Seanad Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 5 Nov 2014

Vol. 235 No. 5

Adjournment Matters

Technological Universities

Senator David Cullinane

I welcome the Minister to the House to take this Adjournment matter and thank her for taking it because I am sure she knows it is a very important issue for the people of Waterford and the entire south east.

I am an enthusiastic supporter of a multi-campus technological university for the south east. I want to say that at the outset. I have always fully supported the process. I fully supported the benchmarking and the very strict criteria which have been set for both institutes. If we are to get a university in the south east, and we need one as quickly as possible, it has to be one that reaches the very highest standards, acts as a proper university and takes its place as one of the top performing universities on the island. Therefore, I fully support the benchmarking which has been set. I am also conscious that from the very start of this process there have been people - described within the south east as dark forces - within the Department, within the Higher Education Authority, HEA, within the academic world and possibly even within both institutes who have never wanted this to happen, who are precious about the existing universities and who do not want a new university in the south east. Perhaps that is partly responsible for the mess we are now in, given what happened over recent weeks with the withdrawal from the process of Waterford Institute of Technology, WIT and, a couple of days ago, the resignation of the chairperson of the board. There is no doubt that academic politics are part of what is happening here. The simple reality is this messing has to stop.

We must have a process that works and delivers, and we cannot continue with the educational apartheid we have on this island and in this State, where the south east is without a university. The Government must intervene and ensure this process stays on track, that the ship is steadied, that we stay the course and that we deliver for each and every one of the students of the south east. This is far too serious an issue for anyone to play political games. I am fully behind the process and the multi-campus technological university, but I am not behind the games that are being played. I am not behind what I see in some parts of the process as a flaw. There seem to be mixed messages from both institutes on whether they can meet the criteria. There are genuine concerns that the process is being held back because of that. That must be dealt with. We have to be open and honest with people in terms of where the process is at. I am told by a person in Waterford Institute of Technology that the process could take five years, ten years or even 20 years if it is not varied or if we do not see a change of the phasing or of the legislation to enable the multi-campus university to come about much sooner.

I have a number of questions for the Minister. Why are we so obsessed with a process that clearly is not working? I accept most of the process and the very high benchmarks. It is clear, however, that the process has not worked up to now. Perhaps the Minister will be able to tell us why that is the case. Why are we not prepared to change it? Why is full university status not being looked at for Waterford and the south east? That question is being asked of me as a public representative and I am sure of all the public representatives. I also have a very direct, blunt question to the Minister about the resignation of the chairperson. Did the Minister ask the chairperson to resign or did he resign voluntarily? That is an important question because there are a lot of rumours going around Waterford and the south east. The Minister is best placed to answer that and to set the record straight. It is a very honest, direct question to the Minister on why that chairperson resigned and if there was any political interference in his decision-making on that. Will the Minister answer those questions directly and will she set out what she, as Minister, is doing to ensure this process stays on track? What is the likely timeframe? That is probably the critical question people will be asking themselves. When will this be delivered? We have jumped through so many hoops and over so many hurdles. People have an entitlement to know the answer to that question as well.

Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Jan O'Sullivan)

I thank Senator Cullinane for raising this issue. It is a high priority for the Government. We are implementing a higher education reform programme that will significantly enhance the quality of higher education for our country and our region. I welcome Senator Cullinane's support for the process. There are no dark forces at work or games being played on this issue within the Department and the chairperson decided himself to resign. I acknowledge fully the work he has done over the years but he felt it was appropriate that someone else would carry the baton, as it were, from this point on.

There is not some kind of status difference between a technological university and the universities currently in existence. They are all equally universities. It is full university status that is being worked towards. An important element of the programme of reform is the consolidation of the technological sector, helping to create new multi-campus technological universities of significant scale and strength, where merging groups of institutes reach a high performance bar before attaining this new status. Three consortiums are currently engaged in that process. Two of them, in Dublin and Munster, are significantly advanced and submitted detailed merger plans to the HEA earlier this summer. This Government is committed to the creation of a multi-campus technological university for the south east as outlined in the programme for Government. The process and criteria to attain this new status were published in early 2012. It appeared that, until recently, both institutions were committed to delivering a business plan for their joint future by the end of this year.

As the Senator is aware, in recent weeks Waterford IT unilaterally announced that it was suspending moves towards a merger with IT Carlow, which could lead to the creation of a technological university in the south east. This development is regrettable and I am taking immediate steps to ensure that momentum is re-established and that the south east region can benefit from the economic and social dividend which I believe the technological university model can deliver.

I announced yesterday a new process to reinvigorate the project of a technological university for the south east. I have appointed Mr. Michael Kelly to lead a process of consultation with the governing bodies, staff and students in Waterford Institute of Technology and Carlow Institute of Technology in order to develop a shared vision for a technological university in the south east. As a former chairman of the Higher Education Authority, Mr. Kelly is very well known within the sector. He has also played a leading role chairing the consortium which is seeking to establish a technological university in the Dublin region and has an in-depth knowledge of what is needed to create such an institution. Mr. Kelly will also be asked to report on the best structure to implement the project and the potential timescale. He will report to me in early January.

I have also requested that Mr. Kelly broaden the consultation to ensure that the voice of other social and economic partners in the south east feed into the process. That would include Senator Cullinane, as a representative for the area. We firmly believe that multi-campus technological universities will make a positive contribution to third level education in Ireland and to the regions.

The Senator asked me about the timeframe. I am expecting Mr. Kelly will be able to give me a potential timescale in early January, but this process has to get back on track. Mr. Kelly has a relatively short timeframe in which he has to report and then we will move forward with the process. One of the reasons it has taken so long is because there have been problems between the two institutions. We have to get them together, working on the same track. There is no reason that Waterford and the south east cannot have a university in a relatively short space of time. I cannot give Senator Cullinane an exact timescale at this stage.

Senator David Cullinane

I have a number of brief supplementary questions. Why is there a need for a new consultation process? We have had consultation after consultation on this issue for decades. We have an institute of technology in Waterford which is operating almost as a university and that has been recognised. The reason for a new consultation process is because the process has developed into a mess. It is unfair and simplistic to characterise the problem as differences within both institutes. There are dark forces within the Higher Education Authority and in the academic world, which were against it from the outset. If anybody does not believe that, their heads are in the sand. It is part of the problem but not the only problem.

I asked about the resignation of the chairman of WIT, and this is a very important question, and I put it to the Minister again, whether she had a conversation with the outgoing chairman before he resigned. Did she have a conversation with him about his stance on this issue and did that conversation influence his decision to resign as the chairman of the board? I think the people of Waterford will be less interested in those issues and more interested in the timeframe. I appreciate that the Minister states that she cannot give me that information today, but the people of the south east need to be given confidence that not only is the process back on track but it will be delivered and we will end the education apartheid in the south east.

This is about the students. It is not about the Minister or me, but the young people of the south east who deserve to have educational opportunities as anybody else has. The Minister is best placed to make that a reality. Of course, the institutes have to play their part as do the Higher Education Authority, the Department of Education and Skills and the senior officials involved. I appeal to the Minister to make it happen by doing everything possible to make this happen.

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

The reason I have appointed Mr. Kelly is because the project had gone off the rails and Waterford pulled out of the process. What I want Mr. Kelly to do is not just to consult but to come up with a plan as to how we move forward and to come up with it quickly.

I want him to get the two institutions focusing on what this technological university will be like, what services it will deliver to the people of the south east rather than focus on the problems with a merger between two institutions, on which unfortunately a lot of time has been spent. They must see the bigger picture in terms of what they are creating together. That is what the other two regions have been doing. The south east needs a technological university even more so than the other two regions. We need the south east to be focusing on what it is achieving. Mr. Kelly has been able to do this with DIT, Blanchardstown and Tallaght, three different institutions. He has been doing very good work with them and I want him to do the same work in the south east.

I did have a meeting with both the chairman and the president of Waterford Institute of Technology and Carlow Institute of Technology on the same day. I had previously met with the Waterford president but not with Dr. Ormonde, as it was the deputy chairman who was there at that time. I do not know whether my conversation with him influenced his decision but I did have a conversation and that is in the public arena. I met with the president and chairman of the boards of Waterford and Carlow ITs. My understanding is that he felt that he had brought the process to a certain point and he had put in a great deal of work over the years and it was time for somebody else to lead in that regard.

I am very committed to this project. I want Mr. Kelly to deliver a viable plan to me and I want to see people in the region getting what Senator Cullinane has said, is the prize. It is for the people of the region, not either of the two institutions, to have a university. The people have campaigned for a long period for it and they deserve it.

Acting Chairman (Senator Paschal Mooney)

Is the Minister taking the next matter?

Deputy Jan O'Sullivan

No. The Minister of State at the Department of Health is taking it

Acting Chairman (Senator Paschal Mooney)

Cuirim fáilte roimh an Aire Stait

Hospital Closure

Senator Cáit Keane

I wish to raise the proposed closure of Crooksling hospital in Brittas. This is a high dependency unit that cares for the elderly from the surround areas. The majority of residents need a high level of care as some are non-verbal and unable to feed or clothe themselves and require round the clock care. The staff provide very good care.

I have visited this unit on occasions and experienced the homely atmosphere and could see the happiness oozing out of the residents. The way the staff treat the patients and the services they provide to then is second to none. This unit has reached the standards set by HIQA.

It is paramount that this unit is supported by the Department of Health, the HSE to ensure this older building reaches the standard it would like to reach. I would say that the building could do with a major upgrade. The hospital is located in a beautiful sylvan setting in the woods of Brittas on a large site and the residents can look out on the animals. This is an ideal location for the nursing home, which has been there for years. I hope the HSE will be able to invest in it from its capital plan. I would like the Minister to comment on that.

There is sufficient acreage to extend the nursing home and make it much larger. It would serve a much wider catchment area. I ask the Minister of State to comment on that as well. It caters for the most vulnerable people in our society. It caters for people who have done the State a huge service by working for many years and now they find that they need care. It is up to us to ensure that the older people in my community are looked after and that the staff are facilitated by having modern facilities. This home provides good care but I would very much like to see an injection of capital so that it is upgraded and expanded.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Kathleen Lynch)

I thank Senator Keane for raising this issue. The overarching policy of the Government is to support older people to live in dignity and independence in their own homes and communities for as long as possible and to support access to quality long-term residential care where this is appropriate.

When it becomes necessary for an older person to move to a nursing home, their safety and well-being is paramount. We have to ensure the highest standards of care are provided to all residents in a safe and secure environment, and that we meet, in the best possible way, the needs of those who require our services. The HSE is responsible for the delivery of health and personal social services, including those at St Brigid's Hospital, Crooksling. As the Senator is aware, St. Brigid's provides residential services for 66 people and day care services to about 15 people from Tallaght, Clondalkin, Blessington, Saggart and Rathcoole. These services will continue into the foreseeable future. Notwithstanding better economic news recently, resource availability remains tight for the HSE across all its services. In the case of community nursing units, there are challenges regarding staffing, funding and the age and structure of the unit, as the Senator has pointed out, but the Department and the HSE are working on an ongoing basis to address these issues. I assure the Senator that no decision has been taken to close St. Brigid's. The hospital registered with HIQA in June 2012 for a period of three years and the HSE has confirmed to me it will apply to re-register the hospital with HIQA. Residents and their families can be assured that management and staff will continue to work to provide the highest possible standards at St. Brigid's.

I take the point made by Senator Keane that we have an ageing infrastructure which requires significant investment. That is something we are working on, even as we speak.

Senator Cáit Keane

It is an ideal location for a nursing home, but it could do with an upgrade. Will the Minister of State return when she is in a position to provide an injection of capital funding for that nursing home? As I have said, the services are second to none. Community care and the outreach programme are very important, but this home also takes people that other nursing homes decline to take because of their high dependency, and the staff are well able to care for their needs round the clock. This is an ideal location for a further capital injection to ensure it is enhanced and expanded. I would appreciate it if the Minister of State could come back to me in the not too distant future.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I will.

Care of the Elderly Provision

Senator John Whelan

I welcome the Minister of State at the Department of Health, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, to the House because I know she shares an interest in, a concern and a genuine regard for the issues we are discussing, namely, elderly care and the respect we must always show for our senior citizens.

Nothing defines us more as a society than how we care for young children and senior citizens in the autumn of their years. My colleague, Senator Cáit Keane, has raised this issue in respect of her area. We in County Laois have three community nursing homes, one in Shaen, Portlaoise, one in Abbeyleix, and St. Vincent's community nursing home in Mountmellick. I wish to address the situation in Mountmellick.

I had the opportunity and privilege of attending the annual general meeting of the friends and supporters of St. Vincent's community hospital. These are all decent local people who reflect the high standing and regard and respect in the community, not just in Mountmellick but in the greater Laois area, for St. Vincent's, Mountmellick. Its reputation goes before it as a hospital that provides genuine, tender loving care, regard and respect for senior citizens and a place where their families can rest assured they are being cared for properly and professionally. I accept there is constant pressure on resources and that the Minister of State is fighting her corner in this area. As has been indicated, the buildings in which our community nursing homes are located are very often historic and ageing buildings. That is no reason for failing to invest in them, uphold them and commit to them. We also have, as the Minister of State knows, an ageing demographic. While I clearly accept that the private nursing home sector has a role to play, it cannot do so without the State taking its responsibility by providing public community nursing home care for many of our senior citizens in the autumn of their years. There is concern that hospitals can come under pressure from these infamous HIQA standards. I am all for high and proper standards, but I am not always sure that the textbook and the theory matches the test of reality on the ground, such as the idea that every single person should be in a single room on his or her own. That is an Americanisation of elderly care, where everyone has his or her own television and a magazine. That is rather a lonely space to be. We have to work with different models of care, where people can socialise and fraternise with their companions, friends and visitors. I am not altogether sure that the HIQA standards are the bible we should adhere to at all times.

Will the Minister of State confirm to me that the HSE and the Department of Health are fully committed to the future of St. Vincent's Community Nursing Unit in Mountmellick in particular because I am told it requires in the region of €13 million in investment over a period of years? I accept it has to be done on a phased basis. It cannot all be done overnight but people will rest assured and be happy if they know that commitment exists and that it can be brought up over a period of years to match and meet any standard that is required.

It would be remiss of me, as we have discussed it many times, not to mention Shaen hospital in Portlaoise where there has been some movement this week in terms of a ward closure and redeployment of staff. A long-term answer is still eagerly awaited three years on by the people in Abbeyleix in respect of their community nursing home. My wish is that it would be possible for the Minister of State to give us clarity on that, too. I thank the Minister of State.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

I am not certain that I can give the Senator the answers to his two later questions but I will get the information for him. I am very conscious of his concerns as he has made them very clear to me over a long number of years. I think it has been his persistence that has ensured that negative decisions have not been made in relation to those areas. I will inquire further.

It is important that HIQA is centrally involved in terms of the care of the elderly and vulnerable adults of all descriptions and now in terms of facilities for children with disabilities. It is about choices, even when one is at an advanced stage, whether that choice for a single private room or that one would share a room. In the event of a couple in a long-standing relationship, they should be accommodated as well. I think that is the type of future we should be seeking to present for ourselves more than anyone else.

As Senator Whelan is aware, Government policy is to support older people to live in dignity and independence in their own homes and communities for as long as possible. Where this is not feasible, the health service supports access to appropriate quality long-term residential care, including the provision of financial assistance under the nursing homes support scheme. In 2014, with a budget of almost €939 million, financial support will be provided to more than 22,000 people in nursing homes. I think that number has increased slightly in the past month or two. It is nearer 23,000 now. Providing public residential care for older persons forms a significant and crucial part of the services provided and our overall objective is to protect the viability of as many units as possible, within the funding and staffing resources available. This is to provide choice. The Health Service Executive is responsible for the delivery of health and personal social services, including those at facilities such as St. Vincent's hospital, which is located on the outskirts of Mountmellick town. St. Vincent's was registered by HIQA in April 2012 for a period of three years. The registration renewal process is under way. The current capacity is 100 beds, 89 of which are occupied at present. The numbers in community nursing units always fluctuate.

As the Senator will be aware, all developments must be addressed in light of the resources available and everyone accepts that fact in the current circumstances. Given that demand for capital investment for the community nursing unit programme far exceeds the funding available, investment must be allocated as objectively as possible based on the HSE's assessment of priorities. The same principle applies in the context of the previous Adjournment matter. Currently the funding for the community nursing unit programme focuses on the upgrade and refurbishment of existing facilities to achieve HIQA compliance. There have been ongoing capital works within the hospital to enhance the quality of the service. Earlier this year the HSE allocated €400,000 to address HIQA-compliance works at St Vincent's and some minor capital works are due to commence shortly on the infrastructure. This confirms, more than anything else, that there is a future for this unit.

Work is under way on the next multi-annual capital plan for the period 2015 to 2019. Needs and priorities across the community nursing unit programme will be considered again in this context. However, funding for new projects will unfortunately be limited and projects will be selected based on clear and objective prioritisation. I am sure that Senator Whelan would have it no other way. The Department is continuing to work with the HSE in addressing the ongoing need to meet service and safety standards. Every effort will be made within available resources to ensure that the highest standards of care will continue to be provided to all residents in a safe and secure environment and that we meet the needs of those who need our services in the best way possible.

Senator John Whelan

I thank the Minister of State for her comprehensive reply. I am heartened to hear that a substantial and significant fund of €400,000 has been allocated for ongoing works at St. Vincent's Community Hospital. By any prioritisation standards or reasonable criteria, St. Vincent's in Mountmellick would be top of the list because it is at the heart of elderly care in the midlands. I am sure with the Minister of State's commitment and the support of this House, the hospital will be included in the next round of capital funding to ensure that the necessary investment takes place to upgrade the facilities and ensure that St. Vincent's has a bright and long future in caring for our senior citizens. I am grateful to the Minister of State for her response.

Deputy Kathleen Lynch

Looking at community nursing units in the round and taking into account recent developments with the fair deal scheme as well as our ageing population, we can ill-afford to lose any bed. It is in that context that we must move forward. Clearly, there will be areas where safe environmental standards cannot be maintained, perhaps due to structural issues or a lack of resources such as staffing and expertise and that cannot be allowed to continue. In the round, however, as far as I am concerned, we can ill-afford to lose any bed in the context of our ageing population.

The Seanad adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 6 November 2014.