask for the debate and I would also further ask that the Leader might write to the Taoiseach to ensure the idea of having this review of the Constitution, either in the constitutional convention or for the Taoiseach to do it, would include finding a way to stop the pensions of those who, for want of a better way of putting it, are found wanting in the Mahon tribunal report and who draw their pensions from the State. If that requires a review or amendment of the Constitution, then that should be done. I ask the Leader to write to the Taoiseach with a view either to including it in the constitutional convention or to reviewing the Constitution and calling a referendum for such a change.
I listened with great interest to what Senator O'Keeffe and others had to say. It is important we would have a debate on the Mahon tribunal report as soon as possible. I disagree with my friend, Senator Darragh O'Brien, if he was suggesting that we should wait until the Dáil has had its say. It is true what Senator Bacik states, that we are absorbing this the whole time, but the essentials of this story are well known to us and it is important that we would have a debate in the Seanad on this as soon as possible.
It was, undoubtedly, a bleak period in Irish life. Recriminations are understandable at a time like this. While people are right to feel let down by and deeply angry at the political class, it is important we remember the great progress that has been made, particularly in legislative reform, over the years in terms of ethics and standards that perhaps have made it much more difficult for anything like this to happen now, yet we must always be vigilant because neither regulations nor legislation can ever really guard against this kind of thing happening unless there is a culture of virtue. We need to promote that culture of virtue in politics and I hope that will be part of our debate as well.
I also hope that if we are looking at measures, for example, punitive measures which might require constitutional change, and such decisions are to be made in the future in the same spirit of points that I have made here previously about politicians' expenses, it would be important that the matter would be entrusted to a suitable objective person outside of politics who would not be subject to the desire for publicity. Although normally I would certainly say that wrongdoing should be established properly in a court of law before one goes with punitive measures, if it is the will of most politicians that there would be measures of this kind, then it is certainly important that politicians would not be seen to be the ones standing in judgment on others.
I agree very much with what Bishop Richard Clarke of the Church of Ireland had to say this morning when he expressed concerns about Church of Ireland schools, particularly those in rural areas. He made a very interesting point on which we should reflect in the context of many different debates, namely, equality means we treat things that are different differently. That is very often forgotten in the debate about equality. Certainly, when it comes to Church of Ireland schools, there is a precious distinctiveness that needs to be upheld and protected. The bishop was rightly conscious of not wanting to portray the Church of Ireland schools as being engaged in any kind of special pleading but a special case does need to be made for Church of Ireland schools, particularly in rural areas.
I was saddened, although that is not strong enough a word, to hear there is a worrying trend among retailers who are letting workers go without proper provision being made for them. I refer in particular to Game, the computer retailer which has its head offices in the UK but which has a certain number of retail outlets in Ireland, many in this constituency and in Dublin in general. It is rumoured, and is becoming increasingly clear, that PricewaterhouseCoopers has been appointed as administrators. I appeal to it to make sure the workers are properly taken care of. It seems a trend is developing which the Government needs to seriously address as it is ultimately the State and the taxpayer who pick up the tab. I ask the Leader to raise the matter with the appropriate Ministers.
I join colleagues in welcoming the Mahon tribunal report. It is unfortunate it had to cost us so much money but I suppose that is all part of it. The corruption is appalling. A debate is warranted and it should be a constructive one. As Senator Conway said, we need to think of ways forward for the political body and we need to make sure things change in a real way, not in a way that is just a facade. I would welcome such a debate.
I was minded to propose an amendment to the Order of Business that we discuss the Mahon tribunal but I take it from the Government side that there will be a debate either by the end of this week or early next week. I support that and suggest we have it as early as possible.
It is important to say that no political party or politician should try to take the high moral ground on this issue. It is a very serious matter of corruption that went right to the heart of the political establishment. While it is important for us to have discussion and debate, what people are scandalised about is that many politicians simply do not see what happened as a crime. The kind of corruption we saw was not victimless crime; it led to very bad planning decisions that meant many people are living without proper infrastructure because of bad rezoning, lack of infrastructure and so on. What people want is not more dialogue and debate; they want the recommendations of the report implemented in full.
I would add two quick points——
We cannot have the debate today.
I accept that but will just make two quick points. One of the things we could do — it is interesting it is also supported by the Fianna Fáil Party — is to have a complete ban on corporate donations. Let us once and for all separate any links between politicians and business, which would be a step forward. Second, we need to make sure every single recommendation in the report is implemented in full.
People want a new beginning. They want young politicians who are coming forward to give leadership on this so we do not have the kind of perceptions people have of the political system into the future. The only way that can happen is if we make the right decisions now. There are also issues in regard the sanctions and penalties that will apply to those who have been found guilty of corruption. People want to see action, they want to see such people before the courts and, if found guilty, they want to see them jailed because these crimes were not victimless.
As other Senators noted, we are approaching the eleventh hour for payment of the household charge and there is still confusion. I, for one, am now totally confused. It is bad that some legislators are advocating that people break the law, but it is worse when officials from the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government either misinform people about who should pay or else they, too, are misinformed. Last Thursday I had a telephone call from a lady in the west who has a post office attached to her private residence. She asked me to find out how she could get an exemption in order that she would not have to pay, in the knowledge that ratepayers did not pay the charge. When I contacted the Department the official told me that she must pay the household charge as well as rates. He cited section 2(2)(d) of the Local Government (Household Charge) Act 2011 as evidence of the reason those with such businesses should pay the household charge. On Monday, through the post, everybody got a leaflet setting out those liable to pay. It also set out among the exemptions any residential property subject to commercial rates and wholly used as a dwelling. Therefore, they are exempt. I contacted the lady after I received the leaflet and she told me the president of the Irish Postal Workers Union had told people in her situation that they are liable for the charge. Given the confusion, I ask the Leader to clarify the issue with the Minister.
Once the 31 March deadline has expired there should be a grace period of 30 days for those who have received mixed messages because of legislators telling him they should not pay. They should be given time to pay. We must be mindful that there are people who can only pay the €100 charge in the same way as they pay their television licence, by buying a stamp every week and when the money is raised, the debt is paid off. That means of payment should still be considered.
I join others in welcoming the publication of the Mahon tribunal report. It is particularly welcome given the 15 years of drip-feeding of information which, despite the wishes of many while the deliberations were ongoing, prevented many actions being taken during that period. I say, as a relatively young Member, that a start can finally be made, following some legislative improvements in recent years dealing with standards in public office, on introducing more of the recommendations in the report to ensure the people can have some level of trust in a political system that has failed them for almost 40 years.
I share the view of other Senators that no one has exclusivity on the abhorrence of the contents of the report or for anybody who abuses the privilege of public office. When the report is debated in the House, we can devise tangible solutions and recommendations for legislative improvements, similar to the many that have been made by Fianna Fáil in government in recent years. I reiterate what our Leader has said, that nobody in Fianna Fáil, nor any other party, should or will hide from the conclusions of this report which, I hope, will mark a new beginning for all those within politics, but particularly the people who deserve much more than what they have received in the past 40 years.
I join the Deputy Leader in calling for a debate on criminality and the justice system. No family should have to leave their home or country because of thugs and criminals. We all share the pain of the Collins family who emigrated at the weekend. It is up to politicians to sort out the problem and ensure those people are put behind bars, where they deserve to be. We cannot allow the anarchy that is developing in parts of the country to take hold.
I, too, welcome publication of the Mahon tribunal report. I do not know who the author was of the following statement: "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."
Burke.
What is so depressing about the Mahon tribunal report is that nobody at a high level shouted, "Stop." Since the 1960s the dogs in the street knew there was corruption in the political system and that there was illegal activity within government, particularly Governments led by the largest party. Several former Ministers and Taoisigh have been disgraced. It is ironic that the person central to the tribunal is in Nigeria, the second most corrupt country in the world, telling people how they should run their business.
I feel sorry for three groups, the first of which is the people who have paid a very heavy price for corruption, manipulation and mismanagement. The second is rank and file members of Fianna Fáil who have been badly let down by their senior politicians. The third is the honest, decent, hard working politicians of all parties who are tainted by association. I hope the Director for Public Prosecutions, the Revenue Commissioners, the CAB and the SIPO will do their job and take on board the findings of the Mahon tribunal.
These are points the Senator can make in the debate.
Sanctions must be imposed on those who have acted illegally and broken their contract with the people. As previous speakers said, their pensions must be looked at and they should be hit where it hurts most, in their pockets.
Last year 70 million Chinese people travelled abroad and 10,000 of them came to Ireland. The Italians looked at the figures and wondered what they could do. They always issued visas in Beijing and Shanghai, but its Ministry of Foreign Trade established about 30 mobile offices to issue visas around China and the number of Chinese visitors coaxed into visiting Italy increased by 100%. That is exactly the kind of thing an energetic and enterprising Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade could do. I am sure there are students and others who would be willing to man such offices for a number of months to encourage more Chinese tourists to visit Ireland. As Russians now travel abroad in very large numbers, how about having 20 mobile visa offices in Russia? This year very large numbers of Russians, Chinese and others will travel to Britain for the Olympic Games. I know we have done great things to encourage them to come to Ireland, but we could do a lot more. We need somebody in the Department to adopt a business like attitude and say we can do something to avail of this opportunity. Last year 70 million Chinese people travelled abroad. It is estimated that 100 million a year will travel abroad for the next few years and we could coax a large number of them to come here. Following the visit of the Taoiseach, the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine will shortly visit China where we now have a high profile. As this gives us an opportunity to promote tourism, let us not miss it.
I call on the Leader to arrange, at the earliest possible juncture, for the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government to attend the House. I know he will be here to deal with other matters, but it would not be fair to ask him to deal with this issue at the same time. A question that is pending before the Cabinet is the establishment of a new water authority. Perhaps we might call it Bord Uisce. It will be one of the more significant, serious and profound decisions the Government will make because it will have serious implications for the entire country and economy for the next 50 or 60 years at least.
It is appropriate in the current warm spell to bear in mind that reservoirs throughout the State are already, in March, running dry, with those serving the Dublin and Leinster regions depleted to worryingly low levels. No new reservoir has been built in this country for 70 years. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government must, at the earliest juncture, inform the House of the Government's plans for the establishment of the proposed new water utility, to be called Irish Water or Bord Uisce. We have enough chiefs and chief executive officers in this State to form this body from existing agencies. We must draw on the existing corporate knowledge, skills and capacity within the semi-State sector, including Bord na Móna, Bord Gáis and the National Roads Authority, to establish and operate this new water utility.
The vulnerability of water resources is a matter of serious concern for householders, the business sector, the agriculture sector and foreign direct investment, which relies on a sustainable and secure supply of water into the future. The Minister must inform the House of the Government's thinking and the direction it intends to take on this matter. It will involve the installation of metering and the repair of the piping network throughout the State, which is currently leaking thousands of gallons of water into the ground. If water charges are to be introduced, it is vital that we get it right in establishing a national water utility. There is no room for error in this matter. The consequences for the economy of constituting this utility without the proper structure and capacity would be disastrous.
Will the Leader set aside time for a comprehensive discussion of the proposed referendum to ratify the fiscal compact treaty? It is important that this House should have an input into the debate and perhaps offer a platform for contributions from outside interests, including Commissioners, MEPs and so on. I understand the date for the referendum has been agreed by the Cabinet and will be announced today in the Upper House. I presume it will 7 or 8 June, in the week following the June bank holiday. We in the Fianna Fáil Party, under our leader, Deputy Micheál Martin, fully endorse the treaty and urge our supporters throughout the country to vote "Yes". We do not intend to make the referendum, which is an issue above and beyond politics, a political football. It is in the national interest that we ratify the treaty and be one of the first 12 countries so to do. There will be no joy for the country if the referendum proposal is rejected.
We cannot have a debate on this issue on the Order of Business.
Our party leader has been clear from day one in this regard. There is unanimous backing for the proposal within the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party and we expect our supporters throughout the country will endorse the treaty. Its success is absolutely vital. It is regrettable that the same group of individuals who are opposed to everything are set on leading people down a cul-de-sac for the benefit of their own narrow political base. They are ranting about issues in the knowledge that it is in the best interest of this country and Europe that the treaty be ratified.
I look forward to a discussion in the near future on the report of the Mahon tribunal. Such a debate is appropriate. It is equally appropriate and correct that the Government has referred the report to the various agencies of the State in the expectation that action will be taken where those agencies see fit. We are all disappointed at the pronouncements made in the report and the damage they inflict on politics. There has been a great deal of talk about standards in political life. It is an issue that is worthy of debate. I propose that we take time to discuss a variation on that theme, namely, the standard of politics. I submit, as I have often done, that our political system which encompasses our electoral system, system of central government and system of local government, or lack thereof, leads to a vacuum whereby poor political practice sometimes comes into play. While I appreciate that a constitutional convention will consider matters such as the electoral system, we in the modern Republic must reflect on the manner in which politics and political business are conducted. I refer to the relationship between the Government and the Parliament, the absolute weakness of local government and the desire of one small group of politicians to hold onto all powers, irrespective of which party or parties may be in power at the time. While the question of standards in politics is worthy of debate, the standard of politics and the political system in this State has led to many of our problems. Moreover, subjects such as internal infighting among parties, with politicians chasing after one another at constituency level rather than attempting to run the country as they should be doing, also must be addressed in the cool light of day because they all are part of the same problem and, if addressed, will be part of the solution.
Members have been discussing the household charge a lot in this Chamber. During the debate on the legislation underpinning the household charge, Senator Ó Clochartaigh tabled an amendment pertaining to poverty analysis of legislation, which proposed including such analysis in respect of that particular legislation. The Central Statistics Office has revealed today that the number of households at risk of poverty has risen to almost 16%. Moreover, the income gap between rich and poor grew from 4.3 times to 5.5 times. The Leader should arrange for the Minister for Social Protection, as well as the relevant officials from the social inclusion division of her Department, to come into this House to discuss how poverty-proofing legislation is approached. There should be a debate on having potential poverty impact analyses of legislation, on how one considers the legislative process and on how the decisions taken by the Oireachtas materially affect those who already are struggling. The aforementioned figures published today demonstrate that people are beginning to struggle and are being hit both materially and socially. This is an issue Members must begin to examine with real effect and this is the reason I call on the Leader to bring in the Minister for Social Protection, as in future, Members should begin to include amendments of the type previously tabled by Senator Ó Clochartaigh.
Probably in common with other Members, the findings of the Mahon tribunal came as confirmation of something that had been going on for years in Ireland. However, anyone who has read Roman history will know that political corruption also existed in ancient Rome and ultimately brought down the Roman empire. What I have read constitutes a systematic violation of rules of an organisation by some of its members. In the context of the Fianna Fáil Party, I note this involved some members and that it is very easy to tarnish Fianna Fáil with one name. There are many fine politicians within the Fianna Fáil Party in this Chamber but some of its members disregarded both the other members and the country and ended up corrupting the entire country. What happened in ancient Rome is that paramilitary groups started up, dictatorships were established and this finally destroyed the Roman empire. One should be conscious of the damage corruption can do to one's country. Perhaps we are lucky that Mr. Colm Mac Eochaidh and another gentleman brought this issue to the fore and provided the country with an opportunity to discuss the corruption that took place. I hope Fianna Fáil Party members will recognise what happened and will not merely state they intend to move on from this. When Members come to debate the tribunal's findings, I hope the debate will be reasoned but that they will put down a marker for the country. They should remember that while this is not the first incidence of corruption to happen in the world and certainly will not be the last, it should be the last for this country.
It is natural that Senator Darragh O'Brien and so many other colleagues should be concerned about the Mahon tribunal report and should seek a debate in early course. I have no doubt but that the Leader will provide such a debate for the House, once the relevant Minister is available. The significant cost of the tribunal to the taxpayer has been mentioned. In a sense, both Houses of the Oireachtas in providing for the sanctioned terms of reference could have drawn things tighter. It is easy to say that now. We should remind ourselves of the many challenges by citizens who were well able to afford them and a number of which went all the way to the Supreme Court. I will not say these people had more money than sense. One of them, the Murphy Jr. case, has serious implications for the taxpayer in terms of fees and costs.
I have no doubt the Government is giving this serious report and its recommendations thoughtful consideration. Equally, there is no doubt the Government agrees with them and will adopt them and further them legislatively, as is required. The House will have to deal with that in due course. I would welcome a debate.
I mention the complications arising from the household charge and the need for a proper explanation to the people of the consequences of not paying the charge. That should be done in a very calm fashion. I ask the Leader to request the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, to come to the House for a further discussion of the matter. People do not realise this charge will be on their houses if they do not pay and it will carry forward to the sale of a house. It could end up as a charge on a will and there would be a difficulty if people want to move house.
I strongly condemn the kite flying that went on at the weekend by persons unknown regarding council staff being sent out to call to doors to collect the household charge from people. Are these the same people who advised the Minister when he refused to expand collection to all local authority offices and he refused to collect cash at local authority offices? Are these the same people who advised the Minister that people should not be able to pay the charge in a neighbouring county? Are these the same people who stuck their heads in the sand when we ran into this difficulty and failed to advertise except in the last ten days?
We cannot have a debate now.
I know that and will finish with this. The memory of the sheriff and battering ram is still in the memories of the people. While I am a Member of this House I will not stand for such a threatening fashion of collecting money. I condemn it outright and would like the Minister to answer the issues.
I ask the Leader to arrange a debate on the Mahon tribunal report as soon as possible. I agree with my colleague, Senator Cullinane, that nobody can afford to take the high moral ground. In the words of Thomas Kinsella: "I fold my towel with what grace I can", "for they are not made whole/That reach the age of Christ". Nevertheless, there is something surreal about a compromised former Taoiseach lecturing to people in Nigeria. There is something equally sickening about another compromised individual grinning like a hyena or an ass eating thistles and embarrassing the Taoiseach and the country when the Taoiseach rang the opening bell for the New York Stock Exchange. These people should slip quietly away and let us get on with the task of restoring confidence in our politics.
Senator Coghlan and others have mentioned that the tribunal could cost a lot of money. I will perhaps have some proposals that we could look at on how costs are awarded by tribunals and in all State business because costs are very high. However, that is not to take from the good work of the tribunal but it is something we will have to address.
I add my voice to the calls for a debate on the Mahon tribunal. There has been much talk about it today and many Members from both sides of the House have expressed abhorrence at what the tribunal reported and found. Every day when one walks through the corridors of power, one becomes very aware of the ghosts of those who have gone before one and of those voices which are still around. Every day I walk past a gallery of portraits of past Taoisigh. The position of Taoiseach is a very privileged one to occupy. I see school tours, elderly people, young children and others walking past these portraits and being told about these great men.
Is it still appropriate that the portraits of people who have been found culpable of corruption, abuse of power and of privilege and perjury hang in Leinster House? Perhaps the time has come for a clean out of those portraits and that we start a new brand of politics and show our young people and young people who become involved in politics proper role models. I became involved in politics because I admired different politicians who had gone before me but now these people have stained political life in Ireland and it is time they were wiped from our memory.
That is ridiculous.
I would like to talk on a positive note because there is much negativity today. Some young people were invited to India by the Irish ambassador to India for St. Patrick's week. Four young students, who are in a traditional Irish music band, were asked to play at a number of events in India. They were told Irish traditional music is growing in India which has a population of 1.2 billion. They played at more than ten events and more than 1,000 people attended one of the events. It was a celebration of Irish culture in India. That was a positive thing which took place to celebrate St. Patrick's Day and those festivities. It goes to show that it is not only the Taoiseach who is giving a positive image of this country. Young people are also prepared to do so. The Irish ambassador to India should be congratulated on taking that initiative.
Senator Quinn referred to marketing Ireland abroad. Brazil, Russia, India and China are the four main countries where there is huge growth and we need to use all our resources to gain our market share in those countries. What the Taoiseach, the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, Enterprise Ireland and the diplomatic service are doing must be recognised and given every support. Will the Leader arrange a debate on how we are trying to expand the markets in those four countries? It is not only about trade in goods but it is also about music and culture. Riverdance, for instance, was extremely successful in China. It is a joint approach. On a day when there is much negativity, we need to talk about the positives and the good things being done around the world of behalf of the people.
I echo Senator James Heffernan's sentiments. The thought ran through my mind last weekend. I agree the walls of this great building should only be adorned with portraits of people who have shown excellent example and been great role models for the country.
I welcome the High Court decision and settlement in the case of Ms Olivia Kearney, the lady from County Louth who was subjected to an unnecessary symphysiotomy at the age of 18 years. I commend her and all the other victims of symphysiotomy for their bravery in speaking out and raising awareness of this barbaric procedure which was performed on 1,500 women in the latter part of the 20th century. I again call on the Leader to schedule a debate on the issue following the excellent debate in the Dáil a few weeks ago. We should continue that good work by having a debate in this House.
I refer to the shock announcement last Thursday of the closure of the Vodafone call centre in Dundalk and the transfer of jobs to Newry. A few weeks ago we heard the wonderful news that 1,000 jobs new jobs were to be created by PayPal in Dundalk, but in one fell swoop last week 350 jobs were lost in Vodafone's call centres in Dublin and Dundalk. Will the Leader ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to come to the House to debate the commitment of international companies such as this to the economy? It is important to have a debate on the issue.
I support the calls for a debate on the Mahon tribunal report chomh tapaidh agus is féidir linn.
I welcome the major increase in the number of tourists to Ireland between December 2011 and February 2012 in comparison to the number in the same period last year. This shows the Government's initiative to make Ireland a more desirable and affordable place to visit is paying off. I support the call made by Senator Feargal Quinn regarding opportunities in the Far East. We should do all we can to encourage Chinese tourists to visit this country in the next year or so.
I am probably the only Member who was a member of Dublin City Council during the time covered by the Mahon tribunal. I was first elected to the council as a member of the Progressive Democrats in 1991. I am proud to have been a member of that party, as one or two Members opposite always remind me.
As the Senator should be.
Senator Cáit Keane to continue, without interruption.
As mentioned, every party has good and bad people. It is like a barrel of apples. When there is a rotten and corrupt apple, it sours many beside it. People have to be careful and take personal responsibility for decisions made, while party leaders must take major responsibility for them. However, they cannot take all the responsibility because they were not holding councillors' hands when they were voting "Yes" or "No". Politicians should research what they are doing. I support the calls for a debate. However, the report is new. How many have digested and researched its contents? When the Director for Public Prosecutions has made his recommendations on it, I would like the House to discuss it again to see what we can do to ensure sanctions and penalties are imposed and issues such as pension payments are evaluated and re-examined. I ask for a prompt debate and an analysis on how new politicians can educate themselves on the steps they need to take before making any decisions about politics for the good of society as a whole.
We have had 18 Members speak on the Mahon tribunal report and call for a debate on it. The Fianna Fáil leader in the House asked when we would have a debate and I indicated we would have one soon after we return after the recess. We should have a very considered and informed debate. I will give as much time as is necessary to discuss it. If one day is not sufficient, we will allow further time. I can assure the House that nobody will be prevented from speaking.
On the Motor Vehicles (Duties and Licences) Bill, unfortunately all Stages have to be taken today because the Bill has to be signed by the President tomorrow. All Stages are being taken because, I understand, no amendments have been tabled.
On the household charge, I understand people have already taken a lot of pain. We all recognise that and that it feels like a bridge too far for many people, but the reality is that we are in the middle of an adjustment we have to make. Despite the pain that is already being felt, we still have some way to go. We are obliged to introduce some form of property charge by the agreement we had to sign up to with our external lenders when we could no longer borrow from anywhere else.
Even if we did not have our current banking problems, as I said last week, we would still have a big gap between our income and expenditure which has to be balanced. It is not truthful to say the money raised from the household charge will go to bondholders and banks. Our overall spending has to be reduced. We have to fund local services in new ways. The money raised from the household charge will be ring-fenced for that purpose. I am not claiming that paying the household charge will mean increased services, but failing to collect the charge will mean reduced services. I realise there have been difficulties with collection. No money should have been refused from any quarter, whether by local authorities, An Post or whoever. People still have time to pay the household charge and I believe the majority will do so.
Senators Bacik, Conway and others referred to crime and the case of Mr. Stephen Collins. We all agree he and his family stood by the institutions of the State and paid a dreadful price for the courage they showed. It is vital the State stands behind them. Despite the great progress made by the Garda in tackling gangs in Limerick, to which we should all pay tribute, it remained necessary for Mr. Collins and members of his family to have intensive Garda protection. We should regret that he had to take the decision to leave, but we all fully understand why he did so. All right-thinking people would wish him and his family well in their move. The greatest tribute that can be paid to them is for the Garda to continue to bring to justice those involved in gangland activities in Limerick and elsewhere. The Garda is determined to do that and we should all assist it in every way possible in that regard.
Senator Ó Murchú raised an issue concerning the human rights of Marian Price. If he provides details, I will convey them to the Tánaiste.
On the Mahon tribunal report, Senator O'Keeffe referred to business and politics being too close and she would certainly know that. As she stated, she was alone when she made the remarks to which she referred. I hope that when the constitutional review comes into play, a mechanism will be found to allow the payment of pensions to corrupt politicians to be stopped. That is an outcome people want. While the issue of portraits being displayed in Leinster House is a matter for the Oireachtas Commission, I understand where Senators are coming from in that regard.
Senator Noone referred to Game, a computer retail company. Senators will all express a wish that workers in the company receive their full entitlements and likewise the staff of other firms which have closed in recent months.
Senators Feargal Quinn and Colm Burke referred to visas. Some 70 million Chinese tourists travel worldwide every year and the Government has taken steps to improve the position, as Senator Quinn noted. I agree, however, that much more needs to be done. I also take on board Senator Burke's comment on the importance of extending our markets and tourism products to countries such as Brazil, Russia, India and China. I also note the points he made on Irish culture and music.
Senator Whelan referred to Irish Water. While the House debated the issue previously, we can have a further debate. Our reservoirs are at unseasonably low levels. I note the Senator's point on the need for water conservation.
To respond to Senator Leyden's contribution on the fiscal compact, I understand the Tánaiste has announced in the other House that the referendum on the treaty will take place on 31 May. A presentation on the treaty was made in the audiovisual room and the Seanad also had a four hour debate on it. I hope to meet the leaders of the parties and groups to ensure Senators have sufficient time to debate the treaty once the wording of the referendum and relevant legislation become available.
Senator Moran raised the barbaric practice of symphysiotomy, on which we will try to have a debate. I believe I have covered most of the issues raised on the Order of Business, which was dominated by the Mahon tribunal report and the household charge, but if I have omitted anything, I apologise.
Question put: "That the Order of Business be agreed to."
The Seanad divided: Tá, 28; Níl, 22.
Tá
- Bacik, Ivana.
- Bradford, Paul.
- Brennan, Terry.
- Burke, Colm.
- Clune, Deirdre.
- Coghlan, Eamonn.
- Coghlan, Paul.
- Comiskey, Michael.
- Conway, Martin.
- Cummins, Maurice.
- D’Arcy, Jim.
- D’Arcy, Michael.
- Harte, Jimmy.
- Hayden, Aideen.
- Heffernan, James.
- Henry, Imelda.
- Higgins, Lorraine.
- Keane, Cáit.
- Kelly, John.
- Landy, Denis.
- Moran, Mary.
- Mulcahy, Tony.
- Mullins, Michael.
- Noone, Catherine.
- O’Donnell, Marie-Louise.
- O’Keeffe, Susan.
- O’Neill, Pat.
- Whelan, John.
Níl
- Barrett, Sean D.
- Crown, John.
- Cullinane, David.
- Daly, Mark.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Mac Conghail, Fiach.
- MacSharry, Marc.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Mullen, Rónán.
- Norris, David.
- Ó Clochartaigh, Trevor.
- Ó Domhnaill, Brian.
- Ó Murchú, Labhrás.
- O'Brien, Darragh.
- O'Sullivan, Ned.
- Power, Averil.
- Quinn, Feargal.
- Reilly, Kathryn.
- van Turnhout, Jillian.
- Walsh, Jim.
- White, Mary M.
- Zappone, Katherine.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Paul Coghlan and Susan O’Keeffe; Níl, Senators Ned O’Sullivan and Mary M. White.
Question declared carried.