Adjournment Matters

Construction Contracts

Senator James Heffernan

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Hayes, for coming to the House as I know he has had quite a long day, as have we all. I wish to speak about an episode that took place in a school in Kilfinane almost two weeks ago, which was widely reported on in the media. A number of subcontractors who were going to be left out of pocket by the main contractor involved in building the new school took action. They decided that the only way to get recompense for their loss was to go into the school and take out what they believed belonged to them. Incidents such as this badly affect small communities. The people involved were from places like Ballinderreen, Elton, Bruff and Murroe. One of the men involved is the father of seven children and one of his daughters babysat for my sister. A brother of the guy from Elton is married to a second cousin of mine and the sister of another guy taught me in primary school. That gives some indication of how closely connected everybody involved was. The Minister of State will appreciate that the entire episode really cut close to the bone in the local community. I wish to praise the staff and parents in the school who, when they saw their school being stripped of equipment, intervened because they had fought to have the school built for many years. I also wish to praise the local gardaí for ensuring that a volatile situation did not get out of hand.

The crux of the matter is that many of the subcontractors who worked on the site and who were left short had also been left short previously by a different contractor. When the first contractor on the school project went bust, some of the subcontractors were down considerable sums of money. One guy in particular was owed almost €80,000. That kind of money is make or break for subcontractors. For a main contractor, it might not be the end of the world but for subcontractors, it is. One guy in particular had remortgaged his house in order to buy equipment. Losses such as those incurred could easily have sent the subcontractors over the edge. When the second contract was awarded I was delighted to see the same subcontractors who had lost out on the first contract being given a chance to recoup some of the money lost and to finish the work they had started. I welcomed that at the time but eyebrows were raised locally when the name of contractor who was awarded the second contract became known. It begs the question as to what type of research is done when tenders are submitted, when contracts can be awarded to people who have not got a great reputation locally. I spoke to an engineer shortly after the contract was announced and he threw his eyes up to heaven and said "forget about it, that is not going to be finished". However, that is a separate issue which I will not go into now.

The subcontractors were left in absolute desperation and I am concerned about the delay in bringing forward the construction contracts legislation. A motion was before Limerick County Council in May calling for the legislation to be introduced before the summer recess. The Construction Industry Federation wrote to me again last week concerning this issue. The federation said that it has been almost two and half years since this legislation was first introduced in the Seanad by Senator Feargal Quinn, which was long before my time in the House. Will this legislation be expedited so that subcontractors are given the protection they need and deserve? Will the law be passed soon?

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Deputy Brian Hayes)

I thank Senator Heffernan for raising this issue. I am aware of the case to which he referred in Kilfinane, County Limerick, and the circumstances surrounding the subcontractors on the national school project there. It emphasises the need to swiftly enact this legislation and if I can be as bold as to say, it is not for the want of trying on my part.

That is a shift in the responsibilities and there is a sense of frustration on my part that we have not made more progress.

The Bill in question is not a Government Bill, but one put forward by Senator Quinn. The Government has accepted the Bill and it has concluded Second Stage in the Dáil. I have set out the areas of it on which I intend to bring amendments on Committee Stage and I hope that by early in the new year the Government will have agreed to those amendments, through the Office of the Attorney General and the Department. This will allow me take the Bill to Committee Stage as soon as possible and on to Report Stage and then back to this House to where it started over two and a half years ago.

I wish to acknowledge the work of Senator Quinn, who has been a partner with me in trying to get this Bill on the Statute Book. I had a meeting recently with representatives of the construction industry and I outlined to them the new timetable we have for the passage of this Bill early in the new year. The case in Kilfinane highlights the need for this legislation. Although the Bill will not have retrospective effect with regard to cases that happened some years ago, it will have effect from when it is enacted. We must ensure the rules and procedures are right for subcontractors.

Last summer, we had a full regulatory impact statement on the legislation, when all of the interested players, on the supplier and construction side, large and small, worked with me and spokespersons to work out a number of amendments. As a result of that regulatory impact statement, I have given commitments to the Dáil with regard to amendments on thresholds and adjudication. I want to go ahead with this Bill, but the problem is getting the time to do it and I am frustrated that we have not made more progress on it.

I wish to assure the Senator that the Government intends to get the Bill over the line as soon as possible. I hope to be back to this House early in the new year to report progress on the Bill so that it can be enacted and so that a case like the one that occurred in Kilfinane will never happen again. With regard to the particular case to which the Senator has referred today, I am not sure the Act, if it was in place, would make a difference. My officials have said it would not have applied because of the circumstances, but that highlights even further the need to make progress on this.

Senator James Heffernan

I welcome the Minister of State's response and his commitment to bringing the legislation through as soon as possible. I accept the point that this might not have had an impact in this case, although it might have been helpful for some of the subcontractors. I could be wrong, but as far as I understand, the Bill only comes into play for contracts worth over €50,000. That is not a lot of money for many large contractors, but it is a significant sum for smaller contractors. It is the difference between staying afloat and going out of business or going bankrupt. I suggest the Minister of State should take a look at that.

Deputy Brian Hayes

The Senator is correct. The threshold in the current Bill is €50,000. I am of a mind to abolish the thresholds altogether so the regulations will apply to everyone. We have not decided a view on that issue but the threshold will certainly be lower than €50,000. There is an argument for abolishing it altogether. The objective is to ensure these cases do not go to court. It is to work up an adjudication system which will arrive at some agreement for both suppliers and contractors. This system has worked well in the United Kingdom without thresholds and should work equally well here in our smaller market. Margins are very tight currently because of the reduction in cost of approximately one third in the total amounts for these contracts. I am minded to have no threshold, but we will wait to see the amendment.

Architectural Qualifications

Senator Thomas Byrne

I am delighted to have this opportunity to raise this matter on the Adjournment and thank my colleagues for not availing of the opportunity too often, which lets me in by default much of the time.

This issue relates to the proposal for a so-called grandfather clause with regard to people who can practise as architects. What is the Government doing on this issue? This has been an issue for some time, but the current registration process is time limited and concerns people who are not members of the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland but who effectively do the same job and get the same recognition. I understand this has become more of an issue as banks have tightened up with regard to who can certify planning permission applications, certificates of compliance with building regulations and other general structural assessments of property. It is only right that banks tighten up on this, as there has been too much laxity in recent years. However, there are many people who can do the same job as an officially qualified architect and who have been recognised as qualified until now. What is the Government position on this situation, because there are many practitioners who do not have the official qualifications who are finding the current situation very difficult?

Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government (Deputy Fergus O'Dowd)

I thank Senator Byrne for raising this issue.

There are no plans to amend the arrangements in place for the registration of architects along the lines suggested. Part 3 of the Building Control Act 2007 provides for the registration of persons permitted to use the title of architect. The Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland, RIAI, has been designated as the registration body.

Section 22 of the Act makes specific provision for a category of practically trained persons who for a period of ten years, at the time the Act became law, had been providing architectural services in Ireland commensurate with those understood as being provided by architects for the purpose of the Building Control Act. This provision is transitional in nature and enables this category of persons to become registered once they have been assessed as eligible for registration by the technical assessment board in accordance with the practical experience assessment procedure. This process assesses work submitted by the applicant and does not involve or rely on any examination or any formal academic requirements. In effect, this route to registration may be regarded as a grandfather clause along the lines suggested. There is and can be no question, however, of any individual being allowed to use the title of architect without having first demonstrated in a fair and objective manner that the services he or she has been providing are commensurate with those of persons who are registered to use the title of architect.

There has been some disquiet with regard to the fee specified for candidates who apply for registration, which has been set at €4,500. This is a significant reduction on the figure originally proposed. The costs involved are considerable and the scale of the fee necessarily reflects this. Section 62 deals with the specification of registration fees and, importantly, requires that the fee specified must not in any case exceed the total of the costs in providing the services for which the fee is paid and the reasonable costs incurred by the registration body. I understand that the registration body has confirmed that the recommended fees are in line with the requirements of section 62.

In addition to the technical assessment route, which is limited to certain persons already providing architectural services in Ireland prior to the 2007 Act, section 14(f) provides a permanent route to registration for practically trained persons who have seven years appropriate practical experience and who have passed the prescribed register examination. Taken in their totality, the various routes to registration provided for under Part 3 of the Act represent a registration process that is open, fair and transparent. The factual position is that specific provisions have been put in place to ensure that practically trained architects can be included on the register.

I understand that 14 candidates have sought to undergo the technical assessment procedure to date. Of these, eight candidates have been successful, three candidates have been unsuccessful and the remaining three candidates are currently under consideration. Candidates who are unsuccessful have a right of appeal. In addition, the inaugural register admission examination resulted in 26 practically trained persons being deemed eligible for inclusion on the register of architects. It is anticipated that a regular throughput of practically trained persons will come through the register admission route each year.

I would encourage all practically trained persons to pursue the routes to registration which are currently open to them, with a view to joining the small but significant and growing numbers of practically trained architects already on the register.

Senator Thomas Byrne

I thank the Minister of State for that clarification, but I intend to pursue the issue. The registration fee is very high and only a small number of people have gone through the process. Making the process more accessible would not just help those who would qualify under the process but would also help consumers.

Many of the people who are doing this type of work should never be anywhere near this type of work.

Deputy Fergus O'Dowd

Absolutely.

Senator Thomas Byrne

I would like to protect those who are really good at doing the same job as an architect while getting rid of some of those who are charging people a great deal of money even though they make serious mistakes and are often not insured. I recently encountered a case in which a major mistake was made by someone who did not have any insurance. If we could get more people to be professionally qualified as architects, it would help everyone involved, including the consumer. I would like the Government to give more consideration to this. I am not making a political issue of it. I think it is worth highlighting. Perhaps the Government can give it some further thought.

Deputy Fergus O'Dowd

I assure the Senator that his comments will be brought to the attention of the responsible officials in the Department.

Nursing Homes Support Scheme

Senator Martin Conway

I apologise for being late. I was in the Merrion Hotel. Secretary of State Clinton is in residence there.

I recently met a family that was taken aback after being asked to pay €25 a week in addition to what the Government is paying to nursing homes under the fair deal scheme. As I do not have a huge knowledge of the intricacies of the scheme, perhaps I am wrong in my understanding that the arrangement with nursing homes is that all bills relating to a person's medicine and care, etc., are discharged by the State. I understand that people declare their means and their assets, including the moneys they have in the bank, when they enter into the scheme and the figures to be paid by such people and by the State are determined on that basis. The family in this case was recently asked to pay an additional €100 a month. Those involved feel this is unjustified because their loved one who is in the nursing home had a small amount of disposable income, but that is now gone. The explanation they have been given is that this money is needed to cover the cost of providing additional services to their loved one.

I am sure the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, is in a position to provide the clarity I am looking for. Is this request for an additional payment appropriate and proper? Is it legal? If it is contrary to the ethos of the scheme, what means of recourse are open to the family to try to get this dealt with? If it is not possible to get the money paid back, the family would at least like to prevent this from happening in the future. If this request is being made in one nursing home, I am sure it is being made in many others. Perhaps some sort of audit or investigation is required. I know the Minister of State is deeply committed to the care of the elderly. I am sure she will be most anxious to ensure proper and appropriate things are being done. I look forward to hearing her response.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kathleen Lynch)

I thank the Senator for raising this matter. At the end of October 2012, almost 22,200 people were receiving financial support towards the cost of long-term nursing home care. In addition to residents who receive financial support under the scheme, this figure includes people who were in public nursing homes before the scheme commenced, people in receipt of subvention and people in contract beds. A further 769 people had been approved for funding, but were not yet in payment. In addition, some 371 people were on the placement list for funding. It takes approximately three to four weeks for funding to issue. All individuals who are approved for funding under the scheme are placed on a national placement list in chronological order, based on the date of determination of their application. Funding is issued to individuals in chronological order to ensure equity nationally.

When the nursing homes support scheme commenced in October 2009, a commitment was made that it would be reviewed after three years. A public consultation process to inform the review, concluded in mid-July. The Department will publish a summary report of the submissions received and thereafter seek tenders through the public procurement process for the carrying out of the review. A considerable amount of preparatory work for the review has been completed. It will be progressed within the constraints of available staff and other priorities. It is envisaged that the review will be completed in 2013. The scheme provides financial support towards the cost of long-term residential care services. The services which fall within the scope of long-term residential care are nursing and personal care appropriate to the level of care needs of the person, bed and board, basic aids and appliances necessary to assist the person with the activities of daily living and laundry service. Incontinence wear, where required, is provided free of charge by the HSE to all nursing homes support scheme residents who possess a medical card. Individuals availing of the scheme should not be charged an additional fee over and above the contribution calculated by the HSE, unless they have chosen to obtain additional services over and above long-term residential care services.

Under the Health Act 2007 (Care and Welfare of Residents in Designated Centres for Older People) Regulations 2009, the registered provider must agree a contract with each resident within one month of his or her admission. This contract must include details of the services to be provided to that resident and the fees to be charged. Residents should not be charged fees which are not set out in the contract and agreed with the resident. The Health Act 2007 gives statutory responsibility to the chief inspector of social services, who is part of the Health Information and Quality Authority structure, for the independent inspection and registration of certain categories of designated centres. This includes residential care settings for older people. The chief inspector has the power to refuse to register, attach conditions to a registration or cancel the registration of a designated centre in the event of non-compliance with the care and welfare regulations or the national quality standards for residential care settings for older people in Ireland. I hope this brings some clarity to the matter.

Senator Martin Conway

I thank the Minister of State for her most comprehensive reply.

Mental Health Services Provision

Senator John Kelly

It has been a long day, politically. I will be glad to see the back of it. I thank the Minister of State for her efforts in ensuring funds have been returned to people who were under threat of losing money from their home care packages. The protection of the home help budget has been a major achievement by our side of the House today. I believe the children of County Roscommon are not getting the same treatment as the children of every other county in the country. For the last four years, no occupational therapist has been available to assist those who need to avail of the child and adolescent mental health service. Although those of us in the HSE west are in the same common bond, to put it in credit union terms, people in Roscommon cannot avail of the services of an occupational therapist who might work out of Galway or Mayo. It just cannot be done. In other areas of the health system, it is possible for those with certain specialties to cross county boundaries and assist where needed. A person working for the HSE in Roscommon could get a job in Mayo, and vice versa, if that was happening for promotional purposes. Somebody in Galway could get a promotion in Roscommon. There would be no border issues in such circumstances.

The community occupational therapist who is employed by the health service in Roscommon does not feel qualified to deal with most severe or acute cases of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, in particular. I know from talking to those involved that cases of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder takes up a great deal of their time. I am not sure whether the Minister of State saw the recent edition of "Prime Time" that dealt with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. I sympathise with any family that has to deal with this problem, which has been downplayed by some psychologists for many years. Some of them do not recognise it as an ailment. Those who have to live with it are living in hell.

When are we going to have an occupational therapist in situ in County Roscommon, as this is long overdue?

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I thank the Senator for raising the issue. While it is not in my speech, the clinical need in regard to child and adolescent psychiatry in Ireland has, in fact, made one of the clinical programmes in regard to ADHD. It is one of the priority areas and is well recognised at this stage.

The Government has prioritised the reform of our mental health service in line with A Vision for Change and is committed to reforming our model of health care delivery so more and better quality care is delivered in the community. It is the intention that, over time, access to modern mental health services in the community will be significantly improved.

This House will appreciate that the current economic environment presents a significant challenge for the health system generally in delivering services. However, the provision of mental health services is being treated as a priority, in so far as we can do so. In that regard, a special allocation of €35 million for mental health was provided in budget 2012, in line with commitments in the programme for Government, to further strengthen existing community mental health teams in both adult and children's mental health services.

Some 414 posts were approved to implement the €35 million package of special measures for mental health, of which 150 posts were allocated specifically to child and adolescent mental health services. Under this process, Roscommon-east Galway child and adolescent mental health services received three additional posts, one of which is the senior occupational therapist post referred to by the Senator. To date, 17 posts have been filled nationally and over 270 offers of employment have been accepted from the overall figure of 414. It is expected they will be in post in the next week and the others will be in post, at the very latest, at the end of January next, so the appointments are proceeding. In addition, interviews for the ten posts for the psychological and counselling services in primary care, which will also be funded from the €35 million special allocation, were completed recently and the results will issue shortly. The start dates for these ten posts are expected to be in early 2013 to allow for the process of checking references and so on, while most of the other start dates for the community mental health teams are expected to commence this month.

With regard to the specific issue of the occupational therapist post in Roscommon, the HSE has confirmed that the filling of this vacant post has been approved. The HSE national recruitment service has been in contact with the successful candidates inviting them to express an interest in the post. This expression of interest expired on 30 November. The national recruitment service will now issue a recommendation to proceed with the appointment of the candidate who is highest in order of merit and who has expressed an interest in the post. Once the appropriate clearances for the candidate have been processed and finalised, a start date will be agreed and the national recruitment service will issue a contract to the successful candidate.

To conclude, I wish to assure the House that the Government remains committed to the development of community mental health services and, in this regard, the recruitment of the nurses and allied health professionals required to augment community mental health teams will be completed as early as possible.

Senator John Kelly

What can I say to the Minister of State but "Thank you very much"?

The Seanad adjourned at 9.05 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 6 December 2012.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 5 Dec 2012