Adjournment Matters

Direct Provision System

Senator Jillian van Turnhout

While I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan, to the House, I would have loved an opportunity to congratulate the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, on the successful passage of the children's rights referendum. We have not seen her in this House since the referendum, unfortunately. I am raising the issue of direct provision accommodation on the Adjournment tonight. Much of the public awareness and outcry about the abuse and mistreatment of children in State-run institutions followed the publication of a series of damning reports, including the Ferns, Ryan, Murphy and Cloyne reports and most recently the child death review report that was drawn up by Dr. Geoffrey Shannon and Ms Norah Gibbons. In response to the latter report, I expressed my profound sadness and a sense of the responsibility and shame I bear as a member of a society that has systematically failed to protect our most vulnerable children. As the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, remarked last year at the launch of an Amnesty International report, In Plain Sight: Responding to the Ferns, Ryan, Murphy and Cloyne Reports:

At every turn, Irish people kept their mouths shut out of deference to state, system, church and community. When they should have been unified in fury and outrage they were instead silenced, afraid to even whisper a criticism against the powerful.

I am genuinely concerned that the situation for children in direct provision accommodation centres for asylum seekers will lead to a future Ryan report if we do not take immediate action. I refuse to stay silently complicit.

This is not an easy area to pursue. At this juncture, I am focusing solely on the situation for children in direct provision accommodation. I am finding it difficult to establish which ministerial remit covers which scenario. I have previously raised the applicability of standard 3.4 of the HIQA national standards for the protection and welfare of children with the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, on the Adjournment. The standard in question stipulates that "child protection and welfare services provided on behalf of statutory service providers are monitored for compliance with legislation, regulations, national child protection and welfare policy and standards". The HIQA national standards for the protection and welfare of children clearly apply to children in direct provision. They apply because the children in question are residing in accommodation facilities under the remit of the Department of Justice and Equality. They apply, irrespective of the children's country of origin or the status of their parents. They apply, regardless of whether they are in the care of the State or cared for by the State. They apply because contrary to what the Minister has suggested, it is simply not true that all children living in direct provision accommodation "live in a family context and their parents or guardians have primary responsibility for their care and welfare".

I would like to refer the House to a report drawn up by the Irish Refugee Council, State Sanctioned Child Poverty and Exclusion: The Case of Children in State Accommodation for Asylum Seekers, which was published in September of this year. I would also like to mention the 2011 report of the special rapporteur, Dr. Geoffrey Shannon, in which he highlights "the specific vulnerability of children accommodated in the system of Direct Provision and the potential or actual harm which is being created by the particular circumstances of their residence including the inability of parents to properly care for and protect their children". The HIQA national standards apply because the State has an obligation to ensure the health, safety and welfare of these children. The Minister has conceded that the HIQA standards "apply to the HSE children and family services in the context of its role in dealing with children living in the direct provision system who are referred to it". I assure the House that such referrals are capable of being made under the Reception and Integration Agency's child protection policy or by GPs and teachers, etc. According to the HSE, these scenarios fall within the remit of the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. I am seeking clarification on the number of referrals the HSE has received about children in direct provision accommodation centres. I want to know whether the Minister shares my position that any centre from which a child welfare and protection referral is made should be subject to immediate inspection in accordance with the HIQA national standards.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Deputy Jan O'Sullivan)

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. I will convey her concerns to the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Frances Fitzgerald. I am sorry that the Minister is not here to reply.

The Reception and Integration Agency, RIA, is a functional unit of the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service, which is a division of the Department of Justice and Equality. The RIA is charged with providing accommodation and ancillary services for asylum seekers - adults and their children - under the direct provision system while their applications for asylum are being processed. Direct provision centres are monitored three times a year, twice by Department of Justice and Equality staff and once by an external company. Under the Children First national guidance for the protection and welfare of children, any concerns about the welfare, safety or well-being of a child should be reported to the HSE children and family services. The child protection and welfare policy of the RIA reflects this practice.

The HSE received approximately 31,000 reports last year. Reports on children residing in direct provision accommodation are included in this number. The RIA has advised that 171 referrals, regarding a range of child protection and welfare concerns involving family units in direct provision accommodation, were made to the HSE children and family services in 2011. These included a significant number of welfare concerns such as a parent being hospitalised, parental illness, a child being left unsupervised by an adult, and mental health concerns regarding the parent, etc. A smaller number of referrals related to child protection concerns. Such referrals can be made under the RIA's child protection policy by staff and other residents, but may also be made by GPs and teachers, etc. A specific unit within the RIA - the child and family services unit - is responsible for managing, delivering, co-ordinating, monitoring and planning all matters relating to child and family services for all asylum seekers residing in the direct provision system. This unit also links, where necessary, directly with the Garda.

As the Senator's question relates specifically to the application of the HIQA national standards for the protection and welfare of children, I wish to outline the position on these standards. In July 2010, the Government decided to prioritise the inspection of the HSE's child protection service by the Health Information and Quality Authority. The first of these inspections took place this month. The inspections are undertaken against standards developed by HIQA as provided for under the Health Act 2007. As part of the inspection process, HIQA inspects the HSE's child protection service at all levels, from national management to social work team level.

HIQA developed the national standards for the protection and welfare of children in consultation with a wide range of stakeholders. The national standards apply to the HSE children and family services and the performance by the HSE of the duties placed on the HSE under section 3 of the Child Care Act 1991. The standards set out the key features of an effective child protection service. They clearly put the needs of children at the heart of that service and promote the principles outlined in Children First, the national guidelines for the protection and welfare of children. The standards are designed to follow a child's journey within the HSE child protection system to ensure his or her safety is being protected. They describe how the services should be provided and examine the use of resources, information and management of services. The national standards apply to the HSE children and family service in the context of its role in dealing with all referrals to the service, including referrals regarding children living in direct provision accommodation. It is essential to ensure children's safety is being protected while they are receiving a service within the HSE child protection system.

It is critical that services for children are of a high standard and it is important to set out clearly what a child and his or her family can expect from the HSE children and family services. We need good practice in child protection to be applied uniformly and these standards are a key part of that. They will be a critical aspect of the external quality assurance infrastructure and will support continuous improvements to children's services into the future.

HIQA inspects all residential services run by the HSE for children who are in the care of the State. It does not inspect the accommodation provided under the direct provision system or other similar services such as homeless services or refuges for those experiencing domestic violence. Children living in the direct provision system are not in the care of the State. All live in a family context and their parents or guardians have primary responsibility for their care and welfare.

Senator Jillian van Turnhout

While I appreciate the Minister of State may not be able to answer this question, I have a huge difficulty in differentiating between "in the care of the State" and "cared for by the State". These children are being directly cared for by the State. If one visits any of these direct provision centres, children are not necessarily in a normal family context and there may be two or three families in one room. I have a difficulty with this and will continue to pursue this question. The response is a fudge.

On the question I asked about standards, are we saying the HIQA standards do not apply and that no child protection standards apply? Must we wait for requests from the very people whose applications are being decided on by the Department of Justice and Equality and who do not want to upset that Department? It would be the equivalent of asking Irish families who are receiving social welfare payments to get the Department of Social Protection to investigate itself. These matters are separate for a reason. It should be independent. We should have learned from the past.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I can see the Senator is very concerned about this issue. I will convey those concerns directly to the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, and ask her to contact the Senator directly with regard to her supplementary question.

Household Charge Cost

Senator Thomas Byrne

I raise this matter having been contacted, with my colleague Councillor Nick Killian, by residents in Ratoath, County Meath, who live on an unfinished - though not very problematic - estate that has not yet been taken in charge. The issue they raise is the inherent unfairness of the household charge. A different level of service is provided in different counties. Many people moving to County Meath from County Dublin, including Fingal, are shocked to find there is no parks department in County Meath, which is a major feature of Fingal County Council and of public interaction with the council. There are differences in the level of service provided for different estates based on whether they have or have not been taken in charge. I am aware of an estate in Stamullen where the lights are not working but it is not of a sufficiently low standard for the residents to be exempt from the household charge. They are getting a lower level of service yet they are required to pay the €100 charge and, presumably, will have to pay the property tax next year. Within the local authority areas in County Meath, there is a further difference in the level of service, whereby people actually get more services from the local authority if they live in a town council area. While I want to protect and enhance that, the fact remains that people in a county area pay the €100 while people in a town area also pay €100 for a different level of service.

The Government made a huge mistake when it promoted the household charge as funding local services because people see these discrepancies and say "It is not fair. That person is getting a better service than me although I pay the same €100". Many believe they get nothing for their €100 and, while that is not entirely correct, there is a ring of truth to it. I met a woman in Ashbourne, County Meath, who owes €600 every year to her management company for the upkeep of her estate, which is not a walled-in or gated estate and has a public open space within it. In addition, she has to pay €100 to Meath County Council, which she feels is an unjust charge that is being imposed when she is not getting the required level of service.

There are huge inequities with the household charge, particularly with regard to different levels of service. The Government should look at what local authorities are doing and should be doing and adjust the household charge accordingly.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

The EU-IMF programme of financial support, which was signed up to by Senator Byrne's party, contains a commitment to introduce a property tax for 2012.

Senator Thomas Byrne

That will lose them votes.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

The programme reflects the need to put the funding of locally delivered services on a sound financial footing, improve accountability and better align the cost of providing services with demand. It was considered that, in light of the complex issues involved, a local property tax would take time to introduce and, accordingly, the Government decided to introduce a household charge in 2012 as an interim measure.

An appropriate broadening of the revenue base for local government will be achieved through the household charge and the forthcoming full local property tax, which is important in ensuring local authorities have the necessary resources to continue to deliver services to their communities. As this topic demonstrates, the introduction this year of the household charge and the introduction next year of the local property tax have an additional benefit, beyond that of a more sustainable system of funding the local government sector, in that a local property tax will direct attention to the local services that are being funded by that tax. Citizens will, I hope, engage with their local elected representatives in a new fashion to address the services being provided and the quality of those services, thereby altering in a meaningful way the relationship between the taxpayer citizen and the local authority which is funded by those taxes. This change in the local dynamics of accountability will, I believe, have a transformative beneficial impact over the long run, further reinforced by the general programme of local government reform.

The diverse services provided by local government are very important for our collective well-being. The range of local authority services include the following: road maintenance and cleaning; libraries; fire and emergency services; street lighting; parks and other recreation and cultural public amenities; spatial and development planning and other similar services; regulatory and inspection functions; and business support services. All primary local authorities provide such services. Crucially, they also provide democratic representation for communities, which is a unique function of local authorities. We all benefit from the services local authorities provide, even when such benefits accrue at a community level, such as from the positive contribution libraries make to society as a whole, or the benefit of having access to services one may need in the future, such as fire and emergency services.

The household charge and the local property tax are not intended to reflect the degree to which an individual household, or set of households, receive services. Liability is not reflective of service usage at any one point in time, not least because such a mechanism, in my view, would be regressive and inefficient. Rather, funding from property-related taxes reinforces the link between decisions on service provision as a whole in a local authority and the funding of those services. I thank the Senator for raising this issue.

Electoral Divisions Establishment

Senator Marc MacSharry

I wish to discuss the issue of the local electoral area boundary committee which was established by the Minister, Deputy Hogan, to determine the electoral areas. The committee's terms of reference state at paragraph 9:

Subject to a minimum total of 18 and a maximum total of 40 members of every other council -

- there should be one member for every 4,830 population in each council area ...

Therefore, based on the population threshold of 4,830 people per councillor, counties such as Roscommon, Leitrim and Sligo would have the minimum number of councillors, which is 18. The terms of reference continue:

... in addition, and subject to a maximum of four additional members per council except where councils are merging:

- in counties where there are existing town councils there should be four additional members per Borough Council and one additional member per Town Council ...

In my first reading of the terms of reference, Sligo, one of the five boroughs in the country, similar to Kilkenny, would have 18 councillors plus an additional four in lieu of the borough council that is moving. Around Leinster House, however, and from talking to colleagues from Fine Gael and the Labour Party, I have heard the suggestion that there is in fact a maximum of 18, including the additional four. I seek clarification on the question of whether Sligo is to have 18 or 22 councillors.

In the event that the maximum is 18, I wish to make the case, while acknowledging the expertise of Professor Gary Murphy in this regard, for additional councillors for the ninth largest urban centre in the country. We are all supportive of the need for rationalisation, savings and more efficient local government, as difficult as that is for all parties and councillors, but we must not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

The Minister of State, in her capacity as Minister with responsibility for housing, visited the Cranmore regeneration project in Sligo town last week. While the population within the borough is approximately 19,000, when account is taken of the population of the suburbs it is between 23,000 and 24,000, which means there are additional demands and a need for additional councillors to adequately cater for the people and the many diverse problems that come with a large area. The Minister of State will have seen the good work being done through the Cranmore regeneration project. In the event that the maximum is 18, then the budgetary situation in the Sligo area - which is, as I said, effectively the ninth largest urban centre in the country - with the council already €73 million in debt and the old borough unable to balance its books, will be a challenge for those few councillors versus their colleagues who, obviously, are doing their best for the people in their particular areas.

We need clarification on this matter. I hope the clarification provided by the Minister of State will not be in line with the rumours circulating around the Houses in recent weeks. If so, there will be a need to move quickly to rectify this situation in the context of the five boroughs to ensure that where the population falls below the level required to ensure an automatic 18 councillors, this can be increased to 22 so as to in some way compensate for the loss of the borough, while adhering to the theme of efficiencies and savings to the State. We must ensure there is not a lack of representation for larger urban centres such as Sligo.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I thank the Senator for raising this issue. My visit to Sligo last week was very positive. I was impressed by what is being done there, particularly in Cranmore. I hope I can clarify the situation for the Senator.

The action programme for effective local government, "Putting People First", was published on 16 October 2012. It sets out Government policy for reform across all the main areas of local government - namely, structures, functions, funding, operational arrangements, governance, the role of the executive and the elected council and engagement with local communities. The most fundamental reorganisation of local government structures since the present system began in the 1800s will be undertaken. A number of city and county local authorities will be unified; there will be extensive change at regional level, with rationalisation of structures and updating of functions, and at sub-county level a new system of municipal governance will be introduced. This will involve the comprehensive territorial configuration of each county into municipal districts in which the elected members will perform a range of important local functions on a fully devolved basis. The districts will be designed, as far as possible, around existing municipal towns and large urban centres which do not currently enjoy municipal status. Overall, the number of council seats will reduce from 1,627 to no more than 950.

My colleague, the Minister, Deputy Hogan, announced the appointment of an independent statutory local electoral area boundary committee on 15 November 2012 to carry out a local electoral area review, on which the new municipal districts will be based. The electoral review also has the specific goal of achieving better balance and consistency in representational ratios, while taking particular account of factors such as the location of towns and local identities in the new municipal governance arrangement. The terms of reference for the review contain the parameters defining the total number of seats on each council, including a weighting to be applied to take account of existing municipal towns. These take account of the significant population changes that have taken place since the current numbers were decided while at the same time ensuring adequate numbers for effective representation and governance in counties with lower populations.

The committee will review and make recommendations on local electoral area boundaries in the context of the results of the 2011 census and the action programme for effective local government. It has been asked to report to the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government no later than 31 May 2013 and to review and make recommendations on the division of each council area, other than Cork city, into local electoral areas and to make recommendations on the number of members of each council to be assigned to each local electoral area.

The number of members for Dublin city and for Cork county are specified at paragraph 8 in the terms of reference. As outlined by the Senator, for all other councils, as specified in paragraph 9, the numbers will be calculated on the basis of one member for every 4,830 of population, with additional members where there are existing borough and town councils and merging city and county councils. Those additions are subject to a maximum of four, except where councils are merging. These calculations are all subject to a minimum total of 18 and a maximum total of 40 members as set out in paragraph 9 of the terms of reference. Therefore, each of the five counties with borough councils will be allocated four members additional to the number of members by reference to population, plus the relevant town council addition, but subject to the limits set in the terms of reference on the maximum additions and on the overall number of members of the council.

It is a matter now for the committee to proceed with its work. We await its recommendations, which are due in May 2013. I have replied in general on the issue rather than specifically with regard to Sligo. However, I hope I have clarified the position.

Senator Marc MacSharry

As the reply was drafted for the Minister of State, it is clearly not her fault. She appears to be as confused as I am. The reply refers to an additional four members for boroughs. It also refers to a minimum total of 18 and a maximum of 40. I am sure the legal eagles would have good fun with that. As I understand it, places such as Sligo and Kilkenny will have 18 members plus an additional four. However, the view among the Minister of State's colleagues and others is that the maximum is 18. While I do not wish to disenfranchise County Leitrim, the population there is approximately 32,000, while the population in Sligo is approximately 66,000. As I stated earlier, Sligo has the ninth largest urban centre nationally. Perhaps the Minister of State will clarify whether the maximum for Sligo will be 18 or 22. In the event that it is only 18, I ask that the Minister revisit the decision. It is ridiculous in the extreme to suggest 18 members will represent 66,000 equally as well as 18 will represent 32,000.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I will try to get the specifics for Sligo, which I understand is what the Senator wants. The Minister, Deputy Hogan, stated in his press release on this matter that in counties where there are existing town councils there should be four additional members per borough council and one additional member per town council. I do not know if that makes the position any clearer.

Senator Marc MacSharry

It does not.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I will ask the Minister to forward the specifics about Sligo to the Senator.

Senator Marc MacSharry

I thank the Minister of State.

Teacher Training Provision

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

I wish to share my time with Senator Sean D. Barrett.

Acting Chairman (Senator Michael Mullins)

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

The Church of Ireland College of Education, which is based in Rathmines, was established in 1811 and is one of the oldest teacher training colleges in the country, with a proud and distinctive record of training primary school teachers who provide great educational opportunities for children throughout the country.

This matter relates to a report commissioned by the Minister for Education and Skills, which was undertaken by a group of international experts and focuses on teacher training colleges throughout the country. One of the recommendations contained in that report is that St. Patrick's College in Dublin be merged with Dublin City University and the Mater Dei Institute and that a new centre be based at the St. Patrick's College campus in north Dublin. The Church of Ireland College of Education is also involved in the process and is to be amalgamated into a new institute of education in Drumcondra. I understand the Minister supports this recommendation. The report has been sent to the Higher Education Authority, which has been asked to put meat on the bones of the recommendations and report back to the Minister. I am not sure whether the Minister has received that report yet. Following receipt of the report from the HEA, the Minister will bring its recommendations and findings to the Cabinet.

The Church of Ireland teacher training college in Rathmines is unique in that it provides for a minority religious ethos in this State. Therefore, the individuals who attend the college are predominantly of Church of Ireland origin.

There would be a constitutional issue if the college were to be merged with another, in this instance a Catholic one, as it would dilute the ethos of a minority religion. That would present a constitutional challenge and be a step too far. All religions should be catered for equally under the Constitution which the Government has a responsibility to uphold on behalf of the people. If any such amalgamation takes place, it will be contrary to what is written and enshrined in the Constitution.

There was an attack on Church of Ireland and Protestant primary schools in last year's budget in that smaller schools were attacked. This had a disproportionate effect on Church of Ireland schools. This represents a further attack. The Minister of State might indicate what is the position.

Senator Sean D. Barrett

I welcome the Minister of State and thank Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill for sharing time with me.

I wish to relate some extra information. Last night I attended a meeting of senior academics and fellows in Trinity College Dublin at which there was great dismay that TCD could lose its connection with teacher training. Surely the highest ranking university could have no more important task than linking with the training of teachers. There is dismay and also confusion as to how this happened. How did friends fall out? It would certainly be the view of that body of academics that it would be a bad day for Ireland were this to happen. It is a very important job of any university to relate to people up to the age of 14 years in post-primary schools and any abdication of that role would be bad for Trinity College Dublin, the Church of Ireland College of Education and Ireland as a whole.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I am taking this Adjournment matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Skills, Deputy Ruairí Quinn. I thank the Senators for raising it.

The Minister has accepted the recommendations set out in a report commissioned by the Higher Education Authority on the structures for initial teacher education, ITE. The purpose of the report was to identify new structures to improve initial teacher education in Ireland in order that it might be comparable with the best in the world. The international panel of education experts which conducted the review recommended that teacher education be provided in six centres for teacher education. Currently, there are 19 State-funded providers of ITE and three non-State funded providers, offering more than 40 college programmes in primary and post-primary teaching.

Changes are under way to the content and length of teacher education, with a greater emphasis on literacy, numeracy and pedagogical skills. The structural changes will complement the curricular reforms under way and assist in positioning Ireland at the forefront of teacher education. We know from research that the quality of our education system cannot exceed the quality of our teachers, which is why the Minister is driving changes at both a structural and content level in teacher education. The new collaborations recommended by the international panel will mean that there will be a smaller number of centres for ITE, but they will offer education across multiple sectors, from early childhood to primary and post-primary to adult education. These centres of teacher education will also possess a critical mass in terms of research capacity which is not always possible in smaller institutions. The new configurations will mean that strong research bases will be cemented in each centre. The report recommends the following configurations: Dublin City University - St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra and the Mater Dei Institute of Education; Trinity College Dublin - Marino Institute of Education, University College Dublin and the National College of Art and Design; National University of Ireland, Maynooth - Froebel College; University of Limerick - Mary Immaculate College and the Limerick Institute of Technology; University College Cork - Cork Institute of Technology; and the National University of Ireland, Galway - St. Angela's College, Sligo.

The review panel also suggested the Church of Ireland College of Education would be suitably positioned to join any of the first three new configurations. The Minister has made it clear to the college authorities that while he cannot support them remaining on their current campus, he is happy for them to negotiate their own destiny, consistent with their desire to protect their ethos within the broad parameters of the HEA report. The college has signalled its intention to join DCU, St Patrick's College, Drumcondra and the Mater Dei Institute.

The review is in keeping with the recommendations in the national strategy of higher education 2030, or the Hunt report, which sees local, regional and international collaboration as the key to higher education system development. It will also form part of a wider review of the entire higher education landscape which is under way by the HEA.

Ireland continues to attract the highest calibre of students into the teaching profession. The Minister believes the restructuring of teacher education which he has initiated will mean these top performing students will receive an education that will equip them to become the best possible teachers. He has asked the HEA to submit a detailed report before the end of the year on how to implement the recommendations of the panel. It is too early to set out precise timelines or plans for individual colleges. The Minister will consider the implementation plan from the HEA in full and will then report back to the Cabinet in the new year with more formal proposals, including proposals for the Church of Ireland College of Education.

Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill

I thank the Minister of State and appreciate her response was a script from the Department of Education and Skills. At least, no decision has been made - that is the only thing we can say. However, the Minister has outlined that he cannot support the Church of Ireland College of Education remaining on its current campus where it has been located since 1969. Management of the college may have one view, but from speaking to parents and clergy members of the Church of Ireland, I know they have a very different one. This should be taken into consideration.

I refer to the amalgamation of the NUIG with St. Angela's College in Sligo. That is a non-runner. The best possible attainment in educational output and teacher training is achieved at the college. Thirteen students apply for every place on offer at the college. If it were to be amalgamated with the university in Galway, there would be no teacher training college north of a line running from Dublin to Galway. This would be a retrograde step and a campaign is under way in that regard.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

I reiterate that I will convey to the Minister the concerns of the Senators in regard to St. Angela's College, Sligo and the Church of Ireland College of Education.

The Seanad adjourned at 9.40 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 5 December 2012.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht - Tuesday, 4 Dec 2012